How long before symptoms show?

[jinglebells1989]

I know that not all BPDs rage and cut themselves. But how long can it take before symptoms start to show if you're in a relationship with someone who has BPD? Could it be months or years? Is it only once they feel you're getting too close to them? How long can people with BPD hid this from other people? I've reach a few stories on here about pwBPD who after years suddenly abandon their partners when there were no previous warning signs or very few. Is this common/not common?

[mar356]

"I know that not all BPDs rage and cut themselves. But how long can it take before symptoms start to show if you're in a relationship with someone who has BPD? Could it be months or years? Is it only once they feel you're getting too close to them? How long can people with BPD hid this from other people? I've reach a few stories on here about pwBPD who after years suddenly abandon their partners when there were no previous warning signs or very few. Is this common/not common?"

They tend to be on their best behavior early on. There are still subtle signs of BPD right away you maybe able to sense.  A lot of times you over look them early in the relationship which is fair.  Early signs may be hyper-sensitive, impulsive behavior or over reactions.  They think in terms of all or nothing... .Once they sense you're close emotionally they will push you away and devalue.  They sense if you're about to leave them they will also push you away... .

[ynwa]

Every BPD and trained person reacts and acts differently.  Like Mar356 many times it is hidden, ignored or just missed when they don start to appear.

What is very common is the closer you are to them, the more they appear. In many cases, friends and co-workers, casual acquaintances will have little to no idea. People who are trying to explain to others the way they are being treated, many are baffled how such a person can act in such ways.

[vortex of confusion]

Also, I think it is harder to spot a waif/hermit than the more out loud type. Some times, it takes a major stressor for things to appear. Ex did NOT do well under pressure or during times of stress. With each big stress event we endured, it seemed like he got a little bit worse. After his dad passed away, it seemed like he became a totally different person.

[jinglebells1989]

That's what baffled me about what happened with this girl I dated.

For a solid year she appeared normal. She warned me that she had a temper, although I never saw it come out around me. She made it sound like she could be a horrible person to people, in fact most of the stories she talked about involved her being mean to others but she was so sweat to me. Other than that there was one time in the first couple months we were dating where we went to a baseball game together and she was just quiet the whole time. It really through me off.

But after the year, when I started trying to push for more of a serious commitment, i.e. when I became emotionally invested in her and started acted like I really cared came the crazy behavior. It made no sense and left me absolutely reeling.

[UnforgivenII]

Mine showed them very early on, two months into the relationship.
Terrible rages, throwing things etc

[Sadly]

Mine was about 2 months also. Loving, tactile happy person who adored me turning rapidly into a dark silent stranger who didn't want to touch or be touched and suddenly flew into a manic rage thinking I may have been wearing stockings for another man? No one in particular just any man. Then began a the most confusing bewildering saddest time of my life.
X

[Careca9]

Also, I think it is harder to spot a waif/hermit than the more out loud type. Some times, it takes a major stressor for things to appear. Ex did NOT do well under pressure or during times of stress. With each big stress event we endured, it seemed like he got a little bit worse. After his dad passed away, it seemed like he became a totally different person.

for my ex i never had any noticeable signs until after being finished and then it all came out. only a few mentions that she had really bad mood swings but id never seen any or had any idea it would be quite like it was. literally she was the best g/f possible, friendly, happy, overly affectionate and happy to do anything as a couple. it was only after we booked a holiday and had xmas in the horizon she went silent out of the blue and then the anger and silent treatment came. as most people dont know about BPD you would not spot the small signs or have any clue. most of her friends have no idea either

[daverisk]

It is an interesting question, and one that I ponder myself.  Other than being attracted to a man 22 years older than herself, my wife appeared/acted/reacted "normally" for well over a year.  When I met her family the age difference made sense due to the fact that most of the stable relationships in her family were those with males older than females by quite a bit.

We courted for a year... .she seemed "normal"... .we married... .and I saw the first sign I didn't recognize... .it wasn't until several years into our relationship that I knew something was amiss... .and not until November/December... .when she went into a spiral... .that I really knew something was REALLY wrong... .after almost nine years of marriage.

