What is the strategy when it comes to this?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Can you see how some (or most) of that can be invalidating?

She tells you how she's feeling... .you plead your case.

She tells you that she'll talk to you about it later... .you press too hard.

She tells you that she doesn't think that you care... .you tell her that she wrong by "assuring her that you love and care about her."

damn reading this just royally got to me.

This has literally been the case between my ex and I. I never viewed it as invalidating her and thus doing the one thing that hurts her the most, I am literally blown away by this thought.

That is quite a depressing thought. Telling someone you love them, invalidates them, and pushes more of a wedge between you. mindf*cked.

What is the strategy when it comes to this? I fear in my current situation, it is too late, but what would have been the optimal way to proceed?

[Tdj]

Can you see how some (or most) of that can be invalidating?

She tells you how she's feeling... .you plead your case.

She tells you that she'll talk to you about it later... .you press too hard.

She tells you that she doesn't think that you care... .you tell her that she wrong by "assuring her that you love and care about her."

damn reading this just royally got to me.

This has literally been the case between my ex and I. I never viewed it as invalidating her and thus doing the one thing that hurts her the most, I am literally blown away by this thought.

That is quite a depressing thought. Telling someone you love them, invalidates them, and pushes more of a wedge between you. mindf*cked.

What is the strategy when it comes to this? I fear in my current situation, it is too late, but what would have been the optimal way to proceed?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

What is the strategy when it comes to this? I fear in my current situation, it is too late, but what would have been the optimal way to proceed?

Be deliberate about expressing affection or "disaffection" for her... .or a situation that she is describing.

Note:  This also has the ability to smooth out "push/pull"...

So... .example of deliberate.

"are you asking me to express my feelings about xyz?"  If you get anything other than a clear yes... .there is something else afoot and be doubly cautious about expressing your feelings in an uninvited manner.

So... let's assume you get the green light.

She has said something negative and your opinion is negative as well.  Then you should say it with less harshness... .closer to neutral.  You get to be honest, aren't invalidating (try to convince her of goodness) and you are helping smooth things out.

Personal story:  I did a lot of damage to my r/s by "proving" or "invalidating" my wife by proving I was not a cheater.  Very hard to resist proving innocence, especially when there is clear cut evidence (such as me being in another location).

Remember, it's not about the truth... .it's about her feelings and helping to calm them.  Or better yet... .letting her calm them without outside interference.  . 

Once I stopped invalidating, my r/s has gotten much better.  So I would resist thinking it is too far gone.  It's never too late to start being a healthier relationship partner.

FF

[Tdj]

Be deliberate about expressing affection or "disaffection" for her... .or a situation that she is describing.

Note:  This also has the ability to smooth out "push/pull"...

So... .example of deliberate.

"are you asking me to express my feelings about xyz?"  If you get anything other than a clear yes... .there is something else afoot and be doubly cautious about expressing your feelings in an uninvited manner.

So... let's assume you get the green light.

She has said something negative and your opinion is negative as well.  Then you should say it with less harshness... .closer to neutral.  You get to be honest, aren't invalidating (try to convince her of goodness) and you are helping smooth things out.

Personal story:  I did a lot of damage to my r/s by "proving" or "invalidating" my wife by proving I was not a cheater.  Very hard to resist proving innocence, especially when there is clear cut evidence (such as me being in another location).

Remember, it's not about the truth... .it's about her feelings and helping to calm them.  Or better yet... .letting her calm them without outside interference.  . 

Once I stopped invalidating, my r/s has gotten much better.  So I would resist thinking it is too far gone.  It's never too late to start being a healthier relationship partner.

FF

Thanks for the reply Form,

Good thoughts. Unfortunately my situation is basically like your personal story. My ex thought j was cheating and wanting to get back with my ex wife for the latter half of the relationship. It boiled over in the last month and she has me completelt black. I couldn't understand it and even had my ex wife personally message her and tell her nothing is going on. That was a week ago and since then I've had no word from.her. Pretty upsetting.

[formflier]

Please look at the correlation between your efforts to prove yourself white and her apparent decision to paint you black.

It certainly is counter-intuitive... .paradoxical... .whatever you want to call it.  It doesn't make sense

Try to adopt some pragmatism... .realize what doesn't work... shrug your shoulders and put energy into what does. 
 
My guess... .and yes it is reading tea leaves... .but my guess is that your ex contacting her to swear nothing is going on "confirmed" lots of things for her... .

Likely "why deny it so strongly... .they must really have something to hide... "

Again... .big picture tea leaf reading... .you will never know for sure.  What you do know is that you made lots of efforts to "assure" her... .how did that turn out?


