anybody recognize this? should i leave? tell him? plse help.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I have been waiting to write this, i do need help.  I am with my partner for almost a year. when we met , he told me he had been diagnosed with ADHD a couple of years ago.

First, he couldn't believe i was real. He loved my attitude towards life, my work  ... .I was to him the most beautiful , strongest woman alive and he had been waiting for me all his life. He said he felt at a certain point i was too beautiful for him and he has got nothing to offer me. a bit weird to me, but dent make much of it.
He starting acting very distant and critical a few weeks in... in the same hour his mood would flip and i would be back on the pedestal. Without any precedent.
One time he told me that if i wouldn't sleep naked he would break up with me. I thought he was joking, but he was serious. i did what he wanted.
I asked him not to idealize me or put me down , said i was neither one or the other.
He got hostile very often, and downright mean. He could just say nothing for a day and then say : i don't even know if i like you.
We had really beautiful nights together. Intense, sweet tantra like. He would say these were the most beautiful nights he ever had. For me too.
A week later , when we would meet, his mind seemed to have taken a 180 degree turn and that night was horrible and if it wouldn't improve he would leave me.
He got erectile dysfunction once i awhile, i think because of the pressure to perform was so high in his mind. I didn't make anything of it, and said it was all ok.
He blamed me for it and said i didn't give my whole heart and he could sense that. if, the next time, it happened again , he would say i am not sexy enough , and asked me if i even knew how to please a man? i had to act sexier and wear more sexy underwear. ... .my heart sank with these remarks. a day later could tell me that he thought he got it because i was the most beautiful woman he ever slept with and he didn't know how to handle that. And then , again , he would be the most gentle, caring person alive. i had never seen such a quick flipping of emotions.

We had great conversations... .but looking back he mainly took support and guidance in my strong opinions and free spirited mind. i was feeling very sympathic and understanding towards him and had an attitude of : 'you are ok the way you are'... .that also contributed to our feeling of connection. he felt accepted. But it seemed the harder i shouted that the more he started pulling me down.

About four months in he told me it was not me but he felt like he is nothing ... .that he hasn't really got anything to offer, and will only hurt me. I was shocked and sad. i know that a team is only as strong as the weakest link, and how important it is, also for me, that he loves himself.
So the attention all went to him and i kept the sadness,  distrust and resentment i had developed towards him , inside.  It was all about how to get his life back together ( i have a steady income , great friends and family ... .so i didn't  need any attention ) I actually was trying all the time for him to love himself, and to look at himself the way i did.
i made so many compliments to him... it seems like a love bomb in order to break his spell. He idealized me, my friends , family ... until the moment he met them and it was all a disappointment.
I don't think i ever made a difference.

We went on holiday 3 weeks ago... .there i saw him 24/7 for the first time, for ten days. he seems to also have idealized the holiday? i don't know how to explain it... .he seemed to be chronically disappointed, expecting the worse to happen to him. A constant anger about to surface.
We were on one of the most beautiful places on earth, (i took him there he didn't have any money at the time) in Indonesia. He didn't seem to see any of it.  He would wake up tired and crouchy. and would freak out of the coffee was not in time. He seemed apathic, not really there. not taking any initiative but critical when i did. He would be very nervous , anxious almost , to talk to people. to a point that i really thought what is wrong with you? ... i asked him if he thought he was depressed. He said no... just too many bad luck things ... i thought: bad luck? 
He interpreted a broken handle of the water kettle bad luck and it would determine his mood. or a tropical rain shower in the afternoon.

About his ex, the mother of his child. he could rage and say she smells so bad and has bad breath, he doe ant like the way she dresses , talks , and she doesn't have any willpower. at another times he would cry and say she is so deep in his heart. Then again she had an ugly face again and had to shut the f*ck up. ( he would tell her in her face on the phone) Now, i know this woman and i do think  she suffers from a severe lack of self-respect... .but she is not a bad person. at all! definetely in no way did she deserve him speaking about her like that. i wouldn't even use this language about my worst enemy.

It comes down to that we broke up 12 days ago.
He said he doesn't know who is is or what he feels. that he had to work on himself. 
I said i couldn't t take it much longer either. He said he hoped the door would stay open. We haven't spoken since. And i am starting to come to my senses.
I think tried to deal with somebody with BPD, i have been reading it is very common with people with ADHD. Does anybody recognize this? i am devastated but clear minded. Sad, doubtful but feel myself again. I could use however a push in the back on how to move from here. Should i tell him what i think?. or just side slide away and stay in no contact. I am afraid to be sucked in again when i do. and i don't know what to do when he would contact me. feel free to comment! J.

