Just about had it - fed and ready to leave

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Been married to someone for 36 years.  Can be sweet much of the time.  However, I have suspected BPD for some time.  She's made multiple suicide threats over the years, most recently with pills on hand.  She told me she looked up on internet for quantity needed to be lethal (oxycodone left over from surgery).  Routine fits of rage over the years, almost always started out of the blue over minutia.  Has done counseling in past. Said it didn't help or doesn't work.  Has been unwilling to read books that might help.  (I've read a lot trying to cope and make sense of this).  Doesn't think she has BPD or anything of the kind.  Thinks I'm the one with the problems.  My patience and forgiveness is turning to hate and disdain for her.  Detaching.  I'm at my wits end, fed up, and ready to bolt.  Any feedback would be appreciated.

[oldgordonrock]

Been married to someone for 36 years.  Can be sweet much of the time.  However, I have suspected BPD for some time.  She's made multiple suicide threats over the years, most recently with pills on hand.  She told me she looked up on internet for quantity needed to be lethal (oxycodone left over from surgery).  Routine fits of rage over the years, almost always started out of the blue over minutia.  Has done counseling in past. Said it didn't help or doesn't work.  Has been unwilling to read books that might help.  (I've read a lot trying to cope and make sense of this).  Doesn't think she has BPD or anything of the kind.  Thinks I'm the one with the problems.  My patience and forgiveness is turning to hate and disdain for her.  Detaching.  I'm at my wits end, fed up, and ready to bolt.  Any feedback would be appreciated.

[BeagleGirl]

First of all, I'm so sorry for what you are going through. I hope you find comfort in knowing you aren't alone.

I have reached the point of being unable to imagine ever trusting my hwBPD enough to have anything resembling a marriage again. In hindsight, I wish I had given fewer chances before finally separating. I'm starting to see things more clearly and heal enough to see beauty in and around myself again, but I lost more hope for a healed relationship with each "last chance" I gave.

To be clear, I'm not necessarily  talking about a permanent decision to leave. I think that has to come after some healing. I'm referring to a period of separation with minimal/no contact so that you can get out of the fight or flight responsiveness and learn to set boundaries and allow your wife to start to carry the full weight of the consequences you typically shield her from.

Those are my thoughts, but I am sure there are others further along this path that have better insight. Mostly I want you to know that someone out here in cyberspace has heard you, believes you, hurts for you, and wants the best for you.

[oldgordonrock]

Thanks for the input.  Period of separation is an option to seriously consider.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey oldgordonrock, Welcome!  36 years of marriage is a long time.  Other than the suicide threats and rage episodes, what makes you think that your W has BPD?  You mentioned that you've read a lot of books to help you cope and make sense of your situation.  Are those books or articles specifically about BPD?  Sorry for all the questions, but just trying to get a handle on your situation.  Have you made any attempts to employ boundaries?  What are you doing to take care of yourself and your needs?  Fill us in, when you can.

LuckyJim

[oldgordonrock]

After we got married learned about fair amount of abandonment along with physical and emotional abuse she experienced as a child and teenager from parents.  About ten years into marriage I discovered she was bulimic.  She had been able to hide it from me or I was just too naive about eating disorders to recognize it.  I thought it was just chronic bad PMS.  I think she's also OCPD.  Exhibits high risk behavior at time.  Aggressive driver, though she doesn't think so.  Tends to be very impulsive, easily jumps to conclusions.  Some books/articles I've read address BPD.  Some OCPD.  Some just a variety of dysfunctional characteristics/issues.  It's been a challenge to set boundaries because her rage episodes are unpredictable.  12-24 hours later, she'll say she's sorry, ask me to forgive her, which I do, but quickly it's like nothing ever happened.  Sometimes she'll go through the I'm sorry routine only to jump right back into a rage episode.  I've noticed that the emotion of embarassment seems to be a major trigger.  She'll become obcessed with how she thinks others are perceiving her, even people she doesn't know and will never meet, like drivers in other cars.  RE: taking care of myself- I try to eat healthy, exercise regularly.  We have friends we socialize with, but don't have any outside of marriage emotional support, sounding boards related to this.

