Two weeks of good down the drain in a matter of moments

[coworkerfriend]

I need to write to hopefully get some of this out of my head.   I can't stop thinking - overthinking the entire day.  We have had two full weeks of really normal and nice days together.  He had decided to focus on work and seemed really motivated to get things done.   It was a relief to me since we were falling so far behind.  I was focusing on work too and we were able to be productive and get along during this time.  We even had a few dinners and evenings together that just seemed so normal. 

Early in the week, he asked me if I wanted to go to see a band with him on Saturday night.  I was feeling a bit apprehensive about going since I have been trying to detach a bit from him.  We had a good week at work and I decided to go.   The whole day and evening was so much fun - so relaxing just being together and enjoying the music.  Afterwards, he asked if I wanted to stop for dinner.  We picked a restaurant right near the club we were at - neither one of us had been there - but he was so relaxed he said he wanted to try it.   We weren't in the restaurant for 10 minutes before he got really angry about where we were seated and how crowded it was.  He literally stormed out before we even had a chance to get menus.  As we were leaving, he said that I should have planned the night out better and nothing ever works out for him.  We got in the car and he started to yell at me - I was overtired and feeling stressed  - and I couldn't keep my mouth shut.  I fought back and it got really ugly quick.  He immediately started on how unhappy he is with me and how he should have gone alone.  I said that would have been fine - he can go wherever he wants to alone.  I said that i was disappointed that he is letting a few minutes in a restaurant ruin the entire day.  He started calling me names and I told him to stop.  He said that I have been taking his abuse for years and I should shut up and continue taking it.  I got so mad - I fought with him.  Everything I know about jade, validation flew right out the window.   We got to his house and we continued to fight.  He said it is over - I said fine that I am sick of his constant threats - it got increasingly heated.  After a few minutes, I left.  He was yelling - of course you leave me - you always leave me.  I couldn't stay and fight with him. 

I got home and I couldn't sleep.   I felt terrible about the whole situation.  How I couldn't keep my mouth shut - let him rant and move along.  How I fell completely into jading and defending myself.  Trying to tell him how he should feel.   Every opportunity I got, I threw fuel into the fire.  I feel horrible about it.  I feel horrible that I fought with him.  I feel like I should apologize for losing my temper.  I guess I don't even know what to say or do anymore. 

I feel horrible that I decided to go.  I knew better.  I knew that I need to detach and I am so sad that the good time is over.   I just want peace and calm.  I want to focus on work.  I want to see him and not have the tension and negativity that has been so persistent since the beginning of the year.   Every month, I hope that this month will be better.  It never is. 

I have been going to a new therapist.  I really want to work on how I feel - why I put up with his rants and anger.  Unfortunately she keeps focusing on his need to enter treatment.  She used the analogy that I am the judge and he is a drug addict and I need to order him into rehab.  i told her that I will never be comfortable doing that and he has to make the decision to seek treatment.  That whole topic is also very depressing to me since he doesn't open up in therapy and will not accept that he can make changes.   He is completely stuck in his mind and blames me for all his unhappiness.  I don't know what to do anymore. 

I don't know where to go from here.   I don't know if I should continue to work on staying.  I don't know if I should figure out how to untangle our lives.  I can't imagine untangling our lives.   I don't even know where or how to start.   I am just so tired.  I am the one who should be angry at him.  I should be thankful that he wants to end it.   But I know he doesn't want to end it.  Or maybe he does.  Maybe he is so tired of it all too.   Maybe we both need to face facts. 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ArleighBurke]

I've been following your posts for a while now and I know this relationship has been very draining for you.

I'm glad you tried to have a nice time with him... .

We weren't in the restaurant for 10 minutes before he got really angry about <something seemingly trivial>.  He literally stormed out before we even had a chance to get menus.  As we were leaving, he <did the typical BPD thing and blamed me>.  We got in the car and he started to yell at me - I was overtired and feeling stressed  - <so I forgot to validate> and I fought back and it got really ugly quick. 

You had a great day - and YOU (the Non-BPD) felt stressed/apprehensive about dinner. Imagine what HE (the BPD) must have been feeling? He would have been a steam cooker waiting to explode. And he exploded! I really think the presure got to him too.

But your response to him - you said you were tired - so all those good conversational skills of Validation, Empathy, not JADEing - all out the window. And "it got ugly". Yep.

Again, don't beat yourself up. Staying calm and practicing Validation is hard. It is a learned skill that you just need to keep at. He will always blame you for his life - that is BPD. To stay with him - you need to work out how to hear him saying those things, but not take them to heart. That is difficult! Certainly untangling your lifes a little will help - you need a certain amount of "distance" to keep your sanity.

