A good article

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-angry-therapist/201703/10-relationship-truths-i-wish-i-knew-sooner

Just read it this morning. I think it's far too easy to beat ourselves up about the "what if's" etc. But I believe that we were all at least viewing our relationships in this light. I know I was. And we can't fault ourselves to choose people who didn't view them like this at all. This gave me some solace. Knowing I wasn't crazy to think this is how a relationship could be. Everyone have a good day

[roberto516]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-angry-therapist/201703/10-relationship-truths-i-wish-i-knew-sooner

Just read it this morning. I think it's far too easy to beat ourselves up about the "what if's" etc. But I believe that we were all at least viewing our relationships in this light. I know I was. And we can't fault ourselves to choose people who didn't view them like this at all. This gave me some solace. Knowing I wasn't crazy to think this is how a relationship could be. Everyone have a good day

[mar356]

"Just read it this morning. I think it's far too easy to beat ourselves up about the "what if's" etc. But I believe that we were all at least viewing our relationships in this light. I know I was. And we can't fault ourselves to choose people who didn't view them like this at all. This gave me some solace. Knowing I wasn't crazy to think this is how a relationship could be. Everyone have a good day "

Happy Friday Roberto,

This is a great article that I enjoyed reading! It would be nice if everyone got their relationship articles from the same source without the propaganda bias.  For example, a girl reads a relationship article on the type of guy she should pursue, with the ridiculous standards. Then a guy reads a article a the girl he should pursue. Article to guy might say confidence is key and the article from the girl says don't go for cocky. It is a catch 22 and until people become smart enough to figure this out, we are in a loss place.

[roberto516]

"Just read it this morning. I think it's far too easy to beat ourselves up about the "what if's" etc. But I believe that we were all at least viewing our relationships in this light. I know I was. And we can't fault ourselves to choose people who didn't view them like this at all. This gave me some solace. Knowing I wasn't crazy to think this is how a relationship could be. Everyone have a good day "

Happy Friday Roberto,

This is a great article that I enjoyed reading! It would be nice if everyone got their relationship articles from the same source without the propaganda bias.  For example, a girl reads a relationship article on the type of guy she should pursue, with the ridiculous standards. Then a guy reads a article a the girl he should pursue. Article to guy might say confidence is key and the article from the girl says don't go for cocky. It is a catch 22 and until people become smart enough to figure this out, we are in a loss place.

It's so true. I read so many articles about how when a relationship gets tough it means you are getting exactly what you signed up for. Someone to push you and challenge all your preconceived and faulty views of relationships. And my ex did push me in a good way. Which is why I stayed. And I guess I'll thank her for that.

But the last communication she sent me was an article about why it's okay to fall out of love. And I was thinking "Well yeah, but that should come after you have actually tried to put the mutual work in." The article sounded like, to me, "It's not peaches and cream anymore. So give it up." So many articles out there talk about why it's okay to leave because you feel different and you don't feel the same anymore. And as a therapist I just think "That's not why you should leave! Growth is all about facing those fears ."

Now that's different if there's abuse, or if one partner isn't willing to put the work in. No one should be in a relationship where it's just you trying while the other person keeps doing what they have always done without a committment. And my ex for one couldn't do that. Her personality didn't allow for her to face those fears. Her coping mechanism has always been to get out unless someone was pushing her to do it. I pushed her to do so many things she wanted but was afraid to do. So I have to accept that there is someone in her life who is now pushing her to stay out of a relationship with me.

But I still can't help but feel those feelings that she really is missing out on exactly what she wanted. Which was growth. And maybe she feels like she is growing by staying out of a relationship with me. Maybe she is trying to "love herself for once". There's probably truth to that. But it only came as a realization when she was faced with ":)o I climb this mountain ahead of me which is full of all my fears that I'd have to face and confront about myself, or do I retreat to the safety of my comfort zone where I'm in control." And she made her choice. It's her right to do that. 

