The final conflict

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I said the end was coming and here it us. It is raw and painful so please be gentle with me. It was the most magnanimous I could be at this painful time.

ExBPD:
There is so much conflict in me. On one hand my mental health has been much better over the last few weeks because I have not been stressing over what I can do against what you expect and yet there is so much hurt attached to the silence that I can't help but feel guilty and wonder how you are - hence the contact. I just can no longer do what you need - My husband watches me like a hawk and my son is always around with batting ears so I can't communication as you would wish - I'm beginning to think I would be better off on my own where my mental health is not reliant on other people. I am a complicated person not a label and I'm tired of being told I have some disorder or the other because you need to rationalise my behaviour. Your lifestyle is  far better suited to this double life - mine isn't at present and until I change it will only get harder.

Me:
What makes you think I'm suited to a double life? I just wanted you. I dont want to be cheating either. Remember you contacted me 6 months into my marriage. I didn't invite that but I let you in from before when we met on the internet and I was single and met you in good faith but you were actually married. At every juncture you have been as into this as me so don't pretend I am the driving force behind it. I have chased you when you were running away because I didn't understand your personality and now I do. So if you don't want me in your life then stay away. I sensed you were distancing yourself and I walked away because the pain of this love was killing me. If you loved me like I love you we could have figured out a way to be together. The truth is, after 14 years of blowing hot and cold you are once again pushing me away.

In your communication you make no mention of how hard it has been for me because you are not interested in my emotions. You have effectively used me to relieve times of boredom. I have been in deep love with you for years and you have pushed me to the brink of despair time and again. I kept coming back because I adore you. But this is it. I am not going to be used whenever it suits you. Please stay away from me and give me a chance to heal.

[RomanticFool]

I said the end was coming and here it us. It is raw and painful so please be gentle with me. It was the most magnanimous I could be at this painful time.

ExBPD:
There is so much conflict in me. On one hand my mental health has been much better over the last few weeks because I have not been stressing over what I can do against what you expect and yet there is so much hurt attached to the silence that I can't help but feel guilty and wonder how you are - hence the contact. I just can no longer do what you need - My husband watches me like a hawk and my son is always around with batting ears so I can't communication as you would wish - I'm beginning to think I would be better off on my own where my mental health is not reliant on other people. I am a complicated person not a label and I'm tired of being told I have some disorder or the other because you need to rationalise my behaviour. Your lifestyle is  far better suited to this double life - mine isn't at present and until I change it will only get harder.

Me:
What makes you think I'm suited to a double life? I just wanted you. I dont want to be cheating either. Remember you contacted me 6 months into my marriage. I didn't invite that but I let you in from before when we met on the internet and I was single and met you in good faith but you were actually married. At every juncture you have been as into this as me so don't pretend I am the driving force behind it. I have chased you when you were running away because I didn't understand your personality and now I do. So if you don't want me in your life then stay away. I sensed you were distancing yourself and I walked away because the pain of this love was killing me. If you loved me like I love you we could have figured out a way to be together. The truth is, after 14 years of blowing hot and cold you are once again pushing me away.

In your communication you make no mention of how hard it has been for me because you are not interested in my emotions. You have effectively used me to relieve times of boredom. I have been in deep love with you for years and you have pushed me to the brink of despair time and again. I kept coming back because I adore you. But this is it. I am not going to be used whenever it suits you. Please stay away from me and give me a chance to heal.

[GuySmiley]

Hmm ... .sounds familiar.

[RomanticFool]

Afraid my pain got the better if me and I got spiteful:

One final word. To elevate your behaviour to the level of complicated in some unfathomable and profound way is inaccurate. It is entirely predictable and commensurate with Borderline Personality Disorder. Namely: push/pull cycle, inner emptiness, fear of abandonment, fear of 'engulfment,' anger, splitting, silent treatment, suicidal ideation toxic shame, guilt and lack of empathy. If you could see the truth and get the help you need, you wouldn't be pushing everybody in your life away all the time. You will end up alone if you do not seek treatment. I say that out of love for you. I think I have probably suffered the most at your hands out of anybody in your life because I have been treated as if I am.completely unimportant to you. So I feel I have the right, not to mention the insight, to urge you to seek treatment and live a more  fulfilling life.

[roberto516]

Afraid my pain got the better if me and I got spiteful:

One final word. To elevate your behaviour to the level of complicated in some unfathomable and profound way is inaccurate. It is entirely predictable and commensurate with Borderline Personality Disorder. Namely: push/pull cycle, inner emptiness, fear of abandonment, fear of 'engulfment,' anger, splitting, silent treatment, suicidal ideation toxic shame, guilt and lack of empathy. If you could see the truth and get the help you need, you wouldn't be pushing everybody in your life away all the time. You will end up alone if you do not seek treatment. I say that out of love for you. I think I have probably suffered the most at your hands out of anybody in your life because I have been treated as if I am.completely unimportant to you. So I feel I have the right, not to mention the insight, to urge you to seek treatment and live a more  fulfilling life.

Wow I said almost the exact same thing at one point. It doesn't end well. We can't challenge someone with a personality disorder like that. I explained the abandonment from the past relationship, childhood, etc. Even related it to me and that's why I see it so clear in her. Explained how I fought through those abandonment fears early in our relationship to not repeat the same pattern. Her response, "I don't have time to entertain your dumb theories."