[doy]

I have been waiting to write this, i do need help.  I am with my partner for almost a year. when we met , he told me he had been diagnosed with ADHD a couple of years ago.

First, he couldn't believe i was real. He loved my attitude towards life, my work  ... .I was to him the most beautiful , strongest woman alive and he had been waiting for me all his life. He said he felt at a certain point i was too beautiful for him and he has got nothing to offer me. a bit weird to me, but dent make much of it.
He starting acting very distant and critical a few weeks in... in the same hour his mood would flip and i would be back on the pedestal. Without any precedent.
One time he told me that if i wouldn't sleep naked he would break up with me. I thought he was joking, but he was serious. i did what he wanted.
I asked him not to idealize me or put me down , said i was neither one or the other.
He got hostile very often, and downright mean. He could just say nothing for a day and then say : i don't even know if i like you.
We had really beautiful nights together. Intense, sweet tantra like. He would say these were the most beautiful nights he ever had. For me too.
A week later , when we would meet, his mind seemed to have taken a 180 degree turn and that night was horrible and if it wouldn't improve he would leave me.
He got erectile dysfunction once i awhile, i think because of the pressure to perform was so high in his mind. I didn't make anything of it, and said it was all ok.
He blamed me for it and said i didn't give my whole heart and he could sense that. if, the next time, it happened again , he would say i am not sexy enough , and asked me if i even knew how to please a man? i had to act sexier and wear more sexy underwear. ... .my heart sank with these remarks. a day later could tell me that he thought he got it because i was the most beautiful woman he ever slept with and he didn't know how to handle that. And then , again , he would be the most gentle, caring person alive. i had never seen such a quick flipping of emotions.

We had great conversations... .but looking back he mainly took support and guidance in my strong opinions and free spirited mind. i was feeling very sympathic and understanding towards him and had an attitude of : 'you are ok the way you are'... .that also contributed to our feeling of connection. he felt accepted. But it seemed the harder i shouted that the more he started pulling me down.

About four months in he told me it was not me but he felt like he is nothing ... .that he hasn't really got anything to offer, and will only hurt me. I was shocked and sad. i know that a team is only as strong as the weakest link, and how important it is, also for me, that he loves himself.
So the attention all went to him and i kept the sadness,  distrust and resentment i had developed towards him , inside.  It was all about how to get his life back together ( i have a steady income , great friends and family ... .so i didn't  need any attention ) I actually was trying all the time for him to love himself, and to look at himself the way i did.
i made so many compliments to him... it seems like a love bomb in order to break his spell. He idealized me, my friends , family ... until the moment he met them and it was all a disappointment.
I don't think i ever made a difference.

We went on holiday 3 weeks ago... .there i saw him 24/7 for the first time, for ten days. he seems to also have idealized the holiday? i don't know how to explain it... .he seemed to be chronically disappointed, expecting the worse to happen to him. A constant anger about to surface.
We were on one of the most beautiful places on earth, (i took him there he didn't have any money at the time) in Indonesia. He didn't seem to see any of it.  He would wake up tired and crouchy. and would freak out of the coffee was not in time. He seemed apathic, not really there. not taking any initiative but critical when i did. He would be very nervous , anxious almost , to talk to people. to a point that i really thought what is wrong with you? ... i asked him if he thought he was depressed. He said no... just too many bad luck things ... i thought: bad luck? 
He interpreted a broken handle of the water kettle bad luck and it would determine his mood. or a tropical rain shower in the afternoon.

About his ex, the mother of his child. he could rage and say she smells so bad and has bad breath, he doe ant like the way she dresses , talks , and she doesn't have any willpower. at another times he would cry and say she is so deep in his heart. Then again she had an ugly face again and had to shut the f*ck up. ( he would tell her in her face on the phone) Now, i know this woman and i do think  she suffers from a severe lack of self-respect... .but she is not a bad person. at all! definetely in no way did she deserve him speaking about her like that. i wouldn't even use this language about my worst enemy.

It comes down to that we broke up 12 days ago.
He said he doesn't know who is is or what he feels. that he had to work on himself. 
I said i couldn't t take it much longer either. He said he hoped the door would stay open. We haven't spoken since. And i am starting to come to my senses.
I think tried to deal with somebody with BPD, i have been reading it is very common with people with ADHD. Does anybody recognize this? i am devastated but clear minded. Sad, doubtful but feel myself again. I could use however a push in the back on how to move from here. Should i tell him what i think?. or just side slide away and stay in no contact. I am afraid to be sucked in again when i do. and i don't know what to do when he would contact me. feel free to comment! J.

