Pushing and Pulling

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

My 17-year marriage is ending. I was served yesterday with divorce papers from stbxndBPDw. She told me April 27th what was coming. We're both in the house although she has been staying "at a friends' place" about half the time, and the other half she doesn't want to cross paths with me. She has accused me of affairs, putting spyware on her phone and computer, and having secret bank accounts; all of which are not true and fantastical. She destroyed my first anniversary gift to her. Before it ended she was not sleeping in the same bed with me and locking the door to our bedroom. We were in couples therapy trying to address our issues; I felt like we were making progress and even had two nights of amazing sex a few weeks before she started locking me out.

Today, the push-pull.

This morning I got up from the patio couch to go to work and she was up waiting for me. Wanted to talk. She wanted "my help" because she couldn't access her phone records. She couldn't remember her passwords. She couldn't find things she needed to find. FOR THE DIVORCE. And she wanted my help. Jesus. I said I would look into it and tried to end the discussion. She persisted, accusing me of hacking her phone, closing her out of accounts, and changing passwords. I walked away to brush my teeth.

When I came out she was ready to start it up again. "Can I ask you a question?" she asked. "Why am I so mad?" Inside, morbid me had a chuckle. I said I wasn't angry, but I was hurt, scared, and defensive and wasn't going to entertain these conversations if I was going to get attacked. She started to attack, so I walked away again, ready to leave for work.

She continued, asking me for the wifi password. The password which is clearly written on the side of the router and has not been changed. I tell her where it is and turned to look for my coat.

She followed, trying to formulate another question to hold me back. I was getting worried now that she was close to cracking and just wanted to leave before she did anything outlandish. She complained that she's been cut off from her phone for a week, needs information, etc. I tell her to write it down, perhaps email me her questions and skedaddle out the door.

It's early days in this new phase. I can't go NC yet as we have a divorce to settle and a teenager to support. Yet this new behavior is seeking to pull me back in after the big push off of the divorce declaration. How does one stay safe and sane within this? It's really ripping me apart.

[RedPill]

My 17-year marriage is ending. I was served yesterday with divorce papers from stbxndBPDw. She told me April 27th what was coming. We're both in the house although she has been staying "at a friends' place" about half the time, and the other half she doesn't want to cross paths with me. She has accused me of affairs, putting spyware on her phone and computer, and having secret bank accounts; all of which are not true and fantastical. She destroyed my first anniversary gift to her. Before it ended she was not sleeping in the same bed with me and locking the door to our bedroom. We were in couples therapy trying to address our issues; I felt like we were making progress and even had two nights of amazing sex a few weeks before she started locking me out.

Today, the push-pull.

This morning I got up from the patio couch to go to work and she was up waiting for me. Wanted to talk. She wanted "my help" because she couldn't access her phone records. She couldn't remember her passwords. She couldn't find things she needed to find. FOR THE DIVORCE. And she wanted my help. Jesus. I said I would look into it and tried to end the discussion. She persisted, accusing me of hacking her phone, closing her out of accounts, and changing passwords. I walked away to brush my teeth.

When I came out she was ready to start it up again. "Can I ask you a question?" she asked. "Why am I so mad?" Inside, morbid me had a chuckle. I said I wasn't angry, but I was hurt, scared, and defensive and wasn't going to entertain these conversations if I was going to get attacked. She started to attack, so I walked away again, ready to leave for work.

She continued, asking me for the wifi password. The password which is clearly written on the side of the router and has not been changed. I tell her where it is and turned to look for my coat.

She followed, trying to formulate another question to hold me back. I was getting worried now that she was close to cracking and just wanted to leave before she did anything outlandish. She complained that she's been cut off from her phone for a week, needs information, etc. I tell her to write it down, perhaps email me her questions and skedaddle out the door.

It's early days in this new phase. I can't go NC yet as we have a divorce to settle and a teenager to support. Yet this new behavior is seeking to pull me back in after the big push off of the divorce declaration. How does one stay safe and sane within this? It's really ripping me apart.

[heartandwhole]

Hi RedPill,

Man, that is really tough. Living in the same house while you try to deal with a divorce, BPD, and caring for your teenager. I'm so sorry you are going through this. Staying safe and sane should be priority number one; I'm glad you brought it up. And I recognize how hard it is in this situation. It would rip me apart, too. 