The analogy I like to make is a BPD looks at a white door and goes "It's red!" Everyone tells them it's white, and they either dig in stronger, find someone who will agree that the door is red, or dismiss the "white door" people as fools and evil people for trying to force them to see it that way.

Only when the BPD looks at that door and goes "Hm... .maybe it is white." do they ever have a chance of changing. And I honestly said those same exact things out of love, and as a way to protect future people. But she won't see it. Too far ingrained in her. And her therapist validates her victim status. And as long as she finds another source she will never have to look at herself. Just my two cents.

I'm sorry for the pain. I find that NC is the only way. Or else I fall down the slope. I'm too weak to stand up to it. I'm glad you are posting non stop though. It's helpful.

Maybe a suggestion? The next thing you want to text to her (I know I wouldn't stop if I were you) you can post it here first?

[Skip]

Afraid my pain got the better if me and I got spiteful... .

Is this the first time you had this type of exchange (spiteful)?

[RomanticFool]

Not going to lie to you Roberto, I feel better for saying it. The woman has ripped my heart out and treated me with utter contempt and I don't feel like pulling my punches anymore. The gloves are off. I hope she is so affronted by it, (which I am sure she will be as she has queen and witch characteristics at times as well as waif and hermit) that she leaves me the hell alone forever. I only wish I'd been so blunt with her 14 years ago when I travelled 100 miles to meet her when I was a single man and she lied about not being married. So screw her feelings for now, just as she has screwed mine for over a decade.

If you read in her message to me all she can talk about regarding the silence is how it makes her feel. I was told on here that the one thing a BPD hates more than anything is losing the attachment. I could never go for longer than a day without contacting her before because I was too desperate, but now I am giving her a taste of her own medicine and she lapses into self pity. Fu*k her! I hope she feels a fraction of the agony she has put me through then it might encourage her to seek help. People only ever get help when things are intolerably painful. As for not confronting her about the truth of her mental illness, due to the pain she has inflicted on me, I think I have the right to hold the mirror up to her. If these people got help fewer lives would be destroyed.

I have accepted my part in this sorry affair. I opened the door to her and ignored the risks to my marriage. I deserve to suffer too and by God I have at this woman's hands. However, I was a single man when we met and went to meet her in good faith because I saw her on webcam, while she was sitting next to her husband, which she neglected to mention, and I fell for a beautiful woman who said she liked me. How cynical is that? Had she been honest back then none of this would ever have happened. So as far as I am concerned she deserves everything she gets. In fact, I see it as my duty to tell her the nature of her malady and then her haughty arrogance, about being some mysterious femme fatale, will be challenged and consigned to the garbage can of bullsh*t . Not one ounce of empathy in that email. No mention of love or the beauty of what we shared together. Just an empty vessel of vacuity who has no idea what she wants or is what she is doing. Blaming everybody else for her mental health issues and threatening to go and live on her own. Not even her son gets a duty of care from his mother. For the first time in 14 years I feel sorry for her husband.

I make no apologies for my anger. I have been a total sap for 14 years, living off the crumbs of this woman's fractured persona looking for love and getting agony for my troubles. I have wised up. I have awoken. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Romantic Fool no more.

[RomanticFool]

No skip. I've been spiteful to her lots of times and she has returned it in spades. I used to lash out when she gave me the silent treatment, so I am not used to her replying. It is the first time she has tried to justify her abuse of me by claiming to be 'complicated' and it incensed me. If she had expressed one iota of even affection for me, let alone love, I'd have been less annoyed.

[roberto516]

I wholeheartedly agree Romantic Fool. I hate mine too. I hate the silent treatment. The deep down knowledge that I'll come begging. The ability to detach from someone who loved with my whole heart. Trust me I get it. I'm a human being like you. Someone who cared, loved, sacrificed. And this is what happens? I too felt good lashing out. Which she then spun onto me as being verbally abusive. And she's right. I probably was. But I didn't wake up one day and do it. It was a long time coming when I saw how little she thought of me as a human being. Then the guilt came. And then the anger again. I support the anger. It reinforces what we are not to do anymore. And that is reach out.

They are sorry excuses for human beings. I know all the empathy, and how they are stuck as emotional children. I get it all. But you know? I don't care right now. All day I have been cursing my ex aloud wishing some really bad things to happen to her.

Keep sharing. I know this opened up a can of worms. It's what they do. It's what they will always do. I'm struggling like you to stay away.

Just a word to the wise. In a day or two when the anger leaves you the longing might come back. It has for me. Just remember to share here if it does.

And I can't help but see you in me. I feel like there's a real struggle to finally just "accept" that it's over. After all I've been through. If she came begging one day it would be really hard. As stupid as it is. As logical as it is that it would never work. I need to accept it's never ever going to come back and be like it was. I'm not putting words in your mouth. Just using empathy and wondering if it's something you have struggled with too.