[BeagleGirl]

My first (gut) response is "run, don't walk, away as fast as you can". That comes from a place of bias, so I'll give you my second response:

What you describe fits many more of the BPD characteristics than ADHD. As someone who's husband went for an ADHD evaluation (that I thought completely unnecessary because I would NEVER have armchair diagnosed him as ADHD) and came back with a BPD/DPD diagnosis, I wonder if ADHD is a more palatable diagnosis with a BPD who knows something is wrong and wants a disorder that seems manageable and drives sympathy.

My experience and research indicate that telling your ex that you think they might have BPD would be a waste of time, especially if they don't request your analysis on what went wrong. IF (against my advice) you ever thought about trying to reconcile, it MIGHT be worth saying and I would advise making a psychiatric evaluation and willingness to seek treatment conditions of reestablishing a relationship.

One other observation:  what you see in his ex/mother of his son could very well be the aftermath of a relationship with a BPD. Not that he is necessarily to blame for her issues, but I would be inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt.

[Lalathegreat]

I agree with Beaglegirl. What you are describing mirrors my relationship with a partner who I believe wholeheartedly has BPD. I am in the process of figuring out how to get out and the effort of  trying to improve things in the meantime is slowly destroying me.

I really relate to what you said about your vacation. I recently returned from a trip with my partner that was a complete train wreck. I hadn't understood why, but I think that what you said about idealized expectations makes a lot of sense. I know that he was hoping for one thing, and was very disappointed when the reality was different. The inability to cope with disappointment is pretty classic BPD.

For myself I have chosen NOT to tell him that I think he has BPD because it would not be well received, and I do not believe it would move him towards seeking help but would rather make him more combative towards me.

If I were you I would continue the NC, make sure to treat yourself kindly and step up the self care as you recover, and continue walking away.

[babyoctopus]

Doy, I read this account (and I am sorry you are suffering  )
and its like a step bu step of how a BPD sucks you in with alternating love and hate, beauty and ugliness, happiness and sadness.

It really illustrates in detail how similarly we Nons are sucked in, and why we stay.

There must be something common in US, addictive personality maybe? A need to "fix" someone broken? Loyal to a fault? We fall so hard and then feel like we can't abandon them. I feel the same even after 23 years- when he is sad, I STILL almost cave in - I start thinking: He needs me. I love him. Then I snap the rubber band around my wrist! (We have recycled -break up, make up, repeat- Dozens of times)

I just have to say: Please really think about just breaking it off, now while you can. If you go further, be prepared for a lifetime of this. If marriage and kids enter the picture, the s*** really hits the fan, believe me.

I am divorcing after 23 years. Straw that broke the camels back, finally? It spills over to the precious children- they start in on them. I couldn't bear it.

Hang in there, READ everything, arm yourself with knowledge- most of all stay strong. Don't allow yourself to be abused in any way.

[doy]

Beaglegirl , thank you for your reply. ... .it is on the spot. i  get chills on your first sentence., i never write on forums and to see in words exactly as they happened and somebody responds like that , . it is very confronting, and strengthening. i am grateful.

a slap in the face by reality. 

Baby octopus , you are badass and i think you are doing the right thing.  it will be the best thing you ever did. and you are not alone.
i hope you can take the time to heal as you crawl out of the pit. keep us posted. i think you are right in the diagnosis thing. i read everything i can , and recently came across an article stating ADHD is inborn , and BPD is actually a consequence of it, usually surfacing in adolescence or adulthood. ( it doesn't have to, i believe in 40% of the adhd sufferers it occurs)  it stated BPD is actually a misfiring of brain chemicals, very similar to epilepsy. and that is why BPD sufferers respond well to epilepsy medications. only , these medicine work counterproductive for ADHD. i find it interesting ... .my ( ex) bf also had these muscle twitches , allover his body .whenever he got nervous or exited. i don't know if that has a link. he took ritalin for a year or so, but felt like a zombie on it so he stopped.

as far as the character thing goes... .although subject to abuse, remember guys, there is something to be idealized in us, there is a strong back and shoulders to support someone, there is a lot of empathy, love . that is actually a great combination , were it not we have to step up , recognize that and PUT IT IN THE RIGHT PLACE. i think that is the catch... .i do think i am a fixer, a peacemaker ... .but if anything i hope to learn from this to be very aware of that , and trust my gut when things get stinky. it has never failed me. and i think the same of you guys, you can trust it.

as for me... .i just came back from the gym. m trying to take care of myself even if i don't feel ike. i feel like he wont get me in a place where i will let myself go. 't all goes a little slower, and with a little bit more chocolate, but doin' it.  yesterday i threw him off whatsapp. i also threw away his pictures on my phone. it is harsh but does help a bit in slowly extracting him from my life.   it feels like a task i am performing for the future , i do not feel much right now except for pain, and an instinctive feeling to ' stay away'  your words meant a lot ladies. i cannot believe it has only been twelve days, it feels like 3 months. Doy.