Have you had any success with the communications tools on this page:

Ending Conflict

I am also a fan of the BIFF (brief, informative, friendly firm), if it becomes necessary. It's specifically written for email communication, but the principles are helpful to review when in high-conflict, emotional situations:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=134124.0

If your wife has BPD, she may be reacting to the impending separation with fear, which can trigger this kind of push-pull behavior. Do you have a good support network around you?

heartandwhole

[blueblue12]

RedPill,
Sorry to hear this. I went through a separation like that as well. Sleeping in different rooms, her staying at 'her mums' or 'with girlfriends' but later I found out that she had started a new relationship, she never told me though... .Great! I also was going through all those arguments and questions and help requirements for a million things she was making up. I have been separated now for 6 months, I had one recycle and she is still needy at different times, it is actually not healthy at all. I am now in a position where upon I want to move on. I can't see myself going back with her any longer, as sad as that sounds as at one time I couldn't live without her and put up with all her stuff, which was stupid of me. Take care and be careful, it's a rocky and hurtful road... .

[Grey Kitty]

One other suggestion for staying sane through this:

Minimize the time you spend living in the same house with her.

If you have to rent or buy your own place, that will obviously have financial consequences, but it might be worth doing anyways if you can afford it.

Also, consult a lawyer before just moving out--It could harm your ability to end up either in possession of the house, or reduce the share of its value you end up with. Again, it may be worth doing, but get a legal answer to this legal question before you act. (Good question for the Legal board here too, whether you talk to a lawyer or not!)

Do you have friends or family that can offer you a couch or guest room some of the time? Can you afford the occasional night in a motel? (Kinda like she's doing ~half time, 'tho her "friend" could well be a romantic interest, and I'm guessing you aren't ready for that even if she is!)

Whatever, having a place to go away to if being around her and either the push phase or the pull phase is too crazy making is good for self-care.

[RedPill]

Gonna go running in the hills after work but wanted to keep up with my posts so... .

Thanks for the responses. I'm reading, reading, reading to understand and avoid a recycle. A few days ago maybe, but I feel stronger today. She sent me a long text about closing credit cards and stuff with a smiling side-eye emoticon today. Stupid emoticons ruling all my feelings. I can see her rage sloughing away as she reverts to her old "familiar" behavior as if everything is fine now.

@heartandwhole: Yes, I am implementing BIFF as BIFFly as I can. I was just beginning to activate SET (Sympathy, Empathy, Truth) from the video when she launched the divorce. Almost as if she realized that I was changing my part of the dysfunctional dance and needed to flee. Right now there's more NC than SET but as the process goes on we'll have to talk in mediation and negotiation settings. I am developing my long-distance support network of family but unfortunately I have been successfully isolated from friends locally. I do have a great therapist though, and just in time.

@Grey Kitty: I'm trying to. She's been doing most of the staying away for me. Unfortunately, my finances don't allow an alternate place to stay for the moment. And as I said above, no friends locally. I'm also very frightened about my financial future; I am the main wage earner and will be responsible for childcare and spousal support. She'll get some of my pension as well. As a lawyer I consulted with said, "I'm very exposed financially." And we've been hand to mouth financially for a decade. You can't get blood from a turnip, but you also can't get an apartment with half a turnip ... .if that metaphor makes sense, which I'm doubting it does.

She very well may be seeing someone already. At this point nothing would surprise me. I'm trying to mentally prepare for that, but can you really? She already had an affair in the first year of our marriage. I would say I wish I had ended it then, but then our lovely daughter would not have been born. So there is a bright side.

Thanks again. Time to grind it out in nature.
RP

[vortex of confusion]

How big is your house RedPill?

I ask this because one of the things that you might be able to do to stay sane is set up a space for yourself. If you have an extra bedroom, make it yours. Basically, try to carve out a space for yourself within the space that you have. When ex and I were separated and trying to live in the same house, it made things a little easier for me when I moved everything of mine out of our shared room so that I could access my stuff without going into the master bedroom.

What are some things you can do to reconnect with people locally?

[RedPill]

After feeling devastatingly sad for the past few days, today I feel strangely numb. I feel disconnected to the sadness and pain I was feeling just yesterday. It seems too early For detachment ... .does this sound familiar to anyone?

Maybe it's due to her dialing back on the direct animosity. She is still erasing me from her day to day life by removing gifts, photos, and pictures from the house.

@VoC: the house is very small. One bathroom. Not many places to hide. I am making the enclosed patio "my" area. Doing my best to stay away.

