avoiding gatherings to keep the peace

[helpforsis]

Hi, I have a younger sister (40) who is showing traits of BPD with narcissism and she has attacked my husband of 16 years several times. We now avoid going to gatherings because of fear of her unpredictable rage. Everything annoys her and she talks badly about everyone. My mom still spends time with her and my parents don't know how to help her because "she us an adult" and this is the way she has been for a long time. Being her sister, I am often hurt emotionally, but she likes to call me a baby and make fun of my reactions. My husband and I are very social and I'm worried that someone will eventually notice that we are not attending gatherings where she may be at. Its a loss for my folks and none of us know how to talk to her about it for fear of being attacked. She also has 2 little kids who have questionable and innapropriate behavior, which we are not allowed to say anything about either because she accuses us of judging her parenting. My childhood family has fallen apart and I don't know how to fix it.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Welcome helpforsis:    
I'm sorry about the problems with your sister.  I hear how frustrating that is for you.  Is your sister married or a single parent?  Has she ever been treated for any form of mental illness?  Anyone on your side of the family have a history of any form of mental illness?

she has attacked my husband of 16 years several times  

In what manner does she attack him, verbally or physically?  :)oes it happen during an argument over something they both disagree on.  

Everything annoys her and she talks badly about everyone. . .I am often hurt emotionally, but she likes to call me a baby and make fun of my reactions.

That sounds like a very frustrating situation.  She is likely looking for a reaction from you, so the less you react the better.  Sometimes, being critical of others is a way that people with BPD (pwBpD) uses PROJECTION to transfer what they feel about their self to others.  

When she talks badly about someone or gossips (when you are in her presence), you might start by trying to change the subject.  If that doesn't work, then remove yourself from the conversation  in some neutral way.  Go to the restroom, oops, forgot something in the kitchen, go outside, etc.  It it happens on the phone, then set a boundary to terminate the conversation.

If she is making fun of you, you might try to have an "I" Statement prepared in advance.

The 19-minute video at the link below, is a helpful tutorial for using "I" Statements:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDExNRJCUp0

The template and sample below could be helpful as well.

How To Use I-Statements:

Start by identifying how you feel: mad, sad, frustrated, etc.
I feel __________

State the reason you feel this way or what happened that led you to those feelings.
when __________

Try to identify the reason the person’s actions led to those feelings for you.
because __________

Let the person know what you want instead.
I would like __________ .

Example:
Your spouse snaps at you during dinner and it really hurt your feelings. Here’s an I-statement to use with this scenario:

I feel hurt when you snap at me like that because I worked hard to cook this nice dinner for us. I would like you to use nicer words and tone with me, and to know if something happened today that has led you to be in a bad mood.

Check out the video and the template above. Additionally, a couple of samples appear below.  They might give you an idea about a type of statement that might apply to your situation.  What might your version be?  Take a crack at it and see what you come up with.

Sample 1
I love you and I want our conversations to be respectful and supportive.  I can see that you are having a bad day.  Therefore, I'm going to end this conversation.  I look forward to speaking to you when we can both enjoy a respectful conversation.

Sample 2
I want to have a mutually respectful conversation with you, but that isn't possible right now.  I'm going to end this conversation.  I look forward to (talking, texting, exchanging emails), with you when you are having a better day.

You don't want to validate anything that is factually invalid.  Validating feelings is a different matter.  Sometimes, it can be best to just   DON'T INVALIDATE  Invalidation can occur by expressions and body language, as well as by word.  Sounds like your sister is doing a thorough job of invalidating you, but you don't want to reciprocate.

In addition to NOT invalidating, you might want to occasionally validate your sister's feelings.  You don't need to agree with feelings to validate them.  Sometime, by acknowledging what someone feels, it can deescalate a situation.  When your sister talks badly about others, have you ever been aware of some feelings that might be related to her talking badly about some people?

Its a loss for my folks and none of us know how to talk to her about it for fear of being attacked.  

Unfortunately, you can't force someone to get help.  The only thing that you all can do is to unite forces and use BOUNDARIES and various communication strategy to make things better for yourselves.  Boundaries are for your own welfare and protection.  Others won't generally like them, so it is up to you to consistently enforce your boundaries.

My husband and I are very social and I'm worried that someone will eventually notice that we are not attending gatherings where she may be at.

