Am I Really a Victim?

[DaddyBear77]

I've posted a few times and I've really appreciated how compassionate and accepting everyone has been. I truly get the sense that most of us have "been there" and I'm not alone in my struggles.

Despite that, I still struggle most days, wondering, is it just me? Or is she REALLY that mixed up, delusional, mentally ill?

I just read someone else's post, and in it the writer talked about being trapped and controlled. I also read a couple of you talking about how you're 6 foot tall football-playing big guys (me too), and despite that you lie in bed afraid to roll over and make too much noise (me too.) So I guess that establishes that ANYONE can be victims of abusive relationships.  Sorry, I don't mean to be sexist or anything of the sort. I think I'm probably just reflecting back what we see in society, and I anticipate seeing this in the courts, too. Inevitably someone is going to say "what do you mean YOU'RE the victim?" I already hear it 5 times a day from my pwBPD.

So, ok, some OTHER men are victims, but am *I*? In 17 years I guess there have been a couple of physical things but I know that if I needed to I could easily defend myself. I am the sole bread winner - in a divorce I'll clearly pay alimony and child support as needed but I already have an income stream so that's not an issue. In my mind I guess that eliminates some of the most "horrible" forms of abuse but does that make the emotional stuff less important and a reason NOT to separate / file? Are blame, beratement, anger, hostility, and false accusations something more acceptable than kicking, punching, and withholding financial support? I would never do ANY of those things. Or would I? Is the fact that I lie, deceive, manipulate to get by negate the effects of blame and beratement and all the other stuff?

It's a lot of questions and again, I'm sure most of us have the same ones. I just wanted to get this out there and get it out of my head where it's eating me slowly from the inside.

Thanks for listening. And for those of you suffering the same kinds of things, my heart goes out to you, too.

DB

[formflier]

 

No time for a "full" response... but wanted to send you a hug.  I'm a big guy too!

Anyway... .it really is her.  That doesn't mean you don't have things to work on... .but you need the proper perspective to find "your part".

Personally... I don't like the word victim.  I see a victim as someone without choices... . 

More later... .

Can you give us a recent example of a relationship struggle. ?

FF

[Notwendy]

Men can be victims of domestic abuse. I used to consider my father to be a victim of abuse, the abuser being my 100lb mother.

But was he really a victim? Here is where I draw on the Drama Triangle. There are true victims- but they are often people who can not stand up for themselves, can not defend themselves and had no choice in the matter.

Abused children, elderly people, can be victims of abuse. A small woman becomes a victim if she is overpowered by a larger man. Yet, in dysfunctional relationships, assuming victim role is dysfunctional and takes away the person's responsibility for his/her own choices.

Co-dependency is not victim hood, it is a dysfunctional relationship pattern that the co-dependent person is responsible for.

Pw BPD tend to assume victim role because it absolves them of their responsibility for the situation. If a co-dependent takes on victim role it takes the focus off them and on to the other person- she is the abuser, I am the victim.

I will propose that in this case, you are not a victim. You are a participant in this dysfunction. You are allowing your wife to treat you in a certain manner. Why you do this is not my place to say.

She didn't hold you up at gunpoint and make you overspend on her.

When she is yelling at you on the phone your life is not in danger.

You have choices, but I will bet you are fearful of those choices and the consequences, but you still have a choice about how to respond to her.

I say this with compassion. You are not a victim and if you think you are- you are disempowering yourself.

[formflier]

  You are not a victim and if you think you are- you are disempowering yourself.

I used to think of myself as a victim... .and I was "victimized" by my wife.  Strong boundaries and "getting over the fear" of what she may do has helped my make healthier choices for me.

Zero chance that a couple years ago I would have ever considered truly separating my finances from my wife.  That's now in the process of being done... .my wife doesn't like it.  She is entitled to her feelings and to express herself as she likes.

I've chosen to proceed. 

Did she "victimize" me in the past... .financially speaking.  Yes she did.  I also made choices that allowed... .or more properly... ."enabled" that to happen. 

I know how my wife views money... .and I know how she views "deals"... .trying to change her mind hasn't worked.  Making choices about the money I bring to the family will work... .because I am 100% in control of that... .

FF

[SettingBorders]

I really like what NotWendy wrote about (not) identifying with beeing a victim.

Are blame, beratement, anger, hostility, and false accusations something more acceptable than kicking, punching, and withholding financial support?

No, but it's more difficut to detect, also for the addressee him/herself. But if you feel uncomfortable, you need to protect your rights, space, freedom, life, even if it's not even violence at all. I'm making the same mistake to think about if it is ethically acceptable to leave. But it isn't a quetion of ethics. It's about how you feel.

Is the fact that I lie, deceive, manipulate to get by negate the effects of blame and beratement and all the other stuff?

Often times co-dependents adapt some of the abusive behaviour. The most hurtful thing for me is how I am not able to be myself, how I have lost grasp of my needs and feelings. Maybe we can change ourselves within a relationship with someone mentally ill, become the emotional caretaker and manage the difficult moments better. But I don't believe we'll have enough energy to ever be proud and conent about how generous, wise and happy we have become.

[Notwendy]

I'm not a lawyer, but if you are asking if verbal abuse is a reason- or even less of a reason- than physical abuse to divorce someone, I think that verbal abuse over time is as damaging as physical abuse emotionally.

Is the fact that I lie, deceive, manipulate to get by negate the effects of blame and beratement and all the other stuff?

Nope, she is who she is, and you are who you are. The problem with this kind of behavior is that it diminishes you- I don't think you want to be a liar, or deceiver, but you choose this in the moment as the path of least resistance.

Two people can treat each other poorly in a marriage. There are many reasons for divorce. If you are the only wage earner, there will likely be alimony, but when considering money it seems expensive to stay married too. Likely this isn't a significant reason to stay or not to stay.

The child is, yet there are parents who divorced and who made it work to the best of their ability. It's a reasonable idea to "stay for the child" but it also could be a mask for more underlying reasons that you don't want to leave. When we kids got old enough to question the situation, we asked my Dad why he didn't leave her. His reply was that he stayed for us because she would get custody. Yet, eventually we grew up and left home- and he didn't leave her.

It took me a long time to realize my father's role in this. I saw him as the victim for many years- he made the money, my mother seemed to spend it like it grew on trees. There was no money for me for college, yet no matter what she wanted- there seemed to be money for that. Or even money for his needs later on.

I don't blame him for his co-dependency- I realized his situation when dealing with my own- having grown up with him and my mother as role models and I picked his. My parents fit together in their own way. He was her rescuer and her victim. Although he said he stayed with her for the kids, there had to be more reasons as they had many years together after we were grown and had left home. Their relationship was stronger than his bond with us. Was it all bad? Surely not. Was it the right decision to stay or leave? That isn't for us to say- it was the decision he wanted to make, and he had a choice. He wasn't a victim.

Neither are you- and your choice is something that only you can decide. You don't need a reason to stay ( the child) or a reason to leave ( the verbal abuse) as the reason isn't outside you. It's about you.