BPD / Postnatal Depression ?

[AlCh]

Background:

My Wife gave birth to our second child at the start of spring last year. At the beginning of last year I came home from work and she flipped out and went absolutely crazy at me because I sat down for 5 minutes. She was physically violent with me and drew blood on my face. SHE called the cops and tried to accuse ME of domestic abuse! The cops arrived and asked me if I wanted to press charges on her - which of course I said no as she was pregnant and I did not want to cause her any stress. So they took no further action.

I went to see my doctor and they advised me to just keep a low profile until after the pregnancy. I asked her to go and speak to her doctor as I was worried her strange behavior was linked to the pregnancy and I wanted her and baby to be safe. Anyway she got irate when I told her I'd been to see my doctor and she could do the same.

Anyway her behavior didn't get any more normal. One night shortly after this event she went outside pacing up and down around midnight in front of the house in the freezing cold rain. I enlisted the help of her parents who seemed supportive and understanding and also put it down to her hormones linked to the pregnancy. Her mum told me my wife just didn't enjoy being pregnant and that things would improve after she gave birth. Her dad said pretty much the same - it was her pregnancy hormones and laughed the thing off. Her parents live far away so it is difficult for them to help.

So we would have arguments over nothing in particular instigated by her. I would say there were two or three of these. I would try and get out of her way when she flared up and move to a different room in the house. She could not leave me alone and would pursue me and even broke the lock off a door to get to me.

One argument that springs to mind is that we were in the kitchen and she starts hitting me, I hold her arms to stop her and she runs over to the other side of the kitchen and says look what you've done to my arms - that's domestic abuse! I was shocked. SHE attacked ME. There were no marks on her arms that I could see. Anyway I put it down to lack of sleep with the new baby and gave her the benefit of the doubt.

Advance to the summer. My wife and I have an argument about the way she disciplined our eldest daughter. I was not happy with her actions and we ended up shouting at each other and arguing. AGAIN she calls the Cops! The cops arrive, talk to us both and take no further action saying its just an argument. I asked her why she kept on calling the cops like this and her response that she felt far away from her family and did not know who else to call.

So my wife returns back to work after only six months maternity leave as there is a financial incentive for her doing so (although we were doing fine financially). I fully supported her decision to do this as she seemed happier when she was at work. The children had to stay in childcare - but I didn't mind if it meant we had a happy family.

Advance to the start of autumn. My wife gets up one morning in a horrendous mood. Starts shouting at me, blaming me for everything. I take our eldest daughter out of the house to try and give my wife a bit of a break. Anyway we come back a few hours later and she is still VERY VERY angry at nothing in particular. I worry that she is going a bit crazy and move some of my things into my car. She chases me around the house and starts attacking me when I try to get out of the door. She tried to headbutt and bite me.

Anyway I manage to get out of the house - drive around for a couple of hours and decide to come back to the house. I arrive to find her with one of her girl friends. Her friend eventually goes, and my wife told me that her friend told her to divorce me. She got bruises on her arms where I held her off when she tried to headbutt and bite me as I was leaving the house and must have blamed these on me - her friend was not there when she was acting crazy trying to headbutt and bite me. AGAIN my wife tells me that she has called the cops! They don't arrive until next morning and take statements from us both but take no further action. I later learned that my wife made a false allegation of domestic violence against me but admitted it was a lie to the cops.

Everything seems to calm down after that. We both went to marriage counseling and all seemed fine. Fast-forward to one month later. I arrive home after work, after taking our eldest child to school in the morning (which I did every morning), EVERYTHING was gone from our eldest child's room, the nursery had been stripped bare, half the furniture in the house had gone. Fearing what would happen next I immediately got the locks changed on the house. Later that evening I have an email from my wife telling me that she needs space, and that I may have lost her but not the children. She says she doesn't like the person she has become living with me (we have been married for a decade). I later find out that her father has come and moved all the things out of the family home. The same father that admitted that her previous problems were hormonal and linked to the pregnancy.

So she doesn't tell me where she is and stops me seeing the children for several days. She finally meets me and lets me see the children. She tells me she's renting somewhere for six months and says she doesn't love me anymore. She eventually tells me where she lives - and its 10 minutes away in the same town.

