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I sense a trap...
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peacemountain
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I sense a trap...
«
on:
April 04, 2017, 02:37:16 PM »
I have a 3 day work trip coming up next week. It's been 2.5 years since I last traveled for work because the experience was so horrible I promised myself I would never do it again. At that time I didn't know about BPD. Basically what happened was my uBPDh was calling and texting, having panic attacks, and accusing me of cheating on him for the entire trip. (Obviously before I knew about boundaries) It was so stressful and non-conducive to work that I was a mess and I'm sure my boss noticed. I've made excuses ever since to my boss to avoid having to travel.
So about a month ago, it was decided that I needed to take a quick 3 day trip. It so happens my H has extended family in the area and so I gave him the option to come along with me and spend time with his family during the days. We planned to extend the trip by a few days and have a mini vacation. Between the time we made the decision and now, things have become very difficult in our relationship. Or let me say, as part of the typical cycle, we're now in the dreaded phase of the cycle where he is completely unhappy, taking it out on me, and generally making life not so fun. As a result, I've started seeing a counselor to help me cope with the chaos and manage my responses (he refuses to go independently or together and hates that I'm going).
In the past couple of days, he keeps bringing up to me the topic of the trip. "I think it's best I don't go since we're not getting along" "You need to decide if you want me to come" "What do you want to do about this trip" I keep telling him it's his decision. That I'll make it work either way.
This was his last text to me just today:
H:Do you know what you like to do with the trip. I'm stressed about it either way. On one hand all the things you said make complete sense. On the other being away from you during this emotional last few weeks has me on edge too. I've got a lot on my shoulders w our marriage lately and it's making me more anxious than normal.
Me: Yes, I'd like you to make the decision. You're the one most impacted by staying home or going. I will be happy with either decision you make.
H: That doesn't help me. I want you to be over the moon w me going if I go. And you can't do that. Hard to feel like I'm the reason you're all messed up inside and going to counseling. Makes me feel like a complete failure. And it burns me every time you go
Me: I love you very much. I can understand how you might feel that way. I would like you to be free to choose what you'd like to do and what would make you most happy. I'm fully responsible for my own happiness and that's why I'm choosing counseling.
H: Exactly. Two separate individuals trying to find their own happiness. Outside of a relationship/marriage. It isn't healthy Bc I take it as you'd rather go have someone else teach you how to find yourself and to be happy (which is impossible anyway) rather than attempt to work things through together w me. If you can't understand that or see that I don't know how we'll ever again be on the same page. But you keep doing what makes you happy. Bc it's all about you.
H: I'll just stay her. And you can go. And I'll also keep my opinions/concerns to myself. Bc clearly you have no intention on being a couple who shares everything w one another and tires to make it work w effort and communication and give and take. You fail to see how this makes me vunerable and undoubtedly pushes us further apart. And it will. Until one of us chooses to leave.
H: Maybe I'm the wrong one for thinking a marriage is supposed to be one of openness and transparency. Lacking nothing from one another. You're talking w a complete stranger to me about your life and mine I'm guessing. That is you basically fiving me the finger and saying I'm not good enough. Whether you argue it's not about that. Is is what it's like to me. But hear this. I'm done. I'm done with openness/communication. All that. If you're gonna retreat and not work w me as a team. I'm shutting down too. That's it. And you won't hear another word from me on it.
H: We have nothing left. Why can't you just admit you do NOT love me and you want out of this? Bc you can't pretend to love me and want affection and choose to hurt me with your actions. And not share your life w me or be transparent. We're growing into strangers. It's not fair or right.
H: And this is coming from a broken heart. Not anger. But again. I have nothing left to say. I feel empty inside and you and I are strangers.
So I have lots of questions... .
1. Am I right in guessing that it's not about the trip. It's about wanting me to validate that "everything is ok" and I'm not abandoning him. If I told him he absolutely had to come with me and I'd die without him, then that means that he's not loosing me?
2. Am I doing something wrong here? I want him to take ownership for his own desires and happiness. By making the decision for him am I enabling him? I will take ownership for my own happiness. I honestly could enjoy a solitary trip or a mini vacation with him. They both have their perks.
3. Was there something invalidating with what I said? I didn't expect it to trigger such a negative reaction.
4. The final several texts are abusive in my mind, which is why I stopped responding. Although they came so fast that I couldn't have kept up if I wanted to. Typically I would politely disengage "I love you very much. I think this is something we should discuss in person rather than text." (rather than JADE... .which is what my mind is screaming for)
Please, I'll take any suggestions, guidance, correction on this interaction. It happens ALL the time, so I would find it very useful! I'm so tired!
