what the hell just happened

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

my husband collected me from work today... .we were driving home and he overtook a van ( in a national speed limit) However, there was a car on-coming. He just made it and obviousely the can honked his horn and the car flashed their lights... .i was fuming!
we get to the roundabout about a mile up and he just sits there waiting for this van... .( which i didn't realise at the time) cars go around him and eventually the can arrives then my husband leans across me and flips this guy off shouting at the top of his voice which obviousely the can driver couldn't hear but i got it all in my ear... .i said ' i for his sake what is your problem' to my husband. then we continue in our journey. he says i'm fed up of overtaking people then they speed up , i've had enough of it!... .now he always says this ( we have had 4-5 occasions of this over a couple of years. it simply isn't true but he cannot admit he put us in a dangerous position. we get home and i am fuming to the point where i want to throw all of his stuff out including him. he took the dog out and i have come to see a friend for a bit. How do i handle this when i get home as a see potential all for a huge escalation

[Jester20]

my husband collected me from work today... .we were driving home and he overtook a van ( in a national speed limit) However, there was a car on-coming. He just made it and obviousely the can honked his horn and the car flashed their lights... .i was fuming!
we get to the roundabout about a mile up and he just sits there waiting for this van... .( which i didn't realise at the time) cars go around him and eventually the can arrives then my husband leans across me and flips this guy off shouting at the top of his voice which obviousely the can driver couldn't hear but i got it all in my ear... .i said ' i for his sake what is your problem' to my husband. then we continue in our journey. he says i'm fed up of overtaking people then they speed up , i've had enough of it!... .now he always says this ( we have had 4-5 occasions of this over a couple of years. it simply isn't true but he cannot admit he put us in a dangerous position. we get home and i am fuming to the point where i want to throw all of his stuff out including him. he took the dog out and i have come to see a friend for a bit. How do i handle this when i get home as a see potential all for a huge escalation

[Grey Kitty]

You've got two valid choices on how to handle this:

1. Refuse to get in a car when he is behind the wheel.

2. Put yourself at risk of being killed or injured in his road rage.

Then there is what NOT to do with a pwBPD:

As another semi-self-aware pwBPD has said, "I'm crazy, I'm not stupid."

It isn't that he's too stupid to understand the risks of driving that way. You cannot explain them in a way that will help the situation. (In fact, that will be JADEing, which is invalidating, which will escalate things as you fear.)

The problem is that his emotions and his judgement get away from him at times like that, while driving.


You might validate that it *IS* frustrating when somebody speeds up after you pass them. And state that road rage isn't acceptable, no matter what the other driver did.

[Jester20]

You've got two valid choices on how to handle this:

1. Refuse to get in a car when he is behind the wheel.

2. Put yourself at risk of being killed or injured in his road rage.

Then there is what NOT to do with a pwBPD:

As another semi-self-aware pwBPD has said, "I'm crazy, I'm not stupid."

It isn't that he's too stupid to understand the risks of driving that way. You cannot explain them in a way that will help the situation. (In fact, that will be JADEing, which is invalidating, which will escalate things as you fear.)

The problem is that his emotions and his judgement get away from him at times like that, while driving.


You might validate that it *IS* frustrating when somebody speeds up after you pass them. And state that road rage isn't acceptable, no matter what the other driver did.

So am I meant to validate things that are not true? I read a lot about validating how they feel... .but that doesn't feel right to validate something that clearly isn't true?

[Grey Kitty]

So am I meant to validate things that are not true? I read a lot about validating how they feel... .but that doesn't feel right to validate something that clearly isn't true?

You don't validate the invalid. You don't validate things which aren't true.

That said, emotions or feelings are always real and always valid. No matter who has them. Not every sentence beginning with "I feel... ." is in that category.

In this case, he's angry about another driver. That feeling (anger) is valid.

He may insist that the other driver did it just to piss him off. That's not a feeling, and it (most likely) isn't true, and even if it was, you wouldn't know. Don't validate that.

He may have done a bunch of things when he was angry that were foolish, cruel, or even illegal. Again, that they were "the right thing to do" isn't something you have to validate, and most likely again, wasn't valid, and you shouldn't validate it.

[JohnLove]

Validation is a little tricky to understand completely and is even trickier to implement in all situations... .

[BeagleGirl]

I'm still working on the difference between validating/invalidating and condoning too.  I think it goes something like this:

BPD - "You hurt me/made me angry"

Validating - "I'm sorry you are hurt/angry."

Invalidating - "What I did shouldn't have hurt you/made you angry"

Condoning - "I'm sorry I hurt you/made you angry.  How can I fix it?"

For me, validating is about "less is more" for the time being.  I'm still not always sure where to go after validating feelings, but I've found Formflier's posts helpful in illustrating appropriate boundaries.  So for now, I'm a bit in the mode of WWFFD and the answer usually involves saying less than I would normally say and walking away sooner and more often than I normally would. 

[formflier]

Throwing him out... .bad idea.  Not really related to the "offense".

Not getting in a car with him... .while he is driving.  100% related to the offense and 100% effective in dealing with YOUR issue.

HE may still have an issue after this... .or not... .that is not your primary concern.

If I read the post right, there is a pattern of this type of behavior... .correct?  Or... was this the first time he "did" road rage.  

Perhaps I read the pattern as many times "just making it" and only 1 time road rage.

Note:  If this had been me, I would have opened car door and walked away... .called a taxi or uber.

