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Author Topic: "I don't care" Attitude, Provoking Jealousy..  (Read 484 times)
Hlinthewiking
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: In a relationship living apart
Posts: 221


« on: March 24, 2017, 10:17:04 AM »

Hi guys, I'm sorry to say but I'm not so glad to be back :/.

I was away for 1-2 months because being here reminds me of my exBPDgf, but I think I should come back.

I'v been in a relationship with a Bipolar1/BPD for just under 3 months now and things are taking a turn for the worse.

This week we have 2 major fights, the first one scared me the most because she never had a tantrum like this, where it would last over 24h. It got to a point where I had to physically restrain her for 10 minutes or more where she was trying to harm me and had already tared a piece of her clothes that she loves and later regretted.

Yesterday she started telling me of how several people have complemented on her breasts, mentioned men and women of all sexual orientations, people she worked with as in co-workers, photographers and etc. She does things like that from time to time and I don't know why, she either does on purpose to provoke me or she's simply so disconnected that she believes it's ok to say it.

I told her that she shouldn't say things like that to me, that it hurts me, that if I had done that to her she would be hurt and jealous too. She then started on a feminist crusade making me a repugnant sexist misogynous that was protecting perverts. I tried to give her examples to try to make her understand how I felt. She kept on saying breasts are just breasts and that it was men's fault that they were sexuallized. I remembered her on a picture she posted on Instagram where she was nude and her breasts where pretty much fully exposed with #tits, since that proves she knows breasts aren't just breasts and used them to get attention on social media.

We couldn't come to an agreement, she kept on being disgusted with me, said we should break up and thanked me for the happy times. At the same time she started making countless posts on Facebook in love with dancers and singers with in love faces and hearts. I think she's been in a constant hypomanic state lately.

I don't know how to deal with this, if she has a different view point then mine that's fine, but she needs to respect me and if she knows she does something and I'm telling it's hurting me she shouldn't take it for granted.

The last fight we had she started saying that she wanted to see girls (she's bisexual), said we should go to parties to pick up girls and I got upset, I tried telling her that it wasn't cool the way she said it, asked if she was joking or being serious, because that's a thing. Eventually during the conversation I told her I previously had a fantasy doing a threesome but after meeting her I didn't want it anymore and I didn't think I could do it, that then triggered her and she had a fit for 2 days calling me names, breaking up with me and saying she was upset thinking about me with 2 other girls. She started it, I was the one who said since the beginning I didn't want it, then she diverted it back to me and made me the bad guy.

I don't know what to do. Please someone shed me some light, I can't stand going thru this again, she seems to be such a nice person despite all that's going on. What can I do? What am I doing wrong?

EDIT: When she goes into these fits, she stays on a "I don't care about anything" attitude that she herself has admitted, she said it's better not to care then to care and feel something, so she treats me like garbage and discards me as if she didn't have any feelings towards me.
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isilme
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Relationship status: Married
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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2017, 11:14:53 AM »

It's not that you are doing anything wrong - it's that she has BPD and so needs to make it about you doing things wrong.  BPD likes attention.  People with it need positive input from those NOT close to them to fight back against their internal negative self loathing.  You can offer it, and it will help a little, but to be honest, once you are accepted into the BPD bubble enough to see the tantrums and bad aspects of the person, your words and actions often mean little - they see you are a projection of themselves. 

So, she tries to get attention using her body.  She may feel it's wrong since she's in a relationship with you, and that it's not fair to you, but she can't accept feeling bad about it on her own.  So she pokes at you knowing it will upset you, knowing it will cause the fight she needs to justify being upset with you over her feeling upset with herself. 

H will be in a bad mood.  He will invent reasons to be mad at me to make his bad mood retroactively my fault.  He can't deal with his emotions on his own, and needs a fight to vent them.  He needs a place to blame them.  I am the person who while he fears I will abandon him, he is most comfortable lashing out at, as I am seen as part of him.  That's just my feeling about how all this seems to work.