How are your interactions with him at work lately?

[coworkerfriend]

 I just realized that the last time I posted (mid March)  I was also feeling bad because I lost my temper.   I am not dealing well with the constant stress of his illness.  As strong as I try to be, I am obviously cracking under the pressure since I keep losing my temper.  I have always said to him that the good times outweigh the bad but for a very long time, i am not so sure that is the case. 

Our work interactions had been very positive for the past two weeks - he was focused and actually worked 8 to 10 hour days.  That is the first time he has done that in months.  Our offices are close together and there were times we were talking and joking throughout the day.  It was nice.  I was trying to enjoy those moments since they have been fleeting over that past 3 or 4 months.  I end up working 10 to 12 hours days to keep up with the workload - I have stopped picking up his slack and I have let projects linger longer than they should have.   I can't do it all.   I know it is taking a toll on me. 

I think since the blaming of how horrible his life is has been so constant, it has started to seep in.   We have talked about how important it is for me to not let the bad stuff in and I have been working on that for years.  I have always been committed to staying.  I have tried to learn as much as I can.  Sometimes it is hard since he can be rational and he is so smart.  But there are triggers everywhere and I know there is no way to avoid him dysregulating at any time. 

[Grey Kitty]

One hindsight observation that might have 'saved' your date with him:

If you had gone in separate cars and met to see the band, instead of driving together.

One of the worst feelings I know is being trapped in a car with somebody dysregulating.

If you had separate cars, he would have stormed out of the restaurant. At that point, you could have stayed and ate alone in the restaurant, or got in your car and driven home on your own. While neither would have been "fun" both would have been 1000% better than your experience.

Yeah, it sucks to be in a r/s with somebody you cannot trust yourself to get into a car with... .but that's the reality of your r/s. Pretending it isn't that way only makes it worse.

[flourdust]

Every now and then, they let some real truth out. This quote really popped:

"He said that I have been taking his abuse for years and I should shut up and continue taking it.

Is that the core of this relationship?

[Grey Kitty]

I knew that I need to detach and I am so sad that the good time is over.

Yes, the two weeks of good times are over, at least for now. Understand WHY they are over.

Not because you joined in the fight with him. Once he launched into you, the good times were over no matter what you did.

Nope. The good times were over because he couldn't sustain good behavior, and had to find something to pick a fight about, and it was the restaurant seating and blaming you for it.

"Normal" people can go to a crappy restaurant, walk out because they don't like it, and not have a full dysregulation over it. This guy can't, or at least couldn't that day.

Yes, you knew better tools for handling his dysregulation than you used, but blaming yourself for that is like being a firefighter, blaming yourself for the destroyed building that you didn't get there in time to put out... .when somebody else set the fire!

[coworkerfriend]

As always, I find great comfort in the responses I get when I post. I have spent too much time blaming myself - trying to fix situations that I can not control and twisting myself around to try and keep the peace. 

It truly boils down to him not being able to sustain good behavior - he can't keep his head in a good place. 

On Monday, he came to work and apologized for our fight over the weekend.  He said he genuinely appreciates that I understand and put up with him.  He said he is going to be truthful with his therapist and work on himself.   We had really nice, normal productive work days all week long.  Since we are so behind and busy, I had to work yesterday.  He came in and said he was going to help me get caught up but ended up fooling around on websites and other distractions.  Around 5pm, he came in my office and asked how much longer I planned to work.  I said that i wanted to finish what i was doing and then I planned to go.  He made a "joke" about how it was almost time for him to get mad at me - since he has been getting mad every week about something.  I said maybe we could skip this week and move along.   I finished what I was doing and he asked if I wanted to eat dinner with him.  I said sure - and we decided to meet at his house.   I walked in and within minutes, I could tell his mood had completely changed.  He said he was tired and depressed.  He said he wasn't mad at me - he was just completely unhappy with his life.  He ate in silence and as soon as dinner was over he said he was going to bed.  He said I was welcome to stay - he wasn't going to kick me out.   Before I even had a chance to answer, he started to get angry about how he has given me so much time to "fix" things and he is sick of me always disappointing him.  I said that I am sorry he feels that way and I was going home.  That made him angrier that I always leave him when things don't go my way.   I felt triggered and I wanted to respond but I left.  I felt terribly guilty about leaving but I couldn't stay and have him continue to get worked up.  I knew I couldn't ignore his words and move on. 

He called me this morning to end it yet again - to tell me he wants to find someone who understands him, that I have too much baggage and I never do anything to help him.   I said that it sucks that he feels that way and I am sorry.   I ended the call as quickly as I could.