[doy]

it has been 15 days since nc. i am impressed by myself... .still breathing.
he was in a long term relationship when we met. she was providing for him, and still is i believe. she presumably approved of my relationship with him but that turned out merely her lack of self esteem and fear of him leaving her.
it was a horrible and heavenly 6 months ... i was clear in not wanting anything polygamous... he talked with disgust about his wife and said multiple times he is finished with her. . and i was his ideal, the woman he had always hoped for.  
 he has been flipping back and forth trying to get her and me to fit his needs... .but nothing seemed ok , ever. he lashed out at me. then turned around and said he wanted to marry me, the cycle kept repeating every other day. very time he thought i didn;t meet his criteria he would turn back to her, and vice versa.
i kept my cool through it all and treated him really respectful. i did however , mentioned i thought he had a problem that wasn't ADHD ( he had been diagnosed witth a couple of year ago)
it wasn't until recently all the pieces fit together.
i wanted to leave a couple of times before with the reason i felt he first had to figure out his long term relationship and get over that before getting with me.
he didn't want to lose me and insisted on me staying. he said he at least neede 6 months to get his own apartment and detach from his old life, but i should just trust and stay strong. i stayed. what a fool i am . i was in love with him and part of me still is. i mean why? i do not ven get myself anymore.
he has no friends , no job, his father died when he was one year old and he calls his mother cold and has no real contact with her. he has major selfsteem issues, there is nothing left of his wife. he can flip in a whim and turn his back, either way. major red flags.

i went on  holiday with him because i thought he could use it ( i naively thought his mental state could have something to do with the hardship of the situation) big mistake. he was absent, permanently bored , cranky and any minor event seemed to trigger his mood to go explosive... .after we got home the first thing he did was smoke joints and go back to his ( ex) wife... .he slept with her two days after we returned from the holiday. he knew he screwed up , so he broke up with me rather than telling me the truth.
he spoke several times about feeling like he is nothing, a loser... .that i was way too beautiful for him and he would only hurt me.

so he broke it off two weeks ago by saying he doesn't know who he is or what he wants... and that he should just first get his act together, he said he hoped my door stays open for him. but i do not know if to believe anything of what he says.

he surely has hurt me, broken my trust but it seems it is hard for people to understand that when you lose somebody like this it feels like a double whammy. i have to grieve the loss of the relationship but on top op that the desillusion of that person totally not even being the person you grieve. and what the heck is wrong with me for even getting myself into a situation like this?
 
i am determined however scared how strong i will be if he will contact me. for the females dealing with a male BPD , i hope you get some clearness from the article i posted above. it is really good i think . stay well, feel free to post comments. J

[Turkish]

doy,

Can you take him at his word,  even if it hurts?

he broke it off two weeks ago by saying he doesn't know who he is or what he wants... and that he should just first get his act together, he said he hoped my door stays open for him. but i do not know if to believe anything of what he says.

The frustrating and painful words are a given.  I received them,  too, from the mother of my children who left me for a guy 20 years younger.  Trying to wrap our brains around this by ourselves is tough,  which is why I'm glad you've reached out to us for support. 

Have you read the lessons to the right of this board? Lesson 4, particularly,  has info on how a pwBPD (person with BPD) may think and operate in their own emotional world which is difficult to understand. What are your thoughts on going from here given the infidelity? This is tough stuff like I know... .

Turkish

[doy]

hi turkish, yes, i know,  ... .his words say it all.

i am sorry to hear about your situation. when did this all happen to you?  i cannot help thinking it is kind of a blessing to , even if it was against our wishes , and accompanied with a lot of pain... .being saved from any more time with them. because honestly. it is hell. and it does not matter who they are with, it will be hell. because there is no way out of their own brain.