The first thing you have to do if you want to stay in this r/s, is accept that you as the more stable person will always, always have more responsibility in it.  Responsibility for walking away from an argument, to responsibility for kids or pets. 

The next thing is to accept that you can. not. explain. or. reason. with an unreasonable person.  You feelings, your logic, your explanations don't matter in the light if HER internal feelings and truth.  And truth will be what helps her feel less shame and responsibility for drama. 

Added to this, you've got Bipolar issues - so it's going to take a lot of strength, understanding, and resolve from you to pick your boundaries, stick to them, and do what you can to minimize conflict by learning how "normal" reactions (if I just explain she won't be mad!) actaully make things worse. 
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Lost in Desert
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« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2017, 11:44:47 AM »

My man, you are very good with your words, so safe to say you are intelligent.  I am by far no expert, but what I can say is.  WHY?  Why put yourself through this, you have no ties that bind. 

Instead, look internally and find out how or why you are attracting these types.  That would be my focus.

Brian
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abraxus
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Posts: 101


« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2017, 02:32:18 PM »

It's not that you are doing anything wrong - it's that she has BPD and so needs to make it about you doing things wrong.  BPD likes attention.  People with it need positive input from those NOT close to them to fight back against their internal negative self loathing.  You can offer it, and it will help a little, but to be honest, once you are accepted into the BPD bubble enough to see the tantrums and bad aspects of the person, your words and actions often mean little - they see you are a projection of themselves. 

This is so true, although I see it in a slightly different light.

Someone with BPD needs validation, but it isn't simply a one shot deal and all's well; it's constant.

So, in the beginning they seek your approval and validation, hence the idealisation and excessively good behaviour. Once they've got your stamp of approval, it feels good for a while, but then they realise it's not enough. It's then a huge problem, as you've got no more validation to give, as effectively you've already "approved" them.

Now they're faced with two choices. They can start to act up, so that you're disappointed in them, which puts them back into seeking your approval again. Or, they look to get that validation externally. Sometimes/often it's both.

The problem for the non in the relationship, is that they're unaware at the beginning, and so give that validation too quickly and easily. Equally, when he/she acts up, and gives you reason to withdraw it, it's all too easy to give it all back again, because you're so happy when they start being good again, and so it's back to square one. The point being, that you can never reach a stable state, where you're both just happy and comfortable with each other. They need a constant supply of validation, and when they feel you're happy with them, they realise you're tapped out as a source, and so will get it elsewhere.

It's hugely frustrating, and in many cases it's easier to walk away in the long run. However, if you have the emotional strength and patience, you can make it work. The best way I've found is to picture your validation as a tap. In the beginning you trickle it out, and they're on their best behaviour, looking for more and more, until eventually you're pouring it out. At that point they know from experience they haven't completely drained the well, and so their behaviour starts to switch. The most common reaction to that, which they're conditioned to expect, as it's human nature, is that you turn the tap even higher, in order to win them back, because that's what you think they want. However, at some point, it flips a switch in them, and it becomes apparent that they're no longing seeking and winning your approval, and that you're now seeking theirs. In other words, the dynamic has reversed, and the person who once sought validation, sees themselves as the one who's being asked to provide it. Like it or not, that's just simply a position they can't handle, for a whole host of reasons.

The key then, in my experience, is to be more in control of your tap. By all means turn it on when it's deserved, but cautiously, and never too much. When things go against you, then don't increase the flow, dial it back or turn it off. Ideally you want to create the impression that you've always got more to give, but that they have to constantly work for it. Otherwise, if they think they've got it all from you, they'll look elsewhere, and often jump ship.

Obviously this is just my take, but it seems borne out by the fact that if and when they do return, it's either after a period on no contact, or low contact where you appear somewhat indifferent. They know you have validation to give, but now you're withholding it, and so they seek to get it from you again. Whereas those who beg, chase and plead, tend to get nowhere, because they're giving their supply away for free. There's nothing mean, nasty, vindictive, or calculating about this "recycling", it's just a conditioned response.