We attend mediation a couple of weeks after she left to arrange a schedule for the children to see us both. My wife became VERY angry when the mediator told her that she may not be able to take the children to her parents at Christmas (they live in another country). My wife threatens me that she will take me to court and make allegations of domestic abuse against me so I must be conciliatory and let her have exactly what she wants (I have a recording of this). The mediator told her to wait a couple of weeks. She could not. Next thing I know I have court papers through the door for a hearing where she is going to attempt to force me let her take the children to her parents at Christmas, and severely limit our children's access to me.

During the exchanges of the children, when she comes to the family home she kept on trying to force her way in - causing distress to our oldest child who could not understand why mum could not come into the house (how do you explain to a child that mum cannot come into the house because she is threatening to tell horrible lies about dad?). So I apply for and was granted a restraining order to stop her doing this.

Fast forward to now. I told my wife it was 50/50 custody or nothing. She agreed. Given her strange behavior I think I could have got full custody, but lawyers are expensive, and the children need to see their mother. Even the judge at the custody hearing suggested to her that her current state of mind could be linked to her pregnancy.

The one thing I have noticed is that each time my wife called the cops it was within a few days of us returning from her parents. This seems too much of a coincidence to ignore.

I'm trying to move on with my life. Having read around similar situations this seems to be the only option. She has moved out and broken up the family for what? I did not want this, and do not think this is the best way to bring up children. I only deal with my wife regarding the children now.

I have spoken to a therapist about everything and they say that my wife is putting herself as the victim and must have an aggressor and a rescuer. She casts me as the aggressor so that she can be rescued by a white knight. This seems to fit with BPD - I'm no expert in this field so I can't say for sure. Could the pregnancy have shifted her along the BPD spectrum for example?

I would have done and did do anything for my wife. I would never ever be violent to her. I have shouted back at her when she has shouted at me during her instigated arguments and I wish I had not. I was very caring and was always there for her. It has been painful beyond description to have my children taken from me by her in this way. My wife will no let our youngest stay overnight until SHE says she has finished breast feeding. I am really missing seeing my youngest every night and morning. I really miss my beautiful family.

I cannot understand why my wife has acted like this. Her sister was treated for post-natal psychosis and I worried that there could be a connection. Any time I bought this up or suggested that my wife may need help she accused me of saying she is mad. The children are definitely mine (I thought the contrary would be an explanation but it is not the case).

I just don't know what to do. She is my wife but she has acted appallingly. She wants us to be "friends" but I cannot see how after all she has done. She wants to have her cake and eat it. She says she wants to start dating again. I've given her the benefit of the doubt so many times as I thought it was linked to the pregnancy - but it now seems to be going on too long for this still to be the case?

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[Healthy88]

So sorry you are going through all of this!

Having had postpartum depression, after each pregnancy, it is my opinion what u r describing is much more severe. Possibly the postpartum phychosis, especially if her sister had it too? Pregnancy and motherhood is exhausting. It can also be overwhelming and stressful depending on one's personality, family support and coping skills. Hormones can change too.

No one can tell you what you should do? Does she want to start dating u again or other people? I think the physical space is a good thing right now, even if you try to work through this with her.

If you want to try to get your family and wife back, I might consider dating again as trust needs to be earned back both ways. I would set a firm boundary that you will only consider trying again, if she will get help because you want her to be as healthy as she can be for herself and the kids.

Women will often do things for their kids that they will not for anyone else. If she truly is having a problem, it most likely will not disappear without help. She has to be open to help and willing to put in the effort. It may also be a great time for you each to do individual T to work on yourselves and for you to have someone to work through all of your feelings with as well.

H88

[AlCh]

Having had postpartum depression, after each pregnancy, it is my opinion what u r describing is much more severe. Possibly the postpartum phychosis, especially if her sister had it too? Pregnancy and motherhood is exhausting. It can also be overwhelming and stressful depending on one's personality, family support and coping skills. Hormones can change too.

Her family live in a different country and my family live far away so we have no family support which makes it even more strange to have done this.

No one can tell you what you should do? Does she want to start dating u again or other people? I think the physical space is a good thing right now, even if you try to work through this with her.

