What I've learnt so far - The problem isn't my ex - It's me

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I met my exBPD married lover 14 years ago. We spent 8 of those years together in a 'relationship.' Truth be told it wasn't much of a relationship because she was push/pulling me from the start and giving me the Silent Treatment all the way through. I don't believe she is fully fledged BPD but BPD traits because the rages weren't present, with me anyway. In every other way she is a classic BPD, although to be fair to her, I have no idea if she ever cheated on me. Though it felt like she did because she was married and she took a year out from our relationship and I know she was at a concert in London (my home town) with another man.

Anybody who knows me would think that I am simply not the kind of man to allow a woman to do that. I appear to be confident, high self esteem and a loyal sort of man. So why did I let her in and allow her to steal 8 years of my life? The answer is because I have been in denial about who I really am. A friend of mine said to me in my 20's (I am 54 now) 'The trouble with you Romantic Fool is that you want to be in love but you won't let anybody in. You keep pushing them away.' How astute an observation that was and yet the reason I behaved in that way was fear of abandonment and/or fear of engulfment.

I have learnt on here that under stress, I have empathy impairment and the way I have behaved towards my exBPD married lover has triggered her issues further. I also have extreme co-dependency issues and am a love and sex addict. When my exBPD told me that she couldn't see me anymore because her husband had found out about us, instead of being empathic to her feelings, I denounced her as a liar and pushed her away. In fact in the 8 years of the relationship, despite being so deeply in love I thought my heart would break if I couldn't be with her, I was constantly threatening to walk away. I behaved this way because I have anger issues myself. I have issues in my family background (absent father - domineering mother - parental dysfunction - inconsistent nurturing - tension and constant arguing in the parental relationship) that I believe make me susceptible to being in a relationship with a BPD and NPD; namely that I have those traits myself. Also because she has BPD traits, she was constantly triggering me (particularly my abandonment fears) and I was doing the same to her. The most revealing thing I have learnt on here is this:

Murray Bowen (Bowen Institute) says we mate with our emotional equal - not mirror image, but equal. Most of us have something going on. It could be simple depression, self esteem issues, co-dependence, narcissistic, poor attachment skills, etc.

Most of our partners are "pre-clinical" so the same can be said about us. The chance of recovery is good if we face it and work it

My work here is to be honest with myself. I have done the push/pull cycle in the past with girlfriends. I have been prone to rages. I have cheated. I have recycled (attempted to anyway - most of them weren't having it). I have had feelings of emptiness my whole life. I always feel lonely. I feel unsettled in my current relationship. I have issues around addiction (alcohol, sex, love, food, sugar, caffeine). I have some dysregulation some of the time in the following areas:

1. Emotion Dysregulation: Emotion dysregulation means not managing your emotions in context. It happens when you must reduce or escape your emotions by not managing them, without regard to consequences. Emotional dysregulation can be rage, anxiety, depression, and not feeling validated.  

2. Interpersonal Dysregulation: Interpersonal dysregulation is indicated by chaotic relationships and fears of abandonment.

3. Self Dysregulation: Self dysregulation means an unstable sense of self and a sense of emptiness.

4. Behavioral Dysregulation: Behavioral dysregulation is characterized by self-injury and impulsive behaviors (such as substance abuse and promiscuity).

5. Cognitive Dysregulation: Cognitive dysregulation is indicated by paranoia and dissociative responses that are made worse by stressful situations.  

Dysregulation in any of these areas occurs when a person with BPD is out of control, not simply upset. Through the skills learned in Dialectical Behavior Therapy, you can learn to better control all of these areas by taking a step back, being more mindful, analyzing what works, and acquiring new behaviours.

If you met me you would never be aware of any of this. I am charming, polite easy to talk to and most of the time empathic when relaxed. I spoke to one of my friends yesterday who has been in a relationship with a fully fledged BPD and a fully fledged Narcissist and he tells me that I am nothing like them. But my own particular behaviour is well controlled most of the time. It seems to come out under extreme duress mostly in relationships. This is a spectrum disorder and I am sure I would be on the lower part of the spectrum for BPD and/or NPD traits but like most of us here, at a sub clinical level ie I would not be diagnosed.

