Progressing to the "detaching" board.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

And yes, using the word "progressing" was intentional.

A lot of developments lately. 

First, my goal has been to be kind and consistent with BPDw and let her live her life however she wants.  Of course, that has left me "painted black" at times and resulted in me spending a (very pleasant) night at a hotel so I could physically disengage in whatever was affecting her (more on that later).

W had been spending considerable time out of the house with the new GF lately.  That has changed the past few days.  More on that later. 

W has also had a "right now" urgency to finding her own place.  I stayed out of that drama.  She found a new place and signed a lease yesterday.  I'm quietly celebrating, not just for me being one step away from avoiding the chaos, but for the kids, and for her having her own life.  I have no expectations here, but I see myself biting my tongue until she actually spends time in her new place.  Most people figure out how they are going to pay for a place first.  BPDw does the opposite (as she does with everything) - runs her life based upon panic and deals with the means later.

To get the new place, I had to borrow money from my dad for a deposit.  Enabling?  Not sure, but there was no other way she would be able to leave otherwise, and it was to the point where I could not tolerate much more of her cold unkind attitude.  For my dad, he was happy to lend money knowing I and his grandkids would be better off.  He pretty much implied he had been waiting for years for me to ask him.  A few thousand for him is nothing compared to being able to see his grandkids more in the last years of his life. 

But once she is out, I see it as "over" in the sense I see no reason we would live together again.  That bridge is crossed.  My prediction is that I will be slowly doing more and more of the parenting responsibilities as she struggles to function on a basic level, and that is fine with me.   

Regarding the GF - today is GF's birthday.  W is now telling me GF does not want to see her and hasn't for the past few days.  I don't know the details as to why, but I don't need to know because I have already lived it.  99.9999% likely BPD entered the R/S and GF has distanced herself.  The only thing W has told me is that GF doesn't want to be around her unless they have positive experiences.  I'm guessing W was being overly negative and GF said - "I don't need this", and W has since been "love bombing" and that has made the situation worse.  I'm sure we have all experienced this.  W asked me this morning "maybe I should send her a meal for her birthday."   Uh oh.  I reminded her that unless she specifically asked for that, a meal is something you send a sick person or someone whose kitchen is being remodeled.  I suggested she send a simple cupcake instead that says "happy birthday" and nothing more.  I see this getting real ugly....

[maxsterling]

And yes, using the word "progressing" was intentional.

A lot of developments lately. 

First, my goal has been to be kind and consistent with BPDw and let her live her life however she wants.  Of course, that has left me "painted black" at times and resulted in me spending a (very pleasant) night at a hotel so I could physically disengage in whatever was affecting her (more on that later).

W had been spending considerable time out of the house with the new GF lately.  That has changed the past few days.  More on that later. 

W has also had a "right now" urgency to finding her own place.  I stayed out of that drama.  She found a new place and signed a lease yesterday.  I'm quietly celebrating, not just for me being one step away from avoiding the chaos, but for the kids, and for her having her own life.  I have no expectations here, but I see myself biting my tongue until she actually spends time in her new place.  Most people figure out how they are going to pay for a place first.  BPDw does the opposite (as she does with everything) - runs her life based upon panic and deals with the means later.

To get the new place, I had to borrow money from my dad for a deposit.  Enabling?  Not sure, but there was no other way she would be able to leave otherwise, and it was to the point where I could not tolerate much more of her cold unkind attitude.  For my dad, he was happy to lend money knowing I and his grandkids would be better off.  He pretty much implied he had been waiting for years for me to ask him.  A few thousand for him is nothing compared to being able to see his grandkids more in the last years of his life. 

But once she is out, I see it as "over" in the sense I see no reason we would live together again.  That bridge is crossed.  My prediction is that I will be slowly doing more and more of the parenting responsibilities as she struggles to function on a basic level, and that is fine with me.   

