I dumped him... but it feels like it was him who dumped me. Full force ST

[UnforgivenII]

It is funny but sad all the same.
I dumped him after the last horrific disrespectful behaviour. He did it on purpose, it seemed. And while doing it, he was looking at me with a happy look. He even said it. "I know it hurts you, but I do it the same".

I know it hurts you, but I do it the same.

These words made me leave. I read ALL the books, learned ALL the tools, tried all my best.
But those words... .hurt me beyond measure. I had to leave.

But the strange thing is... .it sounds like it was him dumping me. He did not react at all. He did not try to reach out.
I just received an odd Facebook friend request by the most recent of his female best friends. Argh. I blocked him and her too.
They should try to avoid abandonment, right? Well, mine did not. He has ASPD traits too. He used   to tell me : I hate everyone but I chose you ( and lots of others, apparently)

Now he is in full force silent treatment and I am NC.

Why does it feel it was him who dumped me?

[Grey Kitty]

Breakups are tough.

Whether you are the one who is dumped, or whether you are the one who pulls the plug.

  It is pretty normal to feel horrible about it, just as bad even though you did the dumping.

It might be better to say to yourself "When I heard that, I knew that the right choice for myself was to leave" instead of "... .I had to leave".

... .and you are completely rejected. That is much of the pain of a breakup. That's one thing that really hurts. 

[Pretty Woman]

It feels this way because you were more sincerely vested in the relationship. You loved him and to him you were a need. He needed you to feel complete.

I applaud you for NOT allowing that abuse. You erected a boundary and are sticking to it. You have done something many of us have tried to do and failed, sometimes multiple times.

Sometimes once a BPD has been called out they give up. If they know they cannot manipulate you they find someone else.

That doesn't mean they LOVE that next person. It is just someone for them to control, isolate and destroy.

You are doing it right and I am proud of you for your courage. NO one should treat you poorly. It is not right and you do not deserve that.

Ever.

[UnforgivenII]

I feel I am not worth the effort to try to save the relationship. Many do. Why am I not worth? Did I mean nothing to him?

I am so sad today.

[joeramabeme]

I feel I am not worth the effort to try to save the relationship. Many do. Why am I not worth? Did I mean nothing to him?

I am so sad today.

Hi Unforgiven

I think it feels like he is dumping you because he is pushing you away and sounds like he is well aware of that pattern and pretty much dared you to call him on it.  Secretly, he wishes you did have that level of emotional capability to push him off the position of feeling unlovable, at least that is how I read his challenge.

As far as your "worth"; never let someone else determine your self-worth, else it is not self-worth you are measuring yourself by.  pwBPD will miror back at you their internal feelings.  His actions are about him, not you.  Yours/Ours struggle is to see that clearly, not an easy thing to do.

This is the first post of yours I have read and I already see an insightful and sensitive person.  Do you see that too?  Can you keep replacing the thoughts you are having with that truth?

JRB

[caughtnreleased]

I feel I am not worth the effort to try to save the relationship. Many do. Why am I not worth? Did I mean nothing to him?

I am so sad today.

Unforgiven, I understand exactly how you feel. yes we feel rejected - because at the end of the day they meant something, they meant a lot to us. Yes they did. But here is what I realized about my own BPDex after he kept trying to sleep with me while he had moved on with the replacement who he told me had my name, my mixed ethnic background but SHE loved him: we are like a hit of drugs to them. All humans are the same to them - a cheap hit. And that is how they treat all of us. She gives him the "security and stability" hit - except that leaves him desperately bored, stagnant and depressed, so he calls me to get his hit of "excitement" - luckily I didn't play.

But at the end of the day both the replacement and I are getting treated the same - it's just one of us is heroine and the other is cocaine, or mdma, or whatever.  She is left thinking: "Why does he have to go to someone else to have amazing, mind blowing passionate sex" and I'm left thinking "Why does he treat me like a cheap prostitute and not want to be with me."  Everyone loses. I want to assure you of this. There are no winners. Everyone is sad, and unhappy when we seek validation and love from a person with BPD.

