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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: What to do with this kid...  (Read 409 times)
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« on: March 01, 2017, 10:45:38 PM »

My SD12 is starting to show signs of rapid deterioration as he closes in on turning 13. His diagnosis has been adjustment disorder, anxiety and depression. But at this point his behaviors have become something else all together. Nobody would diagnos him with a personality disorder this early, but based on what I've seen and read I'd say he shows every possible symptom of a quiet borderline. No screaming rages or anything like that but incredibly passive aggressive and seems to seek out being punished and has a strange unhealthy focus on his own perceived badness.

His counselor has also said that he has very little insight, seems to just be existing rather than living, he shows an inability to forecast based on past events unless it is to assume a negative out come to give himself an excuse to not try, and he is a very very concrete thinker and it doesn't look like that is ever going to change.

He has shown absolutely no interest in trying to improve in any way, despite everything DH and I are trying to do to help him or get him on the right path. He actually told his counselor that he does bad things and DH punishes him and then he gets mad at DH for punishing him for doing a bad thing so he does another bad thing to get back at DH for the punishment. Explaining to him that he could simply do what he was supposed to do (keep basic hygiene, do a couple of simple chores, and do what he is supposed to do in school) and the whole cycle could be avoided falls on deaf ears. He simply doesn't want to have to be accountable. So where do you go with that?

It's really hard to have the patience for this. Sometimes all I can think about is having to deal with him continuing to live under our roof acting like this after he graduates high school. If he continues down this path he won't be capable of holding down a job and being on his own and I feel like he's already counting on DH and I to continue to caretake for as long as it suits him.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2017, 11:49:37 AM »

Oof. I'm so sorry to hear you could have a child/teen with a PD.

A child who has an unhealthy focus on their own perceived badness is so hard to reach. SO has a D19 who is a quiet borderline by all accounts, and compared to the external raging of my N/BPDx, I find D19's BPD harder in some ways.

How is your SO responding to his son? My SO, when we first started to live together, was very codependent with D19. It was hard to watch.

Not sure if this applies to your situation, but the key for me was realizing D19 is many different selves, and they rotate. She isn't DID, though she does seem to have fragmented selves that come out depending on what is being asked of her, or how she is reacting to people.

For example, when SO is being codependent with her, or lecturing her about something she is fully capable of knowing or learning or doing on her own, she regresses and it's like she's a little kid, and acts that way. Whereas, if I treat her like a competent, adequate adult, she rises to the occasion. I tend to see more adult behaviors from her because that's what I expect from her.

I also realized that straight up validation does not work with her. I have to use validating questions so that as many interactions as possible, she is accountable for herself. I do this with my son - he does not have a PD but he has a tendency toward self-defeating behaviors and some remarkable strategies for dodging accountability.

I recommend Loving Someone with BPD by Shari Manning or Overcoming BPD by Valerie Porr. Even if your SS12 does not develop or have a PD, these books have really good advice about how to skillfully raise expectations without invalidating people who really do seem to have a harder time dealing with day to day living.

The good thing is that you have spotted this early and know where it comes from. If you start now, and work as a team with your H, your SS may be able to transition to adulthood.

One thing about that, tho -- D19 is at college and by academic measures is doing well. Even with that, she is in our lives in a big way. All holidays, summer break, plus constant texting and phone calls to SO. Apparently, this generation and the next are more likely to boomerang back home and lean on parents because things are so economically challenging. A child who has a mental illness is probably even more likely to lean on parents, especially if the other one is low or non-functioning.

 


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« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2017, 02:48:15 PM »

Thank you for the thoughts and book recommendation, L&L. I'm going to look at that book and talk with DH. I'm grateful for the thought that we may still have enough time to get SS up and running. DH is working on his response to SS's behaviors. It's slow going because DH's natural reaction when trying to talk about things and "get through" to SS with "pep talks" is actually the same JADEing he always used to do with SS's uBPDm. It's very hard for DH to grasp that SS can't be reasoned out of his behavior and thinking. But he is working on it.

As for SS, he simply shuts down. He won't answer questions. He won't give explanations. He simply stands there staring blankly when confronted and this will go on until it's been however long it takes for the adult to dismiss him. If he is sent to his room to think about an answer he will be asked again later and the same blank stare occurs until he is again dismissed.

I have no doubt that SS expects that he will continue to get needs met here instead of with his mom. Even now neither of the kids ever goes to uBPDm to get needs met. Not even when they are with her. TBH they don't go to DH either because DH is always working and has TBI from his military service as well as ADHD so stuff like "I need new socks" isn't something DH can hold in his head and act on. The person the kids come to is almost exclusively me. I don't imagine a time in the future where he would go to either of his parents so I'm under a weird kind of pressure. You would think his dependence would buy me something with him, but he doesn't behave any better for me or even make any more of an effort.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2017, 04:20:44 PM »

DH's natural reaction when trying to talk about things and "get through" to SS with "pep talks" is actually the same JADEing he always used to do with SS's uBPDm. It's very hard for DH to grasp that SS can't be reasoned out of his behavior and thinking. But he is working on it.

Oh, wow! This is so similar to what my SO does. He has this tendency to lecture or explain things to D19 and this totally, 100 percent, absolutely goes over like a lead balloon with her. She does the same thing you describe, face goes blank (my T calls this masking emotions) and not only does she check out, she distorts the conversation and interprets it as the complete opposite of what SO intended it to be.

For example, SO went for a walk with D19 and explained he needed to recognize she was an adult, that she was so much more capable and competent and it was taking him a minute to catch up and recognize her as an adult. She interpreted that to mean that he doesn't think she's acting like an adult.

