The unfortunate trap of "Well BPDs love to cling to Narcissists!" (Autism)

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Anyone here autistic AF?

Due to growing up in an incredibly invalidating home life (save that rant for another time), I ended up trying to "save people" as a young adult - all of which led to one of my "projects" telling me she had catastrophic drug-induced liver failure and had been removed from the transplant list due to her longstanding alcoholism and begging me to marry her...and yup, we married. I figured it was a "good deed", and why not - she was diagnosed BPD but in my youth I felt sure that was "just a label" and ultimately enough willpower and self-control could solve it. (Spoiler: Nope).

But one of the traps that seemed to ensnare people was that the "pop culture understanding" of BPD says "Oh, the only people who get into relationships with them are narcissists because they love the adulation when splitting cuts in their favour", but that seems lazy and overly speculative - lots of quotes in medical literature, not much peer-reviewed research. But then it's used for example in divorce and family court to say "Well we all KNOW what it means if someone married a BPD", when frankly...one of the most infuriating things to autists is when people confuse two conditions that are clinical opposites.

-Narcissists are deeply insecure, and fixated on people's perception of them - they act aloof and superior to avoid/hide a crippling self-esteem issue. They probably do like BPDs "positive splitting" more than most.

-Autistic (and/or Aspies) people are clinically unable to care what others think about them, their reputation is functionally irrelevant. They probably end up with BPDs more often than most simply because they don't run away after hearing "I think you're having an affair with your sister, I saw a baby in the park that looked like you, you're just like my Dad, I gave up on my one-week career as a stripper and now I'm thinking maybe a nun, you're like literally worse than Hitler because you are the most evil sociopath narcissist psychopath gaslighting hypochondriac agoraphobic lazy workaholic ever!!!"...whereas most people run away when the "bad split" happens - but autists are just like "well, there's zero truth to that, so why would I be bothered?".

Yet somehow I still run into this constant age-old bias that's crept up into the literature, the idea that BPDs and Narcissists end up together and nobody else can stand them, and if you know someone with BPD then their significant other must be a narcissist. My ex claiming I was a narcissist actually led to a forensic psychiatric examination of me that not only dismissed narcissism, but very politely said "he has the dead opposite of narcissism, this cracka be autistic AF and don't give a damn what she or anyone else thinks - she's simply a goodwill project he's worked on helping and allowing in his life in ways that seem perplexing to outsiders" (I'm paraphrasing)

It seems like a topic I haven't seen addressed on this forum much before, and the "Search" function is broken - so I'll just ask...anyone else noticed this?

[PearlsBefore]

Anyone here autistic AF?

Due to growing up in an incredibly invalidating home life (save that rant for another time), I ended up trying to "save people" as a young adult - all of which led to one of my "projects" telling me she had catastrophic drug-induced liver failure and had been removed from the transplant list due to her longstanding alcoholism and begging me to marry her...and yup, we married. I figured it was a "good deed", and why not - she was diagnosed BPD but in my youth I felt sure that was "just a label" and ultimately enough willpower and self-control could solve it. (Spoiler: Nope).

But one of the traps that seemed to ensnare people was that the "pop culture understanding" of BPD says "Oh, the only people who get into relationships with them are narcissists because they love the adulation when splitting cuts in their favour", but that seems lazy and overly speculative - lots of quotes in medical literature, not much peer-reviewed research. But then it's used for example in divorce and family court to say "Well we all KNOW what it means if someone married a BPD", when frankly...one of the most infuriating things to autists is when people confuse two conditions that are clinical opposites.

-Narcissists are deeply insecure, and fixated on people's perception of them - they act aloof and superior to avoid/hide a crippling self-esteem issue. They probably do like BPDs "positive splitting" more than most.

-Autistic (and/or Aspies) people are clinically unable to care what others think about them, their reputation is functionally irrelevant. They probably end up with BPDs more often than most simply because they don't run away after hearing "I think you're having an affair with your sister, I saw a baby in the park that looked like you, you're just like my Dad, I gave up on my one-week career as a stripper and now I'm thinking maybe a nun, you're like literally worse than Hitler because you are the most evil sociopath narcissist psychopath gaslighting hypochondriac agoraphobic lazy workaholic ever!!!"...whereas most people run away when the "bad split" happens - but autists are just like "well, there's zero truth to that, so why would I be bothered?".

Yet somehow I still run into this constant age-old bias that's crept up into the literature, the idea that BPDs and Narcissists end up together and nobody else can stand them, and if you know someone with BPD then their significant other must be a narcissist. My ex claiming I was a narcissist actually led to a forensic psychiatric examination of me that not only dismissed narcissism, but very politely said "he has the dead opposite of narcissism, this cracka be autistic AF and don't give a damn what she or anyone else thinks - she's simply a goodwill project he's worked on helping and allowing in his life in ways that seem perplexing to outsiders" (I'm paraphrasing)

It seems like a topic I haven't seen addressed on this forum much before, and the "Search" function is broken - so I'll just ask...anyone else noticed this?

