Oh the lawyers and the waiting...

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

My situation: Divorcing my BPD wife of 3.5 years. Second marriage for both. No children together. I've paid 90% of the bills in the marriage, own two homes, and co-own a cottage with her that has been in my family for 17 years. I'm on my second attorney, having fired the first for inaction and poor communication. I'm out of my house, too, having been threatened with false allegations, and paying temp. spousal support in terms of paying the mortgage, utilities, auto insurance, health insurance, and miscellaneous home repairs. It adds up to an average of $1500 a month for six months.

We had another pretrial hearing Feb 28th. My lawyer met with hers for two hours. The result was a settlement offer from her lawyer that had no connection to reality. The most ludicrous statement within it was that "Both parties will keep their bank accounts" while their request was for more money than I had in both accounts. She also offered that "both parties will keep their vehicles" while she went out and bought a new $25,000 car last month (yet another violation of the mutual restraining order) and I have a 10-year old car worth less than $5,000.

Of course I said no to every request made, but now I am wondering what the heck these two talked about for two hours that produced a meaningless offer? I've just spent $450 to move an inch towards settlement after seven months. For example, they requested spousal support of $1500 a month for 15 months. That's one-third of my take-home pay and ignores credit for the seven months I've already paid. They requested $10K in equity of the cottage for which she is not entitled to equity (I paid all of the costs out of premarital accounts).

So, my attorney said she would draft a revised settlement offer, file a motion to get my wife to complete her discovery, and a motion to reduce temporary spousal support (make my wife pay some of the costs of living in my home). I was happy with this, because it might light a fire under my wife. She said she'd try to get it done by Friday, but more likely next Thursday (nine days after the hearing).

That was two weeks ago, and I haven't heard from her since. When I tell someone I will do something by date X, I either get it done by date X, or communicate a new date and the cause for the delay. Why don't lawyers hold themselves to this professional standard? I know I've only worked with two lawyers, but it seems they just juggle their clients and could care less about our lives and the costs (emotional, financial, etc) of this waiting game. My lawyer is always "extremely busy". I can't even get her on the phone without an appointment.

Having left a relationship with an extremely controlling woman, she has managed to stretch out the control over my life (getting back into my house, getting on with my life) through delays and help from lawyers intent on dragging things out.

Sorry to vent but I don't talk about this much with others. I do see light at the end of the tunnel. I just feel like the train is stopped and it bugs me.

The Teacher

[The Teacher]

My situation: Divorcing my BPD wife of 3.5 years. Second marriage for both. No children together. I've paid 90% of the bills in the marriage, own two homes, and co-own a cottage with her that has been in my family for 17 years. I'm on my second attorney, having fired the first for inaction and poor communication. I'm out of my house, too, having been threatened with false allegations, and paying temp. spousal support in terms of paying the mortgage, utilities, auto insurance, health insurance, and miscellaneous home repairs. It adds up to an average of $1500 a month for six months.

We had another pretrial hearing Feb 28th. My lawyer met with hers for two hours. The result was a settlement offer from her lawyer that had no connection to reality. The most ludicrous statement within it was that "Both parties will keep their bank accounts" while their request was for more money than I had in both accounts. She also offered that "both parties will keep their vehicles" while she went out and bought a new $25,000 car last month (yet another violation of the mutual restraining order) and I have a 10-year old car worth less than $5,000.

Of course I said no to every request made, but now I am wondering what the heck these two talked about for two hours that produced a meaningless offer? I've just spent $450 to move an inch towards settlement after seven months. For example, they requested spousal support of $1500 a month for 15 months. That's one-third of my take-home pay and ignores credit for the seven months I've already paid. They requested $10K in equity of the cottage for which she is not entitled to equity (I paid all of the costs out of premarital accounts).

So, my attorney said she would draft a revised settlement offer, file a motion to get my wife to complete her discovery, and a motion to reduce temporary spousal support (make my wife pay some of the costs of living in my home). I was happy with this, because it might light a fire under my wife. She said she'd try to get it done by Friday, but more likely next Thursday (nine days after the hearing).

That was two weeks ago, and I haven't heard from her since. When I tell someone I will do something by date X, I either get it done by date X, or communicate a new date and the cause for the delay. Why don't lawyers hold themselves to this professional standard? I know I've only worked with two lawyers, but it seems they just juggle their clients and could care less about our lives and the costs (emotional, financial, etc) of this waiting game. My lawyer is always "extremely busy". I can't even get her on the phone without an appointment.

Having left a relationship with an extremely controlling woman, she has managed to stretch out the control over my life (getting back into my house, getting on with my life) through delays and help from lawyers intent on dragging things out.