[jinglebells1989]

It is an interesting question, and one that I ponder myself.  Other than being attracted to a man 22 years older than herself, my wife appeared/acted/reacted "normally" for well over a year.  When I met her family the age difference made sense due to the fact that most of the stable relationships in her family were those with males older than females by quite a bit.

We courted for a year... .she seemed "normal"... .we married... .and I saw the first sign I didn't recognize... .it wasn't until several years into our relationship that I knew something was amiss... .and not until November/December... .when she went into a spiral... .that I really knew something was REALLY wrong... .after almost nine years of marriage.

What was it exactly you saw happen after you got married that made you realize something was off? Also, was she ever officially diagnosed?

[Duped 1]

Within the first couple of months. She raged and put me down when asking about my history of intimacy right away. It only got worse from there.

[Pretty Woman]

Symptoms or red flags? My ex told me her entire sexual (crazy sexual) history on our first date. She also disclosed all her abusive exes she had RO's on.

I should have ran and that was day 1.

I would say the push-pull started month two and from there every three months there was a huge blow up and she'd change her number and look for someone new. Our first blow up she got mad I wasn't supportive of our incoming president. She got very hostile and called me nasty names. It got worse and worse. It was insane. It ended with me telling her to leave and that I was not going to tolerate her calling me names for no reason.

She bolted from my house screaming I wasn't getting my key back. I remember standing on my porch saying, "What the heck was that?" an hour later she came back sobbing that she was abused by her father and she didn't know why she acted the way she did.

All of this sounds nuts, right? Then, I thought I could HELP her. I should have trusted my gut instinct which was right and never let her back after that incident. Instead I let her break boundaries and went through three years of hell, three years I take responsibility for. I knew better.

[Duped 1]

Within the first couple of months. She raged and put me down when asking about my history of intimacy right away. It only got worse from there.

She screamed and yelled and called me a pig at about the 10 week mark when at my house. I told her to get the F out. I should have never looked back at that point and went NC right then and there.

[kentavr3]

Many books that I read, said about 3 moths +-

[JaxWest]

My ex BPD showed early on... .I went on like 3 official dates (knew her for a couple of months), then she started becoming extremely controlling... .every detail about me... .  Most of the others did not know what was going on though. She hid it well from co-workers, friends, and etc. Which was part of my struggle. Other people didn't notice it, so it became easier to rationalize. Don't do that! I don't know if that is the average approach, but it appears they usually blend in.

[cubicinch]

mine could really only hide it for less than a few months. Because we lived a few hours drive apart, the insecurity cracks appeared very quickly. Then when I did spend any time with her, the personality would come out in the typical ways we all know. As a sane individual, you realise things aren't right, so as soon as you start to question it, their back is against the wall, and it wont last too much longer. They will just keep doing this, unless they find someone who will take all the flack and co depend.

[daverisk]

Jinglebells,

The first thing that seemed "off" to me was our wedding night.  They have a tradition similar to chivalry here in the Czech Republic... .friends of the bride "kidnap" her and take her to a few pubs and the groom and his friends have to go find her... .generally... .everyone knows where everyone else is going... .usually to a pub that has special meaning to the couple.  The groom buys the house a drink, then they take off to finish the wedding party or to do adult things.

My wife and I considered doing this... .but I didn't speak enough Czech to really make it work... .and then my one American friend that was at my wedding got REALLY drunk... .so my wife decided it was a good idea to take my 18 year old daughter and my friend's 17 year old daughter and go to a dance club... .like the chivalry... .only I wasn't going to join them.  This is around 11 PM... .I get my friend settled in... .and around 1 AM start texting my wife to come home... .I want to do the adult things on my wedding night... .it was after 2:30 before she got back to our hotel... .it was our first argument.  I chalked it up to the excitement of the wedding night.

She also became less affectionate and wanted less sex a few months after that... .which I attributed to her pregnancy... .but sex went from every other day (sometimes every day) to once a week or so if I was lucky.  :)uring her second pregnancy I went 3 months without making love to my wife... .again... .attributing this to her pregnancy and the emotional trauma of moving from Europe to the US.  

