Self-esteem vs. self-compassion

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hi bpdfamily members  

I wanted to get your input on this subject. Lately, I've been thinking a lot about self-compassion and how it affects our lives and relationships. I ran into this article about it, which I found very interesting:

Why Self-Compassion Works Better Than Self-Esteem, by Olga Khazan

It's an interview with Kristin Neff, PhD, from the University of Texas. Some highlights:

On Self-Esteem:

"... .it's pretty common, at least in American society, that in order to have high self-esteem, you have to feel special and above-average. If someone said, "Oh, your performance was average," you would feel hurt by that, almost insulted.

When we fail, self-esteem deserts us, which is precisely when we need it most.

And so the problem is we're constantly comparing ourselves to others. We try to puff ourselves up. We have what's called self-enhancement bias, where we see ourselves as better in almost any culturally valued trait. There's a large body of research showing that bullying is largely caused by the quest for high self-esteem—the process of feeling special and better-than."

"The real problem with that is self-esteem is only available when we succeed. But when we fail, self-esteem deserts us, which is precisely when we need it most. And some people argue that the instability of self-esteem going up and down is more damaging than the level of self-esteem itself."

On Self-Compassion:

"In order to have self-compassion, we have to be willing to turn toward and acknowledge our suffering. Typically, we don't want to do that. We want to avoid it, we don't want to think about it, and want to go straight into problem-solving.

And in fact, I would argue that self-compassion also provides a sense of self-worth, but it's not linked to narcissism the way self-esteem is. It's not linked to social comparison the way self-esteem is, and it's not contingent, because you have self-compassion both when you fail and when you succeed. The sense of self-worth that comes from being kind to yourself is much more stable over time than the sense of self-worth that comes from judging yourself positively."

"... .there's some work with combat vets, on their level of self-compassion— are they an inner enemy or an inner ally? The vets who were an inner ally instead of an inner enemy cope much better and are much less likely to develop PTSD symptoms. It helps people cope with divorce, pain, age."

"A big one, which a lot of people just can't quite believe, is that it enhances motivation. People who are more self-compassionate, when they fail, they're less afraid of failure."

Self-Compassion and Gender:

"Women tend to be less self-compassionate than men. Now, we're doing research looking at gender role orientation, and androgynous women—women who draw equally on their masculine and feminine sides— have exactly the same level of self-compassion [as men]."

Can We Go Too Far with Self-Compassion?:

"Self-compassion helps you be motivated, it helps you take responsibility. It's not self-indulgent, it's not selfish, it leads to better relationships. I find it's quite remarkable how much research there is supporting these ideas."


I found this explanation of the differences between self-esteem and self-compassion enlightening. I think what I've been noticing recently is that I have been experiencing more self-compassion, and self-esteem doesn't seem as important. When I can feel that inner expression of tenderness, that care toward myself, suddenly that is the sweetest, most important thing—and not whether I believe I'm a good or lovable or worthy person. Does that make sense?

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the questions below, and/or anything else you'd like to share on this subject.  

• How have you cultivated self-compassion and where have you gotten stuck?
• How have you confused self-esteem with self-compassion?
• What does self-compassion mean, and look like, for you?

heartandwhole

[heartandwhole]

Hi bpdfamily members  

I wanted to get your input on this subject. Lately, I've been thinking a lot about self-compassion and how it affects our lives and relationships. I ran into this article about it, which I found very interesting:

Why Self-Compassion Works Better Than Self-Esteem, by Olga Khazan

It's an interview with Kristin Neff, PhD, from the University of Texas. Some highlights:

On Self-Esteem:

"... .it's pretty common, at least in American society, that in order to have high self-esteem, you have to feel special and above-average. If someone said, "Oh, your performance was average," you would feel hurt by that, almost insulted.

When we fail, self-esteem deserts us, which is precisely when we need it most.

And so the problem is we're constantly comparing ourselves to others. We try to puff ourselves up. We have what's called self-enhancement bias, where we see ourselves as better in almost any culturally valued trait. There's a large body of research showing that bullying is largely caused by the quest for high self-esteem—the process of feeling special and better-than."

"The real problem with that is self-esteem is only available when we succeed. But when we fail, self-esteem deserts us, which is precisely when we need it most. And some people argue that the instability of self-esteem going up and down is more damaging than the level of self-esteem itself."

On Self-Compassion:

"In order to have self-compassion, we have to be willing to turn toward and acknowledge our suffering. Typically, we don't want to do that. We want to avoid it, we don't want to think about it, and want to go straight into problem-solving.

And in fact, I would argue that self-compassion also provides a sense of self-worth, but it's not linked to narcissism the way self-esteem is. It's not linked to social comparison the way self-esteem is, and it's not contingent, because you have self-compassion both when you fail and when you succeed. The sense of self-worth that comes from being kind to yourself is much more stable over time than the sense of self-worth that comes from judging yourself positively."

"... .there's some work with combat vets, on their level of self-compassion— are they an inner enemy or an inner ally? The vets who were an inner ally instead of an inner enemy cope much better and are much less likely to develop PTSD symptoms. It helps people cope with divorce, pain, age."

"A big one, which a lot of people just can't quite believe, is that it enhances motivation. People who are more self-compassionate, when they fail, they're less afraid of failure."

Self-Compassion and Gender:

"Women tend to be less self-compassionate than men. Now, we're doing research looking at gender role orientation, and androgynous women—women who draw equally on their masculine and feminine sides— have exactly the same level of self-compassion [as men]."

Can We Go Too Far with Self-Compassion?:

"Self-compassion helps you be motivated, it helps you take responsibility. It's not self-indulgent, it's not selfish, it leads to better relationships. I find it's quite remarkable how much research there is supporting these ideas."


I found this explanation of the differences between self-esteem and self-compassion enlightening. I think what I've been noticing recently is that I have been experiencing more self-compassion, and self-esteem doesn't seem as important. When I can feel that inner expression of tenderness, that care toward myself, suddenly that is the sweetest, most important thing—and not whether I believe I'm a good or lovable or worthy person. Does that make sense?

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the questions below, and/or anything else you'd like to share on this subject.  

• How have you cultivated self-compassion and where have you gotten stuck?
• How have you confused self-esteem with self-compassion?
• What does self-compassion mean, and look like, for you?

heartandwhole

[purekalm]

Hello heartandwhole,

I like this topic for discussion.

    How have you cultivated self-compassion and where have you gotten stuck? How have you confused self-esteem with self-compassion? What does self-compassion mean, and look like, for you?

My dad, who is the one with uBPD, had an extremely poor image of himself and alternating too high and important one. I never wanted to be like him and be 'in love' with myself. My mother, on the other hand, didn't have as big of an issue with it until she gained weight and my dad took everyone and everything away from her and then she viewed her worth based on appearance and such. My youngest sister was the most heavily impacted by all the negative self image both of them represented.