I am really struggling with my feelings.  I know that my resentment and anger keeps building.  Flourdust really pointed out a truth to our relationship - I have taken however he treats me for years.   I excused it away - blamed it on the illness.  That he really doesn't mean it.  But now I feel like I have to face the truth.   But I get confused on what that is.   I am having a hard time sorting myself out. 

[DaddyBear77]

In 2006, my wife said to me that she couldn't stay. I had too many problems, and I was making no effort to fix them.

She moved out, we lived apart for 2.5 years. I kept pulling her back and pulling her back and finally she agreed to come back on the condition that I really worked on myself and focused on ways to stop being such a mean, horrible jerk.

We've been together again in this phase for 8 years, and nothing has changed. I'm still just as much of a horrible jerk as I was all those years ago.

I'm not a mean horrible jerk, by the way.

I think what I'm saying is that this is a common thing for pwBPD to do and say, and also, be sure you consider what's reasonable to expect if you stay or go. The only person that will ever truly change your pwBPD is your pwBPD.

[Grey Kitty]

As always, I find great comfort in the responses I get when I post. I have spent too much time blaming myself - trying to fix situations that I can not control and twisting myself around to try and keep the peace. 
[... .]
I am really struggling with my feelings.  I know that my resentment and anger keeps building.  Flourdust really pointed out a truth to our relationship - I have taken however he treats me for years.   I excused it away - blamed it on the illness.  That he really doesn't mean it.  But now I feel like I have to face the truth.   But I get confused on what that is.   I am having a hard time sorting myself out. 

I just wanted to start out by saying     

In this last post, your ACTIONS taken in response to his BEHAVIOR is pretty much perfect. You didn't take your anger out on him. You didn't stick around to let him take his moods out on you. I don't know that I could suggest a better way to handle it for you.

And you are still truly struggling with how you feel about it.

We all wish (just like you do, I'm sure!) that doing the right thing was easier. It might get easier with practice, but dealing with his behavior like this will never be easy.

What feelings are you struggling with the most?

[coworkerfriend]

Thanks GK - I appreciate your support.  I don't know why I feel like I am not doing the right thing by leaving. Well, part of me does know because I know how much he hates when I leave.  He says that is being selfish.

 I can't let him take his bad moods out on me.  I can't do it anymore.  I can't take the blame for his own issues.   I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me.  His constant threats to end it are too much for me.  If he isn't threatening to end it, then he threatens to stay even though he says he doesn't have feelings for me.   It has been endless.  He came to the office to dump on me.  He knew I was here and needed to blame me for how horrible his life is.   I did my best to ignore him and that just made him madder.   He kept pushing and saying things he knows triggers me.  He kept getting madder and madder and I just kept typing at my desk.   He told me to finish the work on his desk.  I flat out said no and he flipped out.  He finally left - it felt like he was here for a long time but it probably was only 30 minutes or so. 

I feel like I have given him a pass for the illness.   I accepted being treated poorly. I accepted being the best thing that ever happened to him - the love of his life - the only one who understands him.  I didn't focus on how I felt about any of this - just how he feels.  All week he kept saying that he is so lucky I understand him.  I hear his words and know that its just a matter of time before I am the one who ruined his life.  I can't imagine my life without him.  But I don't know if I can continue with him in it.   I don't know how we would ever untangle things - the business side - our personal side.  I want to think I am strong enough to handle the bad with the good.   But I don't know anymore.  Am I making things worse for myself by accepting his "apology" and being nice to him when he is in a good way.   Am I making things worse by fighting back - Am I invalidating him and creating more of a problem?

I want to keep working on myself but I sometimes don't even know where to start.  DB77 - I am sure you aren't a horrible jerk.  Just as sure as I am that I am a good person who did not ruin his life.  I know he needs to change.  Half the time, he knows he needs to change too.  But the dysregulated times have been every single weekend for the past 6 months.  It's hard to ignore.  From the time I realized he had BPD, I was committed to staying and learning and living with it.  It's been over 4 years that I have known about it and I have no perspective anymore.  I lost sight of what's normal or not.  GK made a good point that going to a crappy restaurant doesn't throw normal people into a tailspin - can drive home and not have it turn into a horrible raging situation. 

[Grey Kitty]

I can't let him take his bad moods out on me.  I can't do it anymore.  I can't take the blame for his own issues.   I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me.  His constant threats to end it are too much for me.

The best thing you can do here is remove yourself from all these things you cannot take.

You don't sound ready to split with him, so do it consistently in the small way, removing yourself from the situation when he does it, letting him spend time away from you when he's in that mood.

The "big" way to remove yourself is to split up with him, but you don't have to--See if you can get to a point where you are mildly disappointed, but not overly distraught and guilty each time you have to do it.