In Germany... .a few months after the birth of our daughter... .I found the first message with a guy... .she forgot to close her chat app on the computer... .it was innocuous enough... .something about "hey you're cute... .are you married"  her reply, "yes, so we cannot do what we want."  Innocent enough... .but the messages get worse and worse with other guys as time progresses.

While we still lived in Europe, when we visited the Czech Republic she would go to clubs with her friends until 4 or 5 am while I stayed at grandma's apartment with the kids... .didn't think much of it then... .just reconnecting with friends... .

more texting... .meeting at least two of the guys she was texting... .the affair she admits to... .discovering during her fourth pregnancy that she had chlamydia... .(I was after my last divorce... .and she was the only one I was with after the divorce... .sure... .it's POSSIBLE that during the first three pregnancies they doctor and hospital didn't test for chlamydia... .but highly unlikely.  Her lies, not sharing the truth... .affection falling with few rises... .

Now this thing with her cousin... .which is in my "where do I begin" post.

She isn't officially diagnosed yet... .my sister... .a psychologist... .did  forensic dx.  Her counselor has actually suggest Dissociative Identity Disorder as a possibility... .it had something to do with my wife relating a story about me, her, and her cousin/lover a few weeks ago and then again last week that made her think that's a possibility.  I've seen DID... .actually... .my immediate ex wife of 11 years was officially dx with DID... .I don't see the same type of thing in current wife.  I believe there is some disassociation... .but I believe it's connected to the BPD rather than an actual instance of DID (which is still a pretty controversial dx in the mental world).  Her therapist has referred her to a psychiatrist... .we'll know more when the evaluation occurs... .but being in a country of socialized medicine... .it may be a while.

[Free1]

We dated for 4 years and were married for 4 years. She has aspects of all 4 types, Waif, Hermit, Queen, and Witch.  Her main type is where she appears to be the sweetest, kindest, and most loving person.  This is what she portrays in public, at work, and as a consumer.  We would run into people she knew and they would always have the utmost praise and admiration for her being the most wonderful woman and how fortunate I was to be with her.  She had no negativity towards anyone --except her first husband, the demon, and her first adopted son.  She was focused on me being the most wonderful person ever and I bought into her portrayal, completely.  Her 2nd and 3rd husband, married twice, was just very bizarre and was my first intimate exposure to NPD.

So, the first 4 years there were minor things that did not make sense, but it was just a relationship of weekends and not spent with her kids: the golden child at 14 years old and the scape goat at 16 years old.  The first was early on for Christmas dinner at her ex-husbands home.  The NPD went into a long rendition of their marital problems being all his fault with his ex and children confirming it all with nods and smiles--super weird, it still gives me chills.  The second was that I decided to stay home Friday night after a long week at work.  She called after having two beers, a lot for her, and was not understanding and angry.  I didn't feel she should be angry about it and was told in that she was not angry, when she clearly was.  It was really weird, but attributed it to the alcohol.  There were a few other things that were off, but I attributed it to my own sensitivity to her NPDex and the GC. 
The first real deal was a day trip to and Island for a hike with her Ex and his wife, the GC and his GF, which ended with her going off on me, for an infraction she perceived, in front of everyone just 6 months into our marriage. It was further aggravated when I told her I needed and expected an apology, which never came. Things went downhill and I clearly saw a huge problem, but my codependency really kicked in.  I was always trying to get that initial adoration back.  However, I really started to pay attention and say what was on my mind, which further aggravated the illogical incidences.   

So, I'd say it really depends on the individual with BPD, because it's in degrees from low to high.  My wife really needed to be perceived as wonderful, except to those close to her and even then their perceptions are in a fog.
My wife is very adept at concealing her emotions, especially the negative, even from herself.  I'm not even sure if she knows she has BPD.

I also think that it depends on their significant other.  I'm codependent and didn't figure it out until after we were 3 months into the divorce, because I saw GC in a post on NPD trying to understand who would want a relationship with an NPD.  In fact, a friend I talked to before I was married said that my wife was BPD, but when I read the descriptive about the mood swings I thought my friend was way off track and was very put off.

Now that I'm aware I feel safer, because I don't think they are that hard to spot when you know what to look for.  I do agree that the closer you get to an intimate relationship the more pronounced the BPD behavior becomes.