People like to say that love is unconditional, but to those with BPD it's absolutely conditional. Their self esteem is solely based on them feeling that they've earned and worked hard for your love, trust and support. So, the more freely you give it, the more quickly they're satisfied, and the less they value you for having what they perceive as "low standards".

The push/pull dynamic, so often referred to, is also just automatic behaviour. It only works because most people are wired to respond  to it. Their use of it is no more calculating than your response to it, and so each party's actions and reactions feeds the other, in a series of automatically triggered responses. It's basically about the thrill of the chase, where ultimately they're happier (probably not the right word) doing the chasing, and disoriented when you allow yourself to be caught, and totally confused and dissatisfied when it goes full circle and you're chasing them.
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Hlinthewiking
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: In a relationship living apart
Posts: 221


« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2017, 10:54:02 PM »

I'd like to thank you all for the replies, I was in bad shape since I woke up and they helped me feel better. At the same time I felt really sad that this is happening all over again and I can't take the relationship as a RELATIONSHIP and I need to take it as a push/pull game. If that proves to be the case, I'm ending it ;(.

I spoke to her today and she pretended like nothing had happened, then she realized I was still upset, she asked me and I said I was, I said why I was upset and she asked what I wanted her to do. I said I wanted her to apologize and I needed her not to do that again, she did but I felt it more like a "I don't mean it, but please don't leave me".

After a while things were fine again... Then at night she started to feel insecure and shortly after me comforting her, a female friend of mine who sought my advice a couple weeks ago about being interested in someone, came to me to tell me she went out with him and that things didn't go well. My partner then came to me already a bit upset because she saw me online and I wasn't talking to her, so she implied I was seeing someone else, I said I wasn't and I explained, said who it was, since she knows this friend of mine and then another fight started... .

This time I did my best to remain cool and be very supportive of her, I had to leave the phone for 10min though because I was cooking dinner and I told her that. When I came back her fit had worsened and she had blocked me. We spoke on a different social media, she pretty much blamed me for not having friends and said that she couldn't have friend because she was too pretty and the guys would always hit on her and I wouldn't let her be friends with them, so she was breaking up with me because I was holding her back.

Fun night, gotta say, I'v been trying to update here for the past 4 hours but I was too busy calming her down. We actually had another fight after that because of a joke I made...

When she calmed down the first time she was thankful of my patience, I asked her a favor, said I wanted to go with her one day this week and speak with her on therapy, she denied at first, then I said I was being polite and I wasn't asking. She told me she's been lying to her therapist for god know how long, because she was afraid of her therapist reprehending her and that she liked when her therapist complimented her, so her therapist is only seeing her once every 15 days because the therapist thinks everything is ok.

Any suggestions? I think things are heading for the worst as in both her conditions are aggravated, my therapist told me by what I'm telling him, she should be committed (again). I'm physically and mentally drained from so much arguing, I know I need to preserve myself but at the same time I want to support her. After the last argument we had today she started having hallucinations again, that means she's really getting worse.

How am I going to "make" her stop lying to the therapist and go at least 2 times a week like she should? If she doesn't do it, she won't improve, her shrink needs to up her meds too... .If she was controlled, she would never have hallucinations of stay in Mania for so long.
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abraxus
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Posts: 101


« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2017, 10:10:11 PM »

I'd like to thank you all for the replies, I was in bad shape since I woke up and they helped me feel better. At the same time I felt really sad that this is happening all over again and I can't take the relationship as a RELATIONSHIP and I need to take it as a push/pull game. If that proves to be the case, I'm ending it ;(.

It's worse than a push/pull game. With a regular girl, a bit of "push", either deliberate or just natural aloofness, will probably get her chasing you a bit, but you have a bit of slack to work with, and so can play it by ear. With a BPD girl, they're much more tightly calibrated and so, whilst a little push (or even pull) may work, the tiniest bit too much, even accidental, will trigger her, and she'll either get angry or withdraw.