Sorry to vent but I don't talk about this much with others. I do see light at the end of the tunnel. I just feel like the train is stopped and it bugs me.

The Teacher

[livednlearned]

I had a hard time telling what was worse, the BPD marriage or the family law court system.

And my lawyer was one of the good ones. 

Same with the judge.

Keep the pressure on your lawyer. You can be super friendly and assertive at the same time.

I also spent a lot of time going to the office to drop off checks and documents and whatnot. That helped me become BFFs with her administrative staff.

Keep in mind it's going to be this way until you have completely disentangled. The settlement is usually not the end of it, unfortunately.

If you can, make sure there are contingencies or consequences in the order for non-compliance, like who will pay legal fees.

When there is no leverage in our cases, things do tend to drag out a lot longer.

It's enough to drive you nuts.

LnL

[ForeverDad]

Be aware of the difference between legal fees and court costs.  Legal fees can be high, court costs are usually minimal.

[insideout77]

You sound really frustrated by your lawyer and rightfully so. Some lawyers try to handle their clients and slow walk the whole process. Why don't you spend the time you are waiting by visiting some new much more aggressive lawyers and ask them as for their approach, Also tell them that you will insist that they keep their word to you and they will always be working for you, not the other way around.  They are a dime a dozen. Don't take that rotten service and get another one.

[The Teacher]

You sound really frustrated by your lawyer and rightfully so. Some lawyers try to handle their clients and slow walk the whole process. Why don't you spend the time you are waiting by visiting some new much more aggressive lawyers and ask them as for their approach, Also tell them that you will insist that they keep their word to you and they will always be working for you, not the other way around.  They are a dime a dozen. Don't take that rotten service and get another one.

Thank you. Well, I have already fired one attorney on January 2nd because he was so lazy and unprofessional. He kept his $2000 retainer and never sent me a final bill. In hiring the second attorney, I had to pay a retainer. That cost me $2250. I had a hearing on February 28th, with a settlement conference scheduled for April 26th (the two months between hearings just kills me). My attorney said she'd get a settlement offer drafted and a motion to reduce my temporary spousal support by March 3rd. Nothing. So I emailed her. No response. Then I called her and left a voicemail. Then I got a call from her secretary the next day saying "She wants you to know she has been very busy and that she hasn't forgotten about you! She's going to work on something tomorrow". That was March 15th. Nothing arrived. Then I emailed again the next week to say I need to get an opinion about income tax filings and where she is on the proposal, and reminded her I would be out of town March 22-29, and this is the response I got the day before I left town:

"I apologize for being difficult to reach this past week or so. I have received your e-mails and know that you will be unavailable later this week for Spring Break. I am working as fast as possible but with interruptions for other litigation and some last minute emergencies that have arisen. I don't want you to feel neglected or forgotten!"

Well hell, don't neglect me and I won't feel forgotten or neglected! And notice how this time she doesn't promise to actually do anything on my case. She just reminds me that she gets my emails.

Then I returned from being out of town and nothing was waiting for me in my inbox. So I emailed on March 30th to say I was back in town. No response. By the end of the day, I left a voicemail message - oh yeah, I was all about BIFF, but I reminded her that it had been 30 days since my last hearing and I have not received any of the items she promised to do.

No response to those inquiries yet.

It seems this lawyer is just juggling too many clients. Yes, I could interview yet more attorneys and fire her and try to get a new attorney, but I have a feeling it would be more of the same. My life, my pain and suffering, is irrelevant to these folks. Meanwhile, my wife continues to live in my home like a teenager while I pay all the bills, and she runs up the utility bills, buys herself a new car which increased my car insurance, etc.

According to the courts, a settlement offer has to be submitted two weeks in advance of the hearing. That would be April 12th.

I get it. This crap takes time. It's just so dang stupid that my wife is dragging this out for every last dollar, my lawyer won't do the work needed to move things forward, I am continue to live like hermit in a studio apartment eating my rice and beans. I don't know who I am more upset with - my attorney or the mentally ill spouse.

My inclination is to sit tight, see if she produces a settlement offer, and if she doesn't, to tell her I want this to go to trial. Would that be a mistake? I am sick of taking a half day off of work every month or two to accomplish nothing in these pretrial hearings.

Thanks for listening and responding.

