I feel so pathetic and weak

[coworkerfriend]

The constant chaos and drama is wearing me down.  I am trying to focus on work.  I am trying not to get sucked into the drama.  As I feel stronger and start pulling away, he senses it and starts to behave normally - he is nice to me.  I respond accordingly - I am nice to him and try to be validating and supportive. 

He has been saying over and over that he has no feelings for me.  He is not attracted to me.  He went so far as to say that for years, he focused all his attention pleasing me sexually that it has caused this mental deterioration.  For the past week, he has been getting increasingly upset that I haven't initiated any sexual contact with him.  I haven't because most days, he can't stand to be near me.  He is putting it all on me that he won't ask for anything - that I am supposed to know what he needs and then if I try to get close to him, he pushes me away and tells me he isn't attracted to me.

I feel pathetic.  Every day, I wake up and try to start the day on a positive note.  Try to do nice things for him like make him a cup of coffee or listen to all this issues.  I do it because I want to.  I do it because that is who I am.  I try to make things nice for people.  I try to focus on the small simple things in life.  But it doesn't matter.  I feel pathetic because I keep trying.  I feel weak because I think that somehow, some way, the positive things will make a positive impact.   I need to stop.  I am afraid to stop because I don't want our relationship to be over.  But I think I may need to accept it is. 

I have to feel these feelings.  I can't pretend they don't exist.  I feel unwanted and unloved and those feelings trigger so many painful memories for me.   I never felt good enough for my parents - I felt like a burden to them.   I lived for too many years in a marriage where my feelings didn't exist.  I got out of that and right into this.  I feel sad - weak and pathetic. 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Olinda]

I'm sorry you are feeling this way.  I try to make things nice too. I try to think positively.  It's hard when there seems to be no regard for you in return.

Sending you a hug. I have no answers for you,  just sitting with you. 

[Grey Kitty]

  I know this is really tough on you, and I'm in a bit of a tough love mood, and I'm going to point a few things back at you, instead of him:

For the past week, he has been getting increasingly upset that I haven't initiated any sexual contact with him.  I haven't because most days, he can't stand to be near me.

What do YOU want regarding the sexual part of your relationship with him?

First off, it is 100% natural and sane to not want that when he's attacking/rejecting you sexually, so backing off for a bit is what most anybody would do, and (at best), it will take time to forgive and recover once he shows some appreciation and receptiveness there. (Not that he will acknowledge that; instead he will blame you for every side of it!)

Second, it takes some serious courage to approach, initiate, or even respond to sexual advances after being rejected like that.     I've been in those shoes before, and it is really tough.

Back to you--Do you really want sex in your relationship with him or not? (I'm not asking you to be graphic, but one consideration is whether he is a good, caring lover when he's not rejecting you)

You gotta figure out what you want, and you gotta decide if he can and will give you enough of it or not. That's for you to think about.

I feel pathetic.  Every day, I wake up and try to start the day on a positive note.  Try to do nice things for him like make him a cup of coffee or listen to all this issues.  I do it because I want to.  I do it because that is who I am.  I try to make things nice for people.  I try to focus on the small simple things in life.  But it doesn't matter.  I feel pathetic because I keep trying.  I feel weak because I think that somehow, some way, the positive things will make a positive impact.

  That is quite a bundle of contradictory feelings you've got.

And I suspect that there is something else in there you haven't quite found--if you really felt good about small kindnesses (even when he rejects them), you probably wouldn't feel pathetic and weak.

I'm sure you are a kind person and you like to do nice things for people.

Do you also feel some sort of guilt or obligation to do things for him?

Do you feel some hope that doing this for him will "fix" things with him, despite a really bad track record so far?

[coworkerfriend]

GK - I appreciate the tough love -  I need things pointed back at me.  I have spent far too long focused on him and that hasn't helped me. 