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formflier
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Re: I sense a trap...
«
Reply #1 on:
April 04, 2017, 02:54:41 PM »
I'm assuming that you are not responding to the texts... if you did NOT post a response here.
That would be my recommendation.
If it is normal for you to not respond... .keep it up. If it is new for you not to respond... .perhaps "Thanks for reaching out... .it would mean a lot to me if we can have this conversation in person. See you tonight at dinner... .I'm going to make that new fish dish we have been talking about... "
Something like that. The important thing is to not engage something that has been handled... .let him soothe himself.
When are you leaving... .how "tight" is the schedule. I'm trying to think through the best way for you to announce the time you are leaving.
FF
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peacemountain
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Re: I sense a trap...
«
Reply #2 on:
April 04, 2017, 03:01:16 PM »
Correct, I didn't respond after the text I had posted there. The rest was just text bombing from him.
It's a relatively tight schedule, seeing that these types of dysregulations take 48ish hours to resolve. I have to cancel our vacation hotel by Saturday, and I leave next Wednesday.
Excerpt
The important thing is to not engage something that has been handled... .let him soothe himself.
What do you mean by "handled"? The question of the trip? Or the questioning of the counseling? My main goal was to SET with my second text, but I don't know that I accomplished it all that well... .
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formflier
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Re: I sense a trap...
«
Reply #3 on:
April 04, 2017, 04:08:20 PM »
Quote from: peacemountain on April 04, 2017, 03:01:16 PM
Correct, I didn't respond after the text I had posted there. The rest was just text bombing from him.
It's a relatively tight schedule, seeing that these types of dysregulations take 48ish hours to resolve. I have to cancel our vacation hotel by Saturday, and I leave next Wednesday.
What do you mean by "handled"? The question of the trip? Or the questioning of the counseling? My main goal was to SET with my second text, but I don't know that I accomplished it all that well... .
Handled... .equals you have invited him and let him know your desires. It's sort of an odd "circular" or "repetitive" thing to say that you need to keep assuring him that you want him to go.
I'll take a look at your set and see if I can pick at it a bit... . My impression (without rereading) was that you were completely appropriate... .supportive... encouraging... . Perhaps a bit much on the "i love yous" (I'm not sure how much push pull you guys do)... .so perhaps it was ok.
I'm more interested in your mindset... than exactly what you say to him.
Mindset: "I've planned to have a wonderful business trip and vacation with you. I'll be sad if you choose not to go with me but I will respect your choices." Then I would hope you go and do the business trip AND the vacation... .as planned.
DO NOT alter your life (much) to accommodate a disordered person.
I'm assuming you are interested in the vacation... .since you were part of planning it. So... .go enjoy it. You make your choices and he can make his choices.
His reaction would be... .?
FF
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formflier
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Re: I sense a trap...
«
Reply #4 on:
April 04, 2017, 04:22:00 PM »
Quote from: peacemountain on April 04, 2017, 02:37:16 PM
Me: Yes, I'd like you to make the decision. You're the one most impacted by staying home or going. I will be happy with either decision you make.
This is a good respone... .on "good, better best... ." it might even be better. I'm just getting to know you... .so don't know your story. Generally speaking... ."less is more" especially if there is less explaining... .about stuff adults should already know.
I would have preferred that you say "Yes, this is your decision to make." A big part of me wants to add "I made my preference known by inviting you... ."... .but I think most people would take that as "snark". If anyone else can think of a gentle way to say that... .go for it.
Perhaps "I've made my preference known for your choice... "
Quote from: peacemountain on April 04, 2017, 02:37:16 PM
Me: I love you very much. I can understand how you might feel that way. I would like you to be free to choose what you'd like to do and what would make you most happy. I'm fully responsible for my own happiness and that's why I'm choosing counseling.
Support
I love you very much (you've got it here... .I'm ok with this) I would "tone it down"... ."Hey babe... I'm here for you... "
Empathy
I can understand how you might feel that way. (again... you pretty much have it) I would get rid of "i" and try to indicate that anyone would feel that way. Some would argue the other way by saying you should create some "personal empathy" with him and stick with I. You'll just have to play with it.
Personally... .I would say. "Completely understand your dilemma"
Truth
This is where you got off a bit. I think it devolved into explaining rather than stating.