[RomanticFool]

I agree with everything you said Roberto and I am truly sorry for your pain. The longing in me has never disappeared. It is there constantly but thanks to this site and my own experience with addiction recovery, I know what I have to do to get well. What this site has done, and the learned people on it, is planted in my brain the nature of my own malady and the danger of the seductive substance. For that is what she is, a seductive substance. When I get in that terrible yearning for her sexually, I know it is just my addict head, because my rational mind abhors this woman and her selfish psychotic behaviour. She complains about her husband watching her like a hawk but I can only imagine the hell she has put him through. He has had 3 kids with her and she cheats on him and lies to him for his trouble. I would never have stayed with a woman like that. In fact, the guilt I feel in this situation concerns him. Because I am a recognisable person he found out about me when we had our first go round and he must have been devastated. So my heartfelt apologies and empathy go out to him.

I don't even hate my exBPD. I just pity her for the delusional and lonely existence she is destined to continue whilst trying to work out the big puzzle in her head about her own emotions and others' behaviour towards her. I consider I have given her help by telling her about BPD. If everybody is too frightened of upsetting these people to tell them the truth then what chance do they ever have of getting help? I know it is in the nature of pwBPD to have no acceptance over their condition but by telling her so clearly the nature of the disorder at least she has a chance to help herself, however unlikely that eventuality may be.

[Skip]

  Hey guys, we're just pilling on at this point. We don't want to start thinking "these people". We're better than that. Stay focused on the person and the bad act. Don't let it become class warfare in your mind. You will heal better and faster. 

  RomanticFool, if you truly think she has borderline traits, than all you accomplish with spite and invalidation is to hurt her and push her away. This is true for all partners and especially true for pwBPD. Doing this because you want her to be more loving and attentive is like throwing gas on a fire to put it out. Not that it matters now, but its a good thing going forward and dealing with people.

So why do you think this is the final blow if you both have been down this path before? 

[RomanticFool]

Skip, I don't care about validating her or how she feels. I don't see it as my job or duty to be fair to people with BPD. I am not a psychiatrist or a counsellor. I just had the misfortune to get entangled with one. By these people, I mean people with no empathy ie sociopaths, psychopaths and BPDs.

She basically told me to fu*k off today so I don't think we will be continuing with the dance of agony. Her assertion that she needs to be on her own and not beholden to others for her mental health was a dig at me, her husband, her kids and everybody else who loves her but she blames for the way she feels.

Tell me again why I should care about her pain?

[Skip]

Tell me again why I should care about her pain?

Didn't say this. I said you are doing self defeating things. You don't need to stop. It's up to you.

She basically told me to fu*k off today

It looks like she said that she is conflicted (between serving her husband and serving you).

She said she is worried that the affair will be discovered. Her husbands is suspicious. Her son is watching her.

She said you are asking for more time and attention at a time when giving to you is increasingly risky for her.

She said she contacted you because she feels guilty and she knows that silence hurts you.

Any validity in this?

[RomanticFool]

First of all, if she feels any conflict over serving me or her husband, she has had 14 years to figure it out. There is no conflict. She has made it perfectly clear to me time and again that she is never leaving her marriage. Where is the conflict?

I don't believe that her husband found out about us. She told me that when she changed her phone he downloaded text messages between us. Then she told me not to worry as he doesn't know it is me. I don't believe her. If you download text messages the other person's number must come up. I think he downloaded text messages between her and somebody else because if that was me, I know I'd ring those numbers. Why is he spying on her phone? She texted me so rarely I don't think that would have made him suspicious. So it is not unreasonable from what I have read to assume that a BPD woman had other intrigues.

From what she has told me, her husband has been watching her like a hawk for 14 years. So I'm afraid I take that with a pinch of salt. But let's give her the benefit of the doubt. Let's assume that he did find out about us and that she is being careful. Why hasn't he made threats to expose our affair? According to her, he knows who I am from first time around. If he discovered she is having an affair, I would be prime suspect. Why? Because she told him she was coming to my home town to see me as a friend when she first made contact with me again. That is what she told me. So why has he not at least sent me an email warning me off? He is a computer expert who apparently can hack her emails. Therefore it is reasonable to assume he could find out my email address. She told me he was furious when he downloaded the phone messages. Deduction? Either the messages were from someone else. Or there were no messages and she is lying as a distancing technique.

I have always asked for more time and attention. This is nothing new. There is always some crisis or other in her life. In the past she has disappeared on several occasions for the following reasons: Got sectioned (this was many years ago), Accused me of having an affair (4 day silence and phone blocking), went away with her daughter for 3 days (no texts at all), Her husband found out about us (6 day absence), Went to her safe place (3 day absence) etc etc etc. I think she has distanced herself because either she has met somebody else or she wanted to slow things down with me. There was no mention in that email of missing me. Just the pain of silence. In fact she said she feels better mentally for the five week break from my texts. But she misses the contact. Push/pull push/pull push/pull

Here is what she said about the silence:

I have not been stressing over what I can do against what you expect and yet there is so much hurt attached to the silence that I can't help but feel guilty and wonder how you are - hence the contact

She didn't say she feels guilty because the silence hurts me. Read it again. 'So much hurt attached to the silence' - she means for her. The worst thing you can do is break contact with a BPD. She is hurting over the silence. She has never given a sh*t about how I feel. Also, from what I have read, a pwBPD has a default setting of toxic shame and guilt. I am not convinced she feels guilty about hurting me. Maybe I should clarify this detail with her. Oh guess what? She won't reply.

