Sexual dysfunction

[g2outfitter]

I've read several threads regarding sex... .or lack thereof... .or the controlling of.  Just the overall dysfunction of it all which was so predominate in my situation.  It was such a juggling act... ."you shouldn't initiate - I feel pressured", "why didn't you initiate", "you didn't initiate the right way", "I'm only in the mood when you're at work", "I've never had strong sexual desires", "you don't satisfy my strong sexual desires", "you're not aggressive enough", "you're too aggressive", "I want to be touched this way", "I don't like it when you touch me like that". Exhausting!  I have always been one to make sure my partner's satisfaction was met before mine but I just couldn't ever seem to make that happen with my exBPD (well not after the first love bombing year anyway).  At one time I was pretty damn confident it what I was doing in the bedroom (from what was told to me by past lovers - I humbly mention that, btw) but by the end of my exBPD relationship I felt like I was a 17 year old virgin again, sigh.

Wouldn't it have been great if our BPD partners put as much effort f'ing with our body... .as they did with our mind  (or in many cases (like mine) someone else's body).  I realize there isn't much humor to be found in this topic... .but seriously?

[In a bad way]

I'm tired wait 'till tomorrow >> >tomorrow>> I'm tired wait 'till Friday I don't have to get up early on Saturday.
Saturday>> >I'm tired wait 'till tonight
Saturday night>> ASLEEP AT 9PM, wakes up around midnight says wait 'till the morning.
Sunday afternoon>> > wakes up and says just making a coffee will be back in 5 minutes.>> >> Get a text 30 minutes later... .your coffee is going cold.
Go down she's lying on the couch ME>>I thought you were coming back to bed.
HER>>I'm tired.
ME... .You have slept for 15 hours.

Pattern repeats.

Then I get accused of never wanting sex only a cuddle. (totally the other way round)
Text her during the day telling her how much I love her and a proposition, she says we will have an early night or I never know my luck if I'm good.
99 times out of a hundred she either fell asleep by 9 or is tired.
Even got the excuse of she had a sore wrist once! I asked her if other bits were sore... .Got an evil look and silence.

When we did have sex she would say things like I thought you didn't want to do that anymore or we should do this more often.

Then in one of her last messages to me she said one of the reasons for her snapping at me was because I was always asking her for sex... .Not true I'd learned to only ask or try at weekends.

I've seen her texts to previous BF's where she is promising and teasing just like the texts to me... I wonder if they had more luck?

Yet she dragged me to bed on the first night, I thought nothing of it because we had known each other a couple of years.

Morning after sex she didn't remember... .She didn't ever remember much in the morning but that's another story.

I still loved her and still do.

[jonmnemonic]

Sex with my exBPDw was such a huge problem I started dreading the "process" pretty much immediately after getting married.  Sex was all about her and little to nothing to do with me other than I was the tool she used to satisfy her desires or blame me if I didn't measure up to her expectations.  Like you said, do this, don't do that.  Lots of no win situations.  Sometimes taking 3 hours or more of jumping through all of her hoops to do what only she really wanted at that point.  Nothing normal or pleasant about it for the most part.  There were the rare occasions when it was good but those were definitely the exception not the rule.

Come to think of it, there wasn't anything that would be considered normal in the relationship that wasn't difficult with my ex.  Oh course she blamed me for making everything difficult.  If only I had just "stepped it up" or "been all in" or "changed my thinking to be more like hers" we could have had a really successful marriage.  

[abraxus]

In my experience, BPD or otherwise, women (or at least all the ones I've known), prefer a man to take the lead sexually, and way more so with BPD women. This is a common relationship problem and, like most, is merely exaggerated in a BPD relationship.

Sure, she may protest, and may seem to want to take charge but, more often than not, it's a reaction to what she see's as you not taking charge. That may be directly and sexually, or it may be that she uses sex as means to vent her frustration at you not taking charge elsewhere.

The biggest problem, which only makes things worse, is giving in to it, as now she'll just keep changing the rules, and you'll never know what's right or wrong if you play by hers. Much like a child, a challenge from a person with BPD is a test. They don't want to be in charge, no matter what they say, because they can't handle it. They want you to be, and when they perceive you not to be they'll rebel, test and challenge, not to get their way, but in the hope that at some point you'll put your foot down and provide the boundaries that they need. Of course when you don't, they'll push harder, mostly in desperation of finding your limit and so, when you keep giving in and pandering to them, they just get frustrated, angry, and eventually bitter.