That thing you are picking up on, where your SS interprets everything negatively -- that is super important. I came home jet-lagged and exhausted from a trip across the country and D19, even when I explain how tired I am, interpreted my fatigue as a sign I was mad at her. It's like everything positive gets screened out and only the negative stuff is kept and weaponized against herself. That's why I no longer simply validate her if I can at all avoid it. I think she needs to discharge her self-loathing while also taking responsibility for how she gathered negative information, what she did with it, and what she plans to do about it.


Excerpt
As for SS, he simply shuts down. He won't answer questions. He won't give explanations. He simply stands there staring blankly when confronted and this will go on until it's been however long it takes for the adult to dismiss him. If he is sent to his room to think about an answer he will be asked again later and the same blank stare occurs until he is again dismissed.

It sounds like he is disassociating to protect himself from experiencing strong feelings. He may be trying to access what has in the past been a successful defense mechanism, except now he is supposed to be accountable and that doesn't translate for him. He's at the dysfunctional end of that defense mechanism.

You would think his dependence would buy me something with him, but he doesn't behave any better for me or even make any more of an effort.

I wonder if he is like D19 here, too. I don't do things for her without participation on her part. Because she has such a low opinion of herself and her adequacy, I make it a point to not undermine how competent I think she is. This is really hard stuff, but doing things for her doesn't work either. It is truly like re-parenting a toddler.

She left the pantry open one morning and our dog got into a box of granola bars that she later on vomited up when D19 had returned from her job. It took everything I had to focus on D19 solving the problem instead of cleaning up the mess myself. I gave her gloves and a bag and let her know I was still technically working (I often work from home). She asked a lot of questions and did a crappy job of dealing with the mess -- it took her over an hour and she tried to rope me in repeatedly. We sort of muddled through it, and I saw a way to gracefully let her off the hook when I encouraged her to call the vet and take the dog in just to check that all systems were a go. That gave her a better task than cleaning up the rest of the vomit. She was super anxious doing the task but later on felt like she accomplished something and kept talking about how she fixed the problem. I think these kids are about 4 years old inside, maybe 3, and they are both overwhelmed by and desperately need to work through their own daily tasks and problems.

With my son, I make him do everything with me there side by side, applying the love and logic stuff wherever possible.

This is not to say any of this is easy. It's 10x harder, and takes 20x more time and effort. Plus, I have to get SO on board. If D19 wants to move out of her current living arrangement (for the 10th time), let her figure it out. Or let her ask for specific help. I gently chide him when he starts to rescue and go into oversolving mode. When she sends distress texts, I try to coach him in validating how she feels and let her come up with solutions on her own. 9/10 she has an idea of what needs to happen.

It's been a long process. 3 years ago she was way needier and it was honestly hard to deal with her.

The advice in those books will help and you may start to see some results from all your coaching in time.
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2017, 04:49:38 PM »

Thanks L&L. My SS has been going to the same counselor in the same office with the same office staff for two years. The way it has always worked is that he'd go in and sit down while I'd tell the office staff he was here and then I'd sit with him and wait for his appointment. A couple of weeks ago I had to drop him off at his appointment and take his sister to hers so I told him to go in himself and tell them he was there and wait for his counselor. Total anxiety and melt down ensued. I need to come up with things that give him a chance to work through such anxiety and find some independence. A huge part of his problem is that he doesn't believe he can do anything without an adult standing over him. She may not admit it but it sounds much the same for your SD.
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« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2017, 07:25:46 PM »

While he's too early to have a BPD diagnosis, the traits could observed could explain a troubled teen in distress.  Sounds like some waif-ish tendencies?

Spring is approaching, could he and his dad work on a project outside, plan time for river rafting, mountain hiking or some other activities?
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livednlearned
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2017, 08:00:21 AM »

I need to come up with things that give him a chance to work through such anxiety and find some independence.

I have had to figure this kind of thing out too. It's still a work in progress.

My S15 is not BPD but he struggles with anxiety. I try to use the same techniques with him that I use with SO's D19, but I have more experience with him because I parent him more.

For example, I will agree to go into his favorite place to order food to go before his T appointment, but he will have to order what he wants and hand over the money. This is probably something a younger kid would have figured out long ago -- with S15, his anxiety can be so overwhelming that it's taken him longer to get there.

Another thing that works for him is if I say things like, "It's going to be awkward for the first 5 minutes or so, and then _________." When he met his tutor for the first time at the library, I had to try to think about probable emotions he might have and describe them, and then suggest things I have done to help manage discomfort in similar situations. His complaining is usually intense prior to the meeting, and I've had to learn to hear him out and acknowledge that this is how it is for him. While continuing to proceed anyway.

I also have said, "If you are in there for 15 minutes and feel overwhelmed, I will be here in the parking lot and you can come out and tell me how you're feeling. We can talk things through from there. After 15 minutes, I'll head off to do my errands." He's never taken me up on that, but I notice that just having a back-up for his distress gives him some confidence to do something new and different.

It's kind of about, "This is what I will be doing while you are doing x, and how we can work together to think of a way for you to work through your distress."

Regular parenting has never worked with S15. So this is how we do things now.

Basically, normalizing his anxiety so he feels less alone, giving him a security blanket, and above all, having him do it anyway.

Small baby steps.
 
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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2017, 11:23:39 AM »

The last time he went into the counselor's office knowing you weren't there to rescue him.  Dropping him off and driving away was too much.  How about next time asking him to go on in and check in while you make a call just outside.  He will know you're nearby though out of sight.  See if that's a small enough step for him to manage?

Rehearsing a new expected scenario or possible scenarios is an excellent idea.  How many times have we found ourselves floundering around trying to think of a proper response when our Ex caught us by surprise and under pressure as to what to do?  By rehearsing or reviewing various scenarios with him then he will be less likely to be caught off guard and triggered into withdrawal.
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