Closure... fianlly... but on my terms

[AustenJ]

As many of you know, I teach with my xBPDgf. She discarded me in early January after a 5 month relationship.  And as with many BPD relationships, there's no real sense of closure from the borderline because they are unable to or it just isn't a real concern for them since that would mean that they would have to show empathy which is nearly impossible for them... .as a friend told me, borderlines are unable to look down to see what is going on around them... .it's always about them. Closure from a pwBPD is like a unicorn... .neither exist.

But I did get a small sliver of closure on my terms when my ex attempted to recylce me this past week. She did not want to recycle me as a lover as she already has a replacement lover... .but she was very adamant about us remaining friends. She has many ex sex partners who have remained as friends. Our work relationship was definitely the most "normal" part of our relationship... .much chatting and kidding around. She wanted to continue that part of the relationship because my replacement was not a teacher and did not share our same work schedule or could really not interact with her during the school day.

When I asked her what this new "friendship" between us would look like, she stated that we could do happy hour with staff and continue to be friendly at work. I pressed her further on the topic of us as just friends as she had already replaced me as a lover... .so why do you want me as a friend?, I texted. After a long pause, she responded, "I don't know." Really? She had been stalking me all week at work, pushing me to be her friend and... .she had no idea what value I would bring to her as a friend?

I would like to get some feedback from others on this curious statement. Does she truly not know what it means to be a friend? Or did she think about how she could still manipulate me as a friend? Or maybe she simply could not process why I wouldn't jump at the chance of being her friend since so many past discarded lovers were? Like unicorns, I am sure I will never know why they have horns.

Earlier in the day I left it with her through text that I would try to be her friend (I had absolutely no intention of this but I could tell she was getting very agitated).
I spoke to my nephew who has much experience with dating pwBPD and he's a cop... .he said... .hey here's your chance for a small sliver of closure ON YOUR TERMS. In a very non-emotional way, a very flat tone, tell her that you have thought about being her friend and that is not what you want. And then end it with the phrase: That is all. He said there is too much emotional baggage in saying something like "Goodbye" or "We are done."

So that is what I did. And then I closed the KIK app on my phone... .did not wait for a response from her. Now I will stick to my guns and never speak to her again or see her again (our jobs intersect very rarely, but occasionally I will see her in the hall or at staff meetings.

So now I feel like I am the one that has gotten my power, my mojo back... .instead of letting her dictate to me how things will work between us. It's a start.

[roberto516]

Oh complicated my friend. I had to deal with the "I don't know answer" throughout this whole mess. And I for one, as a therapist with a messed up mind myself, know why people like this respond with "I don't know". Its because they really don't. They can be very high functioning in terms of intellect. My ex is a therapist, yours is a teacher. Where they struggle is the emotional intellect. You have to remember they deal with emotions like a child. Ask a child the question you posed. They would say the exact same thing wouldn't they?

When I tried to repair the relationship and even during the relationship I'd ask her what she was feeling about what I was talking about with our conflicts and she'd say "I don't know." Even during the breakup when she started to reach out because she was lonely and I pushed her to let me know how she felt she'd say "I don't know." Even as of 2 days ago she said she wants different things in life and she changed. So I asked her outright what is it that she wants out of life now. Her response? "You just need to move on and worry about yourself."

I don't mean to make this about me but I want to relay my own experience. Over 15 months she would only be able to talk about her feelings in regards to how someone else was being mean or rude to her. Or how she was anxious about a situation. But when I pressed her to detail further it was always "I don't know."

When I pressed her on how she felt about me saying I felt a disconnect or I felt upset about this or that it was always "I don't know." I can't fault her. I know understand that if I asked my 6 year old nephew to help me understand how we could feel more connected to one another he would give the same answer. Hope this helped some!

And I don't know if you can relate but she only responded to extreme emotions where she would start talking. So subconsciously I probably became angry that she couldn't answer me normally so I'd start to raise my voice. And that would get her to start talking. But then she'd resent that I got angry. I don't know if this sounds like your ex or not?