I read the article on here about how a borderline relationship evolves: https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

This article describes my exBPD married lover perfectly. Guess what? It also describes how I have behaved in relationships too. I have definitely done the seducer phase and the clinger phase - it was harder to see if I have ever behaved in the hate phase. I think I have. What's more I think I have behaved that way with my exBPD married lover because I have been in so much pain caused by her not committing to me.  I have devalued her (I told her she was not a complicated person or in any way profound but a classic presentation of a Borderline).

As I have said on here - I feel like Harrison Ford in the film Blade Runner when he discovers he is a Replicant.

Having said that, anybody who has ever come into contact with a fully fledged Borderline or Narcissist ie clinically diagnosed would dismiss me as an imposter. However, I am in AA but I am not a park bench drinker. There are degrees to everything.

I could easily be in denial about all of these traits and go on with my life. But I have felt emotional pain my whole life. I have had feelings of emptiness and loneliness my whole life. I have done the push/pull thing with past girlfriends. I cheated on my ex who wanted to marry me and she said, 'You don't want me but you don't want anyone else to have me.' That wasn't true, I wanted her desperately. I spent 10 years regretting that decision. So why did I cheat on her? Because she was controlling and told me that many men would find her attractive - unwittingly triggering my abandonment fears. Then she would shower me with love, unwittingly triggering my engulfment fears. I suffer from low level depression 'dysphoria' and have a skewed view of the world at times ie it is a hostile place. I have low self esteem and arrogance coexisting simultaneously. I think I am special and different and at times hate myself.

This in no way lessens my pain or absolves my exBPD married lover from the way she has behaved at times, but it does show I had a part to play in it and have certainly triggered her. It also explains why she is probably blaming me and I am blaming her. I do think I am able to sustain love in a way that she isn't - but even that - how would I know for sure unless I actually spent long periods of time with her? I have spent 8 years chasing her so I haven't had a chance to find out if I would have pushed her away like I have many of my past exes. Yet I feel like a victim because I have been dumped so many times. I have gone from relationship to relationship, rarely having a period of time on my own.

I was angry and indignant about the way my ex treated me when I first came here just over a week ago. I was challenged by the moderators on this site and I became even more indignant and yet I listened because I know deep down that something is not right with me. I got married at the age of 47. I have never had kids. I used to joke that I am commitment phobic and that I didn't want the responsibility of kids. Those were just my abandonment and engulfment fears at play. I feel so sad that I have struggled my whole life and not been aware of any of this. I am in a profession where many people have these issues and so within that world of narcissists, I look quite tame by comparison.

I am in the right place to get the help I need. Has anybody else made this discovery about themselves?

[RomanticFool]

I met my exBPD married lover 14 years ago. We spent 8 of those years together in a 'relationship.' Truth be told it wasn't much of a relationship because she was push/pulling me from the start and giving me the Silent Treatment all the way through. I don't believe she is fully fledged BPD but BPD traits because the rages weren't present, with me anyway. In every other way she is a classic BPD, although to be fair to her, I have no idea if she ever cheated on me. Though it felt like she did because she was married and she took a year out from our relationship and I know she was at a concert in London (my home town) with another man.

Anybody who knows me would think that I am simply not the kind of man to allow a woman to do that. I appear to be confident, high self esteem and a loyal sort of man. So why did I let her in and allow her to steal 8 years of my life? The answer is because I have been in denial about who I really am. A friend of mine said to me in my 20's (I am 54 now) 'The trouble with you Romantic Fool is that you want to be in love but you won't let anybody in. You keep pushing them away.' How astute an observation that was and yet the reason I behaved in that way was fear of abandonment and/or fear of engulfment.