I wouldn't worry about that.  That type of inquiry would be rather impolite, but you might want to have a vague response ready.  Perhaps saying something like, "oh, I hadn't thought about that". Then, change the subject.

My childhood family has fallen apart and I don't know how to fix it.  

Sadly, you don't have the power to change anything, other than yourself.  When did things begin to fall apart with your sister?

[helpforsis]

Things began to fall apart shortly after we had kids. Its like it became a competition for her. My husband and I run a business together and her husband does not attend family functions. He stays home and drinks a lot, to the point of having serious health issues and ending up in the hospital. When we do get together, she finds everything that bothers her or annoys her about my husband and gets in his face and yells, poking him in the neck. What's the point? In the past, my husband has stepped away and gone outside. My dad was just beside himself and didn't know what to do. Stay by the side of his daughter or son in law? She needs help. This has been going on for at least six years. She just can't find it in herself to be nice and doesn't thing she has to. I asked her to be respectful but apparently, it doesn't matter.
Her kids also have strange behaviors. My daughter told me that they touched her innapropriately, telling me things she should not know at 5 years old. When I called to talk to her about it, she told me that she would believe her kids and I believe mine, so we have not spoken in months and getting nowhere with any solution.

[Harri]

Hi and welcome to the boards helpforsis!  I'm glad you found us but am sorry for the situation with your sister.  What you describe is a difficult situation. 

I think NaughtyNibbler made some great suggestions and I definitely agree that you should try not to worry too much about what other people are thinking.  If they do make the connection between your absence and your sisters attendance, so what?  Your sister behaves in ways that are not emotionally safe for you, your husband and your kids.  In addition she gets physical with your husband.  Her kids touch your kids inappropriately!  You may see yourself as avoiding her, but I see it more as protecting you and yours.

I tend to be more direct (some might call it confrontational   ) than many people so take what I say next with that in mind and disregard anything that may not fit for you and your situation. 

You said that your sister has been behaving this way for a long time.  I don't really see this changing unless you change the way you interact with her.  Boundaries will help.  I statements are great and certainly minimizing contact is good.  In addition though, I would recommend saying "No."  "Stop talking to me like that" and walk away, hang up etc.  ":)on't lay a hand on my husband" and stand firm.

I understand being afraid of her rages and how difficult it can be to change behaviors that have been going on for a long time.  It is hard to change patterns but nothing will change for you if you continue to do the same things.  None of what I suggest is about getting her to stop or change but has everything to do with helping you (and hopefully your parents) to stand firm and respond rather than reacting in fear.

She belittles you, assaults your husband, scares your parents, and her kids are touching your kids inappropriately.  Enough is enough.  Boundaries.  Say no.  Say stop.  Learn about BPD, not so much to help your sister but to protect you and yours. 

Her best hope of getting help is if she sees the people around her respond with firm boundaries and if they let her know she is behaving in ways that are unacceptable. 

Definitely keep your kids away from hers.  My heart hurts to think about her kids growing up in that environment and I can only wonder at what has been going on for them to be touching your 5 year old.  I would consider reporting any incident that may occur in the hope of getting her kids some help.

Helpforsis,  please take what fits and leave the rest.  I hope you continue to post as needed.  There are a lot of people here who can share their experiences and make suggestions. 

[helpforsis]

The interaction I have had with her is minimal in the last few months. We met at a counselor's office as she offered to talk, however, when we got there, she complained about having to drive to my town and then began to complain about my husband again. She had not seen him in months. It just doesn't make sense. I still have the image of her pointing to me from across the table in rage about something or other. I'm not minimizing her feelings, but the mood swings and lies have me walking on eggshells for sure. My mother just cries and doesn't say anything.
We also agreed not to do Christmas together this year, then she sent presents through my mother and made me feel awkward as I thought we had decided not to do Christmas this year. My family took a trip instead and got away for a few days. My mother took the gifts as a sign of thoughtfulness, but I didn't accept them and then I was the bad guy. Its just stuff! She seems to shop a lot. Changing the goal posts is in the narcissist's description, yes? Say one thing, do another... .all the time. Say you want to go to counseling together, then complain about the drive and how inconvenient it is.
My folks are old fashioned and keep saying that she has always been this way and they accept her the way she is. They love her unconditionally. It makes it difficult to be able to get her any help, almost like they are hopeless for change. Is there help for someone who is unwilling to see that they have a problem? Why is it so hard to let her go? I have gone no contact for about six months, but still think about the situation every day.
Our school counselor reported the situation to DCYF and they were investigated, then case closed as with many, many cases in our state. I imagine they asked her questions, and because she is a "professional" and married and owns her own home, they may have thought it could be worse and left it alone. I don't even know how it ended because "they" can't disclose if there was help given or suggested, nor can I bring it up with her. She is as angry as a rabid wildcat. I have to let her go and that's just the way it goes... .she's still there, visiting my parents house like nothing ever happened and I have to watch my step when I want to go visit and make sure she is not coming by because I am scared. Is this manipulating?