Like I said, this is common to many relationships, and is just more extremely manifested where BPD is involved.

[g2outfitter]

In my experience, BPD or otherwise, women (or at least all the ones I've known), prefer a man to take the lead sexually, and way more so with BPD women. This is a common relationship problem and, like most, is merely exaggerated in a BPD relationship.

Sure, she may protest, and may seem to want to take charge but, more often than not, it's a reaction to what she see's as you not taking charge. That may be directly and sexually, or it may be that she uses sex as means to vent her frustration at you not taking charge elsewhere.

The biggest problem, which only makes things worse, is giving in to it, as now she'll just keep changing the rules, and you'll never know what's right or wrong if you play by hers. Much like a child, a challenge from a person with BPD is a test. They don't want to be in charge, no matter what they say, because they can't handle it. They want you to be, and when they perceive you not to be they'll rebel, test and challenge, not to get their way, but in the hope that at some point you'll put your foot down and provide the boundaries that they need. Of course when you don't, they'll push harder, mostly in desperation of finding your limit and so, when you keep giving in and pandering to them, they just get frustrated, angry, and eventually bitter.

Like I said, this is common to many relationships, and is just more extremely manifested where BPD is involved.

You make some good points... .and lots of generalizations.  I do have two question though... .when you say "she may protest" as a reaction to me not taking charge, are you suggesting I not give in (as you say) to her protest and just have my way with her anyway? You know, take charge in order to get rid of her frustrations?  I think that's a pretty fine line considering the BPD lady I am dealing with claimed to have been raped by two men as a child and molested by her grandfather.

From what I can tell, the needs or preferences of pwBPD seem to change at a moments notice and for no apparent reason.  In or out of the bedroom.  It's a puzzle in which the pieces keep changing form.

At least that is what my exBPD would tell me... .on her good days anyway.

[abraxus]

You make some good points... .and lots of generalizations.  I do have two question though... .when you say "she may protest" as a reaction to me not taking charge, are you suggesting I not give in (as you say) to her protest and just have my way with her anyway? You know, take charge in order to get rid of her frustrations?  I think that's a pretty fine line considering the BPD lady I am dealing with claimed to have been raped by two men as a child and molested by her grandfather.

From what I can tell, the needs or preferences of pwBPD seem to change at a moments notice and for no apparent reason.  In or out of the bedroom.  It's a puzzle in which the pieces keep changing form.

At least that is what my exBPD would tell me... .on her good days anyway.

Yes, there are lots of generalisations, because each person is different and, like I said, I can only speak of my own experiences.

NO! I'm not suggesting at all that you not give in by having your way anyway. That would be abhorrent, immoral, illegal and abusive. What I'm saying is that you assert yourself more by taking the lead, and initiating. Of course she'll likely resist, because that's what's she's used to, but then you knew that. The key then is not getting your way, but how you react to it. If you react in a pouty way, or by complaining, or saying that you tried but can't figure out what she wants, then you fail, as you've shown her that you're letting her control your emotions.

Instead, just back off, happily, showing her that it doesn't bother you at all. At the very least that will signify confidence and self control to her. Then, if she hasn't moved away, try again. Each time try confidently and assuredly, but never either aggressively or tentatively. If that fails, then rinse and repeat when the opportunity arises. That demonstrates persistence, without neediness which, along with confidence and self control, are appealing characteristics.

To be honest their needs and preferences don't change that often, and usually not for no reason, it's just that the reasons may not be logical and so may seem less apparent. Of course what they say they want may change minute by minute, but what someone says they want isn't necessarily what they really want. What someone does, and how they act, are far more important and revealing than what they say, and so you have to learn to read and understand their actions more, and in particular body language.

Yes, it's a puzzle, but one that's made much more complicated if you're looking at the wrong pieces.

[g2outfitter]

Yes, there are lots of generalisations, because each person is different and, like I said, I can only speak of my own experiences.

NO! I'm not suggesting at all that you not give in by having your way anyway. That would be abhorrent, immoral, illegal and abusive. What I'm saying is that you assert yourself more by taking the lead, and initiating. Of course she'll likely resist, because that's what's she's used to, but then you knew that. The key then is not getting your way, but how you react to it. If you react in a pouty way, or by complaining, or saying that you tried but can't figure out what she wants, then you fail, as you've shown her that you're letting her control your emotions.