[IamGrey]

A couple of 'off' moments during the first few months, then a major traumatizing incident after 7 months. That was when I should have run but decided to be loyal - that's ironic in itself considering she probably cheating throughout.

She never got that bad again but my punishment for sticking around was a slow, painful transgression into a hopeless, depressed mess - and with that, she was gone - once she'd secured her new target of course.

But looking back and after educating myself on the disorder, the symptoms were there from Day 1. I was just utterly oblivious to PD's.

[g2outfitter]

for my ex i never had any noticeable signs until after being finished and then it all came out. only a few mentions that she had really bad mood swings but id never seen any or had any idea it would be quite like it was. literally she was the best g/f possible, friendly, happy, overly affectionate and happy to do anything as a couple. it was only after we booked a holiday and had xmas in the horizon she went silent out of the blue and then the anger and silent treatment came. as most people dont know about BPD you would not spot the small signs or have any clue. most of her friends have no idea either

My situation was similar in that she never exhibited to me any real crazy behavior.  Yes, unwarranted jealousy but that kind of made me feel good, .  My biggest problem was two fold... .I overlooked the signs because most of them were pretty much mild and I can overlook quite a bit in a relationship and secondly, I had no idea what BPD was until after she broke up with me - completely out of the blue.  Then I didn't know who I was dealing with... .I would have NEVER dreamed my sweetheart of two years could ever act this way towards me.  Completely black hearted.  I absolutely had no idea who she was.  Threatening me with restraining order and suing me for slander.  I did nothing to this woman and most certainly never threatened her.

Three months later when she wants me back she is right back to being the sweetheart I thought she was.  We got back together then six months later... .she breaks it off again and the demon shows up once more to treat me as if I was absolutely NOTHING to her, again.  It is an unbelievable transformation that I really can't fathom.  It is a defense mechanism that I would have never dreamed could exist in a fellow human being.  It's frightening.

[abraxus]

For a solid year she appeared normal. She warned me that she had a temper, although I never saw it come out around me. She made it sound like she could be a horrible person to people, in fact most of the stories she talked about involved her being mean to others but she was so sweat to me. Other than that there was one time in the first couple months we were dating where we went to a baseball game together and she was just quiet the whole time. It really through me off.

Always pay attention to how someone treats others, and especially when they tell you about it. They're revealing a side of themselves that exists, and it's only a matter of time before you're on the receiving end. Can't say she didn't warn you.

But after the year, when I started trying to push for more of a serious commitment, i.e. when I became emotionally invested in her and started acted like I really cared came the crazy behavior. It made no sense and left me absolutely reeling.

Don't worry too much about how long it takes to show, or whether it's diagnosed. Crazy is crazy, whether it has a certificate to prove it or not, and how long it takes to show can depend on how soon it's triggered.

My personal belief is never to push for commitment, and leave that to other person. If they want it they'll push for it, and if they don't they'll pull away if you express it, and that holds true whether BPD or not. BPD's are much worse though, they want commitment, but then get scared when it presents itself, and have no way of expressing that fear other than acting crazy and pulling away. They also seem to hate decisions, and so you can kind of manage things by going with the flow, or even being decisive and taking the lead on some things but, the minute you ask them to make one, it puts them on the spot and they have a bit of a meltdown.

[g2outfitter]

Actually... .now that I know what BPD is - she showed signs within the first few weeks.  Of course, this was the idolization period so I had no objections, I was along for the amazing ride.  I was just clueless about the disorder.

[IamGrey]

My personal belief is never to push for commitment, and leave that to other person. If they want it they'll push for it, and if they don't they'll pull away if you express it, and that holds true whether BPD or not. BPD's are much worse though, they want commitment, but then get scared when it presents itself, and have no way of expressing that fear other than acting crazy and pulling away.

My ex pushed and pushed for me to propose. I finally did after around 14 months. Then she pushed even more for marriage but I was nowhere near ready so pulled back.
During the final two months she finally stopped mentioning it, and then came the slow devaluation. I now know she just loves the idea of being married. She's due to marry in 2 months to the replacement and I honestly think she'll go through with it - and then it will all go pear shaped.