No she wants to start dating other people.  But she won't let our young baby stay overnight with me until she stops breast feeding.  She said she cannot do that until she stops breast feeding.  Its like shes using that to make me feel bad.  I still love her and want her to come back.  It is destroying me not seeing my family everyday and seeing her like this.  Before she left she had this intense anger and was blaming absolutely anything and everything on me.

Women will often do things for their kids that they will not for anyone else. If she truly is having a problem, it most likely will not disappear without help. She has to be open to help and willing to put in the effort. It may also be a great time for you each to do individual T to work on yourselves and for you to have someone to work through all of your feelings with as well.

Yes I've gone through seven sessions of T - I was absolutely devastated to arrive home and find everything gone like that.  The therapist was suggesting BPD I think (although she did not give it a name).  She said that my wife was putting herself in the role of victim and needed to have an aggressor and rescuer.  From what I have read this is about triangulation, splitting me black and having a "White Knight" rescue her?  I have tried to suggest to my wife in a nice way that she also has T but she gets angry and says that I am always trying to say she is mad (which I am not).

[AlCh]

Having had postpartum depression, after each pregnancy, it is my opinion what u r describing is much more severe. Possibly the postpartum phychosis, especially if her sister had it too? Pregnancy and motherhood is exhausting. It can also be overwhelming and stressful depending on one's personality, family support and coping skills. Hormones can change too.

I was really worried about postpartum psychosis after the incident in January last year where she drew blood after clawing at my face.  I tried to raise it with her in the most sympathetic way possible be she always accused me of saying that she was mad.  I still remember the night late in her pregnancy when she was pacing up and down in front of our house in the middle of the night in the pouring rain. She just looked so confused.  I managed to get her to come back in by getting her to speak to a nurse on the telephone.  Then she accused me of not doing the right thing by doing that!  She just looked so confused and agitated - I was so worried for her and our unborn baby.

It's been nearly four months now.  I've tried going NC / LC to see if she will come back of her own accord, but I've seen no steps towards reconciliation.  Although in that time I had to go to court to get 50 / 50 custody.  I still truly love her.  I just cannot see how we are going to move forward from here.  If I take her back (which I want to) she we probably have no respect for me.  Everyone tells me that I should not take her back but my heart tells me otherwise.  At the end of the day I don't care what other people think - she is my wife.  She has just given birth to our second beautiful baby.  I remain convinced all of this is linked to the pregnancy.  Nothing adds up - to go from normal family life, then bang - overnight she moves out. 

[Naughty Nibbler]

Welcome AlCh:   
I'm so sorry about what you are going through.  It has to be a tough situation for you, especially with your children involved.  What is the age of your oldest child?  Sounds like your youngest will have a 1st birthday in a couple of months?

If you haven't already done so, you might want to go to the large green band at the very top of the page, and check out some of the links within the menu ":)iagnosis & Treatment".  Do you think your wife had displayed any of the BPD traits, prior to her pregnancies (perhaps periodically, but not consistently)?

I cannot understand why my wife has acted like this. Her sister was treated for post-natal psychosis and I worried that there could be a connection. Any time I bought this up or suggested that my wife may need help she accused me of saying she is mad. The children are definitely mine (I thought the contrary would be an explanation but it is not the case).

Could the pregnancy have shifted her along the BPD spectrum for example?   

People with some BPD traits, can slip into a BPD label, after stressful events.  Pregnancy certainly has a hormonal influence.  In addition to that, a pregnancy can add stress and then another child to care for adds more stress.  Things can combine and set off BPD behavior.

The one thing I have noticed is that each time my wife called the cops it was within a few days of us returning from her parents. This seems too much of a coincidence to ignore.

I'm thinking that most parents will believe their children. Your wife has likely told her parents the story that you are abusing her.  If she shows them bruises, from you holding her back, that can support her story; even though you were just defending yourself and doing just what was necessary to stop her.  Her parents might be coaching her to call the police, because they believe her.

Fortunately, things have worked in your favor with the police so far and your local police are probably accessing a history for your address, which may have worked in your favor so far.  You probably want to be careful and protect yourself. 