[oldgordonrock]

Been married to someone for 36 years.  Can be sweet much of the time.  However, I have suspected BPD for some time.  She's made multiple suicide threats over the years, most recently with pills on hand.  She told me she looked up on internet for quantity needed to be lethal (oxycodone left over from surgery).  Routine fits of rage over the years, almost always started out of the blue over minutia.  Has done counseling in past. Said it didn't help or doesn't work.  Has been unwilling to read books that might help.  (I've read a lot trying to cope and make sense of this).  Doesn't think she has BPD or anything of the kind.  Thinks I'm the one with the problems.  My patience and forgiveness is turning to hate and disdain for her.  Detaching.  I'm at my wits end, fed up, and ready to bolt.  Any feedback would be appreciated.

[oldgordonrock]

After we got married learned about fair amount of abandonment along with physical and emotional abuse she experienced as a child and teenager from parents.  About ten years into marriage I discovered she was bulimic.  She had been able to hide it from me or I was just too naive about eating disorders to recognize it.  I thought it was just chronic bad PMS.  I think she's also OCPD.  Exhibits high risk behavior at time.  Aggressive driver, though she doesn't think so.  Tends to be very impulsive, easily jumps to conclusions.  Some books/articles I've read address BPD.  Some OCPD.  Some just a variety of dysfunctional characteristics/issues.  It's been a challenge to set boundaries because her rage episodes are unpredictable.  12-24 hours later, she'll say she's sorry, ask me to forgive her, which I do, but quickly it's like nothing ever happened.  Sometimes she'll go through the I'm sorry routine only to jump right back into a rage episode.  I've noticed that the emotion of embarassment seems to be a major trigger.  She'll become obcessed with how she thinks others are perceiving her, even people she doesn't know and will never meet, like drivers in other cars.  RE: taking care of myself- I try to eat healthy, exercise regularly.  We have friends we socialize with, but don't have any outside of marriage emotional support, sounding boards related to this.

[BeagleGirl]

Oldgordonrock,
How is it going? 

In rereading your post, I "heard" one thing that I'd like to make sure I'm "hearing" correctly.  You mentioned that "It's been a challenge to set boundaries because her rage episodes are unpredictable".  I'm wondering if you feel that boundaries are only/primarily needed during the "bad times".  If so, that might be an area to work on. 

I started thinking about it in terms of parenting (something I feel I do well but DON'T want to have to do to my spouse) and how changing acceptable behaviors for children can not only be confusing for them, but also open myself up to manipulation. 

Example:  Letting child have candy instead of dinner because they did something I like and I want to "treat them".  A few days later, I allow them to have candy instead of dinner because they are screaming bloody murder and I just don't have the strength to deny them food and they won't eat the dinner, and there's candy right there.  I've now failed to set/enforce appropriate boundaries both during "good times" and "bad times".  Child may or may not consciously make the link, but they know that if they try different tactics they might get candy instead of dinner and will act accordingly.

Does that make sense?

[oldgordonrock]

We talk about boundaries in the "good times" and have those we agree on.  e.g. When I drive, I drive.  When she drives, she drives.  I have my space and things in the house/garage, she has hers.  When I chew louder than she expects, that means I'm enjoying the food.  If I chew gum after a meal, I get to chew it as long as I want.  We decide we're going to leave to meet someone at a certain time, that's approximately when we leave, with margin to spare.  With these boundaries and others, without re-negotiating, she sets up in her mind another limit to the boundaries we've agreed on, (that's the unpredictable part) and once she decides this limit, she won't let it go.  Her limit becomes an ultimatum.  If I don't immediately accommodate her new limit/ultimatum, even after reminding her of what we've previously agreed on, she can go so far as to pitch a major tantrum to try to force the issue.  Some tantrums have include beating and scratching herself, throwing things, grabbing the steering wheel and trying to turn it when I'm driving, beating on me, very abusive language to me, suicidal threats, all in and of themselves boundary violations that should need no discussion.