I had plenty of compassion for others, but reserved none for myself. I had no 'self-esteem' or 'self-compassion'. I alternated between self-hate and trying to accept myself the way I was. Ever since I was young I was the 'family fixer' like Fix-It-Felix there with the golden hammer to solve everyone's problems. But, all too soon I realized that no matter what I did the problems always came back and nothing really changed and I lost purpose and hope at about 15 years old. Ever since then I've tried to figure this all out. I couldn't even accept compliments because I didn't want to become 'self-absorbed' and think I was better than anyone else. I diminished myself in just about every way so no one would ever call me that, but some still did or tried to twist it around to make me a conniving person desperate for attention.

Self-compassion is something that I'm currently working on. Being able to see myself for who I am, faults and all, and accept that I'm ok, I'm a work in progress and that I'll never 'make it' because I don't have enough life to live. I'm not all important, though I do need to take care of myself and be kind to myself to be the best me I can and most beneficial to others.  That's how I see it anyways.

Purekalm

[Panda39]

I'm with purkalm,

Interesting topic, I always like something at makes you think. 

"And so the problem is we're constantly comparing ourselves to others. We try to puff ourselves up. We have what's called self-enhancement bias, where we see ourselves as better in almost any culturally valued trait. There's a large body of research showing that bullying is largely caused by the quest for high self-esteem—the process of feeling special and better-than."

I wanted to first disagree with this at least in terms of my own experience.  I had low self-esteem for a long time.  Negative messages started as a child by my mom (not BPD).  She was critical and intellectual (where I was emotional).  I would argue that my journey to self-esteem wasn't about being special or better than but more a quest to feel as good as or as deserving as everyone else... .not better than anyone else.

I think for me without self esteem, self compassion was more difficult.  If I felt unworthy, not as good as, then I didn't deserve compassion even my own... .making it hard to accept. I like purekalm was very good at compassion for everyone else... .I found value in myself for the compassion and care I gave to others, yes I am one of the many "caretaker" types on this site.  I've realized since being here that I have a long pattern of care taking relationships and a co-dependent marriage.  

During my divorce I had a series of breakdowns that were really break throughs.

These days I feel as good as anyone else I would describe my self esteem as good, I realize that I deserve to be treated well and as part of that I can accept a lot more than I used to... .help (will accept and seek it out when I need it), compassion and caring (I am deserving) from myself and others in my life, I'm more able and willing to let people in/be vulnerable (I like who I am).  I am more authentic and secure about who I am (I'm not perfect and accept who I am).

"Self-compassion is something that I'm currently working on. Being able to see myself for who I am, faults and all, and accept that I'm ok, I'm a work in progress and that I'll never 'make it' because I don't have enough life to live. I'm not all important, though I do need to take care of myself and be kind to myself to be the best me I can and most beneficial to others.    That's how I see it anyways."

purekalm,

I think it is okay for you to care for yourself and be kind to yourself just for you, why do you think it feels more comfortable to do it for the benefit of others rather than just for yourself?

I'm interested in what others will have to say about this topic.

Panda39

[purekalm]

Panda39,

I would argue that my journey to self-esteem wasn't about being special or better than but more a quest to feel as good as or as deserving as everyone else... .not better than anyone else.

I agree. This article may have self-esteem and narcissism a bit mixed. Those negative feelings would be attached to narcissism since 'self' is of utmost importance. Self-esteem, on the other hand is more like what you describe, how you feel your worth is compared to others, but not in a, am I better? way. More like a, do I at least measure up type thing. Self-compassion to me is Self-Love. Accepting yourself regardless of what your status is in society just because you exist. I wonder if that makes any sense at all.  Self-esteem: Am I worthy? Deserving? Self-Love: Do I accept myself regardless of what others opinions are of me and where I stack up in society?

I think it is okay for you to care for yourself and be kind to yourself just for you, why do you think it feels more comfortable to do it for the benefit of others rather than just for yourself?

Well, I meant like for me AND for others. Like the verse "Jesus replied, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Matthew 22:37-39 

So, with that, I take it as I'm supposed to love others the same as I love myself and currently I love others MORE than myself. Being the caretaker, naturally liking to help people and see people happy, my upbringing with my parent's issues, not liking attention or boasting, loving being a loner and so many other factors contributed and even encouraged it I assume. Self-compassion/self-love is something I have a hard time with but I am working on it and realizing the reasons why I'm currently hardwired this way.

Purekalm

[heartandwhole]

Hi purekalm and Panda39,

Thank you for offering your perspectives on this topic! I can relate to much of what you both wrote. I, too, never felt that I was trying to be better than others, but I did measure my self-worth by comparing myself to others—and I think that is an important point. I'd go so far as to say that I also measure myself by comparing the "now" me to the "past" me. Ugh. Depending on what I'm comparing (physical body vs. wisdom/experience), that can be a disaster or a revelation.  

I've been watching some videos on this subject. Neff says that studies show that about 76% of people report being compassionate toward others, but not toward themselves. I think it has something to do with that message of "loving others" that many of us have grown up with. Also, if we learned in our FOOs to take care of others to get our needs met, I think that solidifies the tendency to put that energy outward toward others.

Neff's point is that self-compassion is not a selfish act at all. In fact, it's a motivator, which I found really interesting. It's also positively correlated with guilt (non-shaming) and negatively correlated with shame. So, people who are self-compassionate are more willing to take ownership of their mistakes, apologize, and rectify the issue.

Self-compassion is something that I'm currently working on. Being able to see myself for who I am, faults and all, and accept that I'm ok, I'm a work in progress and that I'll never 'make it' because I don't have enough life to live.

I hear what you are saying here, purekalm, and I wonder if this is also an accurate statement about self-esteem? I say that because self-esteem is probably the thing that we'll never "get" completely, because there will always be people who are better at things, smarter, more attractive, nicer, etc. We'll never reach the "pinnacle," of self-esteem, which may be driving a desire to be without flaws.

What I really like about self-compassion is that it represents our common humanity. So, we know that we are like everyone else on the planet: flawed and amazing and average, and lovable (sometimes) and a pain in the butt (sometimes), etc. Every single person on this planet struggles to feel good about themselves at one time or another. So recognizing that, in itself, is an act of self-compassion.

My understanding is that self-compassion can be practiced in a moment. A moment of warmth toward, and an embrace of, our suffering. Sometimes I even embrace myself physically. I've heard that touching oneself (maybe a hand on the heart, for example) during such times can be very powerful. I remember my therapist telling me to try to hold my suffering self in both hands, lovingly, like I might hold a baby bird or something precious. I needed to ask her how to comfort and care for myself.  

Anyone want to share how you give compassion to yourself when you are hurting?

heartandwhole

[purekalm]

Heartandwhole,

I must confess I was a bit distracted and put the two together in that statement. I usually reread what I write before I post it for spelling errors and whatnot but I didn't get a chance last time.

I remember my therapist telling me to try to hold my suffering self in both hands, lovingly, like I might hold a baby bird or something precious. I needed to ask her how to comfort and care for myself.