And I'm glad you got come closure on your own terms for yourself.

[Dutched]

When I asked her what this new "friendship" between us would look like, she stated that we could do happy hour with staff and continue to be friendly at work. I pressed her further on the topic of us as just friends as she had already replaced me as a lover... .so why do you want me as a friend?, I texted. After a long pause, she responded, "I don't know." Really? She had been stalking me all week at work, pushing me to be her friend and... .she had no idea what value I would bring to her as a friend?

I would like to get some feedback from others on this curious statement. Does she truly not know what it means to be a friend? Or did she think about how she could still manipulate me as a friend? Or maybe she simply could not process why I wouldn't jump at the chance of being her friend since so many past discarded lovers were? Like unicorns, I am sure I will never know why they have horns.

Short answer?   As ‘they’ REALLY do NOT know why.

It is the truth she speaks, a sincere truth of what she feels and emotion in that moment.
There is NO ‘why’, as she really can’t describe that feeling.
How can you expect from an emotional 4 yr. old to describe ‘friendship’.

You know what I was told after 30+ yrs, when I reached out my hand to say goodbye? 
 “but… uhh, uhh, when all is over we will still see each other, don’t we? Going out and having joy like we always did”.
 
Basically pwBPD have a lack of self, depending on other to fill that void.
In order to fill that void, one sees pwBPD that are busy, busy and busy, anything to stop inner emptiness in their emotional rollercoaster. Looking for and even step by step crossing borders.
 
The pwBPD in a r/s are in fact dependant on the SO, emotionally that is to fill voids, needs to feel good, to be loved, to feel whole, complete.
Indeed it takes 2 to tango in a r/s, but 1 is leading, the ‘non’, as the r/s is out of balance.

Been there with statements like ‘live is dull’, ‘I want something else’,  ‘just like others are doing’.
Hours and days to find out what ‘something else’ is.
Exw was not able to define, nor in any way describe what  ‘something else’ was.
Never anything came out, not even when I used examples. 
Why?  As the substitute parent (we…) is expected to provide comfort in order to fill their emptiness. 

So again, it was a most honest answer
As it was a sincere cut / delete breaking up  (emotions overwhelmed her), to avoid more pain.
One of the reasons having a new friend again so soon?
Just to feel loved, to be the good girl, to feel…

In your very short r/s you experienced the worst.
Let me tell you that you dodged a bullet
A bullet that you now holds in your hands, a bullets that gives you all the knowledge you need to avoid and handle toxic people and ( the most positive) to find a healthy and really loving partner.   

[AustenJ]

Roberto and Dutched-

Thank you for your kind words... .I do have to remind myself that they are basically 3-year-olds emotionally... .it's still very baffling for me... .they can don the mask of maturity, but it is only a mask... .

Dutched--it is not lost on me that I did dodge a bullet... .I never really got recycled as a lover which would have been devastating for me... .fortunately, I had several family members who had their own experiences with borderlines who have been very supportive and helpful in pointing out the red flags I refused to see.

[UnforgivenII]

Asking you to remain her friend is just cruel, in my opinion.
Friend with benefits, maybe?
She is callous and heartless. Change school, for God's sake.
By the way, I am a colleague  and our job requires we are 100% working and functioning.
You will never be able to work in the right way with her around. Period. Do it for yourself and for your students.
RUN!

[Dutched]

Asking you to remain her friend is just cruel, in my opinion.
Friend with benefits, maybe?
She is callous and heartless.

Please forgive me to say so. 
For us it is cruel as you say. That is how I would feel that too.

Felt that way too when I reached out my hand to say goodbye and exw said
“but… uhh, uhh, when all is over we will still see each other, don’t we?  Going out and having joy like we always did”.

As ‘can we remain friends”…

Cruel and devastating when you are in so much pain, being hurt by the one you love so deeply.
Sadly, that is very honest as it was her feeling at that moment.
Her honest fear of being abandoned, despite if they have some one else or not.
A kind of losing the attachment (you, me, us ) despite all, is still there.