my instincts say mine does know something is wrong with him and he wanted to protect me ( and save his own ass) by leaving.
i know his not ill version respects and adores me truly , a lot of times i felt that he was trying to shield me against... himself.
because i was not going into defense during his rages it made it the more confronting to him that it was not me he was fighting . ( it is a good tip btw, no matter what do not loose your cool, it gives you a lot of peace afterwards)
the infidelity yes, well , however BPD he is and act impulsively, he is completely transparent.
i look right through him. and he knows he cannot lie to me. he was sleeping with her  about four  times with his ( ex) wife when we were together , and all these times he didn't even have to tell me, i could tell by his eyes and body. i would just say: you slept with her.
and he would confirm.
to him it was excusable because she was ' his wife' and his wife approved of him being with me too. and i was the only one making a fusst. i always wondered how he could even have sex with a person he finds disgusting and doesn't seem to have any respect for? but a day later he would flip again and say he would sleep on the couch from then on and i was completely his. this pattern went on for weeks. i doubt if he ever even touched the couch in his house.
it is all very confusing.

i can laugh , have great friends and family... .but i am really, really  depressed atm. it seems the only place where i am really understood is here. it seems i am still in shock and trying to accept.
and where are you now in dealing with everything? are you still in contact with your ex wife?


 

[Mutt]

Hi doy,

I am with my partner for almost a year. when we met , he told me he had been diagnosed with ADHD a couple of years ago.

I'm sorry that you're going through this . BPD has the concurrent disorders ( co morbidity ) than all other mental disorders, experts are not sure why, he was telling the truth to a degree if he is BPD. Most pwBPD have an underlying clinical depression with anxiety, usually therapists want to treat depression first because it can help with the symptoms from the other disorders. BiP ( bipolar ), other personality disorders, ADHD, PTSD, many pwPBD have traumatic experiences in their past and have PTSD.

We're not doctors, only a professional can diagnose but what we can look at are BPD traits.

so he broke it off two weeks ago by saying he doesn't know who he is or what he wants...

Maybe I'm missing something here, I'm sorry if I have, is he cheating? It's common for pwBPD to not know who they are because they don't a fully developed sense self.

What is borderline personality disorder?

Borderline personality disorder is a mental illness that affects the way to relate to other people and the way you relate to yourself. If you’re living with borderline personality disorder, you might feel like there’s something fundamentally wrong with who you are—you might feel ‘flawed’ or worthless, or you might not even have a good sense of who you are as a person. Your moods might be extreme and change all the time, and you might have a hard time controlling impulses or urges. You may have a hard time trusting others and you may be very scared of being abandoned or alone.3

My sense of self changes all the time; I don’t know who I really am8

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-borderline-personality-disorder

Are you certain that he's cheating?

[Turkish]

doy,

It started coming up on 4 years ago.  She moved out February of 2014. We have joint custody of our children.  I have to stay in contact.  We had lunch today with the kids.  The awkward moment was when our 5 yo asked if she was still married to her H. She seperated from him early this January... .a week after they both called the cops on each other for DV. It's a wonder one or both of them wasn't arrested. 

She told me last year that one of the reasons she left me was that she didn't like how she was treating me and didn't want to be that person in front of the kids (shame?). I was briefly angry inside how ridiculous a thing that was to tell a paramour, but let it slide without comment. Though there was probably a little truth there,  that is just insight into how she thinks.

I don't want to hijack your story talking so much about me,  but I will say that trying to understand how a person with BPD traits can help you either detach,  or radically accept that no one is going to change anybody if they aren't willing to change.  This can be hard to see for you know.  It was for me at the time. 

[doy]

thank you , and good morning/night ( i its 10 am in holland).

i am kind of a hermit at the moment. trying to get my head around everything. i am terribly sad still.  tomorrow it will be three weeks. the support i get out of you guys is guiding.

Mutt, yes he admitted sleeping with his (ex) wife , he just didn't see it as such because he was still, kind of, with her? i know it sounds crazy ... but she approved of me being his girlfriend as long as he wouldn't leave her.
she very was angry at me however,... .but let him be with me telling him it was ' all good'  ( ?)
tbh i think his BPD isolated them both from reality and his wife  really lost her boundaries and self-respect along the way of their relationship.
i do not think she ever really 'approved ' him having a relationship with me. I was the third 'affair' in the last five years he had had in their marriage, it just left her afraid and alone.

the last time ( right before we broke up) he didn't say he slept with her agin ... i didn't ask .
but he is not very decisive, in action ... ( in words his mood flips about every five minutes  )
something just really didn't make sense to me,  he had to feel threatened to take a step like this?
we only just got back from holiday three weeks ago when he got the news his wife had let their housevalue be estimated in order to put it up for sale in june.

so things got pretty serious for him losing his 'prime caretaker'... ... it could have scared the wits out of him, realizing the consequence of his actions  and he would have to be out in the world alone soon, with no fixed income?
and my life is still arranged as a single life and i kind of enjoy that.  it would take me much more time to let him move in with me with his son, ( if ever) 
he knew that. 
so my guess is its either he slept with her or he got terrible fear of abandonment.
maybe both.