I haven't felt close to him in months - I haven't initiated because I know he will reject me.  Last night, when we were sitting on the couch, I suggested we go upstairs and watch tv in bed.  He said he didn't want to.  I didn't even care about sex - I was hoping to feel close to him.  After he said no, my thoughts turned to the negative things he has been saying.  I sat there for almost an hour absorbed in my thoughts.  It is really hard to be rejected over and over.  It is really hard to hear that our sex life took a toll on his mental health.  That all the years he focused on making me happy, he lost himself.    In the past, after an episode, he would initiate and we would have sex - we would feel close to each other.  He used to say that he would understand if I withheld sex from him, that he would deserve it based on his behavior.  I would tell him that I wasn't going to use that to punish him.  That I believed he punishes himself enough and I didn't need to punish him.  I honestly love our sexual relationship - that had always been a very good way for us to connect.  For the past 7 years, that is one area we never had an issue with. 

I feel pathetic because I know somewhere inside me, I am a good person - worthy of love and being treated with love.  I work hard - I am kind to people.  None of that matters in his world when he is dysregulated. I guess some part of me hopes that he will see that I am a kind and appreciate me.  You are right - the track record truly proves that isn't going to happen.  I need to face reality. 

 It took me a long time to face that I was in a loveless marriage and a long time to end it.  I stayed for my children which as I look back now, I didn't do them any favors.  My children look up to me for strength and I feel like I let them down. I guess I let myself down.   I feel like a failure for having any self-esteem I had built up eroded away over time. Where did the strong independent woman go? 

After I learned about BPD, I thought I was strong enough to withstand the ups and downs.  I wanted to stay.  I wanted to keep working on our relationship.   I thought the ups outweighed the downs.  Now I can see I am the only one working on the relationship.  He is stuck in this cycle and I am trying to change the cycle.  It obviously isn't working.

Olinda - thank you for the hug and kind words.   

[Grey Kitty]

It is really hard to hear that our sex life took a toll on his mental health.

I honestly love our sexual relationship - that had always been a very good way for us to connect.  For the past 7 years, that is one area we never had an issue with. 

  I just want to hold you and say "Oh, honey" or something like that after reading this.

You are blaming yourself... .and you missed that his accusation is a toxic, horrible thing to do to a sexual partner. And, rejecting your interest and advances (every time, like he was doing) is only a little less cruel.

Perhaps your sexual relationship was excellent at the beginning, but this part isn't!


You were being kind to him. His rejection of your kindness doesn't change that your intentions and your actions were kind. You don't have to believe that what he says about you is true, especially when he's dysregulated. When he's dysregulated, he is so flooded and overwhelmed by his own feelings that nobody else exists as a real person; they are only targets that he flails at while trying to cope.

As for that strong, independent woman? She's still in there. Say hello to her. Maybe have a cup of coffee with her in the morning.

[Lalathegreat]

" Every day, I wake up and try to start the day on a positive note.  Try to do nice things for him like make him a cup of coffee or listen to all this issues.  I do it because I want to.  I do it because that is who I am.  I try to make things nice for people.  I try to focus on the small simple things in life.  But it doesn't matter.  I feel pathetic because I keep trying.  I feel weak because I think that somehow, some way, the positive things will make a positive impact.   I need to stop.  I am afraid to stop because I don't want our relationship to be over.  But I think I may need to accept it is.  "


I feel such an incredible kinship with you right now. I could have written this statement word for word. It is the hardest thing in the world to be the kind of person who values bringing kindness to the people you care about and then to have that kindness rejected, misinterpreted, twisted, and then rejected or thrown back in your face. It makes you question your understanding of humanity and doubt your belief that people are generally kind and good. This relationship has been so shocking to me in ways that I fear I will never recover from no matter the outcome.

I wish I could magic wand this for both of us. I'm sorry for what you are going through. 

lala

[patientandclear]

CWF--I relate strongly to your reflections in the initial post. I too found that the repeated rejections from the man wBPD in my life took a toll on my feelings about him and about myself. And that damage was amplified by the fact that I'd endured being used and not well loved in a long marriage, finally got out, and thought this would be different. To find it was in many ways a repeat of me trying to please this person to earn his desire, appreciation etc., which at the outset seemed so organic and freely given, was a sick feeling. To genuinely accept it was that way took a long time. I tried so many ways to fix it, to avoid this conclusion. In the end I realized I was the only one making any actual effort to solve it. He wanted to feel good and didn't want to lose me, but he had no skills to make it better, and was my active opponent much of the time. He was shredding trust and optimism faster than I could rebuild it. At some point I stopped wanting to make a relationship against his stated will.