Excerpt
I would like you to be free to choose what you'd like to do and what would make you most happy. I'm fully responsible for my own happiness and that's why I'm choosing counseling.
Plus... you "kitchen sink" it... .by bringing up counseling. That likely poured gas on an ember and "poof"... .now you have a text bomb dysregulation. Nice work!
Listen... .it's obvious your intentions were good.
You are NOT responsible for regulating his emotions
Learn from this... .move along... .do better next time. Stick to one narrowly defined issue, put the other issues "in the parking lot" or "in a separate bucket".
Here would be my truth: "You have two wonderful choices. I'm sure you will enjoy either. "
Seriously... .you are stuck with a business trip... .and he can go hang with you and vacation alone... .then together. Or... he can stay home and have me time.
You don't have a choice... .yet he wants you to make his choice... .maddening... .
FF
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peacemountain
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Re: I sense a trap...
«
Reply #5 on:
April 04, 2017, 04:33:19 PM »
@formflier... .My mindset is this (note I would not say this directly): The last few weeks have been exhausting for me because of the multiple dysregulations, and verbal abuse and arguments I've had to handle appropriately. I would enjoy a few days to myself to focus on work and recuperate. I also understand how it's difficult emotionally for me to be away, and so I would support you coming with me and making a nice vacation out of it. If you decide not to come, I will enjoy my "me time". If you decide to come, I will enjoy the get away with you.
Excerpt
Mindset: "I've planned to have a wonderful business trip and vacation with you. I'll be sad if you choose not to go with me but I will respect your choices." Then I would hope you go and do the business trip AND the vacation... .as planned.
His reaction would be... .?
If I went on a vacation without him he would implode. I would be painted black, never to return.
If I go on the business trip without him, with no vacation on the end, I am fully aware that I will need to be enforcing my boundaries 24/7. He will be trying to contact me throughout the workday and evening to know where I'm at and what I'm doing. He will accuse me of having an affair and I'm sure will threaten divorce and will inform me that he's moving out and won't be home when I get back. He will not carry out any of these threats and when he realizes it doesn't get a response he will go silent for several days. The reason I say this is because this is what happened last time, and his first comment when hearing about the trip was "I don't feel comfortable with you going out every night for work dinners and drinking". (typically 1 glass of wine with multiple colleagues present) And then he said I was not protecting our marriage and he knows how these things work.
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peacemountain
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Re: I sense a trap...
«
Reply #6 on:
April 04, 2017, 04:42:41 PM »
Quote from: formflier on April 04, 2017, 04:22:00 PM
Personally... .I would say. "Completely understand your dilemma"
YES! I love this one
I'm stealing it for sure!
Quote from: formflier on April 04, 2017, 04:22:00 PM
This is where you got off a bit. I think it devolved into explaining rather than stating.
Plus... you "kitchen sink" it... .by bringing up counseling. That likely poured gas on an ember and "poof"... .now you have a text bomb dysregulation. Nice work!
Lol, quite right! Ooops! I was so focused on not justifying and defending that I forgot about not explaining. Obviously still learning I love the idea of a parking lot. I use it all the time in work meetings and I see how it will mentally help me compartmentalize these discussions.
Quote from: formflier on April 04, 2017, 04:22:00 PM
Here would be my truth: "You have two wonderful choices. I'm sure you will enjoy either. "
Yes, I love your truth! They're both wonderful choices!
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formflier
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Re: I sense a trap...
«
Reply #7 on:
April 04, 2017, 05:08:34 PM »
Quote from: peacemountain on April 04, 2017, 04:33:19 PM
I would be painted black, never to return.
This is fear talking.
They want you to make decisions out of FOG... .Fear Obligation and Guilt.
Mindset "Live your life and invite him along. If he decides not to go... .don't let his decisions hamper you from living your life."
Seriously... .":)on't let a disordered person have control of your decisions... ."
FF
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formflier
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Re: I sense a trap...
«
Reply #8 on:
April 04, 2017, 05:11:40 PM »
When do you leave... .how many days from now?
I get the vibe this is a short term thing... .so my interest is that you invite him... .in a healthy way... and then you go on business trip AND vacation.
Let him decide what he wants to do.
You don't decide for him... .he doesn't decide for you.
Clear boundaries... .
You each also get to decide... .not to decide... .which is a decision.
FF
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DearHusband
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Re: I sense a trap...
«
Reply #9 on:
April 04, 2017, 08:39:15 PM »
Wow, this sounds so familiar. You're doing great.