Instead, just back off, happily, showing her that it doesn't bother you at all. At the very least that will signify confidence and self control to her. Then, if she hasn't moved away, try again. Each time try confidently and assuredly, but never either aggressively or tentatively. If that fails, then rinse and repeat when the opportunity arises. That demonstrates persistence, without neediness which, along with confidence and self control, are appealing characteristics.

To be honest their needs and preferences don't change that often, and usually not for no reason, it's just that the reasons may not be logical and so may seem less apparent. Of course what they say they want may change minute by minute, but what someone says they want isn't necessarily what they really want. What someone does, and how they act, are far more important and revealing than what they say, and so you have to learn to read and understand their actions more, and in particular body language.

Yes, it's a puzzle, but one that's made much more complicated if you're looking at the wrong pieces.

Thanks for the explanation abraxus. 

I appreciate you saying that you are only speaking from your own experiences because my experiences must be much different than your own.  I agree with you about one thing though... .what my ex BPD said she wanted, rarely described how she acted.  She said she wanted to be with me forever... .in the end she acted like she never wanted me at all.

I think I will just look for someone whose actions coincide with their words.  I'm kind of old school that way .

Thanks again for responding.

[abraxus]

Be prepared, much of what I said applies to regular people too. The main difference I've found with BPD is that their actions are just a lot more extreme, and they have much narrower tolerances. However, the underlying motivations and emotions often come from the same places, and often respond to the same stimuli, albeit more tightly calibrated to suit.

Few people's actions coincide with their words. When a BPD says they want to be with you forever, they mean it when they say it, just a like a regular person. Still, even a regular person's feelings change, and they too can act as though they never wanted it, just not as quickly or extremely as someone with BPD.

Go to any relationship forum and see countless people saying that they can't believe their husband/wife/bf/gf left them, and has run off with someone else, and is now being cold and stand offish, after declaring undying love in the past. The problems people face with BPD partners are no different to those regular people face, just more extreme. So, you enjoy the extreme upside while it lasts, and the price is a more rapid and extreme downside.

None of it is logical or rational, because relationships, BPD or otherwise, are based on emotions, which are entirely illogical. The foundations are respect, attraction and desire, and no amount of logic can reason that into a person. That's why I'm sceptical of the tools and strategies for BPD as, whilst they can assist communication, they do nothing to enhance or rebuild respect, attraction and desire, without which any relationship will fail, no matter how well you can communicate.

[CooperD]

Hi folks,

Realte so much to what has been written above.

My ex-BPD wife (no contact almost 3 months now) used sex as a weapon in our relationship and I would say engaged in sexually abusing me to destroy my self-confidence and sense of worth.

At the start she would refer to our "yummy sex" and that I was the best she ever had.

It quickly descened into abuse as she split me black in the context of the wider relationship.

She threatened that she was going to find another guy to give her sex / she told me how she was going to become a stripper / she started referring to her own genitalia as her cockroach pusxsy / she told me she was going to buy a dildo to replace me / she told me how she had been out sucking anothet guy / she told me how people say she is a good fuxk / she would lay masturbating at the side of me and refuse to allow me to be involved / she would scream at me if we were being intimate and I did something wrong.

The worst was when she asked me to have sex with her to bring us closer and then immediately afterwards said in an ice cold voice "that was rape". She then spent hours emotionally torturing me telling me she was going to lie to the police and say I raped her (luckily I had turned my phone on and recorded the entire episode without her knowledge).

She turned what should be one of the best and most loving things in  a relationship into a weapon of her war against me.

Evil is how I describe what I have written above but I now just thank my lucky stars I got away from that sick monster before it destroyed me.

[cubicinch]

my ex girlfriend was quite promiscuous (or thought she was) when it came to sex. Sex was just sex, there was little affection within it. It was a tool to use to attract me, and keep me. Even after some months together, I had to slow her down and try to force some affection into love making. She just didn't seem to get it. SHe even suggested she do certain things to me that where more S&M belittling me, maybe not overpowering me, but lacking respect for me as a partner. It's almost borderline Psychopath I'd think?

Another thing, I was immediately questioned as to whether I was able to 'get it hard' on our first encounter. I was disturbed by this... not the sort of thing you say to a guy you just met, potential to make him lose his erection straight away!