Nothing I've ever endured was harder than the letting go. I think that is in large part because they don't truly intend or want the outcome they make inevitable. So it seems you are working on both of your behalfs by hanging in there and trying to please, repair, find a way. But I can't fight my own partner about the basic building blocks (does he feel anything for me?) ... .And it re-injures me in places I long ago committed to myself I wouldn't let myself be hurt again.

I know how hard this is. I'm sorry!

[coworkerfriend]

Thank you so much for your replies.  Your kindness and words are my only comfort right now.  I feel so alone and so broken down. It's been a very bad week.

He's been playing me against his ex wife for months now - always threatening to call her - get back together with her - go back to her.  That's my trigger - it turns my head upside down - I can't think straight and panic about losing my relationship with him.  He is going back to her - he is going to tell her the "truth" and get back together with her.  Why don't I feel a flood of relief at the thought of him moving on.  Why don't I just let him go back to her.   What kind of relationship am I desperate to save?  Tonight's tirade was again about how I haven't initiated sex with him - that he gave me clues - that I should know him and know that is what he needs.  As I was listening to him, I kept thinking about how many times each day he has said he doesn't want me - he isn't attracted to me.  I got triggered while he was talking - I felt scared and panicky at the thought of losing him.  When did this happen to me?  How did this happen?  This is so hard.  I lost myself.  When my marriage ended, I was so afraid of taking a chance - getting involved with someone.  He was so loving - so caring - it was like he knew exactly what I needed.  I fell hard for it.  I wanted so desperately to be loved - desired - I wanted someone to take care of me.  It has been a very long 7 years - especially the past 6 months.  As I sit here and think of all the times I excused away the verbal abuse - the rejection - the pain I have felt thinking if only I could do something to fix it.  I had hope for so long.  Hope that he was getting help - hope that he could see how much I love him and that it would matter.  I really don't know how to let go.  I let myself believe the things he said to me.  I made that part of who I am at this moment.  He tells me I ruined his life - he tells me I have taken everything from him. I can't sort myself out. 

Thank you so much for being here.

[Grey Kitty]

  The ex-wife threats are probably just that. And he uses them because they really do get to you.

I mean really... .what are the chances she would take him back?

[coworkerfriend]

They really do get to me.   I am not exactly sure why they bother me so much.  There are times that I do think she would take him back - even though she was the one who left.   The dysfunction in their relationship worked for them for a while I guess.  In some ways, he has always pined for her - the minute she was gone - she was the one who understood him and took care of him.  I fell into the default position of causing all his problems - being the source of his unhappiness.   I am sure she was that person before me.  I feel too deep into this to think clearly - to see the big picture and accept reality. 

I was always afraid of losing hope in my life - I used to be the most hopeful optimistic person.  I think maybe I was hoping for the wrong things.  I am fighting a losing battle and I need to accept that.  There is no going back.  Why am I holding on so tight? 

[jhkbuzz]

I feel unwanted and unloved and those feelings trigger so many painful memories for me.   I never felt good enough for my parents - I felt like a burden to them.   I lived for too many years in a marriage where my feelings didn't exist.  I got out of that and right into this.  I feel sad - weak and pathetic. 

You are a partner to your own abuse.

[patientandclear]

While I am with GK that the purpose of the ex-wife threats are probably centered around controlling you, and not meant to be actualized ... .I suspect it gets to you because he is saying it--the betrayal that itself represents--not just because you think he will actually do it. There is a hook for you (and me ) there: "get him to stop not wanting me. Get him to choose me."