RP

[blueblue12]

Take good care RedPill, seek a T and start to work in your life. I lived with my ex for a whole year while she said things like "I love you but I am not in love with you anymore" great, thanks. Meanwhile I was there in the house mostly on my own and felt terrible, a whole year! We were together married for ten years. She would go out all the time, would not talk to me while she was around, always on the phone and basically treated me like garbage, it was awful. She then decided that we should the house without any consultation, let's just do it, it was awful, I basically tried and tried to fix things... .it never got better. We sold while she was away on a long trip, I packed on my own and left. Three months later she came back full on, wanting to get back together, I was the best guy in the world, I was recycled once, it was great for a few days. Why did I decide to go along with that? Terrible, it was me wanting to be the rescuer, ridiculous really. Now I am at peace and for the first time feel that that part of my life has finished, time to move on. Take good care of yourself and your daughter... .

[RedPill]

What are some things you can do to reconnect with people locally?

Ah yes, something proactive I can do. Good point.

I am (slowly) building a support network as I let people know what is happening. It's mostly at work, but better than nothing. I have been successfully isolated from most acquaintances locally due to my stbxndBPDw's jealousy and controlling, and my acquiescence to it. I could reach out to some old friends, but it feels awkward since I let them fall off the radar long ago. I could start making new friends by joining a running group or other meet-up. I'm not ready for "singles" type stuff though.

There is (was?) one guy friend that I used to (rarely) hang out with who is the boyfriend of my stbx's best friend. So that's awkward. I haven't reached out to him due to fear of what she might say when she found out. Didn't seem worth the potential risk and blowback. Is that more of the old tapes and putting her needs ahead of mine or just being prudent in during a highly charged time?

[Grey Kitty]

I could reach out to some old friends, but it feels awkward since I let them fall off the radar long ago.

I'd recommend pushing through the awkward part and seeing if you can rekindle those old friendships.

It also is a way of reclaiming the good things in your life that you gave up for your stbx.

There is (was?) one guy friend that I used to (rarely) hang out with who is the boyfriend of my stbx's best friend.

I'd probably put that one on a back burner--you don't identify it as an important friendship which you let fall away, so the benefits don't sound compelling.

On the downside, your living-togther-while-getting-divorced situation puts you in way more contact with stbx than you want, more worrying about what she will think or do than you want, etc.

I wouldn't focus on a friendship which pushes you in that direction, at least not today.

[vortex of confusion]

@VoC: the house is very small. One bathroom. Not many places to hide. I am making the enclosed patio "my" area. Doing my best to stay away.

Even in a small house, it is doable.  I have a 3 bedroom, 1 bath with 4 kids.

I hung a clothing rod in the laundry room and moved all of my clothes to the back hallway/laundry area. I took all of the clothes that I wore on a regular basis and put them in tubs and moved them to the laundry room so that I could have access to my stuff without having to go in his room (the room we once shared). I put a little desk next to the sofa where I could put my laptop and other miscellaneous important stuff. The couch became my bed.

He wouldn't really do anything to give me space and would actually do everything he could to overrun the little bit of space that I tried to carve out for myself. Keep at it and get creative.

Find things that you can do away from the house by yourself or with your kid. Or, you can find things to do to keep you busy. When he comes over to visit the kids, I will go outside and mow the lawn. Or, I will go hide in the kitchen and clean. I find ways to be in other rooms or on the porch. If he follows me, I quietly get up and go somewhere else.

[RedPill]

StbxudBPDw chilly and silent to me in the morning, then chatty, offered food she made, and walked around in a bra and jeans in the evening. We were both at the house for a rare evening after I picked up the kid from activity and brought home. I keep wondering if a recycle attempt is heading my way.

So how do I act around her? She's been cold and nasty so I've been keeping NC, but should I be modeling respectful behavior for the kid when she's civil? I'm going to be stuck here as the divorce proceedings slowly begin, so so need to figure this out. She comes and goes, some nights out late and others gone overnight, and her mood varies daily (obviously, BPD forum). I don't want to give my daughter false hope, and I also don't want to be a jerk. I feel that the shock has stabbed over a bit and so I can be civil, but what's the healthy option?

[blueblue12]

RedPill,
I feel for you. Exact thing happened to me for an entire year! I was the guy walking on eggshells at all times. I tried and tried. She did exactly the same, cold and detached, talked to the world on the phone and text but not to me and would walk around the house naked sometimes! Go figure. My T said once "its like look at me, I am gorgeous but you can't have me!" I felt that. It's hard, all I can say is don't give her ammunition to treat you even worse, start ignoring it and go on with your life, as in my case it got worse and worse. And there was nothing I could do. I got the recycle after a three month break when I went NC and her new relationship went down. Not good.