[bus boy]

 Sex was never an issue with Xw considering she came from a sexually abusive family, not saying Xw was molested but her grandfather was charged for molesting his children and his grandchildren, weather she was one of the grandchildren or not, I will never know, Xw kept a very tight lip in regard to her past, I know as much about today as I did the first time I met her. But sexually she was quiet active, she wanted sex on our second date, after our first sexual encounter she actually demanded that she wanted sex everyday and was very clear that she wasn't kidding. She made it clear she would never shower with me and she never wanted me to see her body, she had a nice body and I told her often times that she was beautiful and had a beautiful body but she would tell me not to jiggle her fat but she wasn't fat. Xw was very sexual but was very insecure about her body. She never initiated sex, was not affectionate, was not intimate. Xw left when our son was 4 months old, he's 10 now, Xw and I had a sexual r/s for all those years, June 2015 was our last sexual encounter. It is confusing to be told how horrible I treated her but she still had sex with me for 8 years after she left our home.

[Huh?]

My waif/hermit ex... .I saw her breasts maybe 2 times, in 5 years.  She wouldn't take her top off because she felt insecure that they werent big enough.  No matter how much I told her she was perfect over the years, it didn't matter.  Lots of other rules, she wasn't interested in giving or receiving oral.  If I kissed to close... .she would put both her hands over herself... .and cross her legs.

Yet, she liked the thrill of having sex in "dangerous" places... .or in the car somewhere.

She randomly would cry during sex... .especially when we got back together after the first "break" she initiated.  

Towards the end, there was no sex.  After about two years of her lack of interest in sex and feeling like she was friend zoning me... .I finally ended it.  I figured she had to be seeing other men... .which according to her she was... .but they were "just friends, that I didn't like because they only wanted sex"

Her sexual repression was analogous to pretty much her entire closed off attitude for the duration of our relationship; she would never let me in... .therefor no intimacy could develop on any level.

[Huh?]

Sex was never an issue with Xw considering she came from a sexually abusive family, not saying Xw was molested but her grandfather was charged for molesting his children and his grandchildren, weather she was one of the grandchildren or not, I will never know, Xw kept a very tight lip in regard to her past, I know as much about today as I did the first time I met her. But sexually she was quiet active, she wanted sex on our second date, after our first sexual encounter she actually demanded that she wanted sex everyday and was very clear that she wasn't kidding. She made it clear she would never shower with me and she never wanted me to see her body, she had a nice body and I told her often times that she was beautiful and had a beautiful body but she would tell me not to jiggle her fat but she wasn't fat. Xw was very sexual but was very insecure about her body. She never initiated sex, was not affectionate, was not intimate. Xw left when our son was 4 months old, he's 10 now, Xw and I had a sexual r/s for all those years, June 2015 was our last sexual encounter. It is confusing to be told how horrible I treated her but she still had sex with me for 8 years after she left our home.

It's funny, the prettiest and in best shape women I've ever been with... .a cluster b and waif/hermit... .were the only two women who I've been with that refused to wear a swimsuit... .in public or private.   I can't fathom that level of crippling insecurity.   

[Huh?]

Hi folks,

Realte so much to what has been written above.

My ex-BPD wife (no contact almost 3 months now) used sex as a weapon in our relationship and I would say engaged in sexually abusing me to destroy my self-confidence and sense of worth.

At the start she would refer to our "yummy sex" and that I was the best she ever had.

It quickly descened into abuse as she split me black in the context of the wider relationship.

She threatened that she was going to find another guy to give her sex / she told me how she was going to become a stripper / she started referring to her own genitalia as her cockroach pusxsy / she told me she was going to buy a dildo to replace me / she told me how she had been out sucking anothet guy / she told me how people say she is a good fuxk / she would lay masturbating at the side of me and refuse to allow me to be involved / she would scream at me if we were being intimate and I did something wrong.

The worst was when she asked me to have sex with her to bring us closer and then immediately afterwards said in an ice cold voice "that was rape". She then spent hours emotionally torturing me telling me she was going to lie to the police and say I raped her (luckily I had turned my phone on and recorded the entire episode without her knowledge).

She turned what should be one of the best and most loving things in  a relationship into a weapon of her war against me.

Evil is how I describe what I have written above but I now just thank my lucky stars I got away from that sick monster before it destroyed me.




Dude, that is crazy.  I'm fortunate I've never experienced this level of mentally ill.  Sometimes I can't believe the stuff I read on here, what I've experienced seems tame compared.