Turkish, did you doubt yourself a lot during your separation? i was wondering because when you say she has now separated with her 20 years younger H... it must feel validating in a way to know ' it wasn't you' ... and your feeling was correct. however i don't remember correctly if your wife was diagnosed with BPD.


 

[doy]

three weeks in. i am hanging on every word of peeps here, my friends and family. telling me to keep away.
 
it is hard to get up in the morning, but when i turn on my phone and my loyal crew is there it makes me at least feel safe and somewhat comforted. friends are 
still a hermit. really really sad and angry , i know all the facts , i know it all... .but can hardly move.
it is like being in freezing cold water. when you don't move you don't feel as much.

we flew business class together to bali. i just had gotten a big contract signed so i could afford to do something like that. i thought he needed it. that was 4 weeks ago.
we just returned when he said he wanted to marry me and he hoped his ex would be gone when he would come home ( he still lived together with his wife ) she wasn't gone. and i saw her in the gym the next day shooting me with her eyes. i might always be asking myself what happened that saturday night. i guess sex... but considering she was so pissed i really wonder.
maybe just his BPD happened that night:)
when he opened the front door, the next day ... .it was like his soul was gone. it was so weird. i almost took a step back because of the violent emptiness in his eyes, then he just broke it off w me
just like that. almost a year.

and since then there's not a word... not one word, an , are you ok? or an i am sorry. he just disappeared off the face of the earth and that is really hard to deal with.
still it is insane to me that after the time we spent together, right after i gave hin the biggest gift i ever gave... .anyone.

it really seems the more i loved him the more he sabotaged it.

 

[BeagleGirl]

Doy,
   .
I could offer all the platitudes (you're better off without him, it will get better, etc), but I know how painful those can be to hear.  So I'll just offer you hugs and the advice that got me through some of my hardest days.

Do the next thing.

That was the mantra of one of my friends after she found out that her husband had been having an affair for 5 years and now that his mistress was pregnant he wanted to leave my friend with 3 girls under the age of 10. When she felt like she couldn't face the day, she gave herself permission to not face the entire day.  She just asked herself to ":)o the next thing".  She shared that with me and I've never forgotten it.

She also gave me full permission to stay in bed with a book and lots of chocolate on some days. 

For the days when you feel like you can't make it out of bed, try to have a list of the self care "tasks" you can make your goal for the day.  Here are some of mine:

Go for a walk until I see something that makes me want to smile.
Find a funny (or stupid) YouTube video that makes me laugh.
Find a song that makes me remember better times.
Use a hydrating/soothing/exfoliating face mask (I keep an assortment in hand).
Take a warm bath by candle light.
Start a new learning adventure, even if "starting" is nothing more than researching how you would start (look for classes or online resources).
Find a way to make someone else's day a little brighter (compliment a stranger, text a friend who is also going through a hard time to let them know you are thinking of them, etc)
Clean something, then stand back and enjoy the sense of accomplishment.

More     and best wishes.
BG

[Mutt]

Hi doy,

it really seems the more i loved him the more he sabotaged it.

I'm sorry to hear that. I think that's a fair assessment, a pwBPD self sabotage in r/s's, it's the closeness that triggers the symptoms.

t was like his soul was gone. it was so weird. i almost took a step back because of the violent emptiness in his eyes, then he just broke it off w me
just like that. almost a year.

and since then there's not a word... not one word, an , are you ok? or an i am sorry. he just disappeared off the face of the earth and that is really hard to deal with.

This is probably one of the most difficult things to deal with is the lack of closure, many people on the leaving board lacked closure, including myself. When two reasonably healthy in a r/s decide that they can't continue the r/s for whatever reason, they usually give each other closure, some experts say that BPD is a shamed based disorder, it could be that facing you triggered shame, it's another failed r/s for him. We can provide closure for ourselves.

[Turkish]

Turkish, did you doubt yourself a lot during your separation? i was wondering because when you say she has now separated with her 20 years younger H... it must feel validating in a way to know ' it wasn't you' ... and your feeling was correct. however i don't remember correctly if your wife was diagnosed with BPD.

She's clinically diagnosed with anxiety and depression. 

I wouldn't say it wasn't me entirely,  but sometimes core pain can be so powerful to deal with.

What about you? Are you still conflicted?