I feel like I have given him a pass for the illness.   I accepted being treated poorly.

You can accept that he has the illness, and have compassion for him, at the same time you refuse to accept poor treatment from him. It is a fine line, and takes practice, but it can be done. That's a work in progress as well.

[coworkerfriend]

I don't think I am ready to split from him.  But I don't want to delude myself into thinking things can or will get better. 

I have to remove myself from situations but when I do, I tend to spend too much time overthinking it.  Not really letting myself be "away" from him - he constantly pops into my thoughts. 

I think what I am most disappointed in is myself.   I truly lost myself and I miss who I was.    I was confident and always looked at the bright side.  I was optimistic and hopeful.  Now I feel down and blah too much of the time.   Being surrounded by the tension and negativity has taken a toll.   I don't blame him for this.  I blame myself.  I have known for years that he is who he is.  He suffers from BPD and even though he has moments of clarity and self awareness, he has not done anything to treat this.  I know he isn't honest with his therapist.  A month ago when he mentioned he thought he has BPD, I had a glimmer of hope that maybe he realizes that he can get treatment - he can be helped. But I don't think that is the case.    I think I hold myself back from the radical acceptance of the illness.  I know the lessons - i understand how to validate but it sometimes feels hopeless and then we go through days of "normal" where he is clear and I get disappointed when it ends.  I don't know if I am making any sense at all.   I feel just as stuck as he feels.  I feel stuck in the cycle of his moods.  He feels stuck in his horrible life. 

[Inneedofhelp]

I'm sorry this is so painful for you. Your story sounds so familiar to me as well. 17years married to pwBPD (undiagnosed with no hope for him to seek treatment), with 6 years separated but in daily interactions because of our 2 children and because like you I have been taking the abuse. Also like you, it is getting worse and I have been allowing him to emotionally blackmail me (therapist told me this recently). He threatens more rageful responses if I don't agree to his unreasonable demands and he says he wouldn't have anger if it wasn't for me. I know that's not true, but it's also scary to think what if it gets worse. As I try to spectate further his illness takes hold and his fears of abandonment cause him to lash out at me even more. I have isolated myself so don't have support, but I'm at the point where I need to tell more what is happening so when I say no to him or ask him to let me alone he doesn't think he can have any reaction he feels like.
We need to keep gathering the courage to know that we are not the bad, unkind people they tell us and find ways to start living again.

[Grey Kitty]

I have to remove myself from situations but when I do, I tend to spend too much time overthinking it.  Not really letting myself be "away" from him - he constantly pops into my thoughts.

I know that doesn't seem like it is helping... .but really, it is.

Yes, you have feelings and thoughts about him and reacting to him. But they are still yours, and you may get through them faster than you expect some times.

Trust me--staying there and experiencing that stuff is really bad for you, him, and your relationship. I know, I've been there. And I've realized eventually that it was dragging me down even though I thought I was "strong enough" for it.

Meanwhile, keep looking for the self you remember--she's still in there somewhere, and if you protect her, she'll come out more often!

[coworkerfriend]

I hope its helping.  Today was a terrible day.  I tried so hard to ignore him and not be distracted by his rants.  He came in and wanted to make me feel guilty for "letting" him stay in bed yesterday - telling me he had a meltdown.  I told him I needed to get something done for work and he got so mad that I always put work in front of him.  How he can't stand to even look at me - he doesn't have any respect for me.  I left his office and shut my door.  He spent the day saying horrible things to me whenever he had the chance - if I went to the bathroom or got coffee - he would follow me.

I was working quietly as much as I could.  As he was getting ready to leave, he came in to tell me how I ruined his life and how it is really over between us.  I said that I understand and I am not going to push to change his mind.  He said a few more nasty things to me and left.

At one point today, I said that I understand he is unhappy at work and he is unhappy with me.  I said that my feelings for him haven't changed but I respect how he feels.   He said i was patronizing him. 

I don't know if our relationship can recover from this.  He blames his deteriorated mental state on me.  He cancelled the next two therapy appointments.  I have to find some strength.  When he isn't around, I start to feel stronger.  When he is around me, I feel like I slip back into being afraid of losing him.  I have been conditioned to think that he is the only person who will ever love me.  I have completely isolated myself from friends and family - no one knows how messed up the relationship is.   I am so disappointed in myself. I am not afraid of being alone - I am more afraid that I don't know how to untangle this mess.

[Grey Kitty]

When it comes to possibly untangling this mess, do you still spend time with him outside work (during "good" times)?

If you decided to end everything but the work relationship, you would have more space away from him.

It is obviously a big step, and will get a reaction [understatement!], but it does give you a chance to work on living your own life (in non-work hours) while you try to keep the work thing together.