[cubicinch]

my ex gf had some body dysmorphia issues as well, I had this told to me by her father after I talked to him about her, it came out. Her previous boyfriend had offered to pay for things like botox. she also wouldn't let me close oral on her because she wasn't happy with how she looked down there... she was petrified, crushingly over losing her looks, and was in menapause, on HRT and prozac for depression. A very beautiful woman, probably no trouble at all getting men, but totally messed up in her head, and nothing you could say could change it, it's deeply rooted. The sex which was just promiscuous to her that I mentioned earlier, was I think more to prove to herself that she still had it, and to get her hooks into you. she wanted sex on the second date. Of course, some of these things are fairly normal, but when you get hindsight, they tie in with the BPD traits.

[bus boy]

In my opinion, Xw used sex as a manuplation tool. Sex was readily available at the drop of a hat. In a sence I was sexually abused. She emotionally abused me, alianated my son out of my life as much as possible, had tight control over my access and I let it all happen, I guess it's not confusing as I posted earlier, she abused me with sex, the reward for complying, for letting her control was sex. She would belittle me, talk at me, do many covert abusive things and I took it all, I lowered my self, was demoralized but I thought as long as I let this happen she will come around, see that I'm a good person, love me back but it never happened, I hung around for the sex as well but I had a clean hearted agenda, she had a black hearted agenda and when she found a replacement she could fool, i was discarded like trash and treated as such ever since. In a sence Xw is no different than a prostitute only she didn't take money, payment was narcisstic supply.

[Chaffers]

 I think the ex had used sex as control in a previous relationship , first mentioned swinging and sex parties after we'd only been together for a few months. On the one hand she tended to act all innocent, even using a version of the first time then first love story. Seemed to know all the lingo though, wasn't exactly shocked or inhibited by anything and never seemed out of her depth.

 Also once told me a story over quite a bit of wine about a woman who practically adopted her, treated her as her favourite girl and would buy her champagne every night. Which sounded a bit like a brothel to me though she denied ever saying anything of the sort.

 Come to think of it she also had hair raising stories about meeting her first husband in a notorious pedophiles brothel. Her story checked out, a Guardian reporter wrote extensively about this chap, and she said they were both entirely ignorant of his business. I was sure she lied about his description though, which worried me.

 I think she had me pegged as someone she could control,  and then was endlessly trying to find more and more extreme things which might hook me. I'd rather forget her bdsm phase. She was especially obsessed with trying to get me to shag other younger women, though I think I sensed a trap.

It was almost as though she was, and I sometimes fantasied about this, some sort of spy acting as a honey trap to get compromising photos or information on me. Not that I'm anything but an ordinary dude.

She seemed to be delighted when things eventually progressed to bisexual encounters, though almost visibly gutted when it didn't really bother me. I didn't personally feel as though it changed anything, either about the way I saw myself or my sexual preferences. She seemed to be convinced that it should though and started causing arguments about our swinging. Frankly it was just about the only thing she wouldn't argue about previously and she initiated the trips to clubs or couples 95% of the time.

 She seemed to have trouble accepting that it was something I could take or leave. That being with her didn't mean access to a lifestyle I was addicted to. I'll try anything once, doesn't mean I'll go out of my way to do it again.

 At which point it became part of her abuse reel. We'd never even discussed such things except in private though it was now suitable material for public screaming. Which seemed odd, she'd normally save her abuse for private.

 

[vortex of confusion]

To be honest their needs and preferences don't change that often, and usually not for no reason, it's just that the reasons may not be logical and so may seem less apparent. Of course what they say they want may change minute by minute, but what someone says they want isn't necessarily what they really want. What someone does, and how they act, are far more important and revealing than what they say, and so you have to learn to read and understand their actions more, and in particular body language.

Ex would NOT admit to much of anything. I went out of my mind trying to figure out how to improve things in the bedroom. After 15 years of marriage, he said he was bisexual and needed a man.

In the beginning, he would look at porn and take care of himself. If I said something about it, I was being too demanding. What was my problem? He was being nice and letting me sleep.

Being tired was HUGE. He would not initiate. I had to initiate regularly or he would get grouchy. It was usually all about him and his needs. I learned to keep my mouth shut and take care of him. Forget my needs. They didn't really exist in his world. The funniest bit of all is that he is a guy yet I had to do all of the work. Doing the work also meant indulging in his fantasy to get things going. He would swear up and down that he didn't need the fantasy stuff to get interested. I tested that out a few times. If I indulged in his fantasy, things would work. If I didn't indulge in it, things would not work. He would argue with me and tell me that I was making it up.