Interestingly, my old therapist told me something similar but it was about acknowledging the pain of my childhood and telling that part of me that it's ok now and I'll take care of myself or some such thing like that. This is obviously where I struggle the most. I have almost endless compassion for other's suffering and almost zilch for myself.

Anyone want to share how you give compassion to yourself when you are hurting?

When I read that question I thought, ummmmm, I don't think I do that. I have ways to calm down and try to get out of depression, to push myself through the day when I don't feel like I can take another step, but when I'm hurting? I just 'deal' with it. I don't tell myself it's ok, on the contrary I most often berate myself for feeling/being 'weak' and to 'just get it together', etc. The only thing I do to help myself is take my concerns to God, but I don't always do that like I should.

As I said, here lately (in recent weeks) I've been trying to work on that. (The inner critic is strong with this one. ) For every reason I can comfort myself there are a million reasons why not to. I think I will get there in time. It's a pretty foreign concept still.

Like you, I'm interested in how others comfort themselves. I hope more will respond to your question. =)

Purekalm

[heartandwhole]

but when I'm hurting? I just 'deal' with it. I don't tell myself it's ok, on the contrary I most often berate myself for feeling/being 'weak' and to 'just get it together', etc.

As I said, here lately (in recent weeks) I've been trying to work on that. (The inner critic is strong with this one. )

Purekalm, thanks for sharing this. I can relate, and I think many other people can as well. Self-compassion is new for me, and I'm working on it, too. 

I heard Kristin Neff answer a question in one of her recent conference videos, in which the person asked her for help dealing with the inner critic, who always seems to be present. She said that self-compassion would show tender acceptance to the inner critic. That critical voice is, after all, trying to protect us, even if we perceive it as a negative and/or unhelpful part of us. I thought that was a great answer. It makes sense to me.

heartandwhole

[purekalm]

Hi Heartandwhole,

She said that self-compassion would show tender acceptance to the inner critic. That critical voice is, after all, trying to protect us, even if we perceive it as a negative and/or unhelpful part of us. I thought that was a great answer. It makes sense to me.

I can't agree here. I know that, personally, my inner critic has not protected me in any way. It's downright hated me, made me shameful, to try to take my own life and see myself as worthless among other things.

From what I've learned, the inner critic is designed by the negative and crazy influences around us when we're too young to cope or figure out what's going on. I know and appreciate healthy criticism, the kind that points something out but builds you up at the same time. I've not had that experience with my own inner critic. If anything, I think my emotions like anger, disgust and so forth are to be commended for protecting me from myself and others. They didn't try to kill me, but kept me away from things that could have harmed me worse, including my own hand.

Maybe it's just different with everyone, but I will never welcome the inner critic in my life or give it compassion. I have received none from it myself. I think, in my case, showing it compassion is accepting that all the things it's ever said to me or tried to make me do are in fact, correct, which I know to be a lie. I still have a hard time NOT believing it sometimes. It's only ever appeared to attack me in some form, I just can't see showing it compassion. I don't know, I could be seeing it from a weird angle. What do you think?

Purekalm

[heartandwhole]

Maybe it's just different with everyone, but I will never welcome the inner critic in my life or give it compassion. I have received none from it myself. I think, in my case, showing it compassion is accepting that all the things it's ever said to me or tried to make me do are in fact, correct, which I know to be a lie. I still have a hard time NOT believing it sometimes. It's only ever appeared to attack me in some form, I just can't see showing it compassion. I don't know, I could be seeing it from a weird angle. What do you think?

Well, I think you are seeing from an angle that makes a lot of sense. I think I understand where you are coming from, especially the destructive things that the inner critic says being harmful and lies. For me, that part of me that knows that what the inner critic says are lies is the part that is compassionate; a deeper part of what I am.

Some say that the inner critical voices are putting us down because they are afraid for us. Like when we say to someone we love, "Are you sure you want to drink that 6th beer?" That could be felt as criticizing and/or nagging. Why do we do it? Because we are afraid for our loved one, ourselves, maybe both. Maybe we are afraid of being disappointed; of him/her getting hurt; of what it means that he/she is drinking... .it could be anything. If an inner voice says, ":)on't try that, you'll never succeed, you're no good at it," it might be because that part of us wants to protect us from feeling the pain of failure when it doesn't work out.

Showing compassion doesn't mean what the voices say is true, or that we agree with them. No, it's just acknowledging that the voices are there, and that just maybe, they are trying to help, even if in a very unskillful and negative way. My understanding is that these voices often mimic caregivers from our childhoods. So, knowing that they were "taken on" when we were dependent and innocent—like a tape running from the past—might make it easier to have compassion for that part that simply learned to speak to us as others did when we were growing up.

I'm sure you've heard the adage, "What you resist, persists." I can see wanting to reject the inner critic straight out. And that may be a valid strategy for some people. It can be so difficult to embrace "dark" and negative parts of ourselves. It definitely is for me. But I've found that when I can give some non-judgmental and caring space to allow difficult and negative feelings and thoughts to "be," something opens up and softens the anguish and pain. Don't know if that resonates, but that is how I see it. 

heartandwhole

[purekalm]

Heartandwhole,

It can be so difficult to embrace "dark" and negative parts of ourselves. It definitely is for me. But I've found that when I can give some non-judgmental and caring space to allow difficult and negative feelings and thoughts to "be," something opens up and softens the anguish and pain. Don't know if that resonates, but that is how I see it.

I'm sorry, but it does not resonate with me on any level.    It's not difficult for me to see/acknowledge the dark and negative parts of myself but not to 'embrace' them. To me, it feels almost like nurturing that part and I won't do it.

I see it like this. When my son acts out negatively or a dark/negative trait appears it's not ok. It's hard to explain well, but I'll try. He knows I love him and I'm not going to hate him for displaying an undesired emotion/action. There are never excuses, but there are reasons why. I won't cultivate an acceptance of bad behavior or nurture his negative mindset.

An example. Not too long after he talked to his dad almost a month ago now he acted out a bit for a week or so afterwards. There is no excuse for him screaming at me or slamming doors but I understand he is upset because of the situation. After he calms down, or sometimes to help him calm down I hold him and sit next to him and talk to him about it.

In the same way with myself, if I'm hearing that voice that pops up and tells me all these negative things about myself, how, or even why, should I accept it or show it compassion? It literally is not protecting me in any way. It is not warning me in any way. If anything it's hurting me by making me think only of how much I hate myself and everything wrong with me and pushes me into depression which does not help, but makes me avoid the issues that may have caused the negative voice to appear and attack and instead of healing or helping it adds more to the pile I need to work on.

On the other hand there is a more gentle voice that is not critical that accepts me the way I am and pushes me further without putting me down or telling me how awful I am. I'm used to the voice of hate, but I prefer the voice of love.

Some say that the inner critical voices are putting us down because they are afraid for us. Like when we say to someone we love, "Are you sure you want to drink that 6th beer?" That could be felt as criticizing and/or nagging.

