First post. Still with H BPD Dx. Is it Depression? Child? Financial interest?

[Nordrhein]

Hi everyone! I have decided to make my first post here.
I have been dealing with H's D of BPD (with NPD traits, heteroagression etc.) for nearly two years. We have been together for nearly 7 years, the first 3 - a blissful - ILLUSION, except for his drug abuse. Nothing heavy, or so I believed, marijuana and - legal highs, until one day he went pretty much J. Nicholson Shining on me with "withdrawal symptoms" when he stopped smoking (more on the full story in the other category). So he checked into the psychiatric hospital to deal with his drug abuse, and two months later came out with, well, an "impressive" D, to say the least, that had pretty much NOTHING to do with his "habit".  Who could resist falling in love with a practically full blown psychopath, right? And I have read the works of Dr. Cleckley and Dr. R. D. Hare and ... .a number of authors dealing with pure psychopathy, so am kind of aware of the distinction. So, my loved (?) one is a full blown BPD with a fair amount of psychopathy traits. What the hell am I doing still living with a person like that? After going full circle through the hell of - grieving the ILLUSION for one (Curiously1, I just stole that from your post title, it sums up this topic perfectly).

I have done the "leg work" of healing, helped by all the lovely authors and their works on all the BPD related topics and would like to think that I am over it, and in many ways I am. I have done my bursts of crying, raging, obsessive thinking, depression, and finally coming out out of it with all sorts of new knowledge about BPD and myself and finally seeing the TRUTH. Both about him and myself. I even filed for divorce, equipped with every proof and knowledge I could possibly need to realize that I simply had to RUN away from that situation. Well... .turns out, I am still stuck. The toll of it all can be that profound.

Now I rate moderately depressed. If I could just add that my personality traits include just about EVERYTHING "needed" to be found in this sort of relationship in the first place. Among others, M w BPD (as I have learned) I was a HUGE caretaker, never asked for help, I could manage/cope on my own, I don't give up easily, always the team player, always willing to go the extra mile, anticipate the needs, diffuse potentially explosive situations, most people who know me say I am funny, outgoing, smart... .So to admit to myself that I could possibly be DEPRESSED? No, that happens to other people, not me. But, what other explanation is there but the toll of living with a HBPD with psychopathic traits?

Here I am, two years on after the first big alarms, having previously been a ferociously independent single mom, with relatively successful career... .Still not capable of making the next move. The only move that would make sense for ME.

HOWEVER (spoiler alert: MY EXCUSES!)
We have a D5, she adores him (or the illusion of him) and he is (when he can find the time) wonderful to her. The MAJOR dilemma is how long I should keep up the illusion for her?

There has never been "classic" physical violence or open conflict other than a few shouting incidents in all of these years, and those were probably mostly my outbursts when the caretaker just couldn't take it any more. He sticks to the ignore/no communication approach, assisted by smoking... .weed, hash... .as that is the only thing to keep the monster inside in check, (he won't take medication).
And being the bright little spark that our D is, she would not stop asking questions day and night until I broke down and told her the truth she is in no way ready for. THAT would really crush me. To look into those beautiful, blue eyes and tell her - I'm so sorry, baby, but your dad is a - monster, actually. So we can't live together with him any more. She hasn't really seen of felt any of it. As far as I can tell, anyway. In that respect, I am still caretaking, covering for dad when he's in his own world - most of the time. Even when he was gone "because he was ill" or "had to go away for work", i.e. when I kicked him out of the house, but couldn't tell her that, she was inconsolable, asking every night when daddy was coming back, why he was not reading her the stories any more, not taking her out to play. THAT was - devastating. I could not keep the lie going on forever, and I can't face telling her the truth. Back then she was 3, so it was kind of manageable. Now that she is 5 - nothing much gets past those little radars... .so... What to do with her? I know long term there could be even more heartache, but at least she has some kind of a father figure, even if it is a hologram.