[coworkerfriend]

P&C you are exactly right - the betrayal it represents is huge for me.  I was very triggered last night.  I had a very restless sleep and couldn't relax.  The threats are meant to control me and he did have dinner with her last night.  He came in and said - see, the world didn't end.  I don't know what you think - that I will fall back in love with her.  I don't know what the big deal is. I had no response for him.  He kept asking me if there was something I wanted to say to him and I don't.  I know that nothing I say will be the right thing - there is nothing I can do.  He was at work for about 3 hours today before his meltdown and threat to go home and go to bed.  I feel like I am falling so far behind with the constant chaos and drama.  Weekends are usually a good time for me to catch up and get ready for the upcoming week but this weekend, I have to get stuff done.  His mental state is so bad right now - he truly needs treatment. 

P&C - how did you do it?  How did you let go? I am so hooked in this cycle and it isn't working at all. 

[waverider]

Having a better understanding of BPD brings with it the potential delusion that we can "nice" them better. We can't, moving our tolerance goal posts simply relocates their forward line accordingly. In order to care effectively for a pwBPD you need the ability to be extremely self serving at times or you wont survive

A pwBPDs ability to rewrite history, means someone will always be perceived as  better than you, despite evidence to the opposite. Dont allow yourself to compared to delusions

If you have never had the luxury of putting yourself first then you have no precedence for withstanding the shifting demands of a pwBPD. Add to this pwBPD struggle to respect the person they try to change you into. They need the push back. They need to hear 'no'

[patientandclear]

  CWF.  My heart really goes out to you.  Two things ... .

Maybe it will help to see the mechanics of how this is making you feel bad and what exactly is going on.  The account you shared about his pushing you away sexually and then being upset that you did not pick up on his signals and initiate sexually ... .how incredibly confusing that is, because those appear on the surface to be contradictory pieces of information.  However, upon closer inspection, they aren't.  He wants you to want him.  He does not want to want you.  :)oes that make sense, and do you see that those are not at all contradictory once viewed through the lens of control, and not allowing his own vulnerability?

I once had a lightbulb moment that helped cut through the confusion where I realized "he wants me to be married to him, but he does not want to be married to me."  This is a dynamic where the BPD person wants to be wanted, and wants you to care, and at the same time, is not wanting to reciprocate or mirror those same feelings back.  This is actually about his quest (however unconscious) to achieve asymmetry.  Not about an exchange of similar emotions or an even-ing of the relationship.  My exwBPD simply loves to say no to me.  He loves to reject me.  Indeed, that is perhaps the central value I provide for him: I do a lot of work to show I love and care for him, and he puts up impediments so I can't get or can't stay close.  Given him a chance to reject me is sort of my role in his ecosystem.  Once I saw it this way I became less susceptible to how it pulled on my heartstrings when he would act enthusiastic and open ... .because it came to feel that this was to get me in position to be rejected and for him to blame me for the dynamic or the deficiency.  As my therapist said once, "he is a system."  The two pieces (he wants you to want him; he wants to push you away) actually fit together perfectly.

P&C - how did you do it?  How did you let go? I am so hooked in this cycle and it isn't working at all.  

How did I let go?  First, I wasn't in nearly as deep.  We had known each other a long time but our relationship was only episodically central for either one of us.  We have had many long breaks.  My body knows I will survive without him even if my heart lags significantly.

The biggest thing is that I've done three years of body-based trauma recovery therapy, which has threaded together my reactions to the events with the man I love wBPD, and what happened in earlier traumatic relationships.  I have a strong and growing visceral commitment to not participating in a situation where I am the only "friend of the relationship," where I am doing all the work, where my loved one avoids all responsibility for repair and for the damage that occurs, where there isn't even formal agreement on the nature of the issue and the plan for change.  And the withholding and the blaming and shaming of me for loving him and caring for him just shows up in my mental/emotional decoding ring as "abuse" and I have a body-based impulse to avoid it.

Without the trauma recovery work I don't think there is any way I would have stepped away, probably for good now, and even for those breaks starting three years ago.

 

[patientandclear]

... .and to be clear, I didn't "step away" in the sense of choosing to end the relationship.  I set some conditions for continued engagement ... .a very very low bar.  And he has chosen not to engage on those terms that work for me.  Thus, we are apart.