Well here we go again...

[GuySmiley]

I've just spent the day with my married ndBPD - first time I've seen her since last year.

What a day. What a wonderful day. Walking, talking, holding hands, cuddling etc. Intense feelings. Feeling like I'm going to burst. Feels right. But holding back. Know she's BPD. Hold back. Hold back something for yourself. Don't lose yourself again. Feels right. Don't do it. Don't fall again.

She loves me. She wants me. She wants to be with me, if only it wasn't for her pesky husband. She doesn't want to leave him, but she wants to be with me more than anything. It's all a load of b*llocks isn't it.

But it feels so good. So complete. It's all there.

And you know what, I believe her. Or part of me does. She's so sincere. She says it's not just the rush of an illicit relationship, she genuinely loves me. Always has done. And I believe her. I always knew she did. Thats why I never let go. That special connection. That intimate spark. Her words. So genuine. And I don't believe her, because she's a liar.

It's all 'live in the moment' and it's true right now for her. And right there and then she meant it. And when I got home she texted me telling me she loves me. And I believe her. And I don't believe her.

But I don't know what to believe. Because I'm so clued up on BPD now, but she's so sincere.

But there's no future in it. She won't leave her husband because of their kid. And I could never take her back because of all the hurt and damage she's done over the years - I'd never be able to look my friends or family in the eye again.

Does she love me? For today, yes. Do I love her? Hand on my heart I can honestly say I do - codependency? Maybe. Possibly. But right now I honestly feel genuine love. Or is it?

But friends and family aside I couldn't take her back simply because I wanted to marry her and have kids together and she had that with another man and I ended up with nothing. And only now after all of that she wants to be with me.

It's the 20th year anniversary of the night we met this Saturday. She brought it up. She remembered. That surprised me.

I do love her. And I want to be with her more than anything. But I can't. I can't let myself fall again.

It's horrible. But I'm armed. Thanks to this forum and other resources I didn't have 18 months ago.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey GuySmiley, One swallow doesn't make a Spring, and one day doesn't make for a healthy r/s, which takes time to unfold.  Plus it seems disingenuous for her to profess her love for you while married to someone else.  On some level you already know that something doesn't add up.     Forewarned is forearmed, and maybe you don't need to go down this road again? 

LuckyJim

[roberto516]

You've been no contact, and through a lot more than I have been in terms of relationship length. All I know is that when she tried to recycle me I knew what it was. I even shared here about it. And I fought it off once. Then I got brought back in. Even though I knew better.

I don't know what you're exactly thinking. But I thought I had weathered it, and could keep in communication as her "emotional support" during her depression. Boy was I wrong. Just be cautious. Please don't throw away so much. Even though you love her just be careful. And please share here if you start to have differing thoughts.

Telling on myself here would have saved me a lot of heartache. Instead I left the site and ignored what I knew would happen. A recycle and discard. So I'm glad you came here to share about it.

[doy]

it is like , you know everything points right and your feet go left and now you are there: floating in space.
good that you wrote,  you try to at least keep a toe on the ground.
to me it sounds you are totally hooked and i get a really choked feeling by it . because i know what you are feeling and how unsafe this BPD place is. like being in love isn't hard enough as it is, this is like playing russian roulette with your heart. only then with five bullets and one hole empty.

i am in the exact same situation but opposite sexes ... .i am madly in love with a 16 year married BPD man and he doesn't want to leave his wife because of their kid . and his financial dependancy. so he says.
we are on 4,5 weeks NC after  6 months very intense relationship .
i am looking straight into my near future if i read your story and it simultaneously fills me with hope and fear . i find that hard to admit but promised myself to face every feeling. but i totally get every emotion you are going through.
realize you are playing with fire you were before and ffwd to the agony you went through afterwards.
it is more than likely this will repeat.
stay close to friends and family and keep sharing with us.

[RomanticFool]

GuySmiley,

She doesn't know what love is. Love requires empathy and she is stuck in the emotional development stage of a 3 year old. What she does know though is that she wants validation from you because she is probably bored at home and feeling empty. Hope that clears up any confusion :-)

As you point out in your post, once we are aware of the malady it's all over. We can no longer go on in ignorance and feel comfortable about it.