There is another thing, or - ulterior motive, should I say. No, I am no angel - after supporting him financially and in every other way for five years, he finally got a job and is now supporting us. For that to happen, I had to kick him out of the house, cut all financial ties and file for divorce. He begged and crawled his way back in, promising everything... .a BPD would... .He would do everything for me and our daughter... .We are the only people he needs in his life... .Needless to say, he hates every minute of it now, and he's only been working for a year after his 5 year "sabbatical" since we have been together. Prior to moving in with me he lived his whole life with his parents. Now the only conversation we can ever have is about HIM and the work HE does and how exhausted HE is etc. Yes, I am still bitter about all the genuine love and good will, financial support and work, CARETAKING in other words I wasted on him. I knew there was no way his newly found enthusiasm for work and supporting us financially would last, after all... .BPDs don't do lasting enthusiasm. Were we not all the object of their all-encompassing enthusiasm once, and look at us here now! But, this "punishing" him (expecting your spouse to contribute financially) is helping me in a way to stay a bit longer, give our D time with him before he gets worse with his illness(es), and worse he will undoubtedly get, and then it will be decided for both D and me. Until then I am ... .lingering.

I know now I can never expect any kind of emotional support or love from him. My needs, or anyone else's for that matter, don't really exist in his ill mind. He is a predator who is at the moment keeping it together for the sake of his appearance to the outside world (the lovely father, devoted family provider) with only one person's interests at heart: his own. I am clear about that. He will never, cannot ever change. So, I guess I am trying to at least get some financial compensation (although the sums are in no way equal) petty and revengeful as it is, and to give him a taste of what it's like to support someone for the first time in his life. Someone also being his daughter! The only way to ever get to him. That he should have to share something of HIS with someone else. After, of course, taking EVERYTHING of yours. That is the only way to touch him. Or otherwise, I would have to work day and night and exhaust myself all over again, to be a single mom with no free childcare (we have moved to another country in Europe, so no family, to help, for what it's worth anyway) no respite... .And certainly no way of expecting him to pay child care once I call it a day.

Expert advice is gold, but is not all applicable in real life. We don't live in vacuum. It is hard to implement all those noble principles of non-negotiation with "terrorists", zero tolerance... .I have also learned that. That I am just an ordinary human being, like most, with flaws and I don't forever have to be the martyr, leading by example, sacrificing everything for higher ideals... .Because... .As one of the authors put it nicely- guess what, there are no medals for that in everyday life! Other than a couple of friends maybe... .No-one cares! I found that well-meaning people who offer well-intentioned advice don't always practice themselves what they preach. Plus, ultimately, I would be the one worse off, in real terms. The terms of unrelenting everyday life of a single parent of a young child. I have been there before with my S16 (S is now attending school in another country and living with my ex), and that is what I am facing again when I leave. So, I guess I am still buying time, if I am completely honest.

Maybe I have learned the skills of living with a BPD, but ultimately... .There is no life with a BPD spouse. Not as it should be. No partnership is perfect, but this is really just an illusion of a partnership. There have never been two equal or at least close to equal partners. In any way. Two adults are needed for that. BPD is forever stuck at grumpy teenager stage at best, difficult 2-year-old at worst. So... .What's there to think about so much? Thoughts, please! And sorry for cramming so much info into one post.

[DaddyBear77]

Hi Nordrhein, and welcome to the bpdfamily! 

Your story sounds so intense, and even though you may have felt you crammed a lot in, I'm sure there is much much more to this story which hopefully you will share with us as time goes on.

One part of your post that stood out is D5 and the issues she's going to need to deal with as time goes on, not the least of which is the realization that her father suffers from a serious illness.

I thought your post would be something folks here in the co-parenting would really be able to help with that.

Good luck Nordrhein and look forward to hearing more soon!

[Nordrhein]

Thank you for the welcome and support, DaddyBear77,
 
yes, there is a lot more where this came from. Unfortunately. I am just not sure where to even begin! The issue with D is, however, central. I will try and take in as much as possible of other members' experiences, get my bearings around here and then spread my "saga" into appropriate "developmental stages" (topics) or, rather, try to retrace (with less cramming) the makings of this unbelievable mess. Thank you.

[livednlearned]

Hi Nordrhein,

Welcome and hello

Your story sounds familiar! No judgment here, I walked many of the same parts of the path you are on. It's not easy and when it comes to staying/leaving when a child is involved, the devil is in the details, as they say.