And that is normal human behaviour, like our brains have to process losing an attachment.
It causes pain, and in a different way of processing, for pwBPD too.   

I understand, I really do, and certainly don’t want to justify that behaviour!
For your sake try to overcome it.
It is important for your wellbeing, important to learn, see, avoiding and handling toxic people

[roberto516]

Please forgive me to say so.  
For us it is cruel as you say. That is how I would feel that too.

Felt that way too when I reached out my hand to say goodbye and exw said
“but… uhh, uhh, when all is over we will still see each other, don’t we?  Going out and having joy like we always did”.

As ‘can we remain friends”…

Cruel and devastating when you are in so much pain, being hurt by the one you love so deeply.
Sadly, that is very honest as it was her feeling at that moment.
Her honest fear of being abandoned, despite if they have some one else or not.
A kind of losing the attachment (you, me, us ) despite all, is still there.

And that is normal human behaviour, like our brains have to process losing an attachment.
It causes pain, and in a different way of processing, for pwBPD too.  

I understand, I really do, and certainly don’t want to justify that behaviour!
For your sake try to overcome it.
It is important for your wellbeing, important to learn, see, avoiding and handling toxic people

True dutch,

They can be so calloused by leaving you devastated and then during a moment of weakness they reach out. But its for selfish reasons. I kept reaching out, and yeah it was selfish because I missed her, but it wasn't to get something out of her specifically with the intention of leaving and staying out of a relationship. I just couldn't believe she didn't want to work on us. Whereas she wanted to reach out, get something from me knowing who I am, with no intention of trying

[Dutched]

True dutch,

They can be so calloused by leaving you devastated and then during a moment of weakness they reach out. But its for selfish reasons. I kept reaching out, and yeah it was selfish because I missed her, but it wasn't to get something out of her specifically with the intention of leaving and staying out of a relationship. I just couldn't believe she didn't want to work on us. Whereas she wanted to reach out, get something from me knowing who I am, with no intention of trying

Roberto516

That sudden honesty, that sudden reaching out after causing so much pain.
That is indeed so difficult to understand.

We try to rationalise it, explain it and trying to understand with our wise mind.
But processing it emotionally is the complex story we share .

[AustenJ]

Dutched-
I agree that was how she honestly felt at the moment... .which makes me feel incredibly sad and compassionate towards her. I know our work relationship was very dear to her as it was to me also... .I easily could have seen myself working many years past retirement age just to teach with her. So in some ways I cannot really fault her for that wish to remain work friends... .I did not see it as cruel on her part, but rather sadly typical to her disorder. In many ways I wish we could maintain a friend relationship, but with BPD I know that's not possible-- it is now up to me to protect my heart and mind. I have to use my mind to create separation, knowing my heart will catch up. I'm not ashamed to say I loved her the best I knew how. However, it is now my time to rise and become healthy and be true to myself.

[stimpy]

she responded, "I don't know." Really? She had been stalking me all week at work, pushing me to be her friend and... .she had no idea what value I would bring to her as a friend?

BPD is an attachment disorder, and their relationships ultimately must not be too hot (fear of engulfment) or too cold (fear of abandonment), so even though she has discarded you, she wants on some level to maintain the attachment, as to lose the attachment would be a form of abandonment. It is not really "friends" that she wants, it is maintaining an attachment, and that is why she can't explain it to you. 

So the reason she can't articulate it, is that she doesn't really want to be friends, she just wants you around and not to lose you, even though she ended things with the discard.

Looking back I had a similar thing, after my expwBPD discarded me, I was stalked for a year, though she never spoke to me, just turned up at places she knew I'd be. So she was maintaining the attachment, without anything too complicated like a real friendship or a real relationship. Not too hot, and not too cold.

It is irrational, and for me bewildering and very hurtful.

But now I get it.

In the end I asked her to stay away from me, and slowly she did, until she finally disappeared a few months ago.