[Lucky Jim]

If I don't immediately accommodate her new limit/ultimatum, even after reminding her of what we've previously agreed on, she can go so far as to pitch a major tantrum to try to force the issue.  Some tantrums have include beating and scratching herself, throwing things, grabbing the steering wheel and trying to turn it when I'm driving, beating on me, very abusive language to me, suicidal threats, all in and of themselves boundary violations that should need no discussion.

Hey oldgordonrock, You describe a classic example of how a pwBPD manipulates the Non with abuse in order to get his/her way.  I like the phrase you use, "major tantrum," because it describes what is essentially juvenile behavior.  Those w/BPD, I suggest, lack the emotional maturity of an adult and are unable to control their infantile responses.  Boundaries are helpful, but have their limitations, as you describe.  It's all abusive, which in my view is unacceptable.  (I should know, having been married to a pwBPD for 16 years!).

LJ

[BeagleGirl]

Her limit becomes an ultimatum.  If I don't immediately accommodate her new limit/ultimatum, even after reminding her of what we've previously agreed on, she can go so far as to pitch a major tantrum to try to force the issue.  Some tantrums have include beating and scratching herself, throwing things, grabbing the steering wheel and trying to turn it when I'm driving, beating on me, very abusive language to me, suicidal threats, all in and of themselves boundary violations that should need no discussion.

I agree with LuckyJim that this is infantile and abusive behavior.  

I find it interesting that you use the word "ultimatum" to describe what she is giving you.  I think that can be seen in two ways.
1. Do what I want or accept my infantile and abusive behavior (the way she wants you to take ultimatum)
2.  :)o what I want or enforce boundaries DESPITE my infantile and abusive behavior (what you said you would do during the "good times"

I definitely can relate to feeling like you have no choice, but many of the things shared on this site have opened my eyes to choices I have not allowed myself to consider because I have tended to default to protecting my husband (and by extension myself) from the consequences of his behavior.  It takes courage and creativity to figure out how to enforce boundaries when the storm hits, and I've seen a lot of good ideas exchanged in the "how could I have done this better" type posts.

I'd like to start off some brainstorming of how you might handle some of the situations you gave as examples:

"Beating and scratching herself" - Do you think she would continue to do so if your response was "I will not stand here and watch you harm yourself." And leave.  If you are unwilling to allow her face the full consequence of her self harm, maybe add something to the effect of "I will be calling you in 20 minutes to verify that you are still capable of picking up the phone and will call an ambulance if you do not pick up."

"Throwing things" - Remove anything that you feel is irreplaceable or of tremendous value to you from your home and store it where she does not have access.  When she starts throwing things, let her.  If she's throwing them at you, leave.  :)on't clean up/repair anything she has broken...  

"Grabbing the steering wheel and trying to turn it when I am driving" - This is probably the most dangerous to you and others.  You may want to prevent this as a possibility by always having her drive or taking separate vehicles.  If it happens, I would be prepared to stop as soon as it is safe to do so, get out of the car, and call a cab to get you back home or to your destination.  What she chooses to do is up to her.

"Beating on me,very abusive language" - You choose your proximity to her.  Would she pursue you if you left the room?  House?  Would she follow you to a public place?  Police station?

"Suicidal threats" - I think this might be the hardest enforcement from an emotional standpoint.  :)o you think that you could say (and enforce) "I care deeply about you and would be very sad to lose you, especially at your own hand, but I have come to terms with my inability to prevent you from committing suicide and that I would not be responsible for your death."  If she starts the self harm, go back up to the "I will not stand here and watch you do this to yourself" response.

These are just a few ideas.  None of them are in any way easy.  And the nature of BPD means that they may not "fix" things. You may have new behaviors to cope with, but I have seen the impact they can have on the non-BPD spouse in terms of feeling more capable.