The Teacher

[insideout77]

There are two issues at play here. 1. Your stress with the process, and that will not change until you detach. A good therapist can help you there much more than a lawyer. It's very frustrating and it took me several months into the legal process to be chilled about it. 2. It's a shame that you got two bad lawyers in a row. When I went looked for a lawyer I asked a good friend who is a judge for advice and he told me "treat it like your looking for someone to replace the HVAC in your home" you will interview a bunch of different ones, see how they reply to you ; listen between the lines, compare the different options and go with your gut. Lastly he did say that often while a prominent named attorney may not be better in the court, hey often do have a reputation to protect and will treat you as the client better.

Good luck, this part is really hard, don't give up, freedom is around the corner

[GaGrl]

The lawyer is working for you. She is your employee.

If you were to give a performance evaluation at this point, what would you honestly say?

So say it.

Along with the consequences of continued non-performance.

She sounds as if she is too much in the just-in-time mode of working cases. That isn't your style.

[ForeverDad]

Do you have Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder by William Eddy & Randi Kreger?  Quite inexpensive and one of our most highly recommended handbooks on dealing with the legal aspects of separation, divorce and custody issues.

It advises that we seek our an experienced attorney, problem solving, assertive but not wacko aggressive, proactive, someone what practical strategies, open to settlements of course but also well prepared for court and trials.  One suggestion is to get a list of recommended lawyers, determine what strategies they would suggest, how would they approach court hearings and trials?  Do they have solid trial experience or do they just file forms, hold hands and expect settlements to fall into their laps?  While many of our cases do end up with settlements, it is generally not early in the cases and is often at the last minute just before a major hearing or trial.  (My 23.5 month divorce settled just minutes before the scheduled trial, prior ordered mediation and ordered settlement conference ended in endless delays and posturing.)

Do the strategies make sense?  Do they sound proactive or pure defense?  Remember what the competitive sports teams all know, the winner of the games generally isn't the team playing only defense.

One probing question you can ask is, "If YOU were facing a divorce as high conflict and contentious as mine, who would YOU choose to be your attorney?"  Move those names higher on your list to interview.  Don't feel bad, they know not every person walking in the door for consultations will become their client.  Better to pay more inexpensive legal consultations than more retainers.

Last but not least, we here in peer support have been around the block a few times, collectively we have a pretty good idea which approaches generally work and which generally don't.  Bounce your ideas and questions off us, we've been there, done that.

[The Teacher]

You sound really frustrated by your lawyer and rightfully so. Some lawyers try to handle their clients and slow walk the whole process. Why don't you spend the time you are waiting by visiting some new much more aggressive lawyers and ask them as for their approach, Also tell them that you will insist that they keep their word to you and they will always be working for you, not the other way around.  They are a dime a dozen. Don't take that rotten service and get another one.

Thank you. It's true that there are a lot of lawyers out there. I'm on my second. An update - my attorney has not responded to email or voicemail for six weeks now. My next hearing is two weeks from today. It was to be a settlement hearing. But I do not know if she has drafted a settlement offer.

So there's a trade-off. Get the whole process started again with yet another lawyer, adding more months to my case, paying another $2,000 retainer, or continue to try to be patient and see what this one does.

Does anyone know if I can insist on talking with the magistrate at my next hearing? The five hearings I have been to, all I have done is sat on a bench in the hallway while the lawyers go into the courtroom and do their business. Can my lawyer prevent me from going in and seeing the magistrate with her? I think I just want to get this to trial rather than deal with these stall tactics from both sides.

The Teacher

[Herodias]

I am frustrated too... .my lawyer isn't responding to me either. I have tried to tell myself that she is saving me money by doing this, but I don't know the answer to my questions! My ex has now stopped paying money he owes me. This never seems to end. I just can't give in, because he keeps screwing me over and I hope that eventually this will stop. I don't know. I am angry my lawyer didn't do some things to prevent others. I really think she thought I was the disgruntled spouse. It took two years and I think she is starting to believe me... .maybe.

[livednlearned]

Does anyone know if I can insist on talking with the magistrate at my next hearing? The five hearings I have been to, all I have done is sat on a bench in the hallway while the lawyers go into the courtroom and do their business. Can my lawyer prevent me from going in and seeing the magistrate with her? I think I just want to get this to trial rather than deal with these stall tactics from both sides.

This may be a question you can ask the Clerk of Court. If I understand correctly, they cannot give legal advice but part of their job is to help explain how the court works.

About your L, I wonder if going to the office in person repeatedly will help you get things to move along. I put in a bunch of time up front with my L, always stopping in person and got to know the front office staff. I was always polite, very appreciative of all they were doing, and once brought chocolate 

My L was always very responsive, or at the very least had her associate respond to me. I think she was like that regardless of what I did, but I also think there is nothing like showing up in person. Even if the L is not there.

