Joint custody, exuBPDw gave me notice that she's moving

[Mutt]

I woke up this morning and checking my phone to find an email with the subject line - moving. My ex says that this was a last minute decision and that she is moving about 21 miles at the end of the month and that  the kids are going to stay at the current daycare and school until the end of summer and that she wants to come to an arrangement and wants to changes to the current court order but doesn't expect it as well. So, I guess that she decided that the kids are going to be moving schools.

I called EFAP which is an employee family assistant program to talk to a family lawyer, I get up to 30 minutes for a free consultation, they'll call me over the next three days. I have joint custody, her bf boyfriend's mom lives in this town, from what I understand is that he's not working, he's on medical leave, I know that my exuBPDw had issues with keeping up with the payments with daycare because of the baby, it has to be expensive with 4 kids, maybe their moving to get help from family, I don't know it's speculation.

I haven't replied to the email because I want to talk to a lawyer first, it's the beginning of the month and if you move you have to give the other parent 30 days notice, I get the feeling that she knows more than she's leading on because I think that she's just telling me what she plans on doing, she wants to change the court order or come up with an agreement, but this has nothing to do about me or the kids she's looking for caretaking and I don't think that she can afford court, that may work to my advantage.            

I plan on retaining a lawyer, so I'm looking for support, I'd like to hear stories from others if they went through something similar. I feel like maybe I should fight for full custody and not settle for join custody because the kids need stability and not be removed from the community and school.

[ForeverDad]

Changing from joint custody is probably hard to do unless there are some incidents or reasons to make the change.  May require a Change of Circumstances filing in many states.  I'm not discouraging you, do ask your lawyer about that but it's possible a more feasible approach would be to seek more parenting time on the schedule along with Decision Making or Tie Breaker status or something similar.

[Ananass]

Hey Mutt, I feel what you are going through about the move. As stated by ForeverDad, changing custody is more complicated. 21 miles does not seem like a very long distance but may impact the kids' life. The best approach might be assessing the impact it may have on the kids especially if they have to switch schools as well as the visitation. Given than it was a last minute decision, it doesn't seem like it was well thought out. Those are the things the judge will look at and maybe overall may play a part in switching custody. You do not have to agree to the move if it affects the kids. I am not an attorney but I hope this helps.

[Mutt]

I'm not discouraging you, do ask your lawyer about that but it's possible a more feasible approach would be to seek more parenting time on the schedule along with Decision Making or Tie Breaker status or something similar.

Given than it was a last minute decision, it doesn't seem like it was well thought out. Those are the things the judge will look at and maybe overall may play a part in switching custody. You do not have to agree to the move if it affects the kids. I am not an attorney but I hope this helps.

Guys, good points. I was told to write down questions for the lawyer, I'll bring these points up. I don't agree with the move, I didn't tell her because I have a feeling that she'll throw it right back in my face that I'm controlling, it's her life to live etc. That doesn't concern me, what concerns me all of the kids have been a part of our community since they were born, they're all going to the same school, they would probably all go to the same school there, I live in a city this is a really small town, they have friends in daycare, friends in school, long term friends in their short lives anyways outside of school.

Despite the chaos around them after the split and the feelings that they have about mom and dad splitting, it was really important for me, for them to have something that was routine in their lives and it gave them the sense of stability, I can't imagine what it would be when your homelife and your school life change dramatically. That said, I'm glad that I posted, I didn't think that I could ask for more time

[mywifecrazy]

I haven't posted on here in a LOONG time.  I just wanted to say that I'm sorry to hear that you are having to deal with this Mutt. I can just imagine the sadness you must feel as a Dad even thinking of your kids moving a little further away and how this will effect them.  If you have Joint physical custody (sorry don't remember the facts of your story) and shared legal custody (50/50?) I believe you have to agree on things like school? Since she's moving to another school district wouldn't that weigh in your favor as keeping them in the school district they're in would be better then uprooting them? Maybe that would workout that the kids stay with you more and go to visit with Mom on weekends?

Either way hang in there brother, just wanted to pop in to say hello and let you know I'm saying a prayer for you and your kids.  No matter what happens fight for your rights and keep being a great Dad as your stability no matter what the custody arrangement is will be what your kids need to lean on to navigate these turbulent BPD waters.