[sad but wiser]

Good discussion!  Complicated, I am really sorry you are in this situation!  The ease and passion a BPD person can speak with on subjects of mutual interest makes them very enticing.  That said, people are not exactly individuals to a person with BPD.  People are objects.  They live alone in their universe.  They often expect a conversation to go a certain way, then get very upset when it deviates from their expectations.  Many people with BPD also hoard.  They just cannot let go of objects.   So, if you are an object, she will not want to let go.  This also affirms that she is "nice" and the close relationship just "didn't work out."

[heartandwhole]

So in some ways I cannot really fault her for that wish to remain work friends... .I did not see it as cruel on her part, but rather sadly typical to her disorder. In many ways I wish we could maintain a friend relationship, but with BPD I know that's not possible-- it is now up to me to protect my heart and mind. I have to use my mind to create separation, knowing my heart will catch up. I'm not ashamed to say I loved her the best I knew how. However, it is now my time to rise and become healthy and be true to myself.

complicated, this sounds like a healthy step forward. I commend you for putting yourself first, while not losing compassion for what your ex is likely going through if she has BPD/traits.

I've found that I can wish the best, and even have warm feelings for pwBPD from afar. He says he would like something else (friendship, contact), but that is not what is best for me.

heartandwhole

[FSTL]

... .she wants on some level to maintain the attachment, as to lose the attachment would be a form of abandonment.

It is not really "friends" that she wants, it is maintaining an attachment, and that is why she can't explain it to you.  

So the reason she can't articulate it, is that she doesn't really want to be friends, she just wants you around and not to lose you, even though she ended things with the discard.

Looking back I had a similar thing, after my expwBPD discarded me, ... .just turned up at places she knew I'd be. So she was maintaining the attachment, without anything too complicated like a real friendship or a real relationship. Not too hot, and not too cold.

In the end I asked her to stay away from me, and slowly she did, until she finally disappeared a few months ago.

Very similar to my experience.

Mine would discard me, and then when it dawned on her what that meant, we would then end up in bed together... .sometimes within an hour, sometimes the next day. She said to me "we always say something and then do something else". One time after dumping me, she told me she hoped to "have sex again with me again one day" and also offered me FWB or casual several times after breaking up.

One time she told me we had a connection and she wanted to stay friends... .I said no.

In all cases she either came back full time (when she realised I would be seeing other people as well or she needed my emotional support) or she couldn't reciprocate anything and I told her I wasn't interested any more... .and then she'd come back.

She often showed up (I described it as "dangling herself" where she knew I would be. I asked her why she contacted me at Christmas after we had agreed not to speak - she initially said "so you would know I was thinking of you" and then added "I don't know tbh". She could never explain her feelings or why she did things. She was often "confused".

Like you, I finally sat down with her about a month ago and told her I wanted boundaries and thought we should stay apart from one another. After a false start (the next day) she has stayed away, in part because she has been out of the country. But no messages. Tomorrow is a big day as she is in the office for the first time in the last month... .

It's amazing how similar their bizarre behaviour is.

[stimpy]

In all cases she either came back full time (when she realised I would be seeing other people as well or she needed my emotional support) or she couldn't reciprocate anything and I told her I wasn't interested any more... .and then she'd come back.

My exact same experience and... .

She often showed up (I described it as "dangling herself" where she knew I would be.

also my exact same experience.

And in a way, I feel sorry for her, no matter how much pain and anguish she has caused me.

I have come to realise two things.  The first is that I never really knew who she was, I got so caught up in the drama and the crisis of it all, that in truth I never got to know her properly. And that was made much more difficult as her personality shifted so fast and so frequently.

The other thing I've come to realise is that I think she has had a very difficult life, one that I don't envy. To be in her shoes, to be adult and yet be unable to trust your own emotions must be genuinely scary. We use our emotions to help guide us through life's ups and downs and yet I'm pretty sure that her's have guided her to do the wrong thing, in all sorts of different ways. It must be a nightmare.

But one that I can't fix.