I think the key words you used are 'could be felt as'. I believe what you're describing is fear and self-preservation, not the critical inner voice. Fear for someone else and it could even be said fear for yourself at the possible reply is more accurate. Anger is what protects us, because it alerts us to things we aren't sure about or if we're being mistreated. It's of course, how we deal with it if it becomes damaging or helpful though.

We may have to agree to disagree here. 

Purekalm

[Kwamina]

Interesting thread

Also might be interesting to for instance look at what Pete Walker says about the development of the inner critic, specifically in relation to complex PTSD:
"A flashback-inducing critic is typically spawned in a danger-laden childhood home. When parents do not provide safe enough bonding and attachment, the child flounders in abandonment fear and depression. Many children appear to be hard-wired to adapt to this endangering abandonment with perfectionism. This is true for both the passive abandonment of neglect and the active abandonment of abuse. A prevailing climate of danger forces the maturing superego to cultivate the various psychodynamics of perfectionism and endangerment... .When anxious perfectionist efforting, however, fails over and over to render the parents safe and loving, the inner critic becomes increasingly hypervigilant and hostile in its striving to ferret out the shortcomings that seemingly alienate the parents. Like the soldier overlong in combat, PTSD sets in and locks the child into hypervigilance and excessive sympathetic nervous system arousal. Desperate to relieve the anxiety and depression of abandonment, the critic-driven child searches the present, and the future, for all the ways he is too much or not enough. The child’s nascent ego finds no room to develop and her identity virtually becomes the superego. In the process, the critic often becomes virulent and eventually switches to the first person when goading the child: “I’m such a loser. I’m so pathetic… bad... .ugly…worthless…stupid... .defective”. One of my clients grief-fully remembered the constant refrains of his childhood: “If only I wasn’t so needy and selfish…if only my freckles would fade... .if only I could pitch a perfect game... .if only I could stop gagging on the canned peas during dinner... .if only I could pray all the time to get mom’s arthritis cured - then maybe she’d stop picking on me, and then maybe dad would play catch with me”."

He also talks about ways of dealing with the inner critic including embracing him/her and how difficult that can be:
"In my experience, until the fight response is substantially restored, the average complex PTSD client benefits little from the more refined and rational techniques of embracing, dialoguing with, and integrating the valuable parts of the sufficiently shrunken critic – an important part of later recovery work well described in the excellent books: Embracing The Inner Critic, by Stone and Stone and Soul Without Shame, by Brown. Once again however, these left-brained, objective approaches are often of very limited use until they are backed up by a subjective, right brain stance of aggressive self-protection. Perhaps this is because the inner critic appears to align with the extreme right brain dominance of flashbacks (as shown in MRI’s); perhaps inner critic processes are so emotionally charged and dominant that unremediated efforts to resist them rationally and dispassionately fail effetely."

There are various ways of dealing with the inner critic and the best or most effective approach seems to depend on where we are at in our healing and on the intensity or form of the inner critic.

Some parrot food for thought

[purekalm]

Kwamina,

"Recovering individuals must learn to recognize, confront and disidentify from the many inner critic processes that tumble them back in emotional time to the awful feelings of overwhelming fear, self-hate, hopelessness and self-disgust that were part and parcel of their original childhood abandonment." Paul Walker

I looked and the inner critic is identified as something negative just about everywhere. Only a few say that it could be helpful. So, if everyone has an inner critic and only the people that have had a traumatized childhood in one way or the other has this extremely negative one identified by Paul Walker, then what is a 'normal' persons inner critic like? Still, my question is, if it's negative, even to normal people, why should we show it compassion?

I understand the normal things, like not beating yourself up over a mistake you made or failing to meet a goal you set and giving yourself compassion and saying it's ok, you can try again, everyone makes mistakes, this doesn't have to be blown out of proportion I will be fine. When it gets to the self hate and derogatory statements directed at myself that I know are not true but have heard and believed for so long, it's like, pure evil. It's the best word I have for it at the moment. 

So, self esteem is kind of a result of believing or disbelieving the inner critic then? If it's what you think of yourself, overall, your personal view of your worth then it would be related right? I know that extremely deep down, I have value because I exist. Mostly, I have a view of self-disgust and hatred for never being 'enough' for anyone else. I think, if it was just based solely on my view, irrespective of others input about me, I would not feel the extreme negativity. Not that I think I'm great by any means, but, uh, acceptable at times... .

That makes self-compassion, for me, almost completely foreign. That little light inside me that believes I have worth is nurtured and shown compassion so it can grow and help me heal and be a better person. The issue would be that the inner critic keeps up a rhetoric of how awful and undeserving I am and has had precedence longer in my mind than the one that says I'm acceptable without any kind of act, deed or merit. Which, makes it difficult to accept and cultivate in those, like me, that have had traumatic childhoods. Sorry, I'm trying to work this out.

I apologize if the original intention of your thread has been deraild Heartandwhole. I hope that others will respond as Kwamina did with their beliefs and ideas. I will stay silent from now on. Thank you for the space to think more on this. 

Purekalm

[heartandwhole]

Heartandwhole,

I'm sorry, but it does not resonate with me on any level.    It's not difficult for me to see/acknowledge the dark and negative parts of myself but not to 'embrace' them. To me, it feels almost like nurturing that part and I won't do it.

I hear that it doesn't resonate, and that's absolutely fine. I can really understand not wanting to embrace, or even nurture, those parts. I wouldn't want to nurture them, either.

I see it like this. When my son acts out negatively or a dark/negative trait appears it's not ok. It's hard to explain well, but I'll try. He knows I love him and I'm not going to hate him for displaying an undesired emotion/action. There are never excuses, but there are reasons why. I won't cultivate an acceptance of bad behavior or nurture his negative mindset.

Yes. So even though your son is acting out and displaying negative behaviors, you love him and maybe you even feel compassion for him as a person? He is acting out for a reason, as you say.  

There is no excuse for him screaming at me or slamming doors but I understand he is upset because of the situation. After he calms down, or sometimes to help him calm down I hold him and sit next to him and talk to him about it.

That sounds compassionate to me. And very caring.

In the same way with myself, if I'm hearing that voice that pops up and tells me all these negative things about myself, how, or even why, should I accept it or show it compassion? It literally is not protecting me in any way. It is not warning me in any way.

You don't have to show that voice compassion. It has been suggested that these voices are a "fight" response to danger. That they are reflecting fear. When a child strikes out in fear, sometimes a response that would help is compassion. It doesn't mean the behavior is appropriate. I can see that giving compassion at such a time can look like positive reinforcement of the behavior, which is not what most people want.

I believe what you're describing is fear and self-preservation, not the critical inner voice.

For me, it's possible that the critical inner voice stems from something. It may be fear and self-preservation.

We may have to agree to disagree here.  

If I thought we were disagreeing, I'd be happy to do that.  