[The Teacher]

This may be a question you can ask the Clerk of Court. If I understand correctly, they cannot give legal advice but part of their job is to help explain how the court works.

About your L, I wonder if going to the office in person repeatedly will help you get things to move along. I put in a bunch of time up front with my L, always stopping in person and got to know the front office staff. I was always polite, very appreciative of all they were doing, and once brought chocolate 

My L was always very responsive, or at the very least had her associate respond to me. I think she was like that regardless of what I did, but I also think there is nothing like showing up in person. Even if the L is not there.

I'm glad you had the opportunity to check in with your lawyer in person like that. I teach school, and it is a burden on my colleagues to take time off to go to my lawyer's office. I finish my school day at 3:30 and could drive over to her office. I might do that on Monday, since I have a hearing on Wednesday and have yet to hear from her! Chances are she will be gone for the day if I get there by 4, or she might be in court. The only return call I have received in the past two months was from her admin to tell me that I'd be getting something the next day - never happened. It's a 2-person law firm. I wound up filing an extension on my taxes because she never responded about it.

Meanwhile, I did find out what a settlement conference is (I called the courtroom) and also have an appointment lined up with a potential attorney number 3 on May 4th. I'm also gathering the evidence for my formal complaint to the state bar association. Lawyers who do this need to be reprimanded.

The Teacher

[The Teacher]

So... .I take the advice that has been offered and drive the 35 minutes to my lawyer's office this afternoon, leaving work early. Today was day 55 of not hearing from her about any progress on my case, and I have a hearing scheduled for this Wednesday.

I open her office door and she sees me from her back room. "Oh, I'm so glad you stopped by." I see her close the door and come to the front desk where I am standing. She starts mumbling and stammering and backpedaling like one of my ninth graders who forgot to do his homework. The look on her face was priceless. I'm like "I have not heard from you since our last hearing at the end of February. What can you tell me about this Wednesday? Where do things stand?"

Then she says ":)idn't you get my email with my draft settlement offer?" Wow. I was about to ask her is she owned a dog (that had eaten her assignment).

"No... .Why don't you send it to me again? I'd like to see it. It's been two months now."

She photocopies a letter dated a week ago that opposing counsel had sent to her with a list of items my wife wants to remove from our home and cottage. I glance at the list - not one item on the list is backed up by her discovery (she says she bought everything with money from her inheritance). I have been asking my lawyer to motivate my wife to complete her discovery since it first arrived incomplete on January 23rd.

She asks me if I had heard from opposing counsel about the return of my cottage keys (my wife's attorney insisted on using my keys to do an appraisal in December and had retained the keys - my only copies). "No", I said.

"Oh gosh. I will shoot her an email. I'm meeting with a client now. My daughter has gymnastics from 5:30 to 7 pm. I will call you tonight during her practice."

So I head home at 3:30... .and wait.

5:30 rolls around, and I get an email. "I got to school to pick up my kids and one of my children got injured. I have to go to urgent care. How late can I call you?"

You can call late.

8:30 I get another email. "At the hospital waiting for xray results. I don't want you to think that I have forgotten!"

I wait.

All this time I have been going through my draft of my third offer, revising it, recalculating some things, thinking about how I am going to keep my cool with this lawyer should she ever call me back. Nothing.

Around midnight, I send her an email, attaching my third offer, saying:

I am calling it a night. I hope your child is okay.

I've attached what I consider the draft of my final offer. I do not know how it might compare to what you may have done with my first draft from March as I have not yet seen it.

Opposing counsel has been a very zealous advocate for her client, ensconcing her in my home while I live out of two suitcases in a studio apartment and pay most of her bills. Her settlement offer, made after two hours of negotiations with you, requested more money than I have in savings and nearly 40% of my take-home salary in spousal support for 15 months, completely ignoring the $14,000 in support I have already paid for her to live in my home. This Wednesday, I need to see you advocate for me.

I have been honest, forthright, and fair. I reviewed the list of items that my wife wishes to remove from my home and cottage, yet there's not a shred of documentation to support her claims that she purchased these items with untouchable (inheritance) assets. I have also been patient, waiting some 55 days without word from you about the status of my case or the work you said you would undertake on my behalf.

I will tell you right now that I will not agree to further pretrial hearings. It is not to my financial advantage or emotional well-being to allow this to continue to be dragged out. If no progress is made on Wednesday in our discussions, I want the case moved to trial. This needs to be made clear to opposing counsel.

I am free after 3:30 pm tomorrow, should you wish to discuss my case with me."