[vortex of confusion]

I wanted to offer you a virtual hug. 

I know the pain you feel all too well. The end of my relationship was pretty much the same way. He and I had been back and forth for quite a while. At one point, we were being snippy with each other and he said, "I can't wait to leave." And, he said it in front of the kids. They were visibly upset and hurt. The next day, I told him to leave. He left and hasn't been back. I kicked him out and he reminds me of that from time to time. I can't go NC because of the kids.

The truth is that he abandoned me and rejected me long before I kicked him out. He called me names in front of the kids and did all sort of horrible things to me. I stayed and took it because I didn't want to be the one to leave him. I didn't want to be the one that broke up our home. At the end of the day, I kicked him out because I could no longer take the stuff he was saying and doing.

The funny thing is that it wouldn't have taken much for him to worm his way back in after he left. All he would have had to do was make a little bit of effort. Instead of making any kind of effort, he found another woman and moved in with a registered sex offender and then told me he had no other choice. The kids and I were not worth his time or effort. He would rather walk away with his tail between his legs than try to do something different.

Pat yourself on the back! I know how painful it is to be the one doing the dumping. I have to remind myself all the time that I did what I needed to do for my sanity. He was too chicken to leave or do anything different. There are times when I think he pushed me as far as he did because he didn't want to be with me and didn't want to be a part of the family but was too afraid to say or do anything about it. So, he pushed me until I couldn't take any more. That way, he got to be the victim and he got to tell people that I am the one that kicked him out and refused to work on our marriage or keep our family in tact. He gets to be the good boy and I get to be the b***h.

[UnforgivenII]

Hi Unforgiven

I think it feels like he is dumping you because he is pushing you away and sounds like he is well aware of that pattern and pretty much dared you to call him on it.  Secretly, he wishes you did have that level of emotional capability to push him off the position of feeling unlovable, at least that is how I read his challenge.



JRB

Could you please explain it better,   joeramabeme ?

Thank you for your words.

[Grey Kitty]

Not speaking for joe, but I get what he's talking about:

This guy's been pushing you away. Rejecting you. For a long time, in many ways, subtle, overt, and inbetween. This last one was HUGE and overt. He's been doing things to hurt you.

Directly Dumping you would simply be a slightly bigger rejection. (And if he did, he would say HORRID things blaming you for all of it, which would make it hurt more!)

And inside, he's insecure, he feels unlovable, and he's trying to "protect himself" by rejecting you first, so you don't have a chance to reject him. Probably while hoping that you will climb over this "test" and prove you love him anyways, somehow feeling that it can overcome/overpower how unlovable he feels.

Completely irrational. Completely destructive. And he cannot stop himself from doing more of it, again, and again... .until you pull the plug, which means he cannot do it with you next time.

[Stripey77]

I think I can have a stab at explaining what Joe meant; these days I am (for the most part) in a far stronger place than I was this time last year, and in a position of far greater understanding. My ex is still in my life (we are not together) and things are far, far more pleasant than they have been. Anyone who remembers my story from last year will know that I was subjected to not one, but two, lengthy extended ST where I was ghosted to the point of being barged past as if I were invisible... .and we live in a very tiny town.  It was without a doubt one of the most painful years of my life. As recently as today, he now walks past my work place and looks in to see if I'm there and give me a smile and a wave. On a good day, I get a chat... .  We've come a long way and I still miss him all of the time, and I still love him, but I would far rather be doing that from a position of polite and friendly distance than what has gone before.