To that end I had a phone conversation with my exBPD today. Bearing in mind she made first contact and in my flurry of feverish phone calls made on Tuesday (which went unanswered) I said she could ring me if she wanted to talk. So of course when I picked up the phone I got a very cold, 'Hello? You wanted to talk to me.' In an almost deliberately provocative way I started telling her the reason I walked away was due to the abuse she has been dishing out. I named her disappearances, her distancing techniques, her silent treatment and asked her how she would feel if she was in my shoes. She said, 'I don't know but I don't want a relationship with somebody who criticises me.' That was the end of the conversation.

As Skip said, everytime we are recycled, we never go back to the beginning. We are a few stages further on and my exBPD has nothing but contempt for me. Mainly because I am challenging her with every communication. I can see all too clearly now how childlike her emotional life is and it frankly just seems boring. Now that the illusion has been shattered, the only reason to go back now would be for sex. Is a shag really worth all this?

[Icefog]

This isn't about you. This is about her arrested development and I agree with the post regarding her feeling bored, lonely and empty. That's likely what it's about. Reengage at your peril. If you do at least you're informed. Like the saying goes "i've seen and done better but followed worse". Healthy well adjusted individuals don't engage in the behavior like she is engaging in. Imagine the mess you're getting yourself into... .play it through in your mind to the end result. Where do you see this going... .it's likely not a "happily ever after scenario". What about the husband and child? Where do you land with that? Chances are she's doing the same to them as she did to you years ago. Perhaps you could recommend her for treatment for BPD and leave it at that? Sounds messy. Having stated this I can empathize how hard it must be wanting her so badly... .I struggle with that daily knowing it cannot happen. I fantasize about getting back together and that great love bombing feeling and how attracted I am to her and how it would be great and blah blah blah... .it's a delusion! I had the same experience as RF. I named her behavior to her and that was the last I heard from her. She was very resistant and in fact believes there is nothing wrong with her behavior despite years of it being brought to her attention and years of many failed relationships(victims are both friends, family and partners and children). These personality traits do not have a shelf life so what would make you believe that her behavior has changed and it will be different? Like the other saying goes "Love is blind... .also deaf and dumb at times".       

[40days_in_desert]

For those of you that are/were involved with a married BP, remember this phrase every time you ponder the idea or dream about them leaving their spouse to be with you - "What you do for me, you will also do to me." That's what I thought many times about telling the guy that my BP wife left me for after 15 years of marriage and five kids. The man that she had been communicating with for a year and a half, maybe longer for all I know. Along with two other men (that I know of). Look at it as a bullet dodged that they did not leave their spouse for you.

[GuySmiley]

Well that was a night of no sleep whatsoever.

I just don't get it. Why say the things she says, why tell me that she loves me and sound so sincere and honest but I know it's a lie? Maybe not a lie, maybe she does love me - maybe she genuinely did love me all these years like I felt inside she did. Of course not. To think she feels the same way I feel about her is naive, I know that now.

But it was all so sincere. It was honest. It was like it was when we were 21. She meant it. She was happy and sparkly and vibrant.

If this was anyone else on these boards posting this I'd tell them to run a mile. I've done so in the past.

But when she tells me she wishes it was me she married and she regrets cheating all those years ago and she looks at me with love and sadness and regret... .

It's tying me in knots. I don't want to be without her, but I know I'll never be with her. I'll never have the woman or the family I want. I don't want to grow old alone, but I don't want anyone but her.

[RomanticFool]

GuySmiley that is how I have felt for the past 14 years but we are hankering after ghosts. They are not real because they are not available. As for love. Do you think a 3 year old child understands the complexities of love? They just have a primal need for security and to be adored by their parent. That's what you are to her, somebody who provides adoration to fill her emptiness. She does not think about what she can give you. It's all about who she should have married, not how she could have made you happy. She is a blood sucking vampire who has no regard for your well being.

After 6 weeks of no contact my exBPD hung up on me yesterday after initiating contact. That is how children behave. She is one foot in one foot out constantly. She doesn't give me anything becausr she thinks that's my job. She wants me to tell her I love her, I miss her and how amazing she is. I won't because she is a 3 year old in a woman's body. So she will go elsewhere. That is a BPD in a nutshell. Find a real woman to love. Not a child.

[GuySmiley]

She has an older sister whose dating an older married man who keeps giving her the push/pull treatment. Sounds like a casebook example of what's going on with so many others here (she may well be on these boards, who knows? Any ladies here from London?)

Aaaaanyway - she tells me how this man is messing her sister about and ruining her mental state. And she can't see that's exactly what she's doing to me.