What did I do to deserve this? I can think of three times in my life where I paid a person up front and they didn't follow through on their end of the bargain. Once was a tree guy who took a $500 deposit to cut down and remove two trees, started sawing away, went on a lunch break, and never came back. The other two times was this divorce - retainers paid to attorneys who seem to have just folded on me.

Sorry for the rant. I'm not as upset or angry as I might sound in a post. It's just crazy. I don't know who I am more disgusted with: my wife, her attorney, or mine.

The Teacher

[livednlearned]

Good for you! What a great letter, and showing up in person was a good move.

Do you plan to file a complaint when this is over? This L is costing you real money.

Based on what I have read here, my L was really good. If she ever messed up or didn't get something to me, she would offer some kind of professional courtesy, whether it was cutting me a check or offering to do something no charge.

Depending on how things go on Wed, you may want to have a talk with your L about that. I assume you are getting an itemized bill of time spent on your case?

There was a member here named Matt a while back who was so helpful in my own case. He suggested I ask my L ways to cut costs, and I did that. It was a good move because $$$ became part of every conversation with my L, and that got us both on the same page.

Altho, in your case, it's hard to even have a conversation with your L.  

Good luck on Wednesday. Any chance you can show up in person prior to that to send another strong signal? Or do you feel things are going to be ok without a face-to-face conversation?

[ForeverDad]

Frankly, until your stbEx provides proof in discovery what she did buy with her inheritance purchases you could default to them being marital assets.  Sadly, getting documentation in discovery is very difficult, as you've discovered.  (Oops, pun intended.  )  I recall sending my ex's lawyer over 600 pages, I got ZERO back.  Court didn't blink an eye.

I don't know how you can skip all the pre-trials and go directly to trial.  If you can, fine.  You stbEx is playing a delay game, after all, she surely sees it as a freebie with you paying the expenses during the divorce process.

One idea for an offer is to set whatever an appropriate support/alimony amount is and then deduct other expenses from it.  If you're paying mortgage, real estate taxes, home insurance, utilities, etc then add up the prorated amounts and deduct them.

Also, if it was a relatively short marriage - 4 years is short - then alimony is very short term or not even a reasonable demand.  That may be one reason she's delaying the case so much, the longer the temp order is in effect, the more in benefits she gets in spousal support rather than paying her own bills.

Finally, remember that you have the right to withdraw an offer or set a date when it ends.

[The Teacher]

I don't know how you can skip all the pre-trials and go directly to trial.  If you can, fine.  You stbEx is playing a delay game, after all, she surely sees it as a freebie with you paying the expenses during the divorce process.

One idea for an offer is to set whatever an appropriate support/alimony amount is and then deduct other expenses from it.  If you're paying mortgage, real estate taxes, home insurance, utilities, etc then add up the prorated amounts and deduct them.

Also, if it was a relatively short marriage - 4 years is short - then alimony is very short term or not even a reasonable demand.  That may be one reason she's delaying the case so much, the longer the temp order is in effect, the more in benefits she gets in spousal support rather than paying her own bills.

Finally, remember that you have the right to withdraw an offer or set a date when it ends.

Thank you. I have had five pretrial hearings. Can't my lawyer tell the magistrate or judge that the case cannot be settled and ask for a trial date to be set?

I have paid roughly $1600 a month in temporary spousal support while my wife lives in my home. It has totaled $14,000 to date. She is asking for $1500 a month for 15 months beyond the date of the divorce (law in my state says one year per year of marriage, which is where I figure the got the 15 months from), but it is basically ignoring nine months of support I have already provided. My first attorney told me I would get credit for that. I have no idea who to believe. I cannot afford $1500 a month. My net pay each month after bills is about $1100 on a very tight budget.

Yes, I understand about withdrawing an offer. They have let two go by. My lawyer was supposed to have drafted a third in early March. So tomorrow it looks like I get to sit across a table and not look at my spouse. It's the first time I will have sat down with her since the day I left.

The Teacher

[The Teacher]

Good for you! What a great letter, and showing up in person was a good move.

Do you plan to file a complaint when this is over? This L is costing you real money.

Depending on how things go on Wed, you may want to have a talk with your L about that. I assume you are getting an itemized bill of time spent on your case?

Good luck on Wednesday. Any chance you can show up in person prior to that to send another strong signal? Or do you feel things are going to be ok without a face-to-face conversation?

Thank you. Yes, I have printed out all of the emails I sent, her two email responses saying what she would do and when, and all of the phone call logs. I can file a complaint with my state bar association. Given that she has a kid who was [allegedly] in a hospital last night, I didn't think it was worth making the trip to her office. I told her in my email that I was available after 3:30. That was 3 hours ago. She has not called. I will just have to see how it goes tomorrow. And no, I have yet to receive an itemized bill from the first lawyer I fired (he simply kept his retainer) or her (and it has been four months - I think her retainer equates to 10 hours of work on my case).