I don't understand why, after encouraging me to break off with her, you want me to see things from her point of view. If you place doubt in my mind, I am very liable to contact her again and apologise for being so harsh. At which point I am likely to be recycled. I don't get your strategy here with me at all. You told me last night how dangerous this situation is and I'm at a crossroads and now you want me to read good intentions into her 'fu*ck you' email. Why? What good would it do if I do feel she has good intentions? All I'll do is contact her again and end up where I was. I thought the encouragement on here was not to hold sway by what a pwBPD says but by how they behave. I am confused.

[roberto516]

Romantic Fool you sound very angry. Which is fine. I can only offer you my experiences and learnings. I think the ultimate goal is to go from both extremes. The first being I hate them, and everything about them. Sometimes that shifts to "I hate myself, and I can't believe this, that, and the third" I did both of those today. And I'll probably do both tomorrow.

The final phase is somewhere along the middle. Where one realizes that there was a part they played, and a part I played. I'm not there yet. I won't be for a very long time. And I can't stop breaking NC like a moron. I hear triggers all day reminding me of her.

But anyway. You don't have to reach that final stage yet. It takes time. I was in a relationship like this before. And I have come to peace with that one. But it took a long time. A lot of hate, anger, resentments, guilts, all of it. It's okay to not be there yet.

I would just caution you to not let the anger get the best of you. In a way though, she will never forgive me for my anger. Which is kind of a good thing because it will stop the recycle attempts now. I think some people get recycled so much because they just accept it and end everything very cordially. It leaves the door wide open.

These are just my two cents. I see the valid point of trying to look at the big picture. But you're angry. And angry brain is not going to think rationally. it's not programmed to do that. So be upset. Get angry. And if the regret and guilt comes over what you said or how you feel SHARE IT HERE! Don't do what I keep doing and apoligizing to her. Please for the love of god don't. It makes it 20 times worse.

[RomanticFool]

Roberto I am very clear in my thinking and if you read the messages I sent to.my exBPD they are cold and clinical and not full of soppy romantic bullsh*t. I am rather confused by the contradictory advice I have received on here. One minute I'm told in a dire, stark warning to cut her off with NC and the next it appears that I have misunderstood her message to me which is apparently her trying to alleviate my pain by contacting me.

I didn't want her to contact me. I was doing great and getting stronger after 5 weeks. She did it because SHE couldn't bear the silence, not because she was feeling guilty about my pain. She is not interested in my pain or anything to do with my emotions. Now I'm supposed to be understanding to a woman who has spent 14 years giving me the silent treatment just because she has deigned to write to me. The selfish child could have alleviated my pain a million times over by writing to me at various junctures when I was desperate and in agony due to her behaviour.

It's all very well people doling out advice on here but unless they have been in tbe relationship they can't understand the constant agony of it. It's like emotional groundhog day. Even if I have been harsh and misinterpreted her words believe me she deserves my rancour. She acts like the victim in a situation where she has abused the trust and emotional tolerance of me and probably her husband too and puts it all down to the portentious idea that she is so complex that nobody can understand her so she might now go and live on her own. She couldn't be on her own if her life depended on it. She is a self deluding liar. The most revealing part of her message was this:

I am a complicated person not a label and I'm tired of being told I have some disorder or the other because you need to rationalise my behaviour.

She is tired of me trying to rationalise her behaviour even though she has been cruel and withholding. Not an ounce of regret or empathy in that. Just self justifying indignation. Typical of a sociopath and a BPD. She doesn't want me to find a reason why she behaves like she does, I just have to put up with it.

Note the total lack of love or any sense that she has been missing me physically or emotionally in anyway. She is cold and calculating.

There is so much conflict in me. On one hand my mental health has been much better over the last few weeks because I have not been stressing over what I can do against what you expect

This is after five weeks of agony for me. Here she is effectively saying that she feels better for the lack of contact. After 14 years of having love from me. She feels better at the lack of contact because I am so demanding. At the end of our relationship I was getting 2 texts a day which literally consisted of 'morning' and 'night' but I am stressing her out so much.

and yet there is so much hurt attached to the silence that I can't help but feel guilty and wonder how you are - hence the contact. I just can no longer do what you need

So she has been wondering how I am. Well since you are wondering Mrs BPD I've been fu*cking awful and struggling with having my heart ripped out. How about some kind words of love and affection? What's that you say? You can no longer do what I need? Since when have you ever been concerned with what I need? But why can't you do it?

My husband watches me like a hawk and my son is always around with batting ears so I can't communicate as you would wish

Oh your pesky husband. Well why don't you leave him then? You've had 14 years of love from me. Surely that is long enough to know what you want? Oh you don't know what you want. Your son is always around listening to your conversations. How old is he? Oh he's 25. Wow, but isn't that old enough to look after himself. Why is he at home? Oh because he is an alcoholic drug addict who feels empty inside and hates his mother for how she has treated him. I see. So the real source of your guilt is surfacing. Incidentally, I have listened to the trials and tribulations of what has happened to this poor kid for years and years and always been understanding and loving to her about it.