Best to have a safety plan in place, in case your wife gets violent again.  Since you are currently living apart, there might be a different plan, depending on where you are at the time.  The link below contains some helpful information about making a safety plan:

https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/safety_first.pdf

It could, also,  be helpful for you to get a local number for a Domestic Violence hotline for where you live, and keep it in your phone.  It can help to have someone to talk to.  The link below is an International Resource for finding a local resource.  Click on the "Countries In" button and it will lead you to your area:
 
www.hotpeachpages.net/
 

I just don't know what to do. She is my wife but she has acted appallingly. She wants us to be "friends" but I cannot see how after all she has done. She wants to have her cake and eat it. She says she wants to start dating again. I've given her the benefit of the doubt so many times as I thought it was linked to the pregnancy - but it now seems to be going on too long for this still to be the case?

You have your children to think of.  Even if you won't think of her as a friend, going forward, interacting with her in a friendly manner with boundaries will help both you and your children in the long run.

You can't change her or force her to get treatment.  All you can do is manage your own boundaries, the way you interact with her and the way you react to her.  Regardless, of what the future holds, you will still need to interact with your partner in regard to your children.  Learning to set boundaries (with a plan for enforcement), and learning certain communication skills can make things easier for you.  If you look at the margin to the right of this post, you will see a section with "Basic Tools".  Take it a link at a time, and begin learning some strategy. It will take some effort to become confident with them, but you will gain some level of benefit.

She won't let our young baby stay overnight with me until she stops breast feeding.  She said she cannot do that until she stops breast feeding.  Its like she's using that to make me feel bad.

There is a strategy for women to save/store some breast milk, so that an overnight visit with your child could be possible. It wouldn't be something you could force her to do.  If she cooperated, it could be a possible situation.  What is your current situation in regard to visitation with both of the children?  Are you able to visit them for a few hours at your home?

It's good that you are getting some therapy.  If you set a priority to concentrate on taking care of yourself right now and learning some strategies on communicating with your wife (to avoid drama and conflict), it will lead to a better outcome.  If you take care of yourself, you will be better equipped to be a better father to your children.  By accomplishing those two things, you may set the stage for a better relationship with your wife.  Giving her some space and time right now, is probably a good thing.
 

[Healthy88]

AlCh,

NN gave you a lot of great suggestions. Has your wife officially filed for divorce since she moved out? If she is ready to date other people, it sounds like she is ready to move on.  You can always set silent boundaries like you will give this one year from when she moved out and then file yourself. She doesn't need to know the time limit you have set in your head, that would be your boundary. I only know of one other situation when a wife did that to her H, no children involved, in that situation she was done with the marriage and never looked back.

Also, have you contacted her OBGYN to let them know some of your concerns so they can ask her some pointed questions? They can't share her personal information with you, unless she has given them permission to do so. You can certainly alert them to some of her bizarre behaviors and that her sister was diagnosed with post-partum phychosis, out of concern for her and the kids. They may schedule more frequent appointments with her to keep an eye on her.  Of course, if they mentioned you called then that could make matters worse. You could also schedule an appointment and meet with the dr yourself, but your motive for doing so wouldn't be to get her back. It would be because you are truly worried about her safety and that of the kids.

My H & I share the same family dr. There was a time his behavior became more aggressive and argumentative out of the blue and he seemed even more disconnected. I think he had seen them recently so I called to say that his behavior had changed and explained how and asked if they had done anything differently. Well, they didn't get back to me directly and H finally admitted he was taking pain medication. I don't believe they prescribed him anymore though, after I called. I was shocked because if I ever take anything, I always let him know so he is aware. Obviously, the medication was greatly effecting his personality and our r/s. I was just not aware he was taking anything. I don't believe they told him I called either.

I hope you are able to spend time with both children for day visits, at least. I don't know how young your baby is, but it doesn't sound unusual to me that she remains with mom overnight while so young and breast feeding. You should be able to have day visits with her, for now however.

If your wife is truly done with the r/s, then chasing her will not bring her back. NC isn't really an option when you share kids. Trying to keep communication friendly and focused on the kids, is probably your best bet for now. If her violence and trying to enter your home is an ongoing issue, then possibly exchanging them in the parking lot of a public place would allow some protection and a smoother transition.