Thanks for your support.

The Teacher

[ForeverDad]

Of course she's demanding a lot.  She's entitled.  And... .that's Negotiation 101, ask for more than you expect to end up with.  However, with her being disordered and entitled, she really believes she will get it.  A court decision will provide a Reality Check.  But beware that courts and lawyers would rather keep delaying a case in hopes of an eventual settlement.  So your strategy needs to be, "Get the trial scheduled.  This lady is not going to settle for reasonable terms unless (maybe) it's on the court house steps as we walk in to begin the trial on Trial Day."

That's what happened to me, court took over 21 months to get all the pre-trial steps done, mediation attempt, parenting investigation, custody evaluation, settlement conference, trial scheduling, assorted continuances.  But she had a favorable temp order and she had no incentive to let it go.  Then as I walked into court on Trial Day (sorry, no steps) my lawyer greeted me with the news she was ready to settle.  Five minutes before trial was to begin.  Only then was she under pressure to actually settle on reality's terms.

[forestfortrees]

Boy oh boy. I have a rant buried deep in my soul, but after coming out the other end - I realize that I am alive and well. I remember listen to a really good person who divorce 15 years name off the full amount he felt hosed (and he was hosed by pre-divorce spending sprees too) and it still burned him. That really left a mark on how I just want to put it all in the past - I still have a ways to go.

It hurts. It really does. I am still miffed at my lawyer and the unwillingness to settle reasonable plus the costs, but it eventually was over.

You drive the boat on the outcome more than you think, and will decide what's really important. This is just a moment in time. 

[The Teacher]

You drive the boat on the outcome more than you think, and will decide what's really important. This is just a moment in time.  

Thank you Forest.

Here's my update. My attorney sent me a draft of a settlement agreement at 11:45 pm last night. Nothing like procrastination. I responded with corrections within 20 minutes and she prepared a final draft by 12:30 am.

I get to the courthouse this morning... .she's not there. I start getting emails (sent to me and opposing counsel) about another meeting running late. I photocopy the settlement agreement and hand it to her attorney and tell her she is on her way. Then another email that's she's about to park. Then another email that she is struck behind a firetruck. Then my wife's attorney plops a settlement agreement on the bench I am sitting on... ."You can give this to your attorney when she shows up". After 45 minutes, I see my wife's attorney walk into the chambers. Then another  email saying "I'm going through security now... ." Finally, she arrives and I all but tell her to get her butt into the courtroom. Thankfully, the judge excused her lateness.

Here's the deal.

I read my wife's settlement agreement. She holds fast to getting half of the equity in my house (22,500), 10,000  to take her name off the deed to a cottage, 4500 in attorney's fees, half of my marital retirement contributions (22,500) we are to file taxes separately, which would cost me 3,000 compared to splitting the costs filing jointly, and - $1200 a month spousal support for 24 months! and we were married only 3-1/2 years. Yes, I know... .it's the game. The kicker was that she wants wages garnished. So basically, she is asking for a total of $88,000 plus the nine months I paid temporary spousal support.

Oh wait, there's another kicker. Six weeks ago, my wife bought a condo! Yes, the woman who is living in my home while I pay the mortgage and all utilities now owns a condo that is worth as much as my home.

We have a trial date in three months. I need to be patient. I have an idea from my attorney that she will go as low as 15,000 for the equity/cottage request. I now know that she has a condo payment to make every month, and with a mid-July trial date, she'll be dealing with making house payments without cash money in spousal support. There's no wiggle room on marital retirement - I put in 45K and she put in 5K, and she walks away with 22.5K from me. What bugs me is that a spouse can claim half of the equity when I paid the mortgage, taxes, insurance, major improvements, and all utilities for the entire time of the marriage, owned the home six months before we got married, and she bought groceries. I cannot believe how deeply this woman suckered me in that I didn't even think to have a prenup drawn up. I'm going to be working that one out in therapy for some time.

So, if you're still with me, it seems I have to document every dollar I spent on the home for 3.5 years of marriage and figure out what portion of the equity I paid using premarital savings, which declined from $80,000 to 22,000 in the 3.5 years I was married to her. Can I document enough premarital home expense to drop her half of the equity below 10,000? It would have to be that low to break even on the cost of a trial. Or do I simply offer the 15,000 and call it a day? What my attorney is saying is that I won't get credit for paying for my house out of my salary. She gets half. This blows.