But she loves me

[doy]

i do think she loves you IN THE WAY SHE IS CAPABLE of. she is just hopping back and forth in her mind, nothing really sticks. i do not think she is by definition a liar but she will change her mind , turn her back , again , and again , and again ... .
you have the chance to decline her now , what makes the pain much less.
take control  ... .i would say run forest

[GuySmiley]

Just spoke to her on the phone. Told her I can't go on with this as it's tearing me apart. Told her I want us to be the ones we spend our lives with, be the ones who hold each other hand and make each other smile. Be the ones to grow old with.

She said she can't give me that. says she does love me and wants to be with me but can't. She was crying.

Got angry with her. Didn't shout. Just angry that she wanted her cake and eat it too. Said she didn't. Swore she loves me. Said all she thinks about is me. Said she can't leave because of her kid. I understand that. Also think it's a useful prop to pull out when she needs it.

I believe her. I believe she loves me. I hate the fact that she was so selfish to get back in touch 4 years ago when there was no possible way forward.

I hate this. I hate that I'll never be able to love her again. It hurts so f*cking much.

[Dutched]

She said she can't give me that. says she does love me and wants to be with me but can't. She was crying.

I believe her. I believe she loves me. I hate the fact that she was so selfish to get back in touch 4 years ago when there was no possible way forward.

something like?

I love you – I hate you  /  Hold me tight – but don’t touch me  / leave me alone – but be there for me

[GuySmiley]

something like?

I love you – I hate you  /  Hold me tight – but don’t touch me  / leave me alone – but be there for me

Not really, more like... .

"I love you/ Hold me tight/ I want to be with you/ I can't stop thinking about you."

"OK, well it'll be tough, but I want all those things too."

"Well I can't give you that. But I love you/ Hold me tight/ I want to be with you/ I can't stop thinking about you."

[Dutched]

Well that was a night of no sleep whatsoever.

But it was all so sincere. It was honest. It was like it was when we were 21. She meant it. She was happy and sparkly and vibrant.

If this was anyone else on these boards posting this I'd tell them to run a mile. I've done so in the past.

But when she tells me she wishes it was me she married and she regrets cheating all those years ago and she looks at me with love and sadness and regret... .

It is sincere love in a moment, to feel good in their rollercoaster of emotions
It is sincere regret, it is.

One day you crossed the path of a mature kid.
Still self centred exploring the world
Still relying on others to feel whole, to feel good, to explore, to be challenged, to be soothed.
Copied even all your interests… your values… copied…  

And there was you, in fact her stand in parent…   To being loved, fill up that emptiness again, that need, that joy.
Failed however, as every one will, as no one will be able to do for her

Alice in Wonderland:
Alice to White Rabbit: How long is forever?
White Rabbit: Sometimes just one second.

[RedPill]

Alice in Wonderland:
Alice to White Rabbit: How long is forever?
White Rabbit: Sometimes just one second.

First time I've seen this. Wow.

[Dutched]

First time I've seen this. Wow.

Seemingly off topic  the story of Alice in Wonderland

It are the steps, the journey, of a child growing up until adolescence.
It is a kind of romantic quest for her identity and growth, relying on people, understanding rules, games people play authority, disappointment and fear.
Reading the book /watching the movie from this perspective there is a lot very interesting to see.

Growth we all went through.
Of course also the ex went trough, but was stuck somewhere…   

‘I could tell you my adventures–beginning from this morning,’ said Alice a little timidly,
‘but it’s no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then.’

A different person…
I love you – I hate you  /  Hold me tight – but don’t touch me  / leave me alone – but be there for me

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Guysmiley-
I'm sorry you're hurting so much.  Here's my take as a woman.  She needs you to adore her because her husband has been devastated by her behavior and he sees her and knows her for what and who she really is.   It is likely her husband is struggling just to breathe.  In your eyes, she will always be that lovely vision of a 21-year old, she will never age.   That's just how it is with lovers from our past.  She knows that.  What YOU need to know is that she is NO fantasy.  She is no dream girl.  Living with a BPD person, mine happened to be a beautiful, charming man who nearly emptied my soul, is an impossible nightmare.  No matter how many ways you twist yourself. 

Count yourself fortunate.  She spared you a lifetime of pain by breaking your young heart; except you didn't know it... .subconsciously you know it now.  Please turn your back on her.  She is counting on the fact that you have forgiven that youthful "mistake".  It was no mistake, it is in her fabric.  Then thank yourself and find a truly kind girl with a beautiful heart.

If you don't trust yourself right now because you're vulnerable, then please trust those of us who were heart and soul in these relationships... .and are struggling to recover from the experience.