Regarding the GF - today is GF's birthday.  W is now telling me GF does not want to see her and hasn't for the past few days.  I don't know the details as to why, but I don't need to know because I have already lived it.  99.9999% likely BPD entered the R/S and GF has distanced herself.  The only thing W has told me is that GF doesn't want to be around her unless they have positive experiences.  I'm guessing W was being overly negative and GF said - "I don't need this", and W has since been "love bombing" and that has made the situation worse.  I'm sure we have all experienced this.  W asked me this morning "maybe I should send her a meal for her birthday."   Uh oh.  I reminded her that unless she specifically asked for that, a meal is something you send a sick person or someone whose kitchen is being remodeled.  I suggested she send a simple cupcake instead that says "happy birthday" and nothing more.  I see this getting real ugly....

[PeteWitsend]

...

To get the new place, I had to borrow money from my dad for a deposit.  Enabling?  Not sure, but there was no other way she would be able to leave otherwise, and it was to the point where I could not tolerate much more of her cold unkind attitude.  For my dad, he was happy to lend money knowing I and his grandkids would be better off.  He pretty much implied he had been waiting for years for me to ask him.  A few thousand for him is nothing compared to being able to see his grandkids more in the last years of his life. 

Right, but that's just the deposit.  Who is going to pay rent every month, and expenses for everything else she decides she needs?  You must know by now that with a pwBPD, the need to fill the void is constant, and if someone isn't there "entertaining" her, she's going to come back to you and start demanding more.  New couch.  Better furniture for the new place.  Someone to paint the walls.  TV doesn't work.  etc. etc.

...  The only thing W has told me is that GF doesn't want to be around her unless they have positive experiences.  I'm guessing W was being overly negative and GF said - "I don't need this", and W has since been "love bombing" and that has made the situation worse.  ...

I don't think there's any reason to consider what your W told you here.  Unless you're able to observe it for yourself, nothing she says is trustworthy.  She'll say whatever she wants about the relationship to get what she wants from you.

In all likelihood, their relationship is (or was...) just a fun novelty for the GF, and was only going to last as long as W was not burdening the GF with her needs, i.e. with all the BPD emotional neediness, or her actual cost of living.  Seems like it's already more or less over.  The GF knows her boundaries and will keep them.  You don't. 

I see this getting real ugly....

Yeah, but you're not just an impartial observer here.  The ugliness is going to be your problem real soon.  In addition to the regular BPD stuff she was burdening you and your kids with, now she has an apartment lease someone is going to have to pay.

[Under The Bridge]

But once she is out, I see it as "over" in the sense I see no reason we would live together again.  That bridge is crossed.  My prediction is that I will be slowly doing more and more of the parenting responsibilities as she struggles to function on a basic level, and that is fine with me.

100% agree with PeteWitsend. If you aren't careful and stick to very firm boundaries then little is going to change - the only difference is that she would be living with someone else. She will still heavily involve you in her chaotic life, especially if her G/F has been temporarily painted black.. what if she then wanted to come back to live with you? Would you be able to stand firm and say 'No'?

[maxsterling]

Would you be able to stand firm and say 'No'?

Absolutely.

#1 goal is to actually get her out of the house and staying elsewhere.  After that, I can catch my breath and make myself unavailable.  That's why I said "bite my tongue".  I don't want to do anything to jeopardize "step 1".

[Notwendy]

I see a lot of potential issues here. I can't predict the future but I have seen this kind of dynamic over many years, with my parents, and it has similarities to yours.

I understand where your Dad is coming from and hope, if it were possible, that you could also see that your father is aware of your wife's disorder and cares about you. I can see why he paid for this. But the fact that it is his money, not yours or your wife's is a factor in that- neither of you are taking the financial risk here. There's no monetary investment for either of you. So it's even more likely that this could be reversed, without any financial consequences to either of you. When people invest their own money in something, they are more likely to value it and stick with it. This is general human nature.

For your father, this is a gamble he was willing to take, hoping it might work.

To your wife, this is just one more pie in the sky want that she believes in the moment that she has to have and it was made possible for her without her having to consider the finances or logistics. So now, as soon as she has it, the idealized wish begins to unravel. For my BPD mother, this was the repetitive pattern. It was the vacation, the car, the move, the whatever she set her sights on as the solution to her emotional distress- and Dad made it happen for her. I wish it had worked.

If this event is going to be the actual split, you will need to be the one to take action. This means getting a lawyer and beginning the process. I don't think this situation is going to be sustainable for your wife. From what you have described, she has very little life management skills.