I have learnt on here that under stress, I have empathy impairment and the way I have behaved towards my exBPD married lover has triggered her issues further. I also have extreme co-dependency issues and am a love and sex addict. When my exBPD told me that she couldn't see me anymore because her husband had found out about us, instead of being empathic to her feelings, I denounced her as a liar and pushed her away. In fact in the 8 years of the relationship, despite being so deeply in love I thought my heart would break if I couldn't be with her, I was constantly threatening to walk away. I behaved this way because I have anger issues myself. I have issues in my family background (absent father - domineering mother - parental dysfunction - inconsistent nurturing - tension and constant arguing in the parental relationship) that I believe make me susceptible to being in a relationship with a BPD and NPD; namely that I have those traits myself. Also because she has BPD traits, she was constantly triggering me (particularly my abandonment fears) and I was doing the same to her. The most revealing thing I have learnt on here is this:

Murray Bowen (Bowen Institute) says we mate with our emotional equal - not mirror image, but equal. Most of us have something going on. It could be simple depression, self esteem issues, co-dependence, narcissistic, poor attachment skills, etc.

Most of our partners are "pre-clinical" so the same can be said about us. The chance of recovery is good if we face it and work it

My work here is to be honest with myself. I have done the push/pull cycle in the past with girlfriends. I have been prone to rages. I have cheated. I have recycled (attempted to anyway - most of them weren't having it). I have had feelings of emptiness my whole life. I always feel lonely. I feel unsettled in my current relationship. I have issues around addiction (alcohol, sex, love, food, sugar, caffeine). I have some dysregulation some of the time in the following areas:

1. Emotion Dysregulation: Emotion dysregulation means not managing your emotions in context. It happens when you must reduce or escape your emotions by not managing them, without regard to consequences. Emotional dysregulation can be rage, anxiety, depression, and not feeling validated.  

2. Interpersonal Dysregulation: Interpersonal dysregulation is indicated by chaotic relationships and fears of abandonment.

3. Self Dysregulation: Self dysregulation means an unstable sense of self and a sense of emptiness.

4. Behavioral Dysregulation: Behavioral dysregulation is characterized by self-injury and impulsive behaviors (such as substance abuse and promiscuity).

5. Cognitive Dysregulation: Cognitive dysregulation is indicated by paranoia and dissociative responses that are made worse by stressful situations.  

Dysregulation in any of these areas occurs when a person with BPD is out of control, not simply upset. Through the skills learned in Dialectical Behavior Therapy, you can learn to better control all of these areas by taking a step back, being more mindful, analyzing what works, and acquiring new behaviours.

If you met me you would never be aware of any of this. I am charming, polite easy to talk to and most of the time empathic when relaxed. I spoke to one of my friends yesterday who has been in a relationship with a fully fledged BPD and a fully fledged Narcissist and he tells me that I am nothing like them. But my own particular behaviour is well controlled most of the time. It seems to come out under extreme duress mostly in relationships. This is a spectrum disorder and I am sure I would be on the lower part of the spectrum for BPD and/or NPD traits but like most of us here, at a sub clinical level ie I would not be diagnosed.

I read the article on here about how a borderline relationship evolves: https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

This article describes my exBPD married lover perfectly. Guess what? It also describes how I have behaved in relationships too. I have definitely done the seducer phase and the clinger phase - it was harder to see if I have ever behaved in the hate phase. I think I have. What's more I think I have behaved that way with my exBPD married lover because I have been in so much pain caused by her not committing to me.  I have devalued her (I told her she was not a complicated person or in any way profound but a classic presentation of a Borderline).

As I have said on here - I feel like Harrison Ford in the film Blade Runner when he discovers he is a Replicant.

Having said that, anybody who has ever come into contact with a fully fledged Borderline or Narcissist ie clinically diagnosed would dismiss me as an imposter. However, I am in AA but I am not a park bench drinker. There are degrees to everything.