FF

[Tdj]

Please look at the correlation between your efforts to prove yourself white and her apparent decision to paint you black.

It certainly is counter-intuitive... .paradoxical... .whatever you want to call it.  It doesn't make sense

Try to adopt some pragmatism... .realize what doesn't work... shrug your shoulders and put energy into what does. 
 
My guess... .and yes it is reading tea leaves... .but my guess is that your ex contacting her to swear nothing is going on "confirmed" lots of things for her... .

Likely "why deny it so strongly... .they must really have something to hide... "

Again... .big picture tea leaf reading... .you will never know for sure.  What you do know is that you made lots of efforts to "assure" her... .how did that turn out?


FF

Yea I agree and clearly that was the case. Obviously hindsight is 20/20. Dealing with her has been the most confusing thing of my life. I love her, still do, but I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't.

You are probably right that she took my ex reaching out to her as confirmation something was going on, and not gonna lie, that hurts because there is not a damn thing I can do about it.

[formflier]

  there is not a damn thing I can do about it.

A bit of an argument here... .

You can learn your lesson and deliberately decide to do the next "accusation" different. 

I'm going to steal a Grey Kitty line... ."nothing good will come of that... ." is right on point for trying to correct the "sins" of the past.  They are gone... .let them go.  Just "do" the next one better.

Now... .if she brings it up.  Succinctly apologize and move on.

"This issue was between the two of us.  I was wrong to involve others.  Please accept my apology."

over... done... .move on and only if she dredges it up.


FF

[Tdj]

A bit of an argument here... .

You can learn your lesson and deliberately decide to do the next "accusation" different. 

I'm going to steal a Grey Kitty line... ."nothing good will come of that... ." is right on point for trying to correct the "sins" of the past.  They are gone... .let them go.  Just "do" the next one better.

Now... .if she brings it up.  Succinctly apologize and move on.

"This issue was between the two of us.  I was wrong to involve others.  Please accept my apology."

over... done... .move on and only if she dredges it up.


FF

Thanks FF,

I think that is good advice. Problem is I may never hear from her again.

[formflier]

  Problem is I may never hear from her again.

This is debatable... .

If she takes all of these events as "the thing" that leads her to end the r/s and leave your life, then I would think that is a marker of how affected by this BPD thing her life really is.  In which case this "solves" a problem or at least "clarifies" what used to be a problem in your life.

This would be a time for RA.  She really does look at the world in such a different way and there is little I can do to change that.  This is really incompatible with a close committed relationship.

Yes... you will likely feel sad for a while (and you should... completely valid) but I would say that is life to be experienced, vice a problem to be "solved".

OK... obviously I'm a language guy and get pretty picky.  I do think language drives mindset and your mindset can be revealed by your language.  Deliberately changing your language and approach, even if it feels weird, can help change mindset.

Now... if she does return.  There is some RA there as well.  You get another chance.  I would encourage you to evaluate the facts when and if that ever happens and decide if you want to proceed or not.

FF

[Tdj]

This is debatable... .

If she takes all of these events as "the thing" that leads her to end the r/s and leave your life, then I would think that is a marker of how affected by this BPD thing her life really is.  In which case this "solves" a problem or at least "clarifies" what used to be a problem in your life.

This would be a time for RA.  She really does look at the world in such a different way and there is little I can do to change that.  This is really incompatible with a close committed relationship.

Yes... you will likely feel sad for a while (and you should... completely valid) but I would say that is life to be experienced, vice a problem to be "solved".

OK... obviously I'm a language guy and get pretty picky.  I do think language drives mindset and your mindset can be revealed by your language.  Deliberately changing your language and approach, even if it feels weird, can help change mindset.

Now... if she does return.  There is some RA there as well.  You get another chance.  I would encourage you to evaluate the facts when and if that ever happens and decide if you want to proceed or not.

FF

Thanks again FF, that was actually INCREDIBLY helpful to read. I am not sure if you have read any of my other posts in other threads but basically my ex always questioned my loyalty to her, was convinced I wanted to be back with my ex wife. I was not perfect but I never cheated, and did far more to prove I wanted to be with her than not. However in the end she was set off by things out of my control and or knowledge  and blamed me for it. With that said, you are right in about language and perspective. I have always seen things as me needing to provemyself to her, and more specifically trying to "fix" her doubts about me.

I am finally starting to see that you are right when you say that the way things have gone are incompatible with a close committed relationship. It has definitely been all about her and her needs and very little about mine. The pendulum never swung my way unless i forced it to, and that never ended well. Your words bring me back to our therapy sessions with a MFT who would often tell us my needs were not being met, and that control was all that she was after, however that need for control was insatiable and just became.more and more extreme.

Honestly thank you very much, I never saw things this way before.