The goal of this thread wasn't, and isn't, about agreement. The goal for me is sharing, learning, and having exactly this kind of discussion.  

heartandwhole

[heartandwhole]

There are various ways of dealing with the inner critic and the best or most effective approach seems to depend on where we are at in our healing and on the intensity or form of the inner critic.

I think this is an excellent point, Kwamina, and I appreciate your sharing Pete Walker's ideas on this. Very helpful.

I apologize if the original intention of your thread has been deraild Heartandwhole. I hope that others will respond as Kwamina did with their beliefs and ideas. I will stay silent from now on. Thank you for the space to think more on this. 

The introduction compares self-esteem and self-compassion, so I can see why you think it might be derailed. I don't feel that it has been, because getting into the heart of what self-compassion is and how to practice it is an essential part of this subject. I'm learning a lot from your responses and hope that you will continue to contribute as much or as little as you like. 

heartandwhole

[purekalm]

Heartandwhole,

I hear that it doesn't resonate, and that's absolutely fine. I can really understand not wanting to embrace, or even nurture, those parts. I wouldn't want to nurture them, either.

I'm still completely lost on this part. I understand acknowledging they exist, the undesirable parts of myself and the ones that won't/don't add up for others. To me, that's separate than the critical voice though. I don't need the inner critic constantly on me for them, I know about them. I can and am learning to show compassion for them because that's what helps you heal, but the voice is separate from that and only judges harshly where I 'fall short'.

So even though your son is acting out and displaying negative behaviors, you love him and maybe you even feel compassion for him as a person?

That's what I mean here. Show him, as a person, compassion.  

You don't have to show that voice compassion. It has been suggested that these voices are a "fight" response to danger.

Hmmm... .then we must be talking about two different types of voices then, mine is pure hatred for me. A perfect example. The other day I set a goal in my mind to get some extra cleaning done, and it was a reasonable goal, nothing over the top. I ended up not feeling so great because my sugar was high and did nothing. Immediately the voice appears and the commentary is like this: "See? You'll never amount to anything. You're worthless. What a lazy, fat, piece of crap. If you can't even clean what do you expect to accomplish? You're a horrible mother. Your son deserves a clean house. You know your mom can't stand you because you are the way you are. Why do you even exist anyway? You're always in the way." Etc., etc. In that situation, there was no danger whatsoever. For me, either we're talking about two different voices or I'm just not connecting something. (confused)

I don't feel that it has been, because getting into the heart of what self-compassion is and how to practice it is an essential part of this subject. I'm learning a lot from your responses and hope that you will continue to contribute as much or as little as you like.  

I have an issue with always feeling like I'm in the way. I'm working on it. I'm learning a lot from yours as well. I love discussions for this reason. You get to see others points of view and learn new things.  

[heartandwhole]

Hi purekalm,

As Kwamina pointed out, there are various ways to deal with the inner critic. And I think the method depends on how entrenched and virulent it seems to be. I've done a bit of researching on it, too, and found a study that helped me understand more about this:

Working with the inner critic: Process features and pathways to change

It seems that we can see those inner critical voices as parts of ourselves, or we can externalize them as coming from "outside." I can see that showing those harsh and hateful voices compassion might not make any sense. And seeing them as trying to protect you even less logical. Again, I suspect a lot depends on how strong they operate in the identity structure of the person.

I wonder if it would make more sense to show yourself self-compassion instead of the voices? There is a part of you that hurts when the voices call you names and put you down. That part deserves your compassion, right? Kristin Neff might suggest putting a hand on your heart at that moment and telling yourself, "This is really hard. This hurts. And I'm here for you; I care."  It's like what you'd tell a good friend (or your son when he is acting out). We ALL have thoughts (voices) that we react to and bring us pain. That's our common humanity and very worth giving compassion to.  

There is another study about the therapeutic approach to the inner critic for which I couldn't get the entire text. But in the abstract, the conclusion was that the more entrenched the inner critic, the more the "friendly" approach worked. I thought that was a bit counterintuitive and interesting. It seems that the inner critic can be worked with so that it transforms more into an ally. Here is the abstract.

Working with the inner critic: Therapeutic approach
Nele Stinckens , Germain Lietaer & Mia Leijssen
Pages 141-156 | Received 04 Dec 2012, Accepted 04 Dec 2012, Published online: 05 Jul 2013
   
Abstract
The inner critic refers to a well-integrated system of critical and negative thoughts and attitudes of the self that interferes with the individual's organismic experiencing process. In a previous article published in the same issue (Working with the inner critic: Process features and pathways to change), we demonstrated that the critic exhibits during therapy through a variety of manifestations and different degrees of intensity. Several pathways to change need to take place in order for this process blockage to evolve in a more adaptive self-aspect. In this article we offer a differentiated look of what therapists can do in concrete terms in order to facilitate these pathways of change. A comprehensive and varied sample of therapy episodes in which the inner critic was salient, was analyzed in depth. The research demonstrated that a variety of strategies was used to encourage the inner critic into motion. A flexible approach, tailored to the nature and intensity of the inner critic, appeared to offer the best chance of success. A critic-friendly approach that is attuning to the critic's feelings and concerns and valorizing these appeared to be more beneficial when the critic manifested itself in a stubborn and intensive way. Where the critic presented a milder manifestation the critic could be more easily set aside at a distance or contact could be made with the suppressed organismic experience. Maintaining a uniform approach to the problem without any regard to the way in which the critic was gradually being expressed, appeared to delay the therapy process or even, in certain cases, to be counter-therapeutic, particularly where the critic was quite intense.



There is another approach that may not resonate but that I feel has been helpful for me. Keep in mind that my inner critic appears to be subtler than what you have described, and I have a background in yoga/meditation, etc.

So, the inner critic, or these inner voices, that tell me things are actually just thoughts that appear and eventually disappear. What makes them painful is believing them. What I'm simply saying is, if I don't believe the thoughts, there is no suffering. Here's an example. I'll externalize the critic as another person.

If someone walks up to me and says, "Heartandwhole, you're a purple Snuffelufaguss!" I feel no pain and I don't suffer, because I know it's not true. I don't believe in purple Snuffelugagusses and I know I'm not one.  

If someone says to me, "Heartandwhole, you are such a loser!" I might be hurt by the delivery, but being a loser is not something that resonates with me at all. I just don't believe it, so it probably wouldn't cause much suffering, if at all.

However, if someone says to me, "Heart, look at your past failed relationships. You don't have a partner now, either, even though you want one. There is something wrong with you!"  Ouch. That one gets me because a part of me believes that to be true. Or at least, is afraid that it is true.

The thing is, if we go back to the idea of the self-identity being composed of integrated and non-integrated parts, I can feel the panic in the voice that says there is something wrong with me. It's almost as if—like a scared child—it is saying, "You are vulnerable this way (having something wrong with you) and I don't want you to get hurt! DO something! Change, so that I can feel safe again!"  So, I don't necessarily feel attacked by this voice (I can see how it is trying to protect me), and I can feel compassion for both parts that are afraid and believe that "there is something wrong with me" might be true.