[RedPill]

Hi all,

The awkward living conditions continue. No major developments but I feel the need to let out some of my frustrations, feelings, and experiences. My stbxudBPDw and I are mutually trying to avoid each other by staying away when the other is in the house, which is actually not too hard due to our competing schedules. I'm making myself as present and available as I can for my daughter's sake when she is home. I achnowledge my stbxudBPDw when we pass each other but that's about it. I'm trying to keep business discussions to text or email. She likes to talk about stuff, which can quickly deteriorate into blaming and criticism if I don't walk away.

As tensions ease slightly the battle against recycling thoughts is being fought in my mind. I know I can't fix her and that my fantasy of our marriage being "saved" through therapy, counseling, hard work, and love was unrealistic, but the desire for a easy return to "normalcy" pulls hard. Even the dysfunctional normalcy. I'm still grieving the loss of my fantasy family and how I imagined it would go. I'm frightened for my financial future: she's sitting on a large inheritance while I have no personal savings, yet I will owe her spousal, child, and pension support. We always barely scraped by together but separate I feel very badly positioned. I hope the desire of the court to maintain a similar standard of living will apply to both of us and not just her.

I'm still struggling with how to manage our divorce proceedings while living in the same space and trying to maintain LC. Eventually somebody's moving out (perhaps both if neither can buy the other out of the house but more likely me) but I'm unwilling to leave my daughter alone there. I'm feeling stuck, stuck, stuck.

My circle of support is slowly growing, which helps me feel less alone. I'm seeing a great therapist. My family is behind me. My daughter needs her Father whole and healed. I'm looking forward to a future where I feel strong, confident, and happy.
--
RP

[joeramabeme]

Hi RedPill

Your post hits home for me; I identify with many of the crazy-making behaviors that you detail here.  The locking of doors really hurt as it implied to me the deepest lack of trust from her and she was my rock, the person I had never had more trust of.   

You asked how to stay sane.  Thinking back to when this happened to me and what advice I would have given my then-self as of today; it would be trust your gut feelings.  The back and forth and gaslighting absolutely messed with my head.  Knowing I was right and she kept telling me I was wrong and implicitly inferring I was doing things that I hadn't done and also doing the things she asked me to do but then her claiming she did not ask ripped me apart at the time when I simply wanted her and I to be happily ever after.

You need this board and anyone else that will listen and validate that which is legitimate.  I had moments when I could validate myself, those moments got me through the essentials of divorce but there were a lot of deep waffling moments when I wondered if I was messed up beyond repair and she was sane and the divorce was my fault.  I also found taking long walks to be very therapeutic.  It was a time when I could just move in the moment and let the thoughts pass by along with the sidewalk I was walking down.

Hang in and keep talking... .

[MovingOn23]

RedPill, the first feeling I have when reading your thread is envy. My BPDw and I have been in a dysfunctional recycling pattern for 6 months - if she were detached and determined to follow through with the divorce, I think that I'd ultimately feel relieved.

I guess my only advice is to not make any quick or casual decisions if a recycling "opportunity" presents itself. I wish I hadn't recycled when I did, and I'm still working up the courage and determination to make the break for good.

[RedPill]

What are some things you can do to reconnect with people locally?

There is one guy friend that I used to hang out with who is the boyfriend of my stbxuBPDw's best friend. So that's awkward. I haven't reached out to him due to fear of what she might say when she found out. Didn't seem worth the potential risk and blowback. Is that more of the old tapes and putting her needs ahead of mine or just being prudent in during a highly charged time?

After sitting on this for a while I am revisiting contacting one of the only guy friends I had in the area to revive the friendship. See above: he's also boyfriend of stbxuBPDw's friend.  Here's the message for him: what do you think?

Dear [guy friend],
I'm sure you've heard by now that [pwBPD] and I are splitting up. I am sorry for not reaching out earlier due to the complication of our mutual friendships. Regardless of what happens going forward, I would like to tell you that I miss your friendship and apologize for any awkwardness. You and [girlfriend] have been a wonderful and meaningful part of my life and I am sorry that this situation has changed that. Thank you for everything. I'm still here if you wish to respond, but I understand whatever happens.
My very best,
[RP]

[Harley Quinn]

Hi RedPill,

Good on you for reaching out to this friend.  I think your message is really open and genuine.  You can't say fairer than that.  I hope the friend is receptive.

Love and light x 

[once removed]

Here's the message for him: what do you think?

i think its a good note for hopefully affecting the best possible outcome.