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi helpforsis:    

she finds everything that bothers her or annoys her about my husband and gets in his face and yells, poking him in the neck. What's the point? In the past, my husband has stepped away and gone outside 

That's disturbing.  Good for your husband for walking away.

You say she is a "professional".  The one interesting thing is that people with BPD can seem normal in the work place, but act out around family.  In some situations, people with narcissistic traits can thrive in the work place.

Does your sister treat your parents the same way she treats you and your husband?

Her kids also have strange behaviors. My daughter told me that they touched her innapropriately, telling me things she should not know at 5 years old. . . .Our school counselor reported the situation to DCYF and they were investigated, then case closed as with many, many cases in our state.

I can understand that you would want to keep your children away from her children.  When it comes to authorities, I think that there has to be a certain age spread before authorities take any action.  Within certain ranges, they tend to categorize it as child play.

Is there help for someone who is unwilling to see that they have a problem? Why is it so hard to let her go? I have gone no contact for about six months, but still think about the situation every day.   

Unfortunately you can't change her.  The only one you have power over is you.  I'm so sorry that your attempt at therapy didn't work out.  At some point, you just have to RADICAL ACCEPT  the situation.  You have to do what is necessary to protect your well being and that of your family.  Some people go back and forth between no contact (NC) and limited contact (LC).  Who knows what the future may hold.  Perhaps some day, she will be open to really try joint therapy.

[helpforsis]

Yes, I am choosing to keep my children away. Her children are 10 and 7 and my daughter was 5 when it was happening. They were very sneaky, telling her to keep secrets, then having her come home with bruises and rash. I still get angry thinking about it. She does not want to see them now knowing that what was happening to her was not normal play.
She is ok with my folks because they don't want to talk to her about being nice. She can do whatever she wants to.
I am struggling with the fact that this weekend is Easter and my mother asked me what I wanted to do about coming over as we have both been invited. I am choosing not to go because I don't feel like walking on eggshells and risk my husband getting attacked for something he may do or say to offend her. He is the target of her anger (with men?) and my kids of course don't want to be around her kids, so we miss out from the gathering with many relatives. It was last year that her kids were being inappropriate in another room while the adults were having coffee and visiting. My kids went and told her. She said, " I will talk to him later" and as my son said "later never happened". I don't want to miss every gathering with aunts and my parents but I won't subject my family to her (jealous) attacks either. I wish someone else would speak up to her.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Perhaps you and your mom could coordinate activities so that you could have your parents over for breakfast or brunch, and then your parents can have your sister over at their home for dinner.

I am choosing not to go because I don't feel like walking on eggshells and risk my husband getting attacked for something he may do or say to offend her. He is the target of her anger (with men?)

The harsh reality is that we never really "Stop Waking on Eggshells" around people with BPD (pwBPD) or other personality disorders.  We can certainly make thing better for ourselves, and walk on less eggshells, but steps have to be taken to get there. Normal discussions with differences of opinions ,on anything, generally won't happen with disordered people.  Best to prepare in advance and use a strategy to NOT engage and to NOT take the bait that could set the stage for bad behavior.

SOME OR ALL OF THE SKILLS FROM THE SURVIVAL KIT BELOW CAN HELP YOU SURVIVE A FAMILY GATHERING WITH A DISORDERED PERSON: (Click on the green words to get to articles/lessons)

1. DON'T JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain) AND AVOID CIRCULAR ARGUMENTS

2. TAKE A TIME OUT

3. USE THE BIFF RESPONSE (Be Brief, Informative, Friendly and Final in your response)

• Keep your response brief
• Just the facts
• Don’t give the other person a reason to get defensive and keep responding
• Just make your message sound a little relaxed and nonantagonistic
• Be careful not to make comments that invite more discussion

4. TRY MEDIUM CHILL

• Tell them nothing, ask them nothing, and offer vacuous pleasantries.
• Don't show anger
• Don't validate or invalidate (by word, expression or body language).
• You are neutral and somewhat neutered.