You have a lot on your plate right now. So sorry you are going through all of this, but I am glad you are in T and working on yourself.

H88

[AlCh]

Welcome AlCh:   
I'm so sorry about what you are going through.  It has to be a tough situation for you, especially with your children involved.  What is the age of your oldest child?  Sounds like your youngest will have a 1st birthday in a couple of months?

Yes oldest child is 6 and youngest will be 1 in a couple of months.

If you haven't already done so, you might want to go to the large green band at the very top of the page, and check out some of the links within the menu ":)iagnosis & Treatment".  Do you think your wife had displayed any of the BPD traits, prior to her pregnancies (perhaps periodically, but not consistently)?

I would say only a couple of the traits.  Now I would say she displays all of them.

I'm thinking that most parents will believe their children. Your wife has likely told her parents the story that you are abusing her.  If she shows them bruises, from you holding her back, that can support her story; even though you were just defending yourself and doing just what was necessary to stop her.  Her parents might be coaching her to call the police, because they believe her.

Her physical attacks on me happened mostly within a few days of returning from her parents.  It was almost as if her parents were the trigger.  She would have had no bruises to show them at this point as she attacked me when we returned.  It is very sad as her parents initially offered support when I first called them.  I can't help but think that this is not going to work out well for her and my children.

Fortunately, things have worked in your favor with the police so far and your local police are probably accessing a history for your address, which may have worked in your favor so far.  You probably want to be careful and protect yourself. 

I'm not religious but now I pray every night that my dear wife will come back and be her old self again.  I don't know how this can happen after what she has done.  I am a kind and gentle man and it really hurts that she can accuse me of such horrible things. It is just like she has had a personality change.

There is a strategy for women to save/store some breast milk, so that an overnight visit with your child could be possible. It wouldn't be something you could force her to do.  If she cooperated, it could be a possible situation.  What is your current situation in regard to visitation with both of the children?  Are you able to visit them for a few hours at your home?

Yes we have spoken about this - she refuses too.  She has said the only thing she has to look forward to is breastfeeding "her baby"... .I have joint custody of both children.  The oldest spends 50% of her time at my house and the youngest will build up to this when she is permitted by her mother to stay overnight.

It's good that you are getting some therapy.  If you set a priority to concentrate on taking care of yourself right now and learning some strategies on communicating with your wife (to avoid drama and conflict), it will lead to a better outcome.  If you take care of yourself, you will be better equipped to be a better father to your children.  By accomplishing those two things, you may set the stage for a better relationship with your wife.  Giving her some space and time right now, is probably a good thing.

Do you think the relationship is recoverable ?  My wife has spoken in absolutes - blaming me for everything and being very angry.  I have had a great deal of time to reflect since she has left.  I realize I could have done more to help in places, but her anger towards me pushed me away.  She criticized everything I did.  Nothing I did was right.  This was to the level of OCD.  For example I could not fill the dish-washer "correctly" - she would empty it and reload it how she wanted.  Same for the washing on the drier.  The fact is I was there for her and I did help.  I took over care of our oldest so she could concentrate on our new baby.  Speaking to other couples this seems to be quite normal.  She accused me of not being there for her emotionally - but again this was not the case.  I would offer her comfort and emotional support and she would push me away then complain that I was not there for her!

[AlCh]

NN gave you a lot of great suggestions. Has your wife officially filed for divorce since she moved out? If she is ready to date other people, it sounds like she is ready to move on. 

No sign yet.

Also, have you contacted her OBGYN to let them know some of your concerns so they can ask her some pointed questions?

Yes I've contacted the relevant professionals and raised my concerns.  I'm kept pretty much in the dark as to whether this is being taken seriously because of medical confidentiality.  If I even mention anything connected to mental health to my wife, she loses it and says that I am being abusive merely by suggesting it.

If your wife is truly done with the r/s, then chasing her will not bring her back.

It just doesn't add up.  I am a kind and loving husband.  We both wanted another child (our eldest has been bought up really well and was happy).  I am devoted to my family and they mean the world to me.  I can't understand why my wife would do this to us all.  We had a stable loving family home with a great future.