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AllNightLong
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Re: I sense a trap...
«
Reply #10 on:
April 05, 2017, 08:39:05 AM »
Wow it's incredible, like i've read for so many times on these boards, it really feels like everyone is talking about the same person cause i recognize so much from what you wrote and could see my wife in there to 100%.
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peacemountain
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Re: I sense a trap...
«
Reply #11 on:
April 05, 2017, 04:28:07 PM »
So I've politely extended the invitation, but I remained "healthfully separate" and indicated it was still his choice which I would respect either way.
I was quite shocked that he went from the text dysregulation I shared previously to a completely rational discussion about the matter today. It has been literally months since we've had a conversation that was rational about a topic that was emotionally charged.
He chose to come along with me. I am thankful since it means I will not have to be in 100% boundary enforcement mode on the work trip.
Thanks for all the help and suggestions along the way!
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formflier
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Re: I sense a trap...
«
Reply #12 on:
April 05, 2017, 05:51:36 PM »
When do you guys leave?
Glad it appears to be working out. What is your plan for fun stuff in the evening after work?
FF
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peacemountain
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Re: I sense a trap...
«
Reply #13 on:
April 06, 2017, 11:23:23 AM »
We're leaving Tuesday and will be back Sunday so it will be pretty quick.
One night, we'll have dinner with his family. 90% of whom I've never met. These are mostly cousins and their spouses and children. It will be nice to get to know and hear more about their childhoods together.
Friday night, we're planning on going to a nice restaurant on the river.
We both used to live in the area before we knew each other so I think we'll also visit some of our old haunts. I think we're both looking forward to sharing some of our "before I knew you" memories with each other.
Then we'll head out to the beach for a night. Have a nice meal and stay someplace nice. Explore and shop.
I'm interested to see how this goes, and staying cautiously optimistic. Historically, traveling/vacationing has been an anxiety trigger for him and lead to dysregulations.
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formflier
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Re: I sense a trap...
«
Reply #14 on:
April 06, 2017, 11:38:16 AM »
It's all about mindset... .
If he gets a little anxious... .join him... .but not as much, try to cut it in half. That will be validating but will help him return to center.
Same things goes for happiness. Let's say you find his old haunt... and he loves it... best ever. On the 1-10 scale he is giving you a 6... .you can be happy to but give him a three... .
Stay wise about what you reveal... .avoid "those were the best years... ." instead... "those years were special or formative for me"... .
FF
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peacemountain
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Re: I sense a trap...
«
Reply #15 on:
April 06, 2017, 12:31:38 PM »
Great advice... .cut it in half! I typically get 1's or 10's from him
I think that's part of the black/white nature of BPD? It's also what drew me to him when we were dating. I'm very even keel, and he was what I would have called passionate. I saw the positive side of the passionate when we were dating.
And yes, there will need to be some caution on revealing on my side. I lived in the area when I was with my previous H. Those were very good years. So the "good times" will be a bit loaded when it comes to how my current H is interpreting things. Because of the black/white thinking he's of the opinion that my ex was all bad and all 15 years of my marriage to him were bad.
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formflier
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Re: I sense a trap...
«
Reply #16 on:
April 06, 2017, 12:37:47 PM »
You seem to have a good handle on it.
Do you understand why you "want to go with him"... .when he swings out negative... or positive?
There is a dual goal of helping him back to neutral... .and also validating. This assumes that he is having valid emotions.
Good that you are fairly neutral... .because that will help you evaluated whether or not you run the risk of "validating the invalid"... . Basically an idea that you don't want reinforced.
FF
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peacemountain
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Re: I sense a trap...
«
Reply #17 on:
April 06, 2017, 02:49:37 PM »
I only "want to go with him" when it's in the positive direction. I think it's a result of being a more positive but "steady" person, I'm drawn to others that can feel more extreme "highs" than I typically do. I experience joy, but the joy or excitement of my H is more extreme than my own and so I think I'm drawn to it to experience it vicariously. Now, if one were to really examine this, I think what you'd find is that while the "high" is more extreme for my pwBPD, there is probably not as much substance to it as a high that I would experience, since it is crafted from something more illusionary and mythical. Does this make sense?
On the other hand - the negative passion is something that is scary for me. If I ever am invalidating, it is usually a result of me being frightened by the negative energy and anger expressed. Something in me signals danger and I desperately try to pull him back to neutral. I think my reaction here is rooted in some abuse trauma.
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