What's telling is that as much as she wanted us to get married, there was little talk of us growing old together. In fact she said she'd end up as a crazed cat lady.

[cubicinch]

Always pay attention to how someone treats others, and especially when they tell you about it. They're revealing a side of themselves that exists, and it's only a matter of time before you're on the receiving end. Can't say she didn't warn you.

Don't worry too much about how long it takes to show, or whether it's diagnosed. Crazy is crazy, whether it has a certificate to prove it or not, and how long it takes to show can depend on how soon it's triggered.

My personal belief is never to push for commitment, and leave that to other person. If they want it they'll push for it, and if they don't they'll pull away if you express it, and that holds true whether BPD or not. BPD's are much worse though, they want commitment, but then get scared when it presents itself, and have no way of expressing that fear other than acting crazy and pulling away. They also seem to hate decisions, and so you can kind of manage things by going with the flow, or even being decisive and taking the lead on some things but, the minute you ask them to make one, it puts them on the spot and they have a bit of a meltdown.

I'm afraid this is all true of my experience. I saw how she treated people including her own family, and I never acted on those red flags. And exactly right, she talked a load of crap, but come to make a decision or actually carry out any of what she idealised, then it never happens. Like has been said, another crazy cat woman in the making, in fact she's really already there, with three dogs as well as cats.

[vortex of confusion]

Always pay attention to how someone treats others, and especially when they tell you about it. They're revealing a side of themselves that exists, and it's only a matter of time before you're on the receiving end. Can't say she didn't warn you.

Oh man, this sparks a memory that I had long forgotten. I don't even think we were dating at the time. We worked at the same place and he called one of our coworkers a name (racial slur). When the coworker found out that I had started dating ex, he was not very happy about it because of how ex had treated him and called him names. The coworker was a bit annoying at times yet had been nice to me during all of my years working with him. Wow, that was the first red flag that I had completely forgotten about.

[rosesarered777]

During the final two months she finally stopped mentioning it, and then came the slow devaluation. I now know she just loves the idea of being married. She's due to marry in 2 months to the replacement and I honestly think she'll go through with it - and then it will all go pear shaped.

What's telling is that as much as she wanted us to get married, there was little talk of us growing old together. In fact she said she'd end up as a crazed cat lady.

This is very interesting for me. She used to say I wasn't 'good enough', she felt like marrying me 'would be settling', but loved it when I gave her a super-nice engagement ring (worth $1000+ at the time; I kept it and it's probably worth $1500+ now!). She seduced me by saying 'if you make love to me like that, then we are definitely forever!' amongst other lines talking about 'forever' and 'growing old'.

Now I see the same cycle repeating with the rebound guy after she separated! She even has a picture up as her Facebook cover saying,'Grow Old With Me' (ish)! It's total crazy-crazy!

When I gave her the engagement ring, she quickly dumped me within two weeks. So I find it funny that she seems to be stable last I checked with him moving closer. Will she get triggered before a wedding or feel too enmeshed soon? I thought the cycles would be similar... .?

I realized tonight that she might be 'in love' because he spends lavishly on her. That could be why they haven't hit a wall yet... .?

[bus boy]

HI jinglebells1989, I noticed early on, one day she stopped talking to me, something than and there told my to hit the road but I didn't and the nightmare began. Xw got worse after we moved in, worse yet after we married and was something close the revelations out of the bible after she got pregnant. All of this took a total of 3 years. The closer we got the worse she got. We were only married a year, Xw cried uncontrollably when she got pregnant and I knew it was the end for us. Xw is not officially diagnosed but in an assessment by a forensic psychologist i was diagnosed as codependent and Xw was unofficially diagnosed with having a personality disorder. It was worded in such a way that very strongly suggested Xw has a disorder and " would carry this disorder into any of her future r/s's. So the first 9 months were ok, we moved in with each other it got worse, I figured marriage would fix it, it got worse yet and continued to get worse, a total time line of 3 years. Plus 8 years after she left we kept up a r/s where she changed gears from very openly being verbally abusive to very covert sly emotional abuse to June 2015 when she very cruel and cold hearted, discarded me and has treated me like a dog ever since.