Sincerely... .MWC

[Mutt]

If you have Joint physical custody (sorry don't remember the facts of your story) and shared legal custody (50/50?) I believe you have to agree on things like school? Since she's moving to another school district wouldn't that weigh in your favor as keeping them in the school district they're in would be better then uprooting them? Maybe that would workout that the kids stay with you more and go to visit with Mom on weekends?

It's nice seeing you again old friend! I hope everything is going well for you and your boys, you're right join physical and shared legal custody. I felt a lot of anxiety this morning, she sent this last night, she could of thought about when she could deliver this news, I was worried about the kids spending more time with mom if they were going to another school, she just sounded so detached in her email.

I know that he can't stand to be around me because it triggers shame with him, I've seen bolt from his front porch into the house on more then one occasion and complain to my ex that I should call before I show up. Anyways, I also didn't want to give her an ideas as to what I would do, I don't feel like discussing this with her before I talk to a lawyer.

I feel more centered by getting a balanced perspective from everyone in this thread, it's always one thing or another with her, her needs at the expense of others, their older sister went through a lot of abuse when my ex left because he hadn't moved in, she became the lightning rod for her behaviors because I was out of the picture, my exSD went to the hospital a few times, she went missing ( she was found ) and is living a very tumultuous life, she shows traits of BPD, her dad was absent in her life.

I'm just thinking the worst case scenario, things always have a way of working themselves out. Thank you for the kind words MWC.

[takingandsending]

Mutt,

Do you know the factors that your state considers when a parent wants to relocate kids? In my state, there are 10 factors, and it is up to the parent making the request to justify how their petition meets those criteria. The non-custodial parent has 30 days to object and rebut that petition. I would definitely talk to a lawyer, and I would get familiar with your state's regulations. In my state they are: 1) relative strength, nature, quality and extent of involvement and stability of child's relationship with parent, siblings; 2) prior agreement of the parties; 3) whether disrupting contact between the child and person with whom the child resides a majority of the time would be more detrimental to child than disrupting contact between child and person objecting to relocation; 4) any court recognized special limitations either parent has in taking care of children; 5) reasons for seeking relocation and good faith of each party in requesting/opposing (i.e. are parties acting in self interest or children's interest); 6) age, developmental stage and needs of child and impact relocation or prevention will have on child's physical, educational, emotional development including any special needs of the child; 7) quality of life, resources and opportunities available to child and relocating party in current and proposed locations; 8) availability of alternative arrangements to foster and continue child's relationship with and access to other parent; 9) alternatives to relocation and whether it is feasible and desirable for other party to relocate also; 10) financial impact and logistics of relocation or its prevention.

Put some thoughts together on those type of topics to discuss with your lawyer. Hope it helps. I am in dread of my STBxw arbitrarily choosing a similar approach.

[ForeverDad]

I know that he can't stand to be around me because it triggers shame with him, I've seen bolt from his front porch into the house on more then one occasion and complain to my ex that I should call before I show up.

That is certainly not normal behavior for a child.  A perceptive counselor should detect that.  Is it the youngest?  I believe the kids are now 5-6 boy, 8-9 boy and 11-12 girl?

Sounds like your son (well, all of them) would benefit from counseling.  Do they have counselor(s)?  Generally, courts love the concept of counseling.  For the kids it can be ordered, for the adults I think the courts just deal with the parents as they are.

If the kids are not already in meaningful counseling then addressing the Move issue may be an opportunity to get Counseling started too, at the very least.  It shows your interest and concern for the children's welfare.  However just any counselor, especially if a gullible one is chosen by mother, can be a disaster.  One method that has worked well for many is to have a prepared list of reputable, experienced counselors, one very familiar with obstructive parents if not also the impact of PD parents.  Tell the court you've researched the local counselors and narrowed the list down to a few.  The judge and lawyers will see these are experienced persons that can't be disqualified.  By asking for your Ex to pick one shows that you have made it so that both of you have a part in the selection process.  Of course, no one needs to say out loud that you stacked the deck with only good people, sneaky you.

If you end up creating a list of issues to address in court, then be sure to present proposed solutions as well.  In court your ex may be focused on complaining about you, you need to focus instead on the children and solutions that will help them.

[Mutt]

I didn't realize that there where so many things to take into consideration takingandsending. You have a good memory Foreverdad, yes my kids are S5, S9 and D11. I meant that its my exes boyfriend that bolts into his house when he spots, albeit he's been better, he's been passive aggressive and going through my ex wife. The kids have witnessed his behavior at times.