I really don't know what to do but try to do the complicated financial analysis and see how it comes out. I could stall and see if she caves and settles for less, but there's work related to preparing for trial that will have attorney's fees.

I did tell my attorney that she cannot go stretches of time out of contact again.

I wonder if I should insist on my attorney filing a motion to get my wife out of my house. How can she own a home and be entitled to live in mine while I pay the bills for it?

The good news - I asked my attorney if she's any good at trial. She said she has lost only two cases in 19 years. She's lost some items within cases, but only two real losses. She says she thrives in the courtroom. That's bad for your wife, she said. She's going to arrange for a final settlement conference and schedule depositions for the same day, just in case it doesn't settle.

Thanks everyone.

The Teacher

[livednlearned]

I did tell my attorney that she cannot go stretches of time out of contact again.

Good idea! It seems to me she also owes you an itemized bill. If she goes out of contact again, or can't produce the bill, do you feel comfortable asking her to cut her rate or something equivalent?

I wonder if I should insist on my attorney filing a motion to get my wife out of my house. How can she own a home and be entitled to live in mine while I pay the bills for it?

I think this might be fairly standard   although you could argue that since she now has a condo, she needs to move out, and introduce that as a new development.

The good news - I asked my attorney if she's any good at trial. She said she has lost only two cases in 19 years. She's lost some items within cases, but only two real losses. She says she thrives in the courtroom. That's bad for your wife, she said. She's going to arrange for a final settlement conference and schedule depositions for the same day, just in case it doesn't settle.

Hopefully she isn't blowing smoke about her litigation record. I'm not sure what her stats mean in terms of family law court, because most cases are a collection of items carved into tiny pieces. Hopefully she means what she says.

What does your attorney hope to gain from doing a deposition?

As for doing the detailed work of tracking expenses, if doing that work increases your assertiveness, then it may be more than worth it. Having my claims and my reality backed up with facts gave me a kind of confidence I didn't necessarily have, especially during the marriage. And that confidence translated into something. During my deposition, when I was so sure of what happened and had documentation to back it up, while confronted with my ex's absurdities, knowing my own case down to the smallest detail helped me bring an A game I didn't know I had. At one point, I saw fear in my ex's eyes.

Sometimes depositions are for the opposing attorneys to get a sense of whether you are a credible witness. If you are, they may be very motivated to get their client to settle.

Depending on how small your community is, it might be worth trying to find out whether your L's rep for litigating is true.

Think of it like doing a background check before doing a prenup on her before you go to trial.

[GaGrl]

Can't you bring the condo into the settlement discussion? As in, "I won't place any claim on your condo if you release chain on XYZ."

[DoxieLover]

Excellent point, gagrl!  You guys aren't divorced yet, so the condo should be a joint asset just like your cottage.  Besides, if your wife isn't working then she must have used community funds to buy the condo.  I would DEFINITELY run this by your attorney.

Good luck!

[The Teacher]

Excellent point, gagrl!  You guys aren't divorced yet, so the condo should be a joint asset just like your cottage.  Besides, if your wife isn't working then she must have used community funds to buy the condo.  I would DEFINITELY run this by your attorney.

Good luck!

Except that more than a month ago, opposing counsel sent my attorney asking if I would sign off on dower rights, and my lawyer replied to it (bcc to me) saying "Yes he will sign off on dower." However, she never explained it to me. I expected it was a form I would get from her bank asking me to sign a letter. Remember, my attorney didn't communicate with me for 55 days. When I read my wife's draft separation agreement, it stated that she had bought a condo on March 16th.

[insideout77]

You desperately need a new attorney , this story is makin me sick to my stomach, your played in every front and you need an attorney who is going to get aggressive and offensive

[The Teacher]

You desperately need a new attorney, this story is makin me sick to my stomach, your played in every front and you need an attorney who is going to get aggressive and offensive

Thanks for your feedback. This morning, I asked her to file a motion to get me back into my home. I emailed it, then I called and left a voicemail on my way to work, then I called on the way home from work and caught her admin. I told her admin that I will be calling to check up on the status of this request on Monday. If I don't hear Monday, I'm going over to the office.

I have an appointment scheduled with an attorney for Thursday. I have a one-hour consult for a second opinion about my trial options.

I don't think my wife is living in my home. I think she's moved into her new condo. I spoke with a neighbor and she told me my house is almost always dark inside.

[livednlearned]

Except that more than a month ago, opposing counsel sent my attorney asking if I would sign off on dower rights, and my lawyer replied to it (bcc to me) saying "Yes he will sign off on dower." However, she never explained it to me. I expected it was a form I would get from her bank asking me to sign a letter. Remember, my attorney didn't communicate with me for 55 days. When I read my wife's draft separation agreement, it stated that she had bought a condo on March 16th.

