Boundaries with physical intimacy

[bananas2]

I've long been debating about posting about such a sensitive topic, but I could really use some help about how to handle setting boundaries re: my BPDh's inappropriate/unusual timing when requesting sex from me. Nothing graphic here, it's really just about "when" and "why" he wants sex/physicality, not the "how, what, or where."
When he is in "Mr. Hyde" mode, he will sometimes request we have sex - while he is mid-rage! Sometimes he asks immediately following his rage period. This is not to be mistaken for "make-up sex," as he asks for it long before we have "made-up." I've tried explaining to him that I don't want to be intimate during (or just after) his raging. I gave him the analogy that he is like the playground bully who pushes a kid down & takes their lunch, then gets mad that the kid doesn't want to play with him. He of course just gets mad & paints me black, saying I'm using sex as weapon. I try to explain that I want to be physical with him & that I'm very much attracted to him when he is being kind & loving. I can't understand why he can't get this concept.

Sadly, what usually ends up happening is that I eventually give in & end up being physically intimate with him just to stop his cruelty bc I know it will stop the emotional abuse for at least a little while so I can recover. If I don't give in, he just continues being cruel until I do. I know it's just like giving in every time to a toddler throwing a tantrum, but I'm only human & can't take the abuse for such an extended period. How do I begin to set a boundary with this? Help!

On a more light-hearted note, this reminds me of an episode of "Everybody Loves Raymond," when Debra told Ray that when she rages at him during her PMS, that what she really needs at that time is a hug. Ray's response: "This is not huggable! This a woman who shows up once a month to rip into me like a monkey on a cupcake!"

[isilme]

Ugh.  BPD is triggered by close, intimate relationships, so sex can be a messy topic (no pun intended). 

He can't get the concept because your needs and wants do not matter or register.  You cannot expect empathy or reason or logic to have any influence in this discussion, especially if a rage has happened and any emotional control that was there has been lost.  So #1 - you can't justify or explain your way out of this - there is no listening with BPD, and especially not in the midst of a rage event. 

All your H hears is invalidation and rejection.  And it sounds a lot like he's trying very hard to control you with sex.

Before things get to that point, I'd like to ask if you can find a way to leave the room or even house when he starts raging, before sexual intimacy is demanded.  Because that is the only way I can think of the change this cycle for you - don't be present.  It's a very hard thing to do, but stating that you will not accept being treated that way and will be going for a walk can be an important boundary to protect you.  It is hard to start, but important.  Your absence will in part for your H to calm down on his own, without you there.  Or he can rage at the walls, but you don't have to accept the abuse.  He's fine with how tings are - to him this is normal and acceptable behavior.  So if it's to change, only you can change it.  And since we can't change anyone but ourselves, we have to change what WE do as the "nons".  Our instinctive "fix it" responses actually feed the fire, and make things worse.  And they allow things to stay the same. 

Also, another thing:  just because the actual shouting or alarming behavior has stopped (throwing things, etc,) it does not mean the rage is over.  It just means it's transitioned into more often in our case the silent rage - silent brooding for hours/days.  So even though he's not raging at you, demanding, insisting on sex and abusing you verbally until you give in is still a rage.  It's wrong.  I am sorry you feel you have to give in just to make him stop being mean. 

H and I often are in a disconnect about sex and timing, and he is easily frustrated if I am 2 minutes late picking up on his vague cues he wants sex, which can lead to days of silent treatment and uncomfortable home life.  But when he gets mad, the last thing he wants is to be intimate.  He hates me and paints me black at that point.  In your case, and I'm sorry to put it like this, it sounds like your H is trying to hate f*** you to put you in your place and be dominant.  Maybe I am just alarmed at how I am reading your descriptions, but I hope you have someone or somewhere you could go if you need to.  This does not sound like intimacy.  You're right, it's not "make up sex" where you are both restablishing you still like/love each other.  It sounds like it's about him browbeating you into servicing him so he can eel right about his rage, about being in control, and that is not a place I think you should be. 

[bananas2]

Thank you, Isilme for your reply. I am physically disabled and therefore often unable to leave my home. He knows this and uses it against me.
Please don't apologize for "putting it like this," but as crude as it is, "hate f***" is exactly the correct term. Thank you for your validation. I really needed someone to say it like it is. 