[AustenJ]

Roberto-

You hit the nail on the head... .it is never about growth for a pwBPD. They will talk a good game and they will tell us what we want to hear, but when the going gets rough and growth through change is the only way, borderlines tend to follow the easiest path by painting us black or replacing us.

My ex told me numerous times that she was getting into therapy, but never did. Now that she is with my replacement, she has seen a therapist twice (who knows it its the truth?) but she was having difficulty scheduling a 3rd appointment because she had volleyball practice every night... .so already making excuses... .

There will never be growth is they are unwilling to face their inner demons and work hard... .the relationship means absolutely nothing to them, especially when it has outlived it's usefulness for their needs... .it's never about us... .it's only ever about them

[once removed]

healthy relationships do take work.

where most of us erred was taking an unhealthy relationship, and applying unhealthy ways to "make it work". and coping in unhealthy ways in the process.

sometimes two people arent compatible. one persons ideas are very much not the others. usually that is well established by the time a relationship crashes and burns, and its a valid and healthy reason to end a relationship.

And she made her choice. It's her right to do that. 

this is acceptance. its important to acknowledge.

it's never about us... .it's only ever about them

our relationships are over. its no longer about our exes growth, or the relationships growth, but about ours. its all about us now. are we willing to face those demons and grow?

[mar356]

"this is acceptance. its important to acknowledge.

our relationships are over. its no longer about our exes growth, or the relationships growth, but about ours. its all about us now. are we willing to face those demons and grow?"

I concur. Normal people heal, mentally ill won't.  Normal people want to build a relationship and grow the connection stronger.  BPD people want to make the relationship a whack-a-mole game. My two cents.

[once removed]

I concur. Normal people heal, mentally ill won't.  Normal people want to build a relationship and grow the connection stronger.  BPD people want to make the relationship whack-a-mole game. My two cents.

its not about us vs them anymore  

will we face those demons? will we develop a balanced view of how our relationship broke down? will we learn more about ourselves in the process? will we learn skills and tools to take to future, healthy relationships?

[roberto516]

healthy relationships do take work.

where most of us erred was taking an unhealthy relationship, and applying unhealthy ways to "make it work". and coping in unhealthy ways in the process.

sometimes two people arent compatible. one persons ideas are very much not the others. usually that is well established by the time a relationship crashes and burns, and its a valid and healthy reason to end a relationship.

this is acceptance. its important to acknowledge.

our relationships are over. its no longer about our exes growth, or the relationships growth, but about ours. its all about us now. are we willing to face those demons and grow?

You make very valid points. Just to play devil's advocate for the sake of some possible interesting discussion however. I believe that many relationship aren't compatible because people are not communicating correctly. Whether it's a relationship with someone who has a personality disorder or not. And I believe it's far too easy to dismiss the relationship because the arguments aren't being resolved and, as you said, we apply unhealthy ways to make it work. An unhealthy argument can easily make someone say "Well that's it. It's always gonna be this way. I'm out. We just don't match anymore." But I do believe that if two people aren't compatible in every sense and communication is the biggest issue wouldn't it be worthwhile to commit to serious couples counseling to address healthy ways of communication? Now naturally, both parties have to be invested to make it work. But 99% of all my disagreements I have ever had with another human being were because of misinterpreted/lack of communication from myself or the other.

But if both people aren't willing. There is nothing that can be done. But sometimes a lack of "compatibility" could be rationalization because the individual is now being tested in a relationship in ways that they are not willing/able to confront. So they resort to their coping skills which could be retreat/avoid. So they view it as not compatible because it's not something they are used to. Just my two cents. But it all comes down to both people willing to take that leap. Lack of compatibility is when one, or both, partners feels too uncomfortable/afraid to put the work in and figure out what they had in the first place.

[once removed]

But if both people aren't willing. There is nothing that can be done. But sometimes a lack of "compatibility" could be rationalization because the individual is now being tested in a relationship in ways that they are not willing/able to confront. So they resort to their coping skills which could be retreat/avoid. So they view it as not compatible because it's not something they are used to.

rationalization goes both ways (and we tend to use it to soothe our wounds, because we are being tested in ways we are not willing/able to confront). at the end of the day, incompatibility is incompatibility.

letting go of an incompatible or unhealthy relationship is a skill. one that has taken me most of my life to learn.