[GuySmiley]

This is killing me.

Thai you everyone whose given advice - I appreciate it.

I know she's no good. I know it's neither realistic nor practical to think of a future with her. I know an affair can go nowhere but a few snatched hours of fun then unbelievable heartache and pain. I know all of that.

But the pain and the thought of her no longer being in my life is unbelievable. It would like be losing a limb. I cannot let her go. I look at her and I just see everything I want right there.

The fact I will never grow old with her, never be her husband, never have a family with her and that she has that with another man. I hate it. It kills me. I hate it. I have nothing. I wanted her. I wanted just to be with her. She tells me she regrets her mistakes but can't do anything about it. I wanted a life with her. It all I ever wanted.

20 years ago tonight I met her. She's going out with her family and friends and then back to their home. I have nothing but an empty lonely life that longs for her and the life together we planned all those years ago.

It's dramatic but I just want to die.

[RomanticFool]

GuySmiley,

Read my posts, especially the one headed The Final Conflict. After 14 years I have somehow found the strength to walk away, to tell her to leave me alone and to mean it. Just as you have discovered, there is nothing in these relationships for us but pain. I live in London and my exBPD lives over 100 miles away. In truth I have been doing all the chasing. As soon as I stopped and pulled out, the relationship was effectively over. GEMSFOREYES has stated what is going on perfectly. My borderline just wants unconditional adoration from me because her husband sees her for who she is. For a long time I didn't care how screwed up she is because I was prepared to love her unconditionally until she sapped my emotional well dry and then turned her back on me, again and again and again.

I managed NC for 5 weeks and it was enough to get the strength to see that this is emotional groundhog day. Nothing will ever change. In her message to me (interesting that the longest message I've ever had was when I walked away) she tells me that 'there is hurt in the silence' but she never told me that she misses me or she loves me or she wants me because she doesn't. She just wants me to be there to adore her. This was a woman who a few years ago begged me to call her in America because she was missing me so much. Now we are later in the cycle and she has moved the goalposts.

When she makes contact again - and she will - if I went for the recycle we would go back to the honeymoon stage for a while and then the lovebombing would all start again. But I am not going to let that happen because all roads lead me right back to where I was - agony, loneliness, despair, isolation and suicidal ideation. Turn your back on this woman now before she kills you. My borderline took me to the brink of despair where I started having suicidal thoughts because I wanted her so much. I told her that and you know what she said? 'Stop lying.'

I cannot tell you the freedom and strength I feel simply by taking control back of my emotional life. By telling her in my reply that she was not a 'complicated' person as she had described herself, but predictable and in keeping with a borderline, it took all of her power away. She resists any kind of diagnosis around this because her narcissism won't allow it. She wants to tell herself that she is special and different instead of the coldblooded psychotic (ie lack of empathy) that she actually is. I no longer feel sorry for her. I feel sorry for her husband. That poor fu*ker has had 3 kids with her and a lifetime of this boll*cks. Get out now. The sooner you leave, the sooner you will meet someone who will love you back the way you deserve.

RIGHT NOW YOU FEEL THAT THIS WOMAN IS THE ONLY PERSON ON THIS EARTH WHO YOU CAN BE WITH. That is just your abandonment complex talking. She is actually a person on this earth THAT YOU ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT BE WITH. The world is full of amazing women. You will find somebody even more amazing than her and wonder what the hell you were doing wasting 20 years of your life on a psychotic child. Do it sooner rather than later before you sink any lower.

[blueblue12]

Guy Smiley,
Romantic Fool just gave you the best advice possible. I am also going through a change whereupon I feel freedom coming my way. I was recycled once and I do not want to go through that again, it was awful. At the end of the day I am more inclined now to think that she really is not worth it any longer. Like your I was desperate to see her, I was prepared to forgive everything that she did to me, I was completely blinded by her. It was really stupid of me. Now I am on LC as I do reply late to her occasional texts but in a controlled way. She writes every few days that she misses me, well great, but what can I do with that? Nothing really.

Here are some lyrics from a rock tune I recently heard that make a lot of sense:

WASTING TIME
What was once so fine,
has been broken and burned
So I wait here in the dark,
for the light to return
Blinded, I was blinded 'til I knew
only the good love survives
Blinded, 'til I understood how
only the good love survives
Only the good love survives
but you and I were wasting time
We were only wasting time

Guy Smiley take care of yourself first. Talk to a T and start to detach from what is and always will be a painful road... .