This will also take you being able to let her hit bottom, real bottom. Like a breakdown and being hospitalized, or not making rent and being evicted. I think you are probably right that your wife's best chance of survival is to find someone else, but this will be a bigger challenge for her now, at her age, than in her younger years. This is the dating pool- there's more single people who are younger. However, now may be her best chance she has, if this were going to happen. Also in the job market- the older one is, the larger the gap in work, makes finding one harder.

Although I see that enabling someone can stunt their own emotional growth and skills, and wondered how much this affected my BPD mother's ability to manage on her own, once I did see how she functioned without my father, I believe she was incapable of functioning on her own - ever, even with regular daily tasks. You know this about your wife, she won't even eat a regular meal without you fixing it, and she stays in bed most of the day. My mother did too.

I remember when I was about 10, BPD mom ran off somewhere for a couple days, maybe a week or more? I don't know. I was too young to know details. But she came back and my parents acted as if nothing happened. There were frequent divorce threats, but she didn't follow through with them. She couldn't manage if she had done that.

For this separation to actually be one, it will be up to you how much you can tolerate your wife hitting bottom.  She may threaten or attempt the unthinkable. Can you manage letting her be hospitalized? Getting social services involved? Unless you are legally divorced, you will still be financially responsible for her. Are you willing to go through with divorce and let your wife deal with the consequences of her own actions?

I know this sounds dismal, but your wife's management skills are low at the moment. It's not possible to predict what she's capable of so these are possible outcomes to consider.

[Notwendy]

But you can let whatever happens happen- and it may actually have the better outcome if your wife's issues truly come to light, or she finds someone else. You will need to be the one to hold the boundary on your decision, because there's a chance she may come back to you if she doesn't have other available options, but standing firm may open up other options for her if you do.

[CC43]

Hi Max,

I tend to agree with the other posters.  In my opinion, it's unfortunate your wife found a new living situation by using someone else's money.  Thus she has no "skin in the game," and in all likelihood will expect (demand!) continued financial support in the future.

On these boards, I've cautioned that when a pwBPD's life looks really dysfunctional (e.g. sleeping all day, not helping out, having regular meltdowns, blaming others full-time, barely taking care of personal hygiene/eating, abusing substances, volatile relationships, incidents involving police/hospitals, etc.), then to expect that a new living situation will result in a behavioral 180 is delusional.  It's basically setting her up to fail, at a cost to YOU.  My general advice is, not to make any big "investment" in a pwBPD when they are completely dysfunctional, no matter what they promise, unless you're prepared to flush some money down the toilet.  Sure, she'll claim that a new "living situation" represents a "fresh start," a chance to get her "back on her feet" and away from her "toxic" home environment.  Unfortunately, her words are just words, not backed by realistic plans or actions.  She'll ruminate obsessively and probably idealize a new living situation as the solution to her problems.  But as you know, the problem isn't the home, the past, you or anyone else.  The problem is her disordered thinking, lack of emotional control, perpetual negativity and victim attitude.  That will remain exactly the same, no matter where she goes, unless she gets some therapy and/or shows some functional progress first.

When can a pwBPD start to change?  When SHE makes the investment and takes the initiative herself, beyond just signing a lease and spending other people's money.  She could save up for a material portion of first and last month's rent, which requires foresight, determination and patience (traits untreated pwBPD tend to lack).  She could show some success at getting and keeping a job, even if it is very part-time at first.  She should demonstrate an ability to handle some normal(ish) daily habits and routines, before expecting to be able to perform them all by herself, with nobody around to over-function for her.  She should show some success at handling a budget, no matter how small she starts off.  Most of all, as an adult, SHE should be the one to make things happen.

You think, you're helping your wife by setting her up in a safe place.  Maybe that helps you in the short term.  But I think that if I were in your situation, I wouldn't have paid the entirety of deposit.  Maybe you're lucky and she'll figure something out, or find someone else to pay her expenses, at least for a while.  But I think you need to prepare yourself for her to be evicted when she doesn't make rent.  Would you let her back in with you?  Would you change the locks?  Is she on your lease, deed or mortgage?  Would she have racked up credit card debt that you'd be responsible for?  I just wouldn't want to see you get in more financial trouble, on top of the emotional quagmire you're in.

Just my two cents.  All the best to you.