Potentially I would have gotten back in if I could drive.  While it's been a year or so since I have had "an incident" in the car... .they are scary and the danger is very real

So... .after I get answers about how often... I will have some ideas on how to best approach him on this.

Of course... .any time you are scared and the car is stopped... .get out.  

It can be trickier to ask them to stop... .handle that with care because they could do the opposite.

FF

[Jester20]

Throwing him out... .bad idea.  Not really related to the "offense".

Not getting in a car with him... .while he is driving.  100% related to the offense and 100% effective in dealing with YOUR issue.

HE may still have an issue after this... .or not... .that is not your primary concern.

If I read the post right, there is a pattern of this type of behavior... .correct?  Or... was this the first time he "did" road rage.  

Perhaps I read the pattern as many times "just making it" and only 1 time road rage.

Note:  If this had been me, I would have opened car door and walked away... .called a taxi or uber.

Potentially I would have gotten back in if I could drive.  While it's been a year or so since I have had "an incident" in the car... .they are scary and the danger is very real

So... .after I get answers about how often... I will have some ideas on how to best approach him on this.

Of course... .any time you are scared and the car is stopped... .get out.  

It can be trickier to ask them to stop... .handle that with care because they could do the opposite.

FF

This is the 4th time in 5 years this has happened. 2 other times he actually followed people and confronted them. They hadn't done anything wrong. He always says the same thing which is 'they sped up' they didn't.
I did ask him to stop once and he did in a country lane... .I had a 4 mile walk home. I have not got in a car with him for a certain period of time after another one and told him I felt uncomfortable with his behaviour when he was driving and that I believe he was putting me at risk... .he just laughed ( he used to be a rally racer) and says in the whole 25 years of his time he has never been in an accident.
The car is mine and he is only on the insurance as another named driver... .I have thought of telling him I will take him off the insurance if he does this again?
Another thought ( as We haven't spoke about this issue yet) is to ask him to discuss this at group next week as I cannot to,state this behaviour?

[Grey Kitty]

The car is mine and he is only on the insurance as another named driver... .I have thought of telling him I will take him off the insurance if he does this again?

That seems like it misses the target pretty badly--if he is off the insurance, and something goes wrong, you lose insurance to protect yourself.

OTOH, if it is YOUR car, you don't have to let him drive it. Especially when you are in the car. If you choose to enforce that boundary, do it directly, rather than something passive-aggressive with insurance.

[formflier]

Your car... your keys... .your rules.  No debate.

GK is right on target to leave the insurance on there... .BIG downside, little upside.

Does he have his own car?

Now... .think back a bit.  Is there anything in common with the other incidents and what you saw with the most recent incident. 

My goal is to see if "you can see these coming"... .  My guess is that you probably can't... .but it's worth thinking about.

FF

[Jester20]

Your car... your keys... .your rules.  No debate.

GK is right on target to leave the insurance on there... .BIG downside, little upside.

Does he have his own car?

Now... .think back a bit.  Is there anything in common with the other incidents and what you saw with the most recent incident. 

My goal is to see if "you can see these coming"... .  My guess is that you probably can't... .but it's worth thinking about.

FF

Ok, taking him off the insurance is the best thing I realise that. He doesn't have his own car because he has no job, he can't even get benefits because he has never worked in the uk. My car is 16 years old and I'm waiting for him to get a job so we will be in a better place financially.
He has told me now he will look for work in June... .following on from meant to be looking for work in April. I don't have the energy to take this any further at the moment. If he isn't in work by the summer then one of us will be leaving the home.

I don't recall a pattern regarding any of this driving. He just doesn't like anyone Boeing on the road in front of him... .although he denies this. He says cars are to be driven... .not to be a thing to get people from a to b... .now I understand this mentality as it goes back to his love of car racing... .and his racing days. However, I did say to him that he probably needed to appreciate that not everyone on the public roads shares that passion and that he should not expect that sort of mentality from the everyday car user.

[formflier]

How did you got about setting the deadline?  What is he doing in the meantime?

Why not look for work on Monday morning?

FF

[Jester20]

How did you got about setting the deadline?  What is he doing in the meantime?

Why not look for work on Monday morning?

FF

So, he has to have another surgery in 7 days for another kidney stone. This time he isn't in pain ( or as much) as he is able to walk 6 miles with dog etc.
He has now said he will look for work in June after the stone is gone ( he will need a stent for 2 weeks following the op and this was painful last time for the whole time it's in). In the meantime he is erecting a 20 ft by 10 ft greenhouse for me.
I just really do not know how to tackle the work issue. He has spoken quite positively about work now and has mentioned it in reference 5 times in the last month... .compared to nothing over the last 5 years.
I know he is anxious ... .he has been out of work for 8 years now and he knows he will be asked about this. We tried to approach an agency 3 weeks ago and the closer we got to walking in there he started having anxiety and feeling sick... .
He said the group therapy can provide support regarding this and that he has raised it as one of his top priority issues for them to provide support on.

It's very difficult when it's like this because I can see him trying and there has been some change but that isn't going to pay bills, rent, buy a new car etc.

There is a part of me that doesn't want to give up... .I really do believe he will get back to work... .but in his time rather than because I need him to. He knows this is our last chance to save our marriage and even for the arse he is at times I really do not believe he would still be sat here now if he knew he had no intention of getting back to work as he knows our marriage will not survive if that's the case.