[AlCh]

Lots of people tell me that I should divorce her after what she has done.  My heart tells me otherwise.  She was a good wife and a good mother.  It's like she has been taken over by someone else.  She has a lot of girl friends who are divorced and she seems to idealize their lifestyle.  I think divorce when there is no need is selfish, stupid and bad for the children.  If this is a result of changes related to the pregnancy - part of me feels that I owe her a duty to stick around.  If I had gone through something as traumatic on my body I would hope that she would do the same for me.  It is just incredibly difficult to accept because for me she has stolen part of my precious time as a father with our young baby in our family - this I will never get back.  She has been incredibly selfish.  I do not exaggerate when I say that driving to the hospital to pick up my wife and new child each time have been the happiest periods of my life.  I was so proud of my wife.  Now I think I am in the lowest period of my life.  Even after 4 months I do not think it is getting any easier.  I devoted myself to my wife and family - to have all of that taken away overnight is pure hell on earth.  The only solace I can take from the current situation is that if we do re-unite this will make us stronger.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey AlCh: 

Before her pregnancy, I would say she had only a couple of the traits.  Now I would say she displays all of them.

My wife has spoken in absolutes - blaming me for everything and being very angry.  I have had a great deal of time to reflect since she has left.  I realize I could have done more to help in places, but her anger towards me pushed me away.  She criticized everything I did.  Nothing I did was right.  This was to the level of OCD.  For example I could not fill the dish-washer "correctly" - she would empty it and reload it how she wanted.  Same for the washing on the drier.  The fact is I was there for her and I did help.  I took over care of our oldest so she could concentrate on our new baby.  Speaking to other couples this seems to be quite normal.  She accused me of not being there for her emotionally - but again this was not the case.  I would offer her comfort and emotional support and she would push me away then complain that I was not there for her!

You describe some typical BPD behaviors:  being critical, blaming, nothing is right, nothing is enough, etc.  She has a better chance to calm down the current BPD traits, if she gets some treatment. 

You say she is sensitive to any mention of treatment for mental illness.  How is her sister doing at the current time?  Other than her sister's mental health issues after her own pregnancy, are there any other mental health issues in your partner's family?  Unfortunately, we can't force someone to go to therapy.  Even if you could, if she doesn't want to cooperate with efforts to change her behavior, it won't happen.  The only thing you have control over is you.

The information at the links below, might help explain some of your partner's behavior

FAMILIAR FIGHTS

A THEORY ON THE PATTERN OF BLAME

Do you think the relationship is recoverable? 

I can hear how much you want her back and to be a family again. It's hard to predict what will happen.  Everyone with BPD is a little different.   If you appear too needy and pressure her, it could push her further away. 

What are you doing to try and relieve your stress in some healthy ways?  Exercise, mindfulness, meditation, sports, hobbies, etc.?

I'm thinking that you will see your partner, when you get your oldest child for visits, right.  Just focus on being pleasant with her right now and using some communication skills to reduce and handle conflict.

Have you read the lesson about ":)on't be invalidating"?  There is a link in the margin to the right, under "Basic Tools".  What's most important is that you don't say anything or give body language or expressions that might invalidate your partner.  Validation can be helpful, but if you can't do that, then focus on not invalidating.

[Healthy88]

AlCh,

Do you get to see your youngest child on a regular basis at all? I don't question your anger regarding your wife robbing you of precious time with your little one. You have every right to feel that way. However, maybe you can make the overnights extra special time with your 6 year old right now. I imagine she is going through a hard time too and once you have them both overnight, she won't get nearly as much attention from you.

Divorce does seem to breed more divorce, if one is running in that circle.

I am fairly new to BPD myself and certainly your wife may have it, but several things you have said alert my instincts that other things could also be at play here.

I posted a B12 Question and video on The Saving R/S Board. It may be worth a watch since it mentions both unpredictable anger rages and postpartum phychosis. You have already done everything medically that you can for your wife.

She is your wife, so whatever you do should be your decision even if others don't agree with you. Time will shed more light on the situation so just keep taking care of yourself and your kids. Learn all the skills you can from this board. They can be helpful in most any r/s so definitely worth learning.

[AlCh]

You say she is sensitive to any mention of treatment for mental illness.  How is her sister doing at the current time?  Other than her sister's mental health issues after her own pregnancy, are there any other mental health issues in your partner's family? 