[mar356]

"But 99% of all my disagreements I have ever had with another human being were because of misinterpreted/lack of communication from myself or the other."

Communication breakdown was common with my unBPDex because of their irrational thinking.  Mine only wanted to communicate important discussions via Text, I think she didn't want me to see her impulsiveness come out too soon. This makes it very frustrating to have an open and honest discussion with them. The sad thing is the ex works in communication correcting young kids speech, maybe that is a good environment for them because the child probably thinks that way too and isn't too stressful. 

[roberto516]

rationalization goes both ways (and we tend to use it to soothe our wounds, because we are being tested in ways we are not willing/able to confront). at the end of the day, incompatibility is incompatibility.

letting go of an incompatible or unhealthy relationship is a skill. one that has taken me most of my life to learn.

I'm not sure that "incompatibility is incompatibility." I have seen many couples pushed to the brink but both were willing to work on it. But if one of them had viewed it as incompatible (As many people around them were telling them) then it would have ended and they would not have come close to gaining so much self-discovery and inner/mutual growth.

Incompatible is a subjective term. So one person could have a good relationship and because their partner snores they could say they aren't compatible. It always reminds me of Seinfeld. Why those people would always find one little "tic" about their partner and decide to cut all ties. I feel we are conditioned to find "the one" which has so many impossible expectations. Because there will be fights/communication breakdown, etc.

I know there's no right or wrong to this. And I want to stress that in this instance I'm not talking about the relationships we have all experienced because they can't work given the people involved. It takes mutual effort. Not something that can be done in this instance.

[mar356]

"I believe that many relationship aren't compatible because people are not communicating correctly. Whether it's a relationship with someone who has a personality disorder or not. And I believe it's far too easy to dismiss the relationship because the arguments aren't being resolved and, as you said, we apply unhealthy ways to make it work."

Just out of curiosity do people with BPD when they sense aggression in communicating with their partner set them off into rage mood? Are they that sensitive?

[once removed]

And I want to stress that in this instance I'm not talking about the relationships we have all experienced because they can't work given the people involved.

but you are, arent you?

in summary, you are saying she viewed you both as incompatible, and you are calling that cowardice, because you were willing to work on the relationship and she wasnt.

you say you can accept that version. it probably feels better. i would gently challenge you that its probably not that simple.

these relationships were generally not one healthy person willing to do all the work with an unhealthy person who wasnt, though thats often how we view it, especially because we have that handy "borderline" label.

you are hurt and angry that she wasnt willing to put the same efforts into the relationship that you were, and you have every right to be. try, in that process, not to dismiss or rationalize her reasons or characterizations of the relationship. they are her perspective, and she was one half of the relationship.

[roberto516]

but you are, arent you?

in summary, you are saying she viewed you both as incompatible, and you are calling that cowardice, because you were willing to work on the relationship and she wasnt.

you say you can accept that version. it probably feels better. i would gently challenge you that its probably not that simple.

these relationships were generally not one healthy person willing to do all the work with an unhealthy person who wasnt, though thats often how we view it, especially because we have that handy "borderline" label.

you are hurt and angry that she wasnt willing to put the same efforts into the relationship that you were, and you have every right to be. try, in that process, not to dismiss or rationalize her reasons or characterizations of the relationship. they are her perspective, and she was one half of the relationship.

Oh believe me if I was I'd be the first to admit it. I am learning so much about myself through this process. I played an unhealthy role. I allowed boundaries to be violated, and when I wasn't able to communicate healthy I continued to bang on the door trying to make my message stick. And I didn't get out sooner.

But in all honesty, I was moving on from my own experience and was exploring curiosity about relationships in general. Maybe not the forum for the discussion. I probably misinterpreted some of your comments about incompatibility as well.