[Notwendy]

What I have read is that a pairing between a pwBPD and one with NPD tends to be dramatic, and less stable and that the more long lasting pairing is with a pwBPD and a partner with enabling/co-dependent traits. That doesn't mean it isn't a difficult relationship but that it tends to last longer.

I think autism isn't addressed as much due to the more recent awareness of high functioning - Level 1 autism. Someone who is more severely on the spectrum, I think would be less likely to pair up with someone due to the social skill demands. However people with higher functioning can maintain relationships, sometimes it takes some effort. I also think they are less likely to be identified due to being able to "mask" or compensate in a social setting.

I can't be certain about any posters but I think I have seen examples of all three on the board- due to the situations they are concerned about. Most don't use a specific label. I think the most common situation is the partner who has been walking on eggshells and is looking for another solution. Many do not believe that the term "co-dependent" fits them but they do say they have been walking on eggshells and compensating for their BPD partner.

Some posters have idenfied as being on the spectrum. I think more information will come out about this pairing. I have wondered if perhaps my father had autistic traits. He eventually also was enabling but I wonder if that was an adaptation to the relationship with my BPD mother. I didn't ever consider he might be somewhat on the spectrum, before the information of high functioning ASD was available. He would not have been indenfied in this time.

He had a "brainy" edge to him and while I saw him as being sociable, but thinking about it, it was mostly with his like minded peers. He didn't share other interests like sports, or other hobbies one thinks of as "with the guys". However, I also think his free time for that was limited as my BPD mother's emotional needs were high and he also took on most of the parenting role at home.

Personally, I think people on the ASD spectrum have unique skills and these may be their focus. Not everyone needs to be very social, and so if that is not their focus, they may not pick up on some red flags, as you described?


BPD mother's skill set was her social savvy and charm, something someone on the spectrum may not be so skilled at. She could be manipulative. I think someone on the spectrum might not pick up on some of these subtle signs when first meeting her. But also not many people did at first, whether or not on the spectrum. I don't believe he had any idea of her issues when they got married, but others on this board didn't see issues at the beginning either.

[Rowdy]

Interesting topic. About a year or so before my wife and I split up, I’d done several online questionnaires that came back saying  I was highly likely on the asd spectrum. When we split up I went to the doctors to investigate this further, and was given two questionnaires to fill out, one for autism and one for adhd.
After looking at the results my doctor said he was putting me forward for an official diagnosis. That was 2 1/2 years ago and I still haven’t heard anything from them.

If I am, I have traits and I’m not particularly affected by it. My brother refuses to believe that I even have it, although my ex, my kids and my in laws believe I probably do.

The part of your post that I find worrying however, is where you mention autistic people don’t care what anyone thinks of them. I do sometimes wonder how I am perceived, or if I have upset someone if I haven’t heard from them in a while, which now leads me to question if I am narcissistic instead. I don’t have a grandiose sense of self nor act superior to anyone, although I can at times feel a little insecure. I am not particularly sociable and am an introvert.

[CC43]

I don't know if there's a prototype that disproportionately attracts a partner with BPD, or one that is especially drawn to someone with BPD.  My sense is that some people might like the intensity and initial drama of the relationship--the process of falling deeply in love, feeling so close and special.  But if you're talking about a female pwBPD, what I've noticed is that if she's hot or sexy, many suitors will look past some red flags, precisely because she's hot and sexy.  I saw quite a bit of that in my college days.  Looking back, I'm wondering if some of those sexy "damsels in distress" had some BPD traits.

[Pook075]

I was married to a BPD spouse for 23 years, and I often wondered how I didn't realize she was mentally ill until the very end...or how we even made it that far to begin with.

What dawned on me though was that we split up 3 times the first few years, I had been punched and berated countless times, and my wife focused all of her energy on her family instead of ours.  It was a terrible marriage, yet I couldn't see it.

Maybe around year 8 or 9, I decided that we always had the same arguments (cleaning the house, grocery shopping, saving money, etc...typical stuff).  So one day I just said to myself, "I'm not going to argue anymore and I'm not going to say anything about the stuff that bothers me."  If the house was a wreck, I'd clean it myself or let it be dirty.  I did all the shopping, all the bills, all the appointments and schedules...I just did it all and never again asked for help with anything.  I also stopped complaining about my wife never being there as well.

By doing these things, the arguments almost completely stopped because there was nothing left to argue about.  We lived basically like we were single, did some things as a family, and we just sort of existed for the next 15 years.  And honestly, this was more terrible than getting screamed at and slapped.  At least back then there were good times and bad times.  I just felt alone though and it was depressing to be married but living like I'm single (not in the dating sense...just in the general lifestyle since I did so much alone).

If I hadn't made that change in year 8, there's no possible way we made it 23 years.  And I still don't completely know why I gave up my values and morals to let her just run free.  I'm not autistic, but at the same time there has to be something different about me since I just lost the will to keep fighting back.  I just hated everything about arguing and I still shy away from conflict today.