[GoldenRoole]

Mine started pretty early, like in two weeks.  It was an LDR.  A few red flag examples:

1) The first time we hung out in his city, he raged in the middle of the street because I changed my mind about two restaurants because they were both too crowded. After this public blowup, he began weeping like a little 5-year old.  In fact, he often wept often over insignificant disagreements.  He's 33.

2) Raged because he saw I was too slow returning his text on WhatsApp.  (He saw I was "online", which, actually, the app was open on my phone but my phone was in my pocket--had no idea he was trying to reach me). This was only after a mere 15 mins of him texting.

3) EXTREMELY clingy and needy by week 3 and thereafter. Texting 20 times a day and started mentioning the idea of getting married next year.

4) Raged over insignificant things (for example, me giggling in the middle of some story he was telling, or me "not remembering" micro details of some brief story he told me. To him, it showed I wasn't giving him my 100% attention).

5) Again, it was an LDR, so he often demanded I send smartphone pics of places I "claimed" to be at such as the bank, gym, or grocery store. -- He had this odd suspicion that I was always lying about my whereabouts and the smallest things. Things there would be no reason to lie about (yes, I know, projection).

6) Upon visiting me hacked into my phone to find evidence of any cheating (huge physical altercation ensued when he found something he didn't like). 

7) He NEVERRRR  apologized for anything.  In fact, he had a penchant for turning tables onto me and putting all blame on my lap.

8) He subtly began saying bad things about some of my friends whom he never met. Things like, "they don't care anything about you" or "why do you even give him/her the time of day."  I think this was his early way of trying to isolate me.

and, this especially... .

9) He had a strange obsession with the idea of me "leaving him".  (We'd be on the phone for 3 hours and when I'd need to get ready for work, he'd always whine, "No! Don't leeeeave me!).  I always thought he was joking--he wasn't.

These behaviors, were odd and caused me to start googling all day.   And, voila,  "Borderline Personality Disorder" always kept coming up.  I read just about every book and website imaginable (which also brought me here), and ALL of his behaviors seemed incredibly classic.  When I started discreetly probing about some of the things in his past, sure enough, he mentioned being suicidal a few years prior, mentioned "self harming", and mentioned his "anger issues" and "impusivity." Despite all of this, he needed constant reassurance that I "wouldn't leave, no matter what," and to promise that I'd "never give up on him" like so many others had. He was also a pathological liar (didn't realize until months later), and promiscuous, despite his constant suspicions about me.

My undiagnosed exBPD, was high functioning and refused to seek help, met just about every last criterion on the DSM. Bullseye to the nth power. Textbook even.  What's funny, he has a Masters in psychology and is a high school counselor for special needs teens. He swears he has no issues aside from anger. I mentioned the possibility of him having BPD.  He turned it back on me and said I'm the one with the severe issues.

So, yes, depending on the person, the symptoms can present early and severely.

[Aesir]

Now that I think of it I saw signs early on but I just chalked it up to being sheltered. We were young adults and both still had a lot of growing up to do.  As time went on I saw more of her peculiar character traits, the  erupt break ups ,rages and verbal abuse started further down the road.

[FSTL]

When I gave her the engagement ring, she quickly dumped me within two weeks. So I find it funny that she seems to be stable last I checked with him moving closer. Will she get triggered before a wedding or feel too enmeshed soon? I thought the cycles would be similar... .?

I realized tonight that she might be 'in love' because he spends lavishly on her. That could be why they haven't hit a wall yet... .?

Perhaps you should consider why you're asking this? You don't control what she does, but you do control how you react. Can you let go and move on.

Easier said than done... .I struggle sometimes and I do wonder what is going on with my BPDx, but then I quickly remember I don't want to be with her because she hasn't changed and I don't want to board the Crazy Train again. So why would I care what she is doing?

I accept my role in the downfall of our relationship, but I also accept she is BPD and I don't value myself based upon how her future relationships unfold.

It's quite possible that he has very unhealthy behaviour that works better for a BPD, eg more push-pull which keeps her in there, or more co-dependant and malleable. What is certain, though, is that she is still BPD and will eventually let the mask fall and this time it won't be your problem.