5. ACT LIKE A ROBOT

ROBOT MODE:
It consists primarily of locking away your emotions and intellectualizing about what is happening between you and the narcissist - instead of feeling it. . .

By putting your emotions out of reach, and blocking them off, you take away their ammunition against you.  They are unable to "read" you.  By cutting off your emotions, you are now on the same playing field with them.  You can coldly calculate your next move,  just as they do.  You are now talking to a Robot as a Robot.  Robots don't emote.  They don't react.  Robots don't care.  Robots can't be guilted, or shamed, or bullied. . .

By putting your emotions out of reach and blocking them off you take away their ammunition against you.  They are unable to "read" you.  By cutting off your emotions, you are now on the same playing field with them.  You can coldly calculate your next move,  just as they do.  You are now talking to a Robot as a Robot.  Robots don't emote.  They don't react.  Robots don't care.  Robots can't be guilted, or shamed, or bullied. . .

It's important to point out that Robot Mode is not about dissociation, spacing out, tuning out or "leaving the room" mentally.  It's about being more present, more aware, more in the moment.  You have to stay with your body and in your mind in order to protect yourself.  It's about walling off your emotions so they are protected, not disconnected.  It's about staying on guard.  It's about putting up your defenses and protecting the sensitive, caring, empathetic part of yourself the narcissist seeks to manipulate.  

Hope something mentioned above can be helpful for you.  Let us know how Easter goes.  Maybe you and your husband might study some of the above strategy and give it a try.  For someone who enjoys cerebral games, you could look at the situation as a challenge or perhaps a puzzle to solve.  

[helpforsis]

We have chosen not to attend, thus eliminating any worries for anyone. I think its not fair for me to lose out and my old aunts to miss out on seeing my kids, but I guess its not about us after all.

[helpforsis]

We have co-ordinated separate gatherings in the past. It has worked out fine and no one talks about the other because no one knows what to say. Meanwhile, nothing is changing or getting fixed. When will I get my sister back? Why is this happening? It doesn't matter what strategy my husband takes, he is bound to get accused of something. I think she just doesn't like men.
She has been physically abusive to her past boyfriends and her husband is now an alcoholic. Her kids are neglected and desperate for attention, so they do bad things. It hurts my heart and I feel like I can't help her fix it. She is obviously miserable and touchy on every subject I talk about. I now have nothing to talk about with her. Everything is offensive to her, but she says she is fine because her career is ok. I once told her that I saw a mutual friend of ours at Walmart and he said "Hi" for her. Her response was "tell him I died". What do I make of these comments?
Thank you both for your replies. They have been empowering and validating.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey helpforsis:   

We have chosen not to attend, thus eliminating any worries for anyone. I think its not fair for me to lose out and my old aunts to miss out on seeing my kids, but I guess its not about us after all.

It doesn't have to be an "all or nothing" situation.  You can radically accept that you sister will likely say offensive things and act in offensive ways.  You and your husband can choose NOT to react to what she says.  Her words have no power to hurt any of you, unless you give them power.

If she physically attacks your husband, then it might be time to involve the police and press charges.  If she initiates a verbal attack at your husband, it takes two to perpetuate that.  If everyone ignores her, and she doesn't get any attention or reaction, her behavior might eventually fade away.

One option is to go to the gathering for the purpose of socializing with the aunts.  As possible, focus your time and attention on the aunts.  If things go bad with your sister, to the point of being intolerable, then it's time to go home.   

When will I get my sister back? Why is this happening? . . .Her response was "tell him I died". What do I make of these comments?

She has a mental condition that she fails to acknowledge.  No one can change her. When she can acknowledge that she has a problem and seeks professional help, things can change.  In the meantime, she is who she is. 

Perhaps is could help to pretend she has a condition like Tourette Syndrome, which is a disorder that can sometimes present with a person bursting out with offensive words. 

Your other alternative, is to invite the aunts to your home to socialize with your children. You can choose to not take on a victim role, and work around situations by using some strategy. It doesn't have to be "all or nothing". It can be possible to enjoy the company of others, and take your sister's power away by ignoring her behavior, not reacting or participating.

[helpforsis]

Thank you! Some of my thoughts were along those lines. This is very helpful.