The thing he enjoyed most was the idea of me being with another man. I indulged in that fantasy. He loved it until I started refusing to give him details. When I put up that boundary, he flipped out on me.

He would tell me that he was worried about the kids interrupting. I would put them to bed early, arrange for sitters, or find other creative ways for us to get time and privacy. No dice. All of my attempts would fall flat. (pun intended)

And I wasn't supposed to take any of it personally. I wasn't supposed to feel upset or rejected or bothered. I learned to zone out, take care of business, and keep the peace. It became very much like doing the dishes. It was a chore that I had to do to keep things running smoothly around the house.

[bauers220]

I know all relationships can have sexual issues HOWEVER... .After a healthy 17 year marriage to a man - I came out of the closet.  I had a serious live in GF who is Bp... .she was diagnosed in her late 20's... .many hospital stays for mental health issues... .electric shock therapy as well as medication for other illnesses like depression (displayed as rage) and anxiety... .the whole 9 yards.  She was on disability beginning in her 20's so by the time we met in our mid 40's - she was pretty open about "what she had been through... .how she she once was... ."  I was love bombed for 6 months... .

The sexual pressure from her was immediate - first date really... .which I declined - until the second date... .From there it was 6 months wondering if I was going to be able to keep up long term with her appetite... .Then it all stopped.  Suddenly and without warning - she closed down and began to ignore those subtle clues that were once well received.  I did bring it up after a couple of weeks and she seemed to feel really bad for not paying attention... .it was a good talk.  But alas nothing changed.

Over the course of the next couple of years - there were many patterns.  Sex brought us very close - and was amazing and open.  Then slowly she would begin to pull away in the coming days... .and I wanted to just remain close to her - to be what we once were together.  Many excuses "my stomach hurts... .I don't feel good... .I have a headache... .allergies are bothering me... .I'm tired... .I just want to cuddle".  The worst was the flirting she would do - eluding to wanting sex... .only to feel like I was hugging a stiff board later... .kissing tight lips.  If I tried to talk to her about how long it had been - or if this would ever get better - it usually lead to a fight.  I always felt like a chump for wanting to talk about it - but I felt so rejected otherwise.  I once had a girlfriend who loved to kiss me - who now said kissing her passionately was a bad trigger - and made her feel like I wanted sex.  She told me the unspoken pressure made her feel like she was with her ex husband again who always wanted sex from her - even if it was just her holding his hand - he immediately took it as a sign it was time to have sex.  She would then tell me I needed to stop trying to read her clues and just trust myself... .If I wanted to sex - I should make a move... .Yet when I did - she would turn me down to see if I would take it personally.  My trust in knowing if a partner wanted sex was gone.  What was once a beautiful dance between lovers was now a game... .wondering what her kisses meant... .wondering if she was just wanting affection or was it more... .not wanting to reject her if she did... .It came down to one of us asking if we the other wanted sex since the natural progression of affection was gone... .

I literally have ZERO confidence in myself.  I spend each day since going NC (with a restraining order I needed for my safety) - just trying to remember who I once was before all this.  I was once so confident and able to flirt... .or even be a little forward.  I met a wonderful woman 2 years ago who became my best friend... .she knows everything about me... .everything I went through... .Recently we confessed having feelings for one another.  After admitting how I felt out loud - I feel completely OFF my game!  My heart is opening slowly - but I feel more vulnerable than ever!  I have always been naturally vulnerable... .now I question if anything I say could drive someone away... .in short - I feel broken - and despite all thing - I want to love again so badly.

[PennyDreadful]

Before our breakup, I always thought that the slow down in our sex life was just kinda normal in a 20 year marriage... .but reading these posts, I see a lot of us in there! He was in bed early almost every night, afraid our daughter would hear, asleep early when DD was gone, "sorry, I already took my Ambien/lorazapam/drank too much". If anything ever DID get started, he couldn't hold up his end of the bargain (literally), or he could go for hours and never finish.

Sex became, for me, an exercise in frustration. There was always an excuse, and he never initiated. Then I was accused of never initiating, the body pillow I had was "used as a wall"... .he even accused me of cutting my hair in order to make myself unattractive to him so I could avoid sex (he didn't like short hair, but it was never THAT short!)