[isilme]

I've chosen to push past pouty behavior to be intimate, and we've gone through some periods of make-up sessions when I was at a point of almost leaving, but I can't think of a time where I'd feel I'd been in your place.  I am sorry

The problem is, unless you can somehow remove yourself from the situation, it's very hard to set boundaries.  I don't know if you have any way to set a speed dial on a phone with an automated unrelated looking message that tells a friend or relative to come knock on the door with an urgent errand - like "my washer broke and I need clothes ASAP!"  or something that means come intervene for you.  Most pwBPD don't like their rage and anger on display and will "behave" of be forced to calm down when an outsider comes in.

[Grey Kitty]

One way to look at this is in terms of enforcing boundaries to protect yourself. Removing yourself from the situation is the answer for this.

I'd normally suggest you physically leave, except that you cannot some of the time due to your physical disabilities. In that situation, I'd normally suggest you turn to law enforcement or domestic violence agencies, and you have expressed that you cannot do this as well.

I'm not sure what to suggest--when it hits this point, you really don't have a lot of options. Enforcing boundaries against verbal/emotional abuse is much easier if you can catch it earlier. Or perhaps you can validate or otherwise deflect. I am going to guess when you are unable to leave due to your disability, you are tired, in pain, or both, and that takes away from your mental strength and energy as well--making it harder for you to be "ON" and respond to provocations at your best... .at least my validation skills seem to require me to be at my best.

Sadly, what usually ends up happening is that I eventually give in & end up being physically intimate with him just to stop his cruelty bc I know it will stop the emotional abuse for at least a little while so I can recover.

  That sounds like exchanging one form of abuse for another, and it can't feel good or right for you.

It is a tough choice and a tough position to be in. Only you can say what feels right for you. 

[JoeBPD81]

Well, as a man, I can tell you that behavior is awful. I can't picture that lack of empathy.

My ex-wife used to tell me that when she was all mad, what she wanted was a hug, so the response from Raymond made me smile.

It seems to be a gender side of BPD, at least from my point of view. I can't excuse men for emotionally or otherwise abuse some woman. I can't give them any sympathy. It seems to me pure selfishness, not a dissorder. There are all kinds of red flags, and this is not only wrong, but it is punishable by law.

I want my GF, I want to have sex everyday, and in a desperate matter, because we had intimacy about twice in the last 10 months. I provide for her and her kids, and she doesn't work... .None of that gives me the right to demand sex. IT IS NOT A RIGHT. Also, I wouldn't want to have sex with her if it isn't when and only when she wants me too. Sometimes she had wanted but felt bad afterwards and that tortured me for weeks.

It seems he gets turned on by his own power (over you), or sense of control. But sex is not only about being turned on, much less if only one of the people involved is enjoying it. We are not animals! We sometimes take sex as the closest thing to affection we feel we can get. But you know how it leaves you feeling after. You won't believe me being a guy, but I've been there, having sex when all I wanted was to run away and cry, but wouldn't dare to disappoint her, and even feeling a lousy husband for not wanting to have sex when she demanded it. That lead to a lot of pain, madness and break up. I can't picture myself having intimacy with my ex-wife ever again, it scares me (and her abuse was so very mild compared with your story). When I told her how I felt and ask her for space for healing, it took a huge weight off of me.

It should be about both wanting to share intimacy, and love. I know sometimes is not about that and it's just fun and exciting, but it HAS to be for both of you.

Even before love, comes respect. I would demand both of those thinks if he wants to jump in bed with you. If not, let him Fxxx something he doesn't love or respect, like a doll or something. You deserve better than that, any human being deserves better than that. You are not something he can use until you can't take it anymore. If he loves you, this has to stop. You won't be using sex to manipulate him, you don't hold sex to get him to do something, you are just stopping something that is wrong, and that will kill your marriage if left unaddressed.

I don't know if this gives you any idea as to how to get these boundaries you need, but I hope it helps somehow.

Stay strong!

[bananas2]

Thank you all for your replies thus far. Much appreciated.
Joe - A special thanks to you for giving me a male perspective. When hub is not in "Mr. Hyde" mode, I think I may be able to paraphrase to him some of what you said & it may indeed help. Thanks!