I could easily be in denial about all of these traits and go on with my life. But I have felt emotional pain my whole life. I have had feelings of emptiness and loneliness my whole life. I have done the push/pull thing with past girlfriends. I cheated on my ex who wanted to marry me and she said, 'You don't want me but you don't want anyone else to have me.' That wasn't true, I wanted her desperately. I spent 10 years regretting that decision. So why did I cheat on her? Because she was controlling and told me that many men would find her attractive - unwittingly triggering my abandonment fears. Then she would shower me with love, unwittingly triggering my engulfment fears. I suffer from low level depression 'dysphoria' and have a skewed view of the world at times ie it is a hostile place. I have low self esteem and arrogance coexisting simultaneously. I think I am special and different and at times hate myself.

This in no way lessens my pain or absolves my exBPD married lover from the way she has behaved at times, but it does show I had a part to play in it and have certainly triggered her. It also explains why she is probably blaming me and I am blaming her. I do think I am able to sustain love in a way that she isn't - but even that - how would I know for sure unless I actually spent long periods of time with her? I have spent 8 years chasing her so I haven't had a chance to find out if I would have pushed her away like I have many of my past exes. Yet I feel like a victim because I have been dumped so many times. I have gone from relationship to relationship, rarely having a period of time on my own.

I was angry and indignant about the way my ex treated me when I first came here just over a week ago. I was challenged by the moderators on this site and I became even more indignant and yet I listened because I know deep down that something is not right with me. I got married at the age of 47. I have never had kids. I used to joke that I am commitment phobic and that I didn't want the responsibility of kids. Those were just my abandonment and engulfment fears at play. I feel so sad that I have struggled my whole life and not been aware of any of this. I am in a profession where many people have these issues and so within that world of narcissists, I look quite tame by comparison.

I am in the right place to get the help I need. Has anybody else made this discovery about themselves?

[roberto516]

I went from both extremes. I still do. In the beginning I was so hurt, and I couldn't stop focusing on what I did wrong. Then it turned to complete blame on her. Now I realize we both played a part. That has grown into me looking at the part I played solely as a way to learn; not as a way to ever be in that relationship again. If that all makes sense?

I made changes from this relationship to the one before. Many of them for the better. But I have to find out why I turned away a lot of really good girls during that interim, and fell head over heels for the exact same person as my first BPD relationship.

I wouldn't say the problem is me. I like to think that I have coping mechanisms, and thought patterns which, although they served me well in the past, aren't necessarily helping me anymore. It will be a fun journey.

[RomanticFool]

Hey Roberto,

I went from both extremes. I still do. In the beginning I was so hurt, and I couldn't stop focusing on what I did wrong. Then it turned to complete blame on her. Now I realize we both played a part

That is precisely my journey. It has taken me a relatively short amount of time to get there intellectually because I have been sober in AA for 14 years. The test for me is whether I am really there yet emotionally. That will take longer because she is like the sweetest nectar from the Gods - sent by Hecate to rip out my soul. The very definition of bitter-sweet.

That has grown into me looking at the part I played solely as a way to learn; not as a way to ever be in that relationship again. If that all makes sense?

It makes perfect sense.  I ask myself that question every day. Are you just trying to be more successful at keeping hold of her next time round? I don't think that is what I am doing because I really don't think there will be a next time. She took 5 years to come back to me last time. I don't think she is classic BPD in that respect. I suspect she has decided/accepted that it is over.

Having said that, I am faltering a little today. It does cross my mind to contact her and tell her all I have learnt here, but where is that going to go? Despite my neediness over this woman, I have tended to endure the pain rather than try to recycle as I have aged. I learnt during my youth that once women make their minds up to end a relationship, they tend to stick with it. OK I know BPDs are different but my ex has traits not fully blown BPD and all of my instincts are screaming out to me that she is communicating with somebody else. I don't know if this is cognitive dysregulation (paranoia) but I don't think so, I usually have good instincts. So why would I go back and subject myself to that hell? I hope I don't.

I made changes from this relationship to the one before. Many of them for the better. But I have to find out why I turned away a lot of really good girls during that interim, and fell head over heels for the exact same person as my first BPD relationship.

Do any of the points in this thread ring true for you?