Of course later, his excessive porn use came out, and I discovered the reason for his disfunction and disinterest. Through the divorce discovery process, I found thousands of dollars spent on porn throughout our marriage. But that was all my fault too... .

[wellwellwell]

For years, sexual activity would only ever happen after arguments about it (who made which move when, who missed what the other was saying). My ex would often say "I'll do X on this day... ." but she never did. But if I mentioned that, she'd start breathing fire and tell me she was just about to do it until I ruined things, or that I (or someone else) had done something to mean that she couldn't. So, it was always my fault.

Once, after a long 'conversation', I was given a one-hour window later in the day. Just the times - nothing else - "OK, 7-8 tonight". It was like hostage negotiation. I remember mentioning that booking it like that didn't feel particularly romantic - self-deprecatory suggestions sometimes worked to defuse things. She didn't understand why I'd feel that way.

Tiredness was heavily weaponised, too. If I dared raise the issue while she was tired (any time after 7.30pm... .), the rage would be all consuming. I was never forgiven, just forgotten until I next offended.

Just before we separated once she told me not to make her find someone else to 'do' sex 'to' her. In retrospect, she just didn't understand what I needed as a nonBPD. A lot of the literature helps explain this. It's important to BPDs; in the same way that attention is to NPDs, maybe. But they don't have the emotional kit to understand or develop an emotional relationship around it.

As I write this I do wonder why I stayed. It was clearly a strange type of subconscious manipulation. A constant moving target. Of course, she could always get sex, because I kept doing all of the work. So far as I know she never cheated, so I don't have to process that. And I'm quite enjoying the peace and quiet since.

[marti644]

Sex started out amazing during the seduction phase. Best sex of my life. Never felt more connected.

BUTTT during the devaluation stage it became more and more about her and what she wanted and I was merely the one acting out what she wanted. Not but a few days before she discarded me I called her on this and told her she needed to make more of an effort, that this wasn't healthy and I had needs that should be met.

Her response was that "sex wasn't a priority for her right now", and that I should understand that, which of course I didn't because I was doing all the work.

Later on that night after she went home she actually texted me and said sorry if I was awkward about our conversation and she promised to be better. So I know she knew she was being unfair, even though she couldn't control herself. Because BPDs are emotionally in the early childhood stage all of these behaviours make so much sense now!

In a strange way I don't ever want to have that good of sex again, it brings up such red flags for me now! I have to give credit to those with BPD, they sure know how to demolition other humans that love them. It would be funny if it wasn't so painful.

[wellwellwell]

Later on that night after she went home she actually texted me and said sorry if I was awkward about our conversation and she promised to be better. So I know she knew she was being unfair, even though she couldn't control herself. Because BPDs are emotionally in the early childhood stage all of these behaviours make so much sense now!

I'm glad you mentioned this. I think my ex was aware to some extent of what she was doing. She wasn't totally predatory. But it was a childlike awareness. Once I realised that it was hard to feel my own anger, which didn't help me in the long run.

[marti644]

I'm glad you mentioned this. I think my ex was aware to some extent of what she was doing. She wasn't totally predatory. But it was a childlike awareness. Once I realised that it was hard to feel my own anger, which didn't help me in the long run.

This is a very strange thing to say, but once you realize you are emotionally and physically involved with someone who is two to four years old it becomes less and less easy to be angry. Young children sometimes are quite lucid in their behaviour. At times my nephew has such adult like insights into the adult world. I think its cute. But I am not surprised by his rages and his tirades when he doesn't want to go to bed. He's just a kid and he's figuring out his emotions still as he grows up.

Once I realized my ex was emotionally a child, how can I have hatred for her? She didn't choose this. I can't feel angry towards someone so sick, even though she did terrible things to me. I have to be more mature than that. To me she's just a kid.

[wellwellwell]

marti, that was exactly my experience. That's a really useful way of putting it. I still can't feel hatred, and I don't think I ever will for that reason. The problem I identified with some good help is that anger (rather than hatred) is a normal adult response to a lot of BPD behaviour. They're often attracted to people who can empathise and who have exactly that response. But the nonBPD would then find it very difficult to become angry, which is often where the emotional abuse (intentional or not) seems to start. At many levels the healthy emotional needs of the nonBPD are incompatible with what their partner can provide. Any tendency the nonBPD has to be a carer rather than care for themselves means they're more likely to stay but also less likely to have their own needs met.