Note she says that she can't do as I would wish. No mention of what she would wish. Because true to BPD nature she doesn't know what she wants. After 14 years.

As for anger clouding my judgement, I have never been clearer in how I think about her. Her message was just simply another rejection this time framed in the notion that she is being pulled in different directions. And then finally the zinger at the end:

Your lifestyle is  far better suited to this double life - mine isn't at present and until I change it will only get harder.

Which shows how utterly and completely she missed the point. She thinks I'm in it for a bit on the side and somehow I have enjoyed the double life and somehow am more equipped to deal with it. This after telling her time and again that she is the love of my life and that if she wants to be with me I will make it happen. To me, this is the most hurtful thing she has ever said. It literally crushed me when I read it. She doesn't understand what she has meant to me over all of these years. it is utterly devastating to read that.

This situation is of her making and yet she sees herself as the victim. If she hadn't lied to me by pretending not to be married 14 years ago we wouldn't be here. If she hadn't come back into my life 6 months into my marriage she wouldn't have ensnared me again.  She has stolen 14 years of my life and her kisses and words contained the promise of a life together that she never intended on delivering. Now she has cast me aside because I want to see her and her husband has discovered her infidelity. Well fu*k her. I hope she is as miserable for the next 14 years as I have been at her hands. If she is you can be certain it won't be to do with regretting treating me like sh*t but will be all to do with how she feels.

I hope she is hurting. I hope she is so pissed at me that she never contacts me again. Only then will I be able to heal from the cold hearted indifference she has inflicted on me over 14 years.

[roberto516]

Romantic fool I will not tell you what you're thinking. I will only speak about my personal experience. My anger clouded my judgment. But anger can only be sustained for so long. If we are caring people we will inevitably come to regret what we said in anger. Usually I'm able to fuel my anger for 2 days before I start to feel like an awful human being about what I said. Maybe you are different. If so, then I'm speaking falsely and I apologize.

I don't think anyone is telling you not to be angry. I know I'm not. You are allowed to feel hurt. But sometimes we don't want to hear the truth. I know I don't.

I hate what I'm about to type. Because it's true. I wasn't a saint. I sit here and say I tried to communicate in a healthy way with her. I did... .a few times. After she shut me down I stuffed it inside and let it build. I could have tried better communication patterns. I could have used more empathy. And I realize that deep down I hate myself for "falling for it". I have to accept that.

I can be angry at her; as you are. And we have every right to be. And I'm not telling you to hate yourself or to take blame for anything. I just see myself in you. That's all. And I care about what you are going through. I don't know if any of this makes sense. But the sooner I realize how big of an A-hole I was at times the faster I'm going to be able to forgive myself and heal.

I don't think it's contradictory messages either. I think you were first debating about staying NC and people were giving feedback/experiences with that. The second topic was when you actually communicated. So feedback/experiences came based off the contact. I think they are two separate things. But I understand.

I posted a couple days ago about hating her. Specifically stating that I didn't want advice/feedback at this time. Maybe you just want support that this sucks? If so, then I'm all for it. I hope some of this helps in anyway.

[Grey Kitty]

First of all, if she feels any conflict over serving me or her husband, she has had 14 years to figure it out. There is no conflict. She has made it perfectly clear to me time and again that she is never leaving her marriage. Where is the conflict?

Uhm, no, there is a PLENTY of conflict for her. (I say that, because I've got a close friend who is more-or-less in your shoes, in an affair with a guy who has no interest or intention of leaving his marriage, and I hear a lot about it from her. Her sitatuion is better than yours, but that is because the guy she's involved with doesn't have BPD or BPD traits... .the fundamental conflict there still causes problems for them.)

The conflict is living a double life, and there is absolutely no way around this conflict without ending her affair with you (which she seems to be on-and-off trying to do) or her marriage (which she says she won't do).

She's deceiving her husband. She's pretending that you (a very significant part of her life) doesn't exist to her husband, family, etc.

You are correct--she did choose this conflict 14 years ago. That she chose it doesn't make it go away, or make it easy on her. And it would be the responsible thing for her to own that choice, which is what I think you are trying to say.

And you got pulled into it--you had to participate in keeping this secret. It isn't fun for you either.

Unfortunately, she has BPD or BPD traits, so her tools for managing the conflict suck. Really suck. So she's also chosen to do all the horrible things you've described in great detail during this relationship.

(And you are quite angry about all of that... .legitimately so!)

[RomanticFool]

These are choppy waters to sail in. I sent her a slightly more circumspect communication today because I don't want her last message from me to be all about BPD. I am in a very different place to the past. I know the nature of the beast I am dealing with now. I have been angry, as you all have witnessed. I have been cutting. I have been decisive. What I haven't been during this latest break up is empathic. That was because whenever i have been empathic in the past and sent her emails owning up to my part in stuff and trying to be understanding about hers, it has usually been met by silence.

However, I don't really care about silence at the moment. I need to do what is right for me. Because I am an empathic person, I had to send her a softer email. It still wasn't all that soft and she will take some of it as criticism, but I was at least able to validate some of the points in her email and acknowledge her own conflict. As the caregiver in the past I have totally neglected my own side of the emotional spectrum and the more this happened, the more I started to demand she pay attention. As we know with BPD that never works.