Basically, you need to be totally emotionally unaffected by her push/pull, as well as a push/pull ninja yourself, in order to make things work. If not, then probably better to walk away.
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isilme
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Relationship status: Married
Posts: 2714



« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2017, 11:11:11 AM »

Excerpt
How am I going to "make" her stop lying to the therapist and go at least 2 times a week like she should? If she doesn't do it, she won't improve, her shrink needs to up her meds too... .If she was controlled, she would never have hallucinations of stay in Mania for so long.

YOU can't make her do anything.  That is the big problem.  For any form of therapy to work for any person, regardless of the issue they are facing, they have to 1) be willing to go 2) be willing and able to be honest 3) be willing to accept responsibility 4) be willing to try any changes of "homework" given to them 5) repeat.

BPD is about avoiding shame and bad feelings about one's self.  Other issues leading to depression and mania cloud that up even more. 

My mother and father are both BPD/bi-polar/manic-depressed.  They have both been in and out of therapy, on drugs to maange imbalances, and both lacked the willingness to keep it up and keep themselves maintained.  My mother refused her lithium pills because they made her "fat".  My father hated all drugs.  Also, for people who are bi-polar, to be "even" is strange.  It does not feel normal, it does not feel good, and they are so used to the highs and lows that they often ditch meds to keep what feels normal instead of trying to stay even.  There is also a tendency for a persecution fantasy/belief, paranoia, that makes T's and MDs an enemy, not to be trusted, not to be listened to.  A disordered person may go just once or sporadically so they can say, "there, I went, nothing's changed because it's not about me, it's all YOUR fault, so there!"

It's not your job to calm her down for hours.  It's not your job to make her go to her T, be honest with her T, or manage her emotions for her.  I am forever fighting my desire and inclination to try to make H "not mad", to shield him from certain things which will upset him (or that I fear will).  All this does is wear me down and trigger him.  Sometimes the best thing when their emotions are haywire is to simply not be there.  Not respond.  Not be available on messaging.  I know this is hard - believe me.  We had a blow out because my phone's signal did not pick up 4 texts from H and he decided I was ignoring him (even though he knows my old office building blocks signals).  His emotions determined what the facts were, not the actual facts.  He felt ignored and abandoned, and so he decided he WAS ignored and abandoned. 

You can support your GF but need to establish some boundaries about how to handle conflict and what you will accept from her to protect yourself.  She needs to go to T.  You may have to call the T yourself and set up your own appointment to be able to alert the T that things are bad.  You cannot rely on the GF to do it.  You can tell her that you will only text/talk to her at certain times, or when she is able to not be abusive.  If abuse starts, your phone is turning off for X many hours each time it happens.  Find something that works for you - it's not about making HER do anyhting, but making YOU stop accepting such a load.

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allienoah
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Posts: 268


« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2017, 11:31:27 AM »

Lot's of very good points being made here.
@abraxus-I love the tap analogy. I can see now why I always feel like I need to jump through another huge hoop to make my bfwBPD feel I love him. I turn the tap on way to high when he needs soothing. He actually has said to me that when something bad happens-it's always my fault you see- I overcompensate for the (imagined) infraction just to try to make peace. I admit that when I commit something that hurts someone's feelings, it is my natural tendency to give them extra TLC to atone for my misdeed. You see, I KNOW for the most part if I have been snippy or insensitive, or indirect. My problem is accepting his view that EVERYTHING is somehow my fault, and making me responsible for his feelings/actions/moods.
We are starting couples therapy tonight and I am wondering what I should say that will shed light on what I deal with in a non-threatening manner/non-judging manner.
Any suggestions? I really want the T to see his condition as he can be super charming and it could take weeks before it is uncovered.
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Grey Kitty
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Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 7182



« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2017, 08:34:32 AM »

I'm physically and mentally drained from so much arguing, I know I need to preserve myself but at the same time I want to support her.

Consider what those two things you want to do, and look at where they are not in conflict.

Especially getting into hours and hours of arguments. That doesn't do either one!

It obviously is harming you.

It also doesn't help her--letting her use you as an emotional (or even physical!) punching bag as a coping mechanism isn't good for her, and it isn't supporting her.

It is being codependent and enmeshed with her, and will help her stay "stuck" instead of growing or making progress.
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