Anyway, during this long journey to a sort of equilibrium that we have now, I have talked a lot in particular to a friend of mine who is a matron on a mental health ward, whose patients have PDs. She has told me many times, that when he is opening up to me, talking to me, (so I get the opportunity to have his ear in return) it is important that I tell him when he has hurt me. Pull him up on the negative things he does... .not give them attention so to speak, but to tell him, in plain language, the effect that those behaviours have on me.  The response I had (as recently as this weekend just gone) has been fascinating. It was clear as day that he was embarassed, wrong footed, a little sheepish, a little shy... .as he can be. Mr. Nasty with his sadistic emotionally selfish self, standing there, like a little boy, allowing me to tell him off. And he not only listened, he tried to reason with me, tell me that his actions shouldn't hurt me. Well, they do, I told him. Deep down, he knows this, but it does him (and me most definitely) good to be told. His actions have consequences. He is responsible for those consequences.

You must remember that your ex, mine, all of them, have at some point been emotionally stunted. Someone, somewhere let them down or hurt them and they suffered an arrested development. I reiterate as I have many times, my ex is the funniest, sharpest and most clever man I have ever met in all other departments. Emotionally, with matters of the heart, he is to all intents and purposes, a little boy. And little boys can be selfish, spiteful, over loving, clingy, needy... all in one day. (I only talk about boys because my ex is one, obviously this works the other way round too)  Just as children need to be given guidelines, to be disciplined, to have boundaries and to be told when their actions have hurt someone, so too do these adults who are very sadly living almost as if they were still children, when it comes to this part of their brain at least. It's not often I've had the chance to speak to my ex like that, let alone be brave enough (thinking he'd just walk off, cut me off etc.) But he has found other people to hate far, far far more than he does me now, and he has gravitated back into my life every time he's left it. As a constant who has never left him, or shouted at him or hurt him (except in his imagination when he has felt slighted) I suppose I am at least a part of that consistency that everyone needs to feel secure, belonging to someone, to feel stable.  Just like a child needs security. We all do. And having boundaries and someone to enforce them means that someone cares enough about you to do that... .not just abandon you to your own devices... .make sense?

What I think Joe meant, as per my friend's advice as well, is that in fact, your ex was almost challenging you to STOP him. To tell him that his behaviour was unacceptable.  That it's causing pain and has consequences. This is how we all learn right from wrong, and as children, if we had loving parents and worthwhile teachers, we were all corrected when we went down the wrong path. One or more of those significant people in our ex's lives spectacularly let them down in that department and perhaps even hurt them, perhaps even grievously.  He almost sounds as if he were calling you out, asking him to stop him, to give him boundaries and not let him run riot with your heart and feelings. So very much of this disorder is about control and trying to wrench control from us because they are feeling so very out of it a lot of the time when it comes to these matters. It is a case sadly of trying to almost 2nd guess them and get the upper hand a little bit if you want any kind of peace and equilibrium.

Had you challenged him, told him that what he did was unacceptable etc. before the final big push, you may have been pleasantly surprised. And as we all know our exes have a tendency to appear and reappear countless times, you may well yet get that opportunity. I'm not talking about going to town on him, shouting, screaming or anything like that. Just pointing some things out, on a day when he is being receptive. You might be very surprised at the reaction,because taking the time, any time, out to explain something to a person and to tell them that their actions are hurting you, ultimately shows that you care about them. These people are not monsters without a conscience, mine certainly isn't, even though he's behaved like one at times. They are in turmoil, and you have to remember at ALL times, that what they do is not guided by a desire to hurt us or inflict pain, but to protect themselves from their own.

[caughtnreleased]

Had you challenged him, told him that what he did was unacceptable etc. before the final big push, you may have been pleasantly surprised. And as we all know our exes have a tendency to appear and reappear countless times, you may well yet get that opportunity. I'm not talking about going to town on him, shouting, screaming or anything like that. Just pointing some things out, on a day when he is being receptive. You might be very surprised at the reaction,because taking the time, any time, out to explain something to a person and to tell them that their actions are hurting you, ultimately shows that you care about them. These people are not monsters without a conscience, mine certainly isn't, even though he's behaved like one at times. They are in turmoil, and you have to remember at ALL times, that what they do is not guided by a desire to hurt us or inflict pain, but to protect themselves from their own.