That's the "parts" method. There are other ways to deal with these thoughts which entail inquiring into who/what is believing them. No believer = no suffering. But that might be going a bit far for our discussion, and in my experience, the result of self-inquiry ends up being self-compassion anyway.

I welcome your, and everyone's, thoughts on this! Did you find the study contents helpful?

heartandwhole

[purekalm]

Heartandwhole,

I wonder if it would make more sense to show yourself self-compassion instead of the voices?

While difficult in practice, this is understandable.

What makes them painful is believing them. What I'm simply saying is, if I don't believe the thoughts, there is no suffering.

I can definitely see what you're saying here. I've figured the same thing out a long time ago. I used to not let hardly anything bother me as I was growing up. It was the continued outside pressure of others that eventually brought me down and I started to internalize the negativity as opposed to letting it bounce off like I had previously done.

An example could be with my appearance. I never cared. I put on whatever I felt like wearing and went about my day. The kids at school made fun of me but I didn't care, I liked what I wore even if they didn't. It was my sister's, mom and dad's continual stressing about if 'they looked good enough' that was asked and agonized over so often that it eventually became my own question. The result was no, so instead of trying to look perfect, and one other specific reason, I hid my body behind baggy clothes and my long hair trying desperately to be invisible. It was the people I care about making comments about themselves and me (being a tom boy and not as feminine as them) that I let in and eventually erode my view of my self. Today, I don't let it bother me because I am the way I am and it doesn't matter if it's up to some stranger's (or family) standards for me.

I had an experience at church once where I could have helped a woman be delivered of some nasty spirits and because I didn't know what voice was talking, even though I 'knew' my pastor was given the words and actions for her. (I don't believe we have the power in ourselves, it's God's power working in us.) I asked my pastor this question after I confirmed that she had said the exact same thing I was told to do... .Since I've lived in my head for so long I wasn't sure if it was God wanting me to help or evil trying to make me look like a fool. How do I know for sure?

She told me this, there's only ever three voices. God's, mine and evil. If I wouldn't have done it then it wasn't my own voice, and I wouldn't have because I like being in the background. Then she said that since it was to help someone and the enemy doesn't want anybody free or happy in any way it wasn't him. The only voice left was God's. This was still hard for me to grasp for a while because I was so afraid and full of anxiety still at that time.

So, with this, what is the inner critic? God would not berate me this way, an entity that absolutely hates me would and I also know that I don't feel this way about myself at all. I know I have faults, many of them, but I really don't hate myself for them.

There is a table from the info you posted on page 13 that describes the different types of inner critic and the voice I've believed as my own has been all of them at different points in my life. (I tried to get the info on here but I couldn't, I'm sorry.) Every single belief is all from the outside, not what I really believe at all. Without the outside influences I would actually have a more healthy and balanced view of myself. As I said before, I'm working on this now and what I'm realizing more and more is that I don't believe half the garbage that I thought I did and it all originated outside of my view as opposed to my actual view of myself. It's all related to the many ways the world wants you to stack up to a one size fits all standard. I definitely don't believe I'm better than anyone, but I don't believe I'm worse than anyone either. We're all human and equally fallible beings.

So, for me there are times when I'm 'under the influence' of the 'inner critic' and the phrases are repeated so often I start to believe them and get depressed and am a complete mess. Other times I'm walking and believing in the voice that loves me the way I am and lovingly corrects me and I feel so free and wonder why I would ever believe or even tolerate those horrible things that have been said.

"Guard your heart above all else, for it determines the course of your life." Proverbs 4:23 NLT

"For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." Romans 7:22-23 NKJV

"Finally brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy-meditate on these things." Philippians 4:8 NKJV

I think these three scriptures sum up what I'm trying to say. I know I haven't guarded my heart so well because I was a child at first but now I'm older and am learning. To me the 'inner critic' is only there to damage me. When I'm able to think clearly and see things for what they really are I have no issue and the 'inner critic' can't damage me with anything it tries to throw at me and make stick. I'm aware of all the wrong I've done and because of my memory I can remember pretty clearly how I've messed up. Only, when my true inner voice, who I really am, acknowledges all of this and is agreement with God instead of the 'critic' it's like I never had the issues with myself to begin with, because, well I didn't. None of us did in the beginning.  It's hard to explain. Basically, like you said, what am I agreeing with? The voice of hate or the voice of love?

rainfall

[heartandwhole]

So, for me there are times when I'm 'under the influence' of the 'inner critic' and the phrases are repeated so often I start to believe them and get depressed and am a complete mess. Other times I'm walking and believing in the voice that loves me the way I am and lovingly corrects me and I feel so free and wonder why I would ever believe or even tolerate those horrible things that have been said.

I think many of us can relate to what you say here. A barrage of criticism would definitely get to me and make me depressed. My critic seems to be more subtle, which doesn't mean it isn't having a significant negative influence on me. I think the question is how to cope with it, right? What helps, purekalm, during those times when the negative thoughts are so present?

"Finally brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy-meditate on these things." Philippians 4:8 NKJV

I like that quote. 

Basically, like you said, what am I agreeing with? The voice of hate or the voice of love?

Great question and great daily reminder!

heartandwhole






[/quote]

[purekalm]

Hello Heartandwhole,

My critic seems to be more subtle, which doesn't mean it isn't having a significant negative influence on me. I think the question is how to cope with it, right? What helps, purekalm, during those times when the negative thoughts are so present?

I believe subtle is usually worse. The initial barrage doesn't affect me, it's the ongoing ones that do. When it's subtle, it's more easy to agree with because of it's very nature and doesn't lift the impact whatsoever.   

I agree, it's how we cope and fight. I have always been a fighter with varying degrees of strength throughout my life. Sometimes I can barely lift a finger and others I'll knock it out before it finishes the first sentence. (I'm speaking figuratively here. I've only ever play fought with my siblings.  ) What helps me is to either immediately think of something else or fight back with scripture or questions. Depends on where I'm at that day. I know I'm not the low life that the critic says I am and it uses the world's standards to judge my worth. I refute that with what God says about me.

"If the world hates you, remember that it hated me first. The world would love you as one of it's own if you belonged to it, but you are no longer part of the world. I chose you to come out of the world so it hates you. Do you remember what I told you? 'A slave is not greater than the master.' Since they persecuted me, naturally they will persecute you." John 15:18- NLT

This applies to people as well as the spiritual realm. When I remember this, it comforts me and the voices can't stay. They have no place to stand unless I give them one.

Sometimes I ask questions and it kind of ends the same. Why? Why am I worthless? Who said? What standard am I being judged for this? Why does their opinion matter more than God's?

I like that quote. 