I wouldn't say the problem is me. I like to think that I have coping mechanisms, and thought patterns which, although they served me well in the past, aren't necessarily helping me anymore. It will be a fun journey.

I say the problem is me because I let this woman in. A normal healthy person on finding out she was married would have done a 180 and left the pub. Ok if they had travelled 100 miles they may have slept with her but I know people who have an absolute boundary about getting involved in this type of situation.

I was single then. I had the world at my feet. I knew she was trouble. She looked and sounded like trouble. Guess what? I WAS RIGHT, DAMN IT. What I didn't know back then is that I was also trouble. This is why I say I am the problem. I loved trouble back then. Life was an adventure ride and this was one merry go round I wanted to get on because physically and psychologically she was everything I'd been looking for. Unfortunately, I didn't know then that is/was because of all of the above. MY BAD. Now I am paying the price. Err in haste, repent at leisure. Ouch, ouch, ouch.

[Pretty Woman]

This is a great post!

So do you think you went for her, a married woman because you wouldn't have to be "fully committed" to her because she was also in another relationship? I think that dynamic is present in a lot of relationships, not just BPD ones. I know myself likely has some "traits" of BPD. I push/pull people and I know in the past I would do it to see how far I could push someone into breaking up with me.
?

Granted, I did this in my 20's (I am in my 40's) but then when I would get dumped I played the victim, and I got a lot of attention. It was "woe is me" and I almost thrived off of being hurt. Being dumped and FEELING that sadness was in my mind what others would feel when they are in love.

And clearly that is VERY unhealthy.

It's so interesting. I feel a lot like you in some ways. I will say this... .don't put the full blame on yourself. It takes two to create a toxic situation. Just because you are realizing you have things to work on, which is VERY healthy btw, you are very self-aware, that doesn't mean she gets off scot-free. You are not fully at fault here.

Try to look at this as an experience and not a relationship. No one fails at an experience. They happen and we grow from them.

Please note: Not everyone grows from their BPD relationships but the people who put in the hard work, are able to see their part in the "toxic tango", those individuals that work to become mentally and emotionally stronger have a greater chance of becoming all the better for going through it.

Keep learning about yourself and striving to be better. You have "0" control over your ex. What has happened has happened. But you do have control over yourself. You are very aware of your role in this which tells me you are a lot farther in the process than most.

Keep posting and keep working on YOU. You got this.

 

[RomanticFool]

Hi Pretty Woman,

Thanks for the reply. I agree with everything you said, which is unusual for me  

So do you think you went for her, a married woman because you wouldn't have to be "fully committed" to her because she was also in another relationship? I think that dynamic is present in a lot of relationships, not just BPD ones. I know myself likely has some "traits" of BPD. I push/pull people and I know in the past I would do it to see how far I could push someone into breaking up with me.

Not in any conscious way. Subconsciously, who knows. I didn't know she was married when I met her 14 years ago. She lied to me. But I fancied the pants off her. She is a very sexy woman and the waif like vulnerability was just too much to resist. She had me at hello!

I knew nothing about BPD back then. I thought her distancing was because she was married. I feel sorry for my younger self. She had me for breakfast emotionally. She is 7 years older and that made a difference back then. I was smitten by her in every way. Still am actually.

Granted, I did this in my 20's (I am in my 40's) but then when I would get dumped I played the victim, and I got a lot of attention. It was "woe is me" and I almost thrived off of being hurt. Being dumped and FEELING that sadness was in my mind what others would feel when they are in love.

And clearly that is VERY unhealthy.

I totally relate to this. Did it with every single girlfriend and when they eventually did push me away I was devastated. I have nothing but sympathy for my younger self.

It's so interesting. I feel a lot like you in some ways. I will say this... .don't put the full blame on yourself. It takes two to create a toxic situation. Just because you are realizing you have things to work on, which is VERY healthy btw, you are very self-aware, that doesn't mean she gets off scot-free. You are not fully at fault here.

Try to look at this as an experience and not a relationship. No one fails at an experience. They happen and we grow from them.