[doy]

i am walking around in a blanket with one sock on.
normally people look like this when walking away from a burning plane crash site.

yes , i am still conflicted. but walking towards him is no option , in no way. 
part of me hopes, he is doing what he said he wanted to do ( find himself, find his own house and be financially independent) and then be at my door. it would be a dream come true if he did.
but then there is the reality that he has all the classical symptoms of BPD and the emotional pinball was hell.

 i am protecting myself by not acting on my feeling but just go on ratio.
 he has only his wife right now, the only person that is selfdisrespecting enough to accept his behavior. he had multiple affairs, but had never been in love until he met me he said.
. also not with his own wife. i do believe him on that, BPD or not. i felt the same. .
he wanted to take the risk to leave  even when his wife accepted him being with me. but saying is something else than doing.
he is fairly passive and looks up to me. i think he is feeling a lot of shame right now, even afraid to contact me. he has a history of avoiding major things, not finishing it or even destroying them.

so chances are if i keep walking in this direction i will eventually detach.
i am almost sure that if i would text  to see him tonight , he will be there regardless if he is back with his wife or not.
and i am also almost sure that if he would be at my door, i would let him back in. that is about where i am right now. and i am even more sure s*** will hit bigger fans then.

so i will just take my blanket and go find my other sock. walk away from the fire. i will be fine.

[doy]

btw beaglegirl, that tip really works for me. do the next thing. i love it ! thank you.
facial masks i need about 600 to patch things up but hey, there's time.

Mutt yea lost souls i never experienced it so strong as that time. his eyes were empty. just void.
i will never forget it. is that what they call dissociation?

[Turkish]

We have a thread on Dissociation, take a look:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=68392.0;all

I experienced more oddness during the break up with my ex than I had observed the previous 6 years. It was like living with a 13 year old version of herself until she returned to her emotional baseline. 

More unnerving,  however,  was when my BPD mother was living with us (I and the kids) last year.  She felt I was holding her prisoner. I was cooking dinner for us when she confronted me in the kitchen,  waving her calendar on my face,  the days crossed off like a prisoner might do.  She started threatening me with a lawyer.  In practiced calm,  and the tools here.  When she confused 4 months with 1.5 years, I gently corrected her.  She was pretty much in my face.  I saw her pupils dilate (when she snapped back to reality?) Cried a little,  and admitted I was right.  I served her dinner.  I ended up taking her back from where I had rescued her from not weeks later,  been in NC, pretty much, since then.  I felt so guilty... .but add my therapist said,  I have a home when my mom needs a hospital.

I am a huge believer in mercy,  but sometimes there are things beyond us that we can't deal with. 

[doy]

i need to change my status in 'detaching' i think.

to have a parent with a personality disorder is often a foundation of the way we behave later in life. but i think to know is to learn.
turkish, where did you actually ' rescue' you mother from ?

these days i  am eaten alive by the thought this unstable man ( that i am still in love with ) just left me at the frontline and is now back with his ex. i told him , naively , a lot of times that he reminded me so much of my mother. ( who was personally disordered)
dissociation. i am positive now that that is what i saw.
he asked me  three weeks ago if my door 'could stay open' for when he ' has worked om himself'... .i said yes to that , and wished him well. i just told him i loved him so much. not realizing  THAT MOMENT would leave me with so much open ends. open doors... .pffff.

part of me wants to take control and write him that my door is closed. but then i break NC, and will probably be influenced by his reply, whatever it is.
but a tiny part of me is still hoping he will do what he says and it will get better, and i feel as long as i say nothing i will keep that door open .
so i am gong back and forth in my mind about the next step... .i really do not know what to do. close it myself and telling him or just... .stay silent and try to break away without proper closing.
what do you think? any thoughts?




 

[Turkish]

A thought from my therapist a few years ago: "personalities typically don't change."

A nugget from my time mentoring at-risk youth for two years: "you don't know what you don't know."

The latter,  in other words,  if you grew up on a disordered family,  stepping out of the forest to view the trees,  so to speak, can be so much more difficult.  In other words, our perspectives can influence us more than we realize in the present.  It's useful to step back,  pause, and consider how our family of origin (FOO) influences our current world views.

[formflier]

An open door is just that.  It's not a promise.  No need to break NC for something that hasn't happened and may never happen.

If he comes back to you and says he has worked on himself you will know that because he knocked and found an open door to a conversation.

In that conversation you can evaluate where he is at and figure out if he really did "work on himself".

Even more important

Evaluate where you are at.  Even if he did work on himself, you may not be in a place to reconnect with him.  That still leaves the door open.

Please live your life for you.  You have no idea if he will ever come knock or try to open that door.  There is a big difference on "waiting" on someone to open the door and living your life for you... .but leaving the door open to future possibilities.