I do too. I'm currently trying to memorize it. I said before that I used to be an annoyingly positive person. No matter how dark the matter I always could shine a light on it and see it from a different point of view. However, I let everything get to me and I became the exact opposite. I only focused and felt the negative. While I'm glad that I got to experience it in a way so that I can relate with the deep suffering I've had to others, I think it's more than time I stop believing the lies and instead the truth that's been given to me. I don't have to force it because I truly do believe it. I know there are so many tragic things going on in the world, in my family, in my life, but it doesn't mean I have to focus on the negative aspects and can instead pray and actively do what positive things I can do. I've lived negative longer than positive now so sometimes it's still a struggle and it's easier/familiar to believe the lies, but I'm making sure to 'think about what I'm thinking about' as an old pastor once told me.

Purekalm

[Panda39]

  Sorry to be so late jumping back in... .


Self Compassion for me is making time for me and the things I do for me that create peace inside me.  When I'm being self compassionate I stop taking care of others for a while and spend time alone listening to music, making something... .being creative.  Doing something creative always puts me in the "now" not thinking about the past or worried about the future.  Being creative quiets my mind I just focus on the process of making something. Hiking is another thing I do it has much the same effect of creating peace.  I'm an introvert so these quiet times also restore my energy.

So self compassion for me is creating a window of time that is just mine and recharging. 

I tend to think a lot about what "I have to do" I'm not sure if my thoughts are obsessive or anxiety driven or both.  I am sure they come from my inner critic... .my critical mother.  The good news is that I do see it for what it is and have learned to accept myself for who I am and can forgive myself for not being (her kind of) perfect.  I can even forgive her, she is who she is and has her own reasons and experiences for being the way she is. 

Purekalm,  I can understand rejecting your inner critic when you don't believe what it says is true... .like what heartandwhole was talking about earlier.  I do the same thing I reject what I don't believe to be true.  It sounds like you have a tougher growing up than I did with a lot more negative messaging than I received so you have more to reject.  I reject the inner critic and replace that with self-love or self-compassion.  I don't believe that I'm stupid (inner critic) replaced I know I'm intelligent for example or I am only valued by how well I please someone else (inner critic), replaced with I'm a great person as I  am.  So you've rejected the inner critic but what are you using to fill the void?

Panda39

[heartandwhole]

Hi Panda39,

Thanks for jumping back in    I know what you mean about taking time for yourself. I am like that, too. I find that if I can't have regular quiet time for myself—to do something nurturing or creative—then I start to feel frazzled and disconnected.

What I'm learning is that there is a difference between lovingkindness-type actions/feelings and compassion. The difference is that lovingkindness can be practiced anytime with oneself and others, whereas compassion comes into the picture when someone is suffering. It's the desire to sympathize with and alleviate that suffering.

So self compassion for me is creating a window of time that is just mine and recharging. 

So, when you are hurting, how do you show yourself self-compassion, Panda? Do you immediately go and do something creative, or do you take a moment to feel your feelings, or something else?

heartandwhole

[Panda39]

So, when you are hurting, how do you show yourself self-compassion, Panda? Do you immediately go and do something creative, or do you take a moment to feel your feelings, or something else?

I think ultimately it's taking time for me, sometimes it's doing something creative, sometimes it's just living with the feelings, sometimes it's problem solving the issue, sometimes it's learning something from the situation or feelings, sometimes it's just forgiving myself, and sometimes it can be letting go of the feelings.  But for me it always starts with taking a break from my job, my son, my boyfriend, my chores/obligations and taking time for myself.  I am one of those caretaker types that so many of us here are, it's easy for me to be compassionate to others but I have to be more conscious and deliberate about focusing inward and taking care of myself. I can use (hide behind) my responsibilities to ignore myself so self-compassion is a deliberate act... .hopefully it will become more spontaneous or natural as I go along.

[purekalm]

Hi Panda39,

I'm glad you did. I like what you had to say. 

Doing something creative always puts me in the "now" not thinking about the past or worried about the future

I think  that was my problem too and also something pointed out by my therapist years ago. (I haven't seen one for years since her.) She asked me a few questions and concluded that my mind wanders often to the future or past and I have a problem living in the moment. She told me to watch my son or any other child because they live right now, whereas adults forget how to because of all our obligations and life in general.

When I'm being self compassionate I stop taking care of others for a while... .I'm an introvert so these quiet times also restore my energy.

I am too and that always helped me. My problem is I'm responsible for another life 24/7 without help even when his dad was here so it's extremely hard for me to get that time unless I lose sleep and someone else could still be up. I've always loved my space and I think that was also what helped me fall so quickly is I lost it all of a sudden when my son was born. I'm not upset at him over it, just in case it came out that way. I was upset with his dad for not being one. I try to take that time now, but it's still difficult.

So you've rejected the inner critic but what are you using to fill the void?

Well, I'm using the truth of God's word to fill up the empty spaces. I'm taking time out early in the morning to spend time with God and have some quiet time before my son wakes up. I have been spending that time for a while most days already, but realizing that I was just believing lies that were not my own really helped. I really thought I felt that awful about myself and I don't.

It sounds like you have a tougher growing up than I did with a lot more negative messaging than I received so you have more to reject.

I think that all suffering is awful, no matter if someone suffers more or less. For the longest time I believed the lie that although it was bad it wasn't that bad because that's what my parents would tell us all the time. They would compare our situation to others to make us look like ungrateful brats when in reality, we had it pretty tough. I think I was abandoned more than anything. My mom would tell me that because I was a tomboy and getting a bunch of scars that no man would ever want me. I was still a child at this time and she doesn't remember saying it.

Mostly though, because I was the good kid they didn't have time for me unless they needed to unload or wanted me on their side against the other in an argument or to talk my dad out of suicide over the phone. I'll never forget my mom handing me the phone. My dad's legs were in such pain sometimes because of his disease in them that he'd scream out for someone to get him a knife so he could cut them off. Crazy stuff. I internalized that I would never be good enough because nothing I did ever caught their attention or my dad would rave about his family saying 'how beautiful his girls are' and that helped with the appearance issue. So at fifteen, I couldn't take it anymore and stopped fighting the negativity and let it all come rushing in. It's time to kick it out and I thank Heartandwhole for starting this thread because it got me thinking again about what I really believe as opposed to what I thought I did.

I am one of those caretaker types that so many of us here are, it's easy for me to be compassionate to others but I have to be more conscious and deliberate about focusing inward and taking care of myself.

I am the same, also working on changing it. It's so easy to take care of others but difficult to turn that compassion on yourself. I'm glad you do though. It really helps.   

Someone once told me about how on an airplane they specifically tell mothers (I don't know if they still do) to put a mask on their child first if the situation warrants the masks to come down and then their child. I was so angry I couldn't think straight. But, that's her child! How could she NOT help him/her first? Then I got the rest of it and it took me a while but I understood. They tell them that because if they put one on their child first she could pass out before she could get hers on and therefore leaver her child awake and alert on a crashing plane with her child passed out and witnessing it all happen without knowing what to do.

When I got that image firmly in my head I cried and understood why. Truly,  if we don't help ourselves first our children will see us crash and burn while being in danger themselves and knowing the one they trust the most can't even help them. Obviously, I related it to my own life and son and I don't want him to see me like that anymore. It's hard, but I don't want him to live anywhere near the life I did, so I have to keep fighting for myself. 