I don't blame myself to be honest, because I have never lied to her about anything. I think she is the only person I can really say that to. Whereas she lies with impunity and withholds. The point is though, I am looking at why I didn't walk away. I was younger and smitten and any man on this planet would sleep with her. It was too good to be true really for my emotional vulnerability to handle. She hated my anger which was born out of pain. It was skewed from the beginning and I suspect she stayed in it because she is comfortable in dysfunction. Probably the same for me. It reinforced to me that I didn't deserve her. Very sad.

I don't regret meeting her but I do regret the recycle. I knew what she was the first time around I just didn't know why. I guess she has led me here so that is no bad thing but the pain has been unbearable at times.

Please note: Not everyone grows from their BPD relationships but the people who put in the hard work, are able to see their part in the "toxic tango", those individuals that work to become mentally and emotionally stronger have a greater chance of becoming all the better for going through it.

Keep learning about yourself and striving to be better. You have "0" control over your ex. What has happened has happened. But you do have control over yourself. You are very aware of your role in this which tells me you are a lot farther in the process than most.

Keep posting and keep working on YOU. You got this

I'm in AA and used to working on myself. I have learned that when the pain gets bad enough I will do the work required, Self awareness is important but action is the key. I must work on my emotional dysregulation and practise empathy. Those two issues had led me here. If I had been able to talk more calmly to her, I believe she would have revealed early on that there was no real future for us and with a calmer head I may have stayed away. I doubt it because I am addicted to her but all of the emotion just gives one no chance at all, We got into an abuse cycle which I contributed to. However, her ST was worse than anything I did and she knew exactly what she was doing. Though to be fair, the ST was probably triggered by my threats and her abandonment and engulfment fears. At times she had Queen and Witch tendencies. In the seduction phase she was a waif and a hermit.

Thank you. I shall try to take better care of my heart.

[once removed]

i really want to commend you for having the guts to face this stuff, RomanticFool. its really not easy to stand up and say "i have been the problem, but i possess the solution." i do believe that its the ticket to both growth, and freedom, the final stage of detachment.

i looked at all of my past failed relationships, and saw that they were messy, immature, and resulted in great pain for me, that all seemed to perpetuate continuing to repeating the same patterns. i think that by the time my relationship with my uBPDex ended, i was either ready, or the reality was simply too glaring to ignore, that i was the common denominator, and only i had the power to affect changes, to take responsibility and control over my life, to gain some insights, tools, and skills along the way, and in turn go onto happier, healthier relationships. maybe id have been open to reality sooner, but i have doubts that i could have truly seen it.

I like to think that I have coping mechanisms, and thought patterns which, although they served me well in the past, aren't necessarily helping me anymore.

i think this is a good point, and its why its not only sometimes scary, but genuinely difficult to see. our patterns have served us, even if in dysfunctional ways.

My work here is to be honest with myself.

and this is good work. facing the facts. its what healing is about.

[RomanticFool]

Thanks Once Removed,

It's easier for me than others on here because I have been in AA for 14 years. I know through doing Step 4 that I am the problem. What was difficult on here was to separate my own dysfunction from myExBPDs.

In the end it changes little because we were having an affair. There was never going to be a good outcome for me. She was never leaving her husband. I could have been the most empathic person in the world and she would have behaved in similar fashion. She may not have distanced quite as much and once she went into the 'hate' phase, she may have tried to keep in contact a little harder. But I doubt it. She was true to her pathology, just as I was true to mine.

I also very much doubt that all of this work will stop me being seduced by a beautiful woman when I am aching for love and intimacy. However, what it might do is make me think twice about having a 8 year on and off affair with her. I am much more likely to walk away from a relationship and that will save me years and years of agony. That is why I am doing it. Maybe next time, I won't confuse sex with love and create an entire fantasy world based on my hopes and self will. I might examine the reality and see it for what it is, a tortuous affair starring two sick puppies.

Today has been a tricky day. I feel very much like this song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_G4JNMURj4