   

FF

[BeagleGirl]

I think that what FormFlier said is key.  To state it a different way, there's a difference between leaving the door open while you go about living your life, and leaving the door open and camping by it to see if he'll walk back through.

Sometimes we need "permission" to move forward with what we know is best.  Sometimes we need a kick in the pants.    I'm here to provide both/either, as others have been there for me when I needed them. 

Permission:  Your pwBPD has made his decisions.  Ultimately, he may regret them.  He may see that what you offered was a treasure that he was foolish to throw away.  That realization may come to him in a matter of hours or may never come to him.  Either way, HE needs to live with the consequences of those decisions.  It is not your job to save him from himself. 

Kick in the pants:  Your life and love are treasures that you have ownership of and responsibility for.  YOU choose what to do with them.  The relationship that just ended was one in which those treasures were not appreciated and cared for by the person you entrusted them with.  They are now back in your possession.  You could choose to bury them away so that they are still there if your pwBPD decides to value them.  That may feel like generosity (towards your pwBPD) and safety (from others who might treat them with the same disregard), but while they are buried they are of no use to anyone.  You are running the risk of treating those treasures with just as much disregard as your pwBPD just did.  The longer you keep them buried, the harder it can be to dig them up and, heaven forbid, you could forget where you buried them.

Advice:  Take some time to unpack that treasure and get to know it again.  As you (re)discover gems that bring joy to yourself, start to display them.  I would hazard a guess that they will bring joy to others as well.  I have come to think of the process of discovery and display as "Red Dress moments" (I posted about it early this week).  Some day you may be ready to entrust the treasure of your love and life on someone (your pwBPD after he has experienced healing and repentance for what he did to you, or someone new), but if you don't get to know who you are and what you have to offer before handing those treasures over to someone else, you will be stuck in a place where someone else defines who you are and what your value is.  That is a tragedy, in my mind, because too much of what is beautiful and valuable may remain hidden away or squandered.

Those are my two cents. 

BeagleGirl

[doy]

FF- it is still weird to me ( and very special) that people i never met can be of so much help.
i cannot help wondering what you all look like and what your real names are. thank you. 

BG- WOW. i read what you wrote three times and it takes me another couple of times to sink in. basically it is exactly where lots of us are.
you should get paid for these kind of writels. it is so strong and true i got the chills. you definitely own that red dress.
i read you are just came out a very hard situation yourself and it is still not that easy sometimes. i am all for the venting anger thread   ... .i could use it very badly myself.
although your exBPD has the big house and all the perogatives to break down , you have the one thing that no house , car , job can measure up to. that however small you live, or what you have to sacrifice for it  is more valuable than anything else: YOUR MIND.

i am a strong believer that  goodness/karma will always find its way , not because of any religion or spirit but by the simple fact that water always seeks its own level.
injustice happens to the best of hearts, but anyone, whether you ex BPD or you , will surround themselves with what comes to them after expressing there (un)truest self.

i am in that fight, as are most of you.
although broken and disappointed now i am sincerely proud of the person i have become and how i have dealt with dark forces that came my way. i am capable of loving wholeheartedly and standing straight.  and i will keep doing that.  it always returned to me in the shape of loyalty, respect, good friends in the end.
when i let these boundaries cross, in this case by this person with BPD
 , i MYSELF express an untrue version of myself.
and so i get what i give. an untrue , disrespectful love in return. its how it works, right?
i can only let go of that. and the only way i can ever allow him to return is when he is on that level.

this might be one of the hardest things i ever went through. i am going for it.

[formflier]

FF- it is still weird to me ( and very special) that people i never met can be of so much help.
i cannot help wondering what you all look like and what your real names are. thank you. 

https://youtu.be/CgMfqLzA0SY

It's a great video... .but if you want to get the important point you can go up to the 3 minute point and listen to the part about growing a mustache... .   

https://youtu.be/oNk6-0rDdto

Anyone want to guess my feature that I'm most proud of?

Hehe... .

Imagine a 47 year old version of those young guys heading out the carrier.   It was a long time ago that I did that... from Key West, FL.       Oh... .and I was definitely cooler and more handsome...

You did ask...    

FF

[doy]

hahaha whaaat? tbh i was imagined form flier to be a woman in her 30's.
shocking. cannot stop laughing though.

[doy]

how crazy is this? 

i was complimenting him and saying all the time he was perfect the way he was , while deep down inside i felt the OPPOSITE.
HE was criticizing and putting me down a lot, while he actually felt the OPPOSITE about me.

the only time when the truth came out was in highly emotional moments. only then i dared to say his behavior was not ok. and only then he dared to say how beautiful he actually thought i was.

the fixer and the destroyer combo.