Her sister seems ok now - she had treatment and was then fine.  I don't know of any other mental health issues in her family.

What are you doing to try and relieve your stress in some healthy ways?  Exercise, mindfulness, meditation, sports, hobbies, etc.?

I exercise regularly and play / listen to music.  The hardest thing I find is the feeling of isolation.  I focused on my family and haven't really developed a large social circle.  Most of our local friends were friends of both of us, but they seem distant now I wonder what stories she has been telling them.

I'm thinking that you will see your partner, when you get your oldest child for visits, right.  Just focus on being pleasant with her right now and using some communication skills to reduce and handle conflict.

Yes its very very difficult.  For example she will insist on trying to come into my house and she continually asks me into her house.  I don't feel I can really trust her at the moment after she lied about me.  She seems to have no understanding of my viewpoint here.  She cannot understand why she can't come into my house and I won't go into hers.  I'm always pleasant to her.  It's like she has absolutely no comprehension of how potentially harmful her allegations could be.  It seems like to her she never did anything wrong.  I think I have been lucky that her allegations have been pretty ridiculous - for example saying that she was domestically abused after she moved out!  She subsequently retracted this allegation.  It's just so confusing.  If this behavior is a result of pregnancy hormones shifting her along the BPD spectrum - how will I ever know when she is back to her normal self again and won't carry on her bizarre behviour?

Have you read the lesson about ":)on't be invalidating"?  There is a link in the margin to the right, under "Basic Tools".  What's most important is that you don't say anything or give body language or expressions that might invalidate your partner.  Validation can be helpful, but if you can't do that, then focus on not invalidating.

Yes I've read that - I don't think I invalidate her but I will pay careful attention.  It's difficult to validate someone when they have acted as she did (restricted my access to our children when she first moved out behind my back; and told lies about me to justify her actions to family and friends).

[AlCh]

Do you get to see your youngest child on a regular basis at all?  I don't question your anger regarding your wife robbing you of precious time with your little one. You have every right to feel that way. However, maybe you can make the overnights extra special time with your 6 year old right now. I imagine she is going through a hard time too and once you have them both overnight, she won't get nearly as much attention from you.

I get to see my youngest every other weekend and a couple of hours in the week.  My eldest has started to be very jealous when my youngest is present as she expects to have all of my attention now.

I am fairly new to BPD myself and certainly your wife may have it, but several things you have said alert my instincts that other things could also be at play here.

What did you have in mind?

She is your wife, so whatever you do should be your decision even if others don't agree with you. Time will shed more light on the situation so just keep taking care of yourself and your kids. Learn all the skills you can from this board. They can be helpful in most any r/s so definitely worth learning.

Yes - its really difficult because her behavior has been so out of character.  Maybe she just needs space? Its so strange because she even admitted that she misses me.  But another time she says she doesn't love me any more.

[Healthy88]

AlCh,

Your wife may absolutely have uBPD, I am not implying she doesn't. However, considering my own pregnancy experiences as a Non, the timing of her symptoms, her sister having postpartum phychosis and her having iron deficiency issues... .I am just guessing this may be more hormonally and nutritionally based, but I am not a Dr.

Did she have any issues conceiving, with preeclampsia, is she a vegetarian and has she ever been tested for MTHFR gene mutations?

It sounds like you are doing a wonderful job giving her space, being cordial and maintaining your boundaries about the homes. She is confused and has things to figure out, which she can't do unless you give her the time and space to do so.

I am sorry your oldest has a problem when the new baby is there too, but I am not surprised by the jealousy at all, under the circumstances and that she was the only one for 5 years. That is why I suggested making the most of the special alone time you have with her. You may also need to start preparing her for how things are going to be a little different when you start having both of them overnight, but that you still love her just as much even when her sibling is there. She is under going a lot of major changes and instability all at once. Who knows what Mom tells her versus what you share. She may be very confused right now. Counseling may be a good thing for her as well?