My kids go through the Catholic school system, i'd like for them to stay in that system. I was appointed a social worker through the school system a couple of years ago, I think it was my mom that told my to look into that because a social worker can find programs for the kids in the community for sports and help for the parents with finding housing, counselling etc.

I had a meeting her just this week actually and she asked me how the kids were doing and I told her that kids had improved and that I was worried about my daughter. I'm worried about her because I think that she could benefit from talking to someone, I sensed that she was holding something back but she won't abandon talk to me, I understand.

I think you're right though that they could all use counseling and especially now with the move, I can imagine how stressful that would be to be in two communities and the move forces that subject to come out to light. I had declined the social worker because we had both felt that there was time behind us after the split and the programs reflected seperation and divorce, they wanted people to wait until 6 months after the events so that they were not so raw, I told her that gave me an idea to get in touch with my EFAP and they'll be able to refer me to counsellors.

It might be tricky to get my exBPDw on the same page and it's probably easier for me because there's less resistance, she doesn't find value with counselors   probably because that would validate that she has a negative impact on the kids, but she has left up to me in the past to take the kids to appointments.

For example, my S9 has a learning disability and I have been taking him to his appointments for the last year because mom doesn't want to do it. You've given me things to think about, this may turn out better for me than I thought, I feel better today anyway, I just thought last night before bed that I have to keep going to bat for the kids, i'm in a better position than I was even just a year ago. I've beaten her twice in court, I can beat her again.

[Mutt]

I just got off the phone with a free lawyer consultation through EFAP. It wasn't a long conversation, the lawyer she can't just do that, we have shared parenting and it's incredibly difficult to do that if she's moving out of town last minute, my oldest is in her last year of elementary school, the kids have all been going to the same daycare, same school and community or several years.

The L said the kids will have to stay with me and she's going to have to prove why she thinks that the kids will be better off with her. The L said I hope that you don't expect her to change her mind, . I said, I want to get a lawyer. She also said it's going to be uphill for my ex wife.‎

She's sending me emails for lawyer referrals, next step is to make some calls and retain one. I still haven't responded to her email.

[flourdust]

What's your ex-wife's history in following through on threats or plans? It's common for pwBPD to make threats when dysregulated but not follow through on them. All you have now is one email sent out of the blue. Before hiring anyone, you might want to see how real this is.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm thinking that from a legal point of view, it usually requires less effort to shut down a change than to force a change.

Getting full custody from a joint custody situation is a change, and as others said would be hard to force. Probably expensive and slow.

Moving the kids from their current school system to another is a change that your ex is trying to force onto you and them.

You don't think it i will be good for the kids.

What does your custody agreement say about making changes like this? Hopefully it doesn't give her the legal right to do it with or without your agreement.

Stopping this seems like a much easier legal move, but lawyer up and get good answers.

From a solid boundary perspective, it seems better to tell your ex "You can move any place you want, but I won't let you move our kids out of their current school."

How you give her that message is something to strategize with your lawyer... .

[Mutt]

That's a good observation that I may be overreacting. I think she means it, I saw a sign for a 3 bedroom vacancy at her complex today that wasn't there a couple of days ago. I also don't trust her and I don't want to directly deal with her, I wish that we could negotiate, I don't have think that she has the money to lawyer up, he's not working and she was behind with daycare. I also t know that she doesn't like court or  facing judges, I don't feel like she'll drag this out.

I didn't ask her why because I get the kids next week and i'm pretty sure they'll mention and probably why they're moving. I don't think I have changes in my court order, it has the holidays and switch on / switch off times, you're right i'll get some more solid answers when I get another consultation with the next L.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm not sure I'd say you are overreacting, just that you may be better off than you realize.

It sounds like your ex is very capable of acting rashly. She could up and move herself and the kids, tell the school they are leaving, and enroll them elsewhere.

Maybe she doesn't realize that the custody arrangement would prevent her from doing it legally. Maybe she thinks she can get away with it anyways.

Better to stop her before she does it, preventing disruption of the kids.

Better your lawyer than you playing "bad cop" and telling her she can't do it, or that the kids will stay near their school even if she does move.

If you let her move the kids and change schools without contesting it loudly and legally, you could end up stuck with the "new normal". Seems to me that the risks are very real.