On this basis alone, I wonder if you can fire your L.

By firing, I mean getting some of your retainer returned to you. Maybe others here have experience with this and can let you know how it worked in their situations.

Telling you to sign something without explaining what it is, that seems to offer you nothing while giving your ex an obvious advantage-- that seems unethical and perhaps worthy of filing a complaint with the bar.

A lot of us are appeaser types who don't get mad easily. I found that learning to get mad was therapeutic, altho a bit messy in the beginning when I still had my training wheels on. I had a terrible mediator and coparenting therapists in the middle of my divorce -- sometimes these professionals can provide opportunities to practice assertiveness that goes beyond polite persistence.

[ForeverDad]

So your lawyer said you would sign off on dower rights?  Did you ever sign off on them?  Did your lawyer explain what it meant?  Was that request and/or response made before or after she bought the condo?

If you haven't signed off on it, then don't.  Remember, these were communications in negotiations.  If nothing came of them then, in effect, nothing came of that negotiation agreement.  Or at least it is a strategy option to use in court.

As Gagrl wrote, you two are still married, the divorce is not final.  Her condo may very well be a marital asset but now your lawyer has made that issues quite murky.  The general rule is that you don't make major purchases or sales during a divorce without clear written agreements.  I have my doubts that communications between lawyers would establish a clear and fully informed agreement.  Disclaimer, we here in peer support don't claim to be lawyers.

Also, her demand for spousal support (I believe termed 'alimony' post-marriage) for two years is ridiculous in most states.  This is clearly a short term marriage and very little if any support is granted for such brief marriages.  These days spousal support or alimony is only to help the disadvantaged spouse transition into post-marital life.  She already has a condo, a home to live in, and it was a short marriage.  It's not like she gave up a career to raise children or be a homemaker for decades.  Unless your state's laws are very different from mine, seeking alimony in a short marriage is a ruse to distract you from negotiation of things that really are up for grabs.

Edit:  I think a new lawyer would advise you to never ever give any indication, in writing especially or even verbally, that you ever approved that dower query.  In the USA there are laws that state you don't have to volunteer information.  You don't always have to volunteer information that you don't want to share which could be used against you, I think.  That's another issue to seek legal advice on.

[insideout77]

Teacher,

When I started the process I went with the top recommended name in town, I interviewed him and he came across as a beast and Vicious. Said he would destroy Ex in weeks: I was taken by the bluster. After two weeks of endless frusteration I realized he was trying to handle me , I said at this time when I have been screwed by Ex , at the very least I need to have trust with my lawyer . I sent him a one line text email " effective immediatly your services will no longer be needed" and that was it , they are a dime a dozen and i had a new hired gun within the hour who works for me ;  not the reverse.

Interview 5 and go with your gut ; stop taking crap

 

[The Teacher]

Thanks everyone for your feedback

Here is the complete exchange.

From opposing counsel to my attorney, during the first week of March:

As mentioned in Court, my Client is in the process of buying a condo, and XXX Bank has asked that he sign off on his dower rights before she can get final approval.  Would you kindly contact your Client and find out if he will cooperate with XXXBank's request, and then give me an update?


My attorney's complete reply:
Yes. He will sign off on dower.

==================

I was copied on that message, but did not reply to it. Actually, I just realized that I was not blind copied, as she usually does when communicating with opposing counsel. Anyway, I presumed that this meant that XX bank would send me something about dower rights to sign off on, I would discuss it with my attorney, and negotiate. I never heard from my attorney until my hearing last week, at which I learned that my wife had purchased this condo and also read in the draft separation agreement from my wife's attorney what dower rights meant. I am really upset that my attorney did

I understand that this is not a forum to give legal advice. I do not plan to take this lying down. I will meet with other attorneys this week, while continuing to badger my attorney to draft a motion to get me back into my house. I called a neighbor, who said that my house has been dark (doesn't look like anyone is living in it). I'm talking to another neighbor tomorrow.

Chances are she will claim that she bought the condo with her inheritance, so it's untouchable anyway. But still, she doesn't need two houses!

Yes, the spousal support is ridiculous. I'm not settling on that. My offer was $750 a month for five months, since I have already provided temporary spousal support for nine months. My next offer (if there is one), will be more like $600 for four months.

I'm pretty sure we are headed towards trial. I also think she will settle when she realizes she has housing bills to pay and zero settlement money or support.

Thanks everyone.

The Teacher