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey AlCH:  

 For example she will insist on trying to come into my house and she continually asks me into her house.  I don't feel I can really trust her at the moment after she lied about me.  She seems to have no understanding of my viewpoint here.  She cannot understand why she can't come into my house and I won't go into hers.  I'm always pleasant to her.  It's like she has absolutely no comprehension of how potentially harmful her allegations could be.  It seems like to her she never did anything wrong.  I think I have been lucky that her allegations have been pretty ridiculous - for example saying that she was domestically abused after she moved out!  She subsequently retracted this allegation.    

If you want to get back together with your partner, you need to step back into normal situations, like her coming into your house and the reverse.  I can see setting a boundary to not go into her home or have her inside yours, if you don't want to get back together with her, but you do.  You have to start stepping back into what can hopefully become more normal situations.  You won't likely make the huge leap from not going into each other's homes, to living together again.

Think of taking small steps.  You might want to begin with something like this:
1.  First, get your Safety Plan prepared.  If you wife's emotions explode while she is with you, how will you handle it (plan if you are at her house, plan if you are at your house, etc.)

2.  Your next step might be to meet at some child-friendly place with the children (park, restaurant, etc.).  Perhaps have a meal together and focus on pleasant conversation about the children.  Keep it light and pleasant.

3. Work up to having her into your home for a brief period of time, when she stops by your home to pick/up or drop/off your child/children for a visitation.  Maybe you ask her to come in to see something you bought for one of the children or perhaps just to join in a cup of tea or coffee.  She might decline upon the first invitation, because she is used to not being invited in.  So, expect that you might have to make an invitation or two before she steps into your home.  Just keep the conversation pleasant and light.  You don't want to jump into conversations about her coming back too soon.

4. Graduate to the next level at your home.  Increase the amount of time she will be inside your home.  Perhaps you invite her over to share a meal together at your home, with the children.  Try to make it as casual as possible and make it fit into the end of a visit with the children.

5. Once you feel comfortable inviting her into your home, you might want to try a similar evolution of steps in regard to entering her home.  Start out with a few minutes, and evolve to a longer time.

Perhaps you might want to get a nanny cam for a couple rooms in your home, or have a small audio recorder available and ready to use, if you get into a situation where your partner loses emotional control and gives signs that she might get violent.

If this behavior is a result of pregnancy hormones shifting her along the BPD spectrum - how will I ever know when she is back to her normal self again and won't carry on her bizarre behviour?
Yes I've read that - I don't think I invalidate her but I will pay careful attention.  It's difficult to validate someone when they have acted as she did (restricted my access to our children when she first moved out behind my back; and told lies about me to justify her actions to family and friends).

   
You mentioned that early on, she had a couple of BPD traits.  What were those traits?  The best thing you can do right now is master the communication skills to deal with current and past traits.  The likelihood is that she will never get rid of all her BPD traits.  With effort, some traits may disappear totally, some may stay and others may appear during stressful times (and then resolve when stress is managed).

If you give validation a try (versus not invalidating), remember that validating is not necessarily agreeing with her position on something.  You would be validating her feelings.  (i.e., You say the baby kept you awake most of the night.  I can understand that you are tired and you could be having a bad day, because of a lack of sleep.)

You say that her sister got treatment and appears to be fine now.  The one  common situation with pwBPD, is that they can appear to contain their emotions in situations with non family members, but behind closed doors they tend to let their emotions run free.  If you wife doesn't get any form of treatment (and her sister did), then it could take longer for your wife's emotions to tame down.

One size doesn't fit all and you can't predict what might happen.  Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.   The time you spend in mastering communication skills will never be wasted.  The skills increase your emotional IQ and will help you with your children, coworkers and other people in your life.

So, what skills do you think you need to sharpen?  What are some situations you could face with your partner in the near future, where it will help to prepare a strategy in advance?  How about preparing a plan to let her come into your home?  :)o you think that you have a chance of reconciling, if you don't ease your way into interacting with each other inside your homes?

[Healthy88]

Hey AlCh,

Hope no news is good news and things are going better!

[AlCh]

Hey AlCh,

Hope no news is good news and things are going better!

Not really.  My estranged wife is still very controlling.  She recently told my eldest daughter to keep something secret from me - which caused my daughter considerable stress.  She broke down crying in front of me because her mum asked her to do this.  I've seen a counsellor and she warned me not to enter my estranged wife's house in case she loses her temper again and attacks me.