We have a D5, she adores him (or the illusion of him) and he is (when he can find the time) wonderful to her. The MAJOR dilemma is how long I should keep up the illusion for her?

What is your D5 like? Does she seem to display traits you might describe as sensitive genotype? Meaning, does she handle separation stress with a normal degree of resilience? Some kids are genetically predisposed to suffer abandonment depression. From what I have read, this fragility is evident at a fairly young age. My son displayed some of this fragility, what I referred to as "big feelings," when he was a toddler. He was a happy little guy who craved his dad's attention, and yet seemed to be more emotionally sensitive than other kids, boys in particular. Between 18 and 36 months, there is a big developmental push where kids try to separate from primary caregivers with confidence and autonomy, knowing they can return and receive reassurance from mom or dad. In daycare, my son sort of fell apart and had a hard time consoling himself, something the attachment theorists say can be a sign of emotional sensitivity.

He is currently being treated for anxiety + depression. I learned to parent him as though he had emerging BPD just in case.

We left his dad at age 9 because there was no way to provide the kind of healing + parenting needed to raise that kid the way he needed to be raised. 

There has never been "classic" physical violence or open conflict other than a few shouting incidents in all of these years, and those were probably mostly my outbursts when the caretaker just couldn't take it any more. He sticks to the ignore/no communication approach, assisted by smoking... .weed, hash... .as that is the only thing to keep the monster inside in check, (he won't take medication).

I understand. He isn't hitting you or hitting D5, and the parched desert of emotional maturity and lack of genuine intimacy does not reach the level of outright abuse for you or your child.

This may be hard to hear, it's certainly hard for me to write

What we do to protect our kids in these relationships may be harder to measure but perhaps equally devastating. Sometimes, it is what we do that cuts the deepest, all done in the name of love, of course.

I did versions of this:

I am still caretaking, covering for dad when he's in his own world - most of the time. Even when he was gone "because he was ill" or "had to go away for work", i.e. when I kicked him out of the house, but couldn't tell her that, she was inconsolable, asking every night when daddy was coming back, why he was not reading her the stories any more, not taking her out to play.

We are the "well" parents. Our kids learn what is real and not real from us, they learn whether their feelings can be trusted and processed from us. We are the ones who model emotional resilience for them -- a lot of codependent types like us did not necessarily learn this in our family of origins and have to figure this out with therapists and counselors and the school of very, very hard knocks.

Whether you stay or go, my advice to you is to trust D5 can handle difficult feelings. You can do this by validating how she feels, by bearing witness to her pain and suffering and letting her know, through your actions, that you have confidence she can survive these feelings.

":)addy was being mean to me and I don't let people do that. So I decided we needed to take a break and let our emotions cool off a bit. So I'm giving myself a time out. My job is to keep us safe and the best way to do that right now is to take a break. It really hurts to not see daddy right now, and I am sad, too. How about whenever you feel sad, you tell me and we can hold each other and I'll be here for you."

Something like that. 

I guess I am trying to at least get some financial compensation (although the sums are in no way equal) petty and revengeful as it is, and to give him a taste of what it's like to support someone for the first time in his life.

Wanting him to help support the family is in no way petty or revengeful. More important is to work through the feelings of anger you have. Anger is a really good at motivating us to do something and can be super helpful that way. Anger is also often a secondary emotion, usually masking a much more difficult emotion that we don't want to fully feel.

I guess I am still buying time, if I am completely honest.

That is perfectly honorable! Go slow and work toward your long-term goals the way you believe will work best for you and D5. Other people have no idea what we deal with, as good as their intentions may be.

These are not easy marriages, and the divorces are certainly no picnic either. Plus, you have a BPD legacy in your family of origin, so you're likely trying to sort out how that stuff works, too. Getting to healthy is the hardest thing I've ever had to do. And, you have to be twice the parent for a child who you are trying to protect from her very own father. Imagine the parenting books we would write 

Lesson 5 on this board to the right (Raising an Emotionally Resilient Child) has helpful materials to navigate some of this stuff. If nothing else, study up on validation -- your D5 probably has a deficit in this area with her father being BPD.