I'm assuming you are prepared to take more custody time, if it works out that way.

Hmmmm... .obviously things can stay the same as they are, and that is OK by you.

Would you want to offer her a 75%/25% custody split where you get weekdays and she gets weekends, so they can stay at the same school and she can move? You probably can't force that, but if the two of you agree to it, you can probably get the courts to sign off on it. I'm thinking that it would be foolish/dangerous to make a change like that without formally amending your custody agreement.

That could be a big win for you (and the kids), especially as it sounds like your household is more stable for the kids, so this should benefit them.

[takingandsending]

Mutt,

I believe most states would require a parent with access rights that wants to move to petition that move in the courts at least 30 days prior to the move taking place. The courts notify anyone else with access rights and they have a period of time to file an objection. So, even if she gives you verbal notice, until you receive the written notice from the court, she might be in violation of the law if she moves them.

[Mutt]

I'll bring that up with the L takingandsending, thank you.

She's very impulse. When she moved out she didn't have a job or a place to live, she did quickly find a place to live without a job, she said she was being abused from her husband and she needed a place for her and the kids, the woman that's the manager at her complex had sympathy for her so she rented her a place and she also subsidy for her townhouse, she paying very low rent. ‎

Her boyfriend didn't move in with her for a year after we split, she got into a fender bender that I refused to pay, she had car payments and no income, the kids were in daycare another expense she couldn't afford.

She had asked to watch the kids while I was at work. I had a couple problems with, I didn't want to find her angry and refusing to watch the kids to punish me. The other problem was I didn't want her to have so much contact with the kids on my time so I turned her down.

Daycare was under her name, because her subsidy for daycare was much better then mine because of her lower income. Anyways, one day I went to go the kids in daycare to find all three of them had been taken out and the director was told that we didn't need daycare anymore. I was angry because we could of lost our placing in the daycare and would of had to of found another daycare, i'm working full time, my job was paying her child support, she's taking risks that could hurt her too. Also, i didn't want to pay her child support and baby sitting fees, she wanted to divorce but she still wanted to be dependent on me, I absolutely refused.

She hadn't even consulted me that she was going to take them out, she just did it  to extort money out of me, so I registered the kids in daycare under my name and the fees were much higher because I make more money than her, she complained about that for a long time because I refused to cancel the subsidy, I mentioned that she was behind earlier in payments, she blamed me for not cancelling it, I couldn't trust to pull the same stunt.

My thought was to keep the kids during the school year, she can have them for the weekends, holidays, and part of the summer holidays. I work shift work, I trade my weeks that I have with the kids with coworkers, it's a pain in the behind, if I take the kids 75% of the time, i'd apply in a different area at work with wages that are a little less but I get the weekends off and I don't have to trade shifts.

[ForeverDad]

Does one parent have primary contact with the school?  It is designated in the parenting plan/order?

I'm not sure I'd say you are overreacting, just that you may be better off than you realize.

Better to stop her before she does it, preventing disruption of the kids.

Better your lawyer than you playing "bad cop" and telling her she can't do it, or that the kids will stay near their school even if she does move.

If you let her move the kids and change schools without contesting it loudly and legally, you could end up stuck with the "new normal". Seems to me that the risks are very real.

I'm assuming you are prepared to take more custody time, if it works out that way.

I posted to others before, sort of tongue-in-cheek, "It's okay for Ex to move, you don't mind one bit (that is, you're not controlling her) BUT the kids stay."

As respects weekends, the courts almost always order some form of alternate weekends in the schedule.  It gives both parents a weekend with the kids as well as a weekend off.  There are exceptions such as for emergency workers who must work more weekends than regular workers.

How possessive is she of the kids?  If you can get more time with the kids, then take it, opportunities to increase parenting time are rare.

[Mutt]

I had to take a look at the court order, there's no mention of a parent being a primary contact with the school, it simply states that both parents have shared parenting 50 / 50 and joint custody. Ok, that makes sense that one parent is not the military parent with getting the kids, taking them to daycare or school etc.

That's a good question Foreverdad and it's one that worries me, she is possesive and that possessiveness is a form of validation for her, for example I mentioned earlier that she had said that i was abusive when she left, she'll say that she'll stick up for the kids and get them away from an abusive father, it abstains her in her mind of her impulsive actions.