Purekalm

[Kwamina]

Hi all

It was the continued outside pressure of others that eventually brought me down and I started to internalize the negativity as opposed to letting it bounce off like I had previously done.

So at fifteen, I couldn't take it anymore and stopped fighting the negativity and let it all come rushing in.

I can very much relate to what purekalm says here. I too clearly remember how despite of the negativity surrounding me, I was still able to maintain a positive view of myself because that positive inner parrot voice was stronger and louder than those negative external voices. However, as my mother isolated me more and more and her behavior became more controlling and abusive, I felt how my inner defenses were coming under increasing pressure. I was already on the brink when I entered highschool in the sense that the positive inner voice was barely able to speak louder than my family's negative voices. Then in highschool I experienced severe bullying and combined with the negativity at home, that just was too much for me. I was 12 and I clearly remember sitting on the couch one day and it felt like a switch had turned inside of me. The wall of inner defenses had come down altogether all at once and that's when depression really set in. Looking back I now realize the problem was that I had started to take the outside negativity personally and started to look down on myself as a result of that and so the inner critic was born. Also, isolating a child is like depriving a child's soul of oxygen and that's how I often felt, like I was suffocating or drowning. Good thing I'm a parrot though, in the end I just took to the skies and flew away  It took many draining years to reach that point though.

[purekalm]

Hello Kwamina,

I can very much relate to what purekalm says here. I too clearly remember how despite of the negativity surrounding me, I was still able to maintain a positive view of myself because that positive inner parrot voice was stronger and louder than those negative external voices.

You too? I wasn't sure if I explained it well enough for anyone to understand or if anyone experienced how I felt.

However, as my mother isolated me more and more and her behavior became more controlling and abusive, I felt how my inner defenses were coming under increasing pressure.

I never really thought too much on the isolation part before because I (and my siblings) were forced to go to church until my grandparents died, we went over my dad's parent's house all the time and we went to school. But, we weren't allowed to talk to anybody at the grandparent's houses. We had to say hello and then go back outside or sit and not do anything. At church, we had to be quiet and sit for the service and not allowed to talk to pass notes or anything because it was disrespectful. At school, we were made fun of because we were poor and we had no friends outside of seeing them at school because they weren't allowed over and we weren't allowed to visit them either. We had to make excuses and so never really got to get too close to anyone and of course mentioning our lives was expressly forbidden lest we be taken away. "No one will take in four kids. Who knows where you'll end up? You think you have it bad now, just wait and see." Without realizing it, we were pretty isolated. Bizarre.

Good thing I'm a parrot though, in the end I just took to the skies and flew away wink It took many draining years to reach that point though.

Yes, very good thing! Too bad I'm not a parrot. Though I know my wings are growing and I will fly someday. 

Purekalm

[joeramabeme]

What an awesome thread, thanks Heart and Whole, this moves all of us who have been affected regardless of what type of connection we had.

Today at work, I returned from lunch to see a business card from my therapist sitting on my chair.  It was a reminder of a March dated appointment. I was suddenly embarrassed, someone must have known it was mine.  Then I was angry and thought someone had found it months earlier and only now placed it on my chair to tell me they know about me.  I quickly put it in my wallet.

Then a voice came and said, so what; you go to therapy, I like it.  I took the card out of my wallet and left it on the desk for anyone who walked by to see.  At the end of the day I threw it in my trash can.  Nothing to worry about. 

My self-esteem said you don't want others to know this lest they think less of me and my self-compassion said, this is who I am.  Not that I want others at work to know I go to therapy, but if they do, so be it.

Self-Compassion was a foreign term before, I am slowly learning what it means.  I am good person as I am.

Great thread!

[heartandwhole]

Then a voice came and said, so what; you go to therapy, I like it.  I took the card out of my wallet and left it on the desk for anyone who walked by to see.  At the end of the day I threw it in my trash can.  Nothing to worry about.

YES! You go, Joe   This is inspiring. I feel the same about therapy—yawn, so what if others know. I take care of my mental health. Perhaps they don't, or have a different way. Vive la différence !

My self-esteem said you don't want others to know this lest they think less of me and my self-compassion said, this is who I am.  Not that I want others at work to know I go to therapy, but if they do, so be it.

Yep. Your self-esteem took a hit, but your self-compassion kicked in.

In that situation, if I was able to access self-compassion, my thoughts might have been, "Ugh, how embarrassing. I feel exposed and like people are probably judging me. I want to crawl under my desk right now. This feels pretty bad... .Oh well, I'm human and lots of people go to therapy. There is nothing wrong with it. In fact, it's helping me. It's okay to feel vulnerable right now; it's uncomfortable, but I'm doing something good for myself and there is a lot of goodness in me."

In a very vulnerable moment, we can't always count on our self-esteem to be there for us, but the more we practice self-compassion, the more it will be there when we most need our own warmth and care. And what I seem to be noticing, as I mentioned in the introduction post, is that the more self-compassion is available to me, the less I "rely" on self-esteem. It's there, and it's a very good thing. But self-esteem (being often very connected with accomplishment and external rewards) can't always carry me through these kinds of moments, like self-compassion can.  

I am good person as I am.

Yes you are.     And no matter how unskillfully we sometimes behave or think, we have our common humanity to fall back on, and an inner tenderness and acceptance that I believe is always present, albeit sometimes hard to find.

Thanks for posting, joeramabeme, and sharing your example of what we're talking about here.

heartandwhole

[Kwamina]

Kristin Neff also has written about some very interesting exercises, one of them is called 'The criticizer, the criticized, and the compassionate observer'', here's a short excerpt:

"This exercise is modeled on the two-chair dialogue studied by Gestalt therapist Leslie Greenberg.
 
In this exercise, you will sit in different chairs to help get in touch with different, often conflicting parts of yourself, experiencing how each aspect feels in the present moment.

To begin, put out three empty chairs, preferably in a triangular arrangement. Next, think about an issue that often troubles you, and that often elicits harsh self-criticism. Designate one chair as the voice of your inner self-critic, one chair as the voice of the part of you that feels judged and criticized, and one chair as the voice of a wise, compassionate observer. You are going to be role-playing all three parts of yourself – you, you, and you. It may feel a bit silly at first, but you may be surprised at what comes out once you really start letting your feelings flow freely."

It's kind of like staging an internal intervention

[heartandwhole]

It's kind of like staging an internal intervention

Or musical chairs with your selves 

Interesting, thank you for sharing that, Board Parrot. Have you tried it? Anyone?

It reminds me of an exercise in the book The Journey from Abandonment to Healing, by Susan Anderson, in which you dialog on paper with your "little one" (child self). I did it several times and found it surprisingly helpful.

heartandwhole

[Kwamina]

Nope, I have not tried this exercise myself but I came across it while reading her book on self-compassion.

I do have experience with doing inner child work though, like many of us on Coping & Healing.