And in the meantime, be gentle with yourself. You have enough forces working against you as it is, no need to add another tough critic to the bench

[Nordrhein]

Hi, livednlearned,

thank you so much for your reply and great analysis. Sorry it took me a while to reply, I live in Europe, so the time zones are a bit of a factor. As well as I really had to read your reply several times and it touched upon some important stuff!

Some of the things, such as considering possible BPD traits in D, I haven't thought about much, if at all! She was ok during the separation phase, never problems with staying in daycare. But when you mentioned it, it crossed my mind that because of my work she started the creche at 8 months. Maybe that is significant for potential separation/abandonment issues later. We have changed 3 countries in 3 years, but every time - adaptation at daycare (kindergarten) went normal, and she really enjoys it. I will certainly go through suggested reading.

However, my S, now 16. HE is the one I have only recently started thinking might actually have BPD traits. Which is probably why hBPD, when he came along, went under the radar for so long. I was simply used to the behaviour of the then 10 year old with frequent outbursts of anger, selfish behaviour, defiance, attention seeking, sometimes displaying lack of empathy. And trying to cope on my own as best I could or thought was best, I was doing everything to appease him, as his dad chose his career (in Middle Eastern war torn countries, I shall say) over us when S was 7, and he had little contact with him due to the nature of such work (they would only spend part of the summer holidays together, and maybe several weeks a year when ex could come and see him). So, he craved dad's attention badly as well. Now that he actually lives with his dad, which I consented to thinking it would finally be dream come true for him when his dad suggested it, hmmm, everything not exactly so rosy, I hear (from his dad!). In other words, he has always been a child difficult or near impossible to please, with pretty much the attitude my way or the highway. Even before divorce, when his dad was generally present (always traveled a lot, though). Now, does that ring any bells (or should I say - alarms)?
I wondered how old is your son now?

Whoo, this one choked me. But, of course you are right. I rarely let things just happen, always feeling the urge to pre-empt, prepare, remove potential obstacles (as perceived by me) in advance, prevent the catastrophe that might not be there at all? And it is exhausting being on the SWAT team active duty 24/7. But I do it (on auto-pilot). How do I know what D's actual response would be? Even though she is in the daddy-adoring phase, she might be sensing things and would completely blow me away with her reaction, nowhere near the visions of utter catastrophe I have?

Today, for example, was H's first day off in - days. Instead of spending the afternoon (after daycare) with her, as he is working on the weekend again, after he had already rested enough, sleeping most of the day... .He barely managed to get up at 15h to come with me to pick her up as he told her he would, and then the rest of the afternoon was spent frantically typing on his cell, trying to find a friend who had something for rolling up. Dismissed her asking him to go to the library with her (something I suggested they could do) but going out twice instead to get the weed. Came home, more typing, then the effect wore off, irritable, avoided D and mostly ignored her invitations to play with her, and then announced he was going to bed as he was - absolutely exhausted with a thumping headache? That is something I am finding excuses for? It kills me when he is like that with her, even though it shouldn't - what else is there to expect? But he is her dad. She just deserves the best dad ever (like any child, of course) so why is he not being IT? I will work on getting over that as well. It is not happening, it is how it is.

Thank you for all the support regarding the financial stuff as well. As I read some of my posts (I've only done a few) - you are right, I do sound angry. I will look into that. It is maybe because in my mind, everything is clear regarding my feelings for H. There really isn't much except irritability, sometimes more, sometimes less, I just don't want to be near that person any more. I used to look at him and think: wow, can't believe this hot, smart guy is with me, with a heart full of genuine love! And now... .Sadly, I only see a sick, tortured soul, a mentally ill person, and can't possibly think in those terms any more. Maybe reflection of my impatience. In my mind I have figured "everything" out about BPD, I see his actions now for what they are and it just irritates the hell out of me that I am still where I am-near him! I should be long gone! Can't help it!

It startled me when you wrote 'codependent'. More than I would ever say for myself. Yes, fear of abandonment and codependency are my issues, for sure. Sometimes black and white thinking as well. But hey, so many lovely BPD people in my life... .Some of it had to rub off. 

Thank you again for all the kind thoughts and great insight, livednlearned, I really appreciate it!