My message today was kind of a summing up of how I have felt about her but also acknowledging it is difficult for her.  I also told her how deeply it has affected me because I am no longer prepared to ignore my own feelings but I did at least try not to say it in an accusatory manner.

I hope she doesn't reply (I suspect she won't) because I want to draw a line under this now. I have grieved the last 2 days since I received her message and it opened all my wounds up again. However, I am stronger than at any time I have dealt with her because I told her to do what she has to do. I am now prepared to let her go without the rage that fuelled the last 2 days and the resentment which has fuelled the last five weeks. It is still early days and there may be more twists and turns yet but I sincerely hope it ends here and we leave each other in peace. (Fat chance I hear you cry). My message to her today was the type of message I can look back on and feel the tiniest amount of closure at least.

Thanks for your support. I appreciate it.

[once removed]

I need to do what is right for me.

this is why we want to avoid self defeating behavior in the aftermath of our relationships. not because of the pain of our exes, or whatever they are feeling. but for us.

long after you heal and the pain is gone, you will be able to look back, and be proud, that you were strong, maintained your dignity, and got through the pain in a mature way.

I hope she doesn't reply (I suspect she won't) because I want to draw a line under this now.

... .

It is still early days and there may be more twists and turns yet but I sincerely hope it ends here and we leave each other in peace.

dont leave this up to her. if you sincerely hope it ends here, let it end on this more positive note regardless of what she does or doesnt do.

[RomanticFool]

Once removed - I said those exact words to myself yesterday. Dignity, pride and self respect. At the point of my worst pain I showed some degree of empathy to her. I did still say some negative things, like I felt betrayed by her telling me she couldn't see me anymore having promised a future.

However, I told her that I understand she is confused and I understand the stress of her situation. I told her I didn't understand why she has stayed with her husband when I was offering her a proper loving relationship but I accepted it.

My final paragraph said, ':)o as you must do. I go away with love in my heart for you. You touched my soul in some way and I am grateful for the time we had together.'

Unlike the last 6 weeks when I went away in anger. I am calmer today and feel some sense of closure. At times when I feel yearning and desire for her. I think of her in bed with her husband.  That strengthens my resolve to keep away.

[Grey Kitty]

My final paragraph said, ':)o as you must do. I go away with love in my heart for you. You touched my soul in some way and I am grateful for the time we had together.'

A relationship takes two people, two votes to start or continue it. When there is one vote to end it, it is over... .no matter what the other person wants. If you accept this, there are a couple things you can conclude:

1. If she says it is over, it is. (Unless/until she changes her mind)
2. If you say it is over, it is. (ditto)
3. If you end it, you don't NEED to tell her why, or offer her closure, or anything. You don't owe that to her. There is only one universal thing you owe a person when you are breaking up with them:

Clearly telling them that it is over.

Anything else which might help for closure is a bonus, and offering it is probably kind, but that depends on circumstances.

Unlike the last 6 weeks when I went away in anger. I am calmer today and feel some sense of closure. At times when I feel yearning and desire for her. I think of her in bed with her husband.  That strengthens my resolve to keep away.

It is possible to choose to end a relationship, AND still care about the person, still love the person, still yearn for the person. This isn't a contradiction at all.

It is, however, really difficult to get through.   Take good care of yourself, and do whatever you have to keep your resolve.

I remember one person describing finding a place in her diary where she poured out her heartbreak over something her ex had done to her... .and wrote the only way she had to contact him down right next to it, so she wouldn't reach out to him without having to see that reminder!

[RomanticFool]

Just to clarify Grey Kitty, I didn't write the message for her. I did it for me. I knew she wouldn't respond. Even though I'm the one who walked away, we both know it was her who made it impossible to continue. I jumped before I was pushed and probably retained some dignity by so doing. She said to me on the phone last week that I told her to go away which I didn't and one of the things I wanted to make clear in my email was that I hadn't abandoned her... I walked away because she said we could no longer see each other. If we weren't dealing with a pwBPD (her) and another with abandonment issues and a highly developed written invective (me) you would probably say it was a mutual decision. However, the pain feels like heroin and heart withdrawal all at once.

I totally disagree with you about owing people explanations. I think that attitude is why so many people end up bitter. I think we owe each other a duty of care and when one partner chooses to reject that pact which is implicit in trust and love, then you have anger and bitterness. If I leave my wife tomorrow, I absolutely owe her an explanation. It is the minimum hunan beings should do for each other imho not to do so is cruel.

I will always care about my exBPD. In my experience the big loves come along once every decade if you are lucky. I am truly grateful for the wonderful times I spent with her. Despite my anger there is something special about her which she doesn't see in herself and which I am glad I was able to reflect back to her.

However, I hope she never darkens my doorstep (or WhatsApp) again.

[Skip]

Maybe a suggestion? The next thing you want to text to her (I know I wouldn't stop if I were you) you can post it here first?

This might be worth considering... .

[RomanticFool]

I will Skip. Now I am a bit more rational, it is not my intention to cause her pain. She always said I was an angry person and just before we split up I said to her, 'If it wasn't for my passion this relationship would never have lasted so long.' She said, 'Have you ever considered it has lasted despite it?'