Hi Stripey - I think all BPDs are different. I told my BPDex very calmly about how hurt I was about his cheating which he did in a really public way with a mutual friend who was the one who broke it to me. How did BPD react? He looked at me and said "I'm sorry." in a way that was very detached and unemotional and then a few days later told me he wanted to cheat on his girlfriend with me.

Another time I told him I regretted that we hadn't taken a trip together - he responded by writing to me a few days later that he was going on a trip with the replacement.  So sometimes telling them about your pain works, as it did in your case... .and sometimes they just up the ante. If I tell my mother about any pain she has caused, she'll immediately take it as an accusation and turn it into something about herself. I can't get through to her on this... .when I say "I've been hurt" she hears "You're bad" and goes into defense/attack mode.

The fact is that yes - they are looking to be reparented - and this is what inherently makes a romantic relationship with them impossible. No one wants to be dating their parent.

[Stripey77]

Oh, I totally agree... .believe me, when I was with him, as in still together, when I tried to tell him he had hurt or offended me in any way (which wasn't much) I got the 'shut down' as well. A virtual screen would come down, he effectively told me that it was my problem because we don't all think the same. No remorse, no attempt to rectify any hurt.

This very recent interlude when I got to tell him how his much more recent behaviour (now not in a relationship) is hurting me, is the one I am referring to. We are distanced now because we're not together, so I suppose he's keeping me at arms length. His behaviour toward me is currently far, far more pleasant and stable, I suspect in part as a result of this safe emotional distance. (For him, that is, my feelings for him never changed!)  When I pulled him on something a few days ago, he simply stood there and listened. I suspect he knew I was right. He didn't try to wriggle out of anything or dismiss my hurt, not at all. If anything, he looked wrong footed and sheepish, as I say. This isn't about cheating by the way... .But I agree with you, on a different day, in a different mood, it can be met with hostility and defensiveness.

[caughtnreleased]

ah ok! Gotcha. I just wanted to make sure that Unforgiven didn't read your message as saying that if she had changed her behaviour the outcome might have been different. When I was first going through this I kept thinking that it was in some way my fault - especially since I saw him move on so quickly. I was convinced that if I did things differently, maybe he and I could be together, and the speed at which they get with replacements I think sends that message to us - that it was something we did wrong - because see? They found someone else - and we usually don't, for a while at least.   

[joeramabeme]

Could you please explain it better,   joeramabeme ?

Thank you for your words.

Grey Kitty and Stripey77 hit my point well.

Unfortunately, the nature of the disorder is that a pwBPD has many internal negative feelings.  In the end, these feelings come out in painful ways towards those they love and are emotionally close with.  The intention is not necessarily to be malicious or hurtful, though it can be both of those things.  It is really a desire to have someone take those feelings away from them.  We who are involved, become the front line of emotional dis-ease.

The other part that is so confusing is that at some level, the BPD is knowingly try to find a way that they can get the emotional comfort and closeness they really want to have.  Each relationship is like a new attempt to 'try again', sadly resulting in the same outcome.

Hopefully this all makes sense.

[vortex of confusion]

It is really a desire to have someone take those feelings away from them.  We who are involved, become the front line of emotional dis-ease.

I grew up being trained to take those emotional feelings away from different family members. When I stopped being able to take those feelings away from him and started having my own feelings and wanting to share them with HIM, it really complicated things. If I had been able to continue to take his feelings away from him, I could have made the relationship work. I couldn't continue it so I had to end the relationship. He had dumped on me and rejected me in a whole bunch of different ways before I got to the point where I couldn't take any more. I kicked him out yet I still tend to talk about it and feel as though he abandoned us. Asking him to leave and ending the relationship was my way of making all of the things that he said and did "official".