I am certain she sees much of my behaviour as abusive/aggressive/hurtful. So the fact a relationship kept going between two damaged people for so long, is quite something. I know I have been excellent at providing narcissistic supply for her, which wasn't difficult because she is beautiful but thought herself to be ugly. For somebody like me who enjoys words, it wasn't difficult to find superlatives to say about her. I wrote her a poem which I would like to share here (but will change the final word because it is her name).

With upright gait and model looks,
She is the woman of my dreams,
'I am something of a femme fatale,'
Every fibre of her screams.

The face that launched a thousand ships,
And broke a thousand hearts,
A slave to her confounding ways,
My rationale departs.

She dresses smart in bangled chic,
And trendy, punk rock fashion,
Her hair a multi coloured treat,
This siren fires my passion.

A look that has bewitched my soul,
A pout that draws me in,
The lips of a seductress,
And a body made for sin.

A svelte delight and luring charm,
Great qualities does she possess,
A beautiful, bodacious bosom,
My Amazonian Goddess.

The tattoo on her left arm,
An ongoing work of art,
But what I love about this gem,
Is the purity of her heart.

She is my stunning raison d'être,
And perfectly formed muse,
Every day in righteous ways,
'Sweet lady, You, I choose.'

She has a wealth of intellect,
Beguiling, bold and smart,
An empathetic listener,
And fashion's new Mozart.

I crave a kiss from this chatelaine,
With a fervour quite peculiar,
I worship and exalt the name,
Of my intoxicating Petunia!

[RomanticFool]

Just a little note on the above poem. This was written five years ago at the beginning of our second cycle together. She was attending a conference where she was a delegate at a suicide prevention charity so the line 'an empathetic listener' was referring to that. Not personal experience of her. It was always a bugbear of mine that she would spend so long talking people down off the ledge and yet I nearly ended up on it thanks to the lack of empathy towards me. The beginning of the end came when I told her she was a disgrace to that organisation.

[roberto516]

Just a little note on the above poem. This was written five years ago at the beginning of our second cycle together. She was attending a conference where she was a delegate at a suicide prevention charity so the line 'an empathetic listener' was referring to that. Not personal experience of her. It was always a bugbear of mine that she would spend so long talking people down off the ledge and yet I nearly ended up on it thanks to the lack of empathy towards me. The beginning of the end came when I told her she was a disgrace to that organisation.

My ex is a therapist and is also very spiritual with yoga and buddhist, wayne dyer stuff. I told her near the end that she should really look at being a therapist if she can't feel her own feelings or talk about them like you think a therapist should. The irony is my job definitely should have trained me to not be so angry as I was telling her she should be able to speak her feelings.

But she did mention that her ex before me called her a "fraud" for believing in all the spirituality stuff, and not being able to live the message she preached. And I won't lie. A part of me agrees with him. I know she' sick, and has no identity of her own. But your comment spoke volumes.

It seems like a lot of our exes are in the helping profession. There's definitely a truth to the fact that they probably do it as a subconscious way to fix themselves. 

[Grey Kitty]

That poem is kinda heartbreaking.

I agree that vanishing on somebody without an explanation is cruel, and I'm not recommending it, aside from special circumstances, such as fear of abuse/rage when you tell the person. Or perhaps where communications are broken enough that you cannot explain it in a way that the other person seems to get it.

That said, I think that leaving somebody dangling on a string, with hopes being built up and dashed again and again is far worse and far more cruel. (I bet you've been on the receiving side of this.)

Now that you've chosen to end this with her, your obligation to communicate the ending clearly is more important than your obligation to tell her why.

Even though I'm the one who walked away, we both know it was her who made it impossible to continue. I jumped before I was pushed and probably retained some dignity by so doing. She said to me on the phone last week that I told her to go away which I didn't and one of the things I wanted to make clear in my email was that I hadn't abandoned her... I walked away because she said we could no longer see each other.

This is in a muddy emotional space between saying that you chose to end it, and that you only did it to acknowledge that she had (effectively) ended it already.

In the ending and aftermath of my marriage, I've been both places. My first position was that I couldn't be in a r/s with her because of her actions. (Long and complicated story, but ending point was that she refused to cut contact with a guy she cheated on me with.) Later, I found that I was done with our marriage, and wasn't interested in having her back, regardless.

Which side are you on?

[RomanticFool]

Grey Kitty,

That's a very interesting question and one that causes me conflict. If it was down to me ie if she hadn't made it impossible to see her anymore, I never would have ended it. I don't think I have ever ended a relationship in my life, apart from very short ones. I can't bear to let people go. Even when it's clear that the relationship is no longer working, I hang in there because I don't want to hurt the other person. The irony is that I have spent much of my life either being dumped or relationships phasing out. One of us just stops calling the other and then it's done. Or with a long distance relationship where the woman told me I was the love of her life, it just kind of ended because I couldn't go to Germany to be with her. I still feel guilt around that one.

However, with my exBPD it was different. She is the love of my life. Or let me put it this way, of all the times I have been heartbroken, and there have been many, this one has been the most profound. Normally if somebody has broken my heart I would never let them back into my life. It is one area that I am quite healthy ie not going back for more pain with an ex. This is the one and only time I have ever done it and I only did it because I thought her husband had passed. He had cancer the first time around and the eventual end of the first cycle was when we were online and I said something stupid about him that was born out of jealousy. She immediately went offline and that was the last I heard of her.

Interestingly enough, I never told her I loved her during the first cycle. We would meet for fairly tortuous sex and while I fancied the pants off her, I knew she was fearful and uncomfortable with sex and the whole relationship. It felt like I was meeting somebody who was bereaved or something of that ilk. I always went to her home town in those days and she was always on her guard. One time I met her in the Hard Rock Cafe and she looked like Marilyn Monroe. (I used to feel physical pain at seeing her and not being able to sleep with her - on the days she only had limited time) Anyway on this occasion I asked her what she wanted and I'll never forget what she told me: 'I want somebody to put me on a pedestal.' I remember telling her that I would never do that as at the time I was tired of women taking and not giving back. The relationship ended shortly after that. It occurs to me now that I was probably healthier then than I am now.

She had in fact told me on the first cycle that she loved me. I cannot remember if I ever said it back to her. I think I asked her that day in the cafe if she loved me and I think she said something like, 'I believe I do.' I was seeing another woman at the time and I didn't want to cheat on her and I thought she was more available than the my exBPD. I thought a r/s would just be too hard work.

When we met up for the recycle, she told me she always remembered me saying to her that I would never put her on a pedestal and she took it as I wasn't interested. I told her that I had been in love with her but I felt that because she was married there was nothing in it but pain. She looked utterly shocked that I said I had loved her.

Our first cycle was predicated on a lie. When we met online on a dating site, she never told me she was married. I took the train 100 miles to her home town, met her in the pub and slept with her. She then invited me to her house to meet her husband. I thought they had some kind of open relationship or something and I got the distinct impression that she may have done that before. I told her there was no way I was going home with her. However, it now occurs to me that maybe she was trying to make him jealous.

I never really quizzed her much about that night because we were both drunk and we both gave up drinking pretty soon afterwards. We both stayed sober for 10 years before she relapsed. I am still sober now. So perhaps that night was her rock bottom. Offering a one night stand to come to her home. She did tell me that she had had liaisons in the past when drunk. I asked her about them when I knew her better and she replied, 'It was disgusting and I don't want to talk about it.' That was the last time I ever quizzed her about her past. I mean, I had been completely out of control sexually myself - but then I wasn't married with three kids.

Looking back on that first cycle now, i would have to say that it seems out of character for the woman I knew to do that. But then that's the point, I never really knew her. She was an enigma to me and I think that was one of reasons I kept coming back. Her and her husband are in a rather dubious field of work, I'll say no more than that, and her look and her life attracted me greatly. Physically she was sexy and beautiful. She was everything my love starved heart dreamt about.

She would tell me stories of when she met her husband. How he was the king of their college and all the girls were after him. How after she had captured him, she would be aggressive and nasty to any woman who looked at him. Again, I never saw this side of her. She was combative with me and quite difficult at times, but I am very used to strong women and loved her all the more for it. Face to face we always communicated very well. On text it was a disaster. As soon as she started the push/pull cycle I was aggressive with her from the outset. My fragile heart could not take rejection back then and I was pretty vile. Age has tamed me somewhat and I have learnt self control, but a text relationship for me is a nightmare, especially when I am denied the right to reply.

The deduction I make from her stories about her husband and the fact she has had three kids with him, is that he is the love of her life. Whenever I used to say to her that she was my big love, she never once said it back. She would say that she loved me, but never that I was the love of her life. In the interests in getting my fix from her I never pushed that. During the love-bombing phase she would say that we were soulmates and that I belonged to her. She would complain that her husband never talked to her during their work (they worked from home and they spent all day together). She said he was on the autistic spectrum and his unavailability originally attracted her but now she was bored and frustrated by him. She was starved of love and he never kissed her.

I noticed when we met and I would kiss her, she wasn't massively receptive despite her complaints about her husband. She wanted sex with the lights off. She always warned me before we met that she was looking old or fat or rough in some way. To me, she always looked stunning. She is definitely the sexiest woman I have ever slept with. It was effortless for her. But she had breast augmentation and other cosmetic work done on her face as her body dysmorphia got worse and worse. When she turned 60 she was clinically depressed. She told me she had done some modelling in her youth and couldn't bear losing her looks. Obviously I reassured her constantly of her beauty.

Wow, I didn't mean to write all of that. However, looking back, I think she liked me because I was different to her husband. Expressive, communicative and high profile in my work. She likes men who are admired. One time I got recognised in a restaurant and her reaction kind of shocked me. She looked quite upset and I asked her what was wrong and she replied, 'You obviously mean alot to some people.' I asked her why that was a problem and she said, 'Because I want to be the centre of attention.'

As the Americans say. Go figure!

[Grey Kitty]

Go figure indeed!

Reading what you wrote, you clearly are full of feelings about her, powerful ones, both postive and negative.

Maybe I missed it in there, but I didn't really see an answer to the question of whether  you are choosing not to continue this relationship with her, or whether you simply are backing away because she's (effectively) ending it.

[RomanticFool]

The answer is that I am backing away because she is effectively ending it by making it impossible to continue. My journey at the moment is trying to own that decision and see it for what it really is - freedom.