Some help staying strong, please

[chillamom]

Hello, I am having a very hard time resisting the constant contact of my diagnosed exBPD/NPDbf.  I broke up with him in December for the umpteenth time, and he has been charming me hard literally every day since then, alternating between guilt-inducing pleas to "help him" and angry, abusive messages about what a lying, manipulative, uncaring, awful person I am when the pleas don't work.  I have seen him three times since the breakup and he has been terribly tearful (twice) and relatively normal (once). The obvious solution is to go NC, but I still after many months have probably too much empathy for what NC would feel like on his end, so I essentially subject myself to hours and hours of texts, Facebook messages and phone calls every day, until it gets to be too much and I temporarily block him.

I am ashamed to admit I've been on this board since 2014.  Our relationship began in 2008, so all told over 8 years together.  I saw red flags from the start, but ignored them thinking, like many, that all he needed was "love" and he'd be fine... .and I have a doctorate in psychology; so much for knowledge (I'm not a clinician, which maybe absolves me? No.).  Anyway, he was verbally and emotionally abusive throughout the relationship, after years I tended to match his anger because I would react very strongly to the insults and curses thrown at me and my children.  He lived with me for about a year back in 2011, and then his behavior became too much for my 3 daughters to deal with, and I told him we could only see each other when they weren't around.  So, for years he basically "lived" here when my kids were at their dads.  He basically blames my kids for the relationship being over.  Oh, and he is MUCH younger than me (he's 31, I'm 59.  Yeah, I know... .).

Anyway, I need some assurance that I'm on the right path, and maybe a boost to finally encourage NC?  The stress from his constant contact has caused an autoimmune disorder I have to flare time and time again, and I am in severe pain right now (doesn't help the mood). I do have a good friendship support network; none of my friends can stand him. HE literally has no friends, and I'm sure I am terribly triggering his abandonment issues (he IS diagnosed BPD/NPD) so it breaks my heart, but he is KILLING me.  My kids are actually afraid he WILL kill me, and my T (who met him once) says she believes he's capable of violence, although he has never been physical with me.  His looks and his words terrify me.  I stayed with him far longer than I should have. (like years) because I pitied him, and yes, I loved him.  I took the Mosaic Assessment recently and scored a 7/10, so objectively, he could pose a threat to me or my kids, my girls of course being my main concern.

He has been hospitalized several times since I have known him, largely for paranoid delusions triggered by his UNFOUNDED fears that I was unfaithful.  At one point 3 years ago he was convinced that I had a baby (at 56!) and had given it to one of my students to raise (I'm a college professor).  It is utter madness... .SO WHY AM I SO TEMPTED TO SEE HIM?  TO TRY AND BE A FRIEND?  WHY DO I STILL HAVE FEELINGS FOR SOMEONE WHO SAYS SUCH CRUEL THINGS TO ME AND TREATED ME HORRIBLY FOR YEARS?  And it's not just me  who has difficulties with him - he was kicked out of a grad program because one of the professors found him very menacing; and he has never worked since 2008.  Oh, wait a minute... .he got a job LAST Monday and was FIRED by Friday for antagonizing another employee.

Is this the reality of trauma bonding? I've read so much about it - is my situation how it plays out?  I have been working with a T, I have been attending CODA meetings, I have been trying and trying and trying - but he still has SUCH A HOLD that I am afraid I will go back and I DON'T WANT TO.  I would be more of the same, more pain, probably worse this time.  I have to stay away - is NC the only solution?  I'm afraid if I do that and give him NO outlet he will hurt himself, or actually more likely, come to my home and try to hurt me or my kids.  Hopefully I'm just being melodramatic there, but I don't know.

Is this trauma bonding?  Is it just by virtue of NOT being NC?  Is it just by virtue of him not having found a replacement and me being so lonely?  Like all of us, there were good times too, and I miss them.  I miss him.  I hate myself for it!

Any words of wisdom or support about how staying away is the right thing would be great.  I literally feel, as dumb as it sounds, that this is a battle for my very SELF.  And my kids are visiting friends this weekend, so it will be a big lonely house, even though I have plenty to keep me busy.  Thank you for your kindness and advice in advance.

[Rayban]

Chillamom

How long could you go on like this? It's taking a toll on your health, you're kids are scared, and your friends don't care for him. You mention that you're afraid of what he might do if you go no contact, but ask yourself how is this helping him? He relys on you for soothing knowing that you'll be there day in, day out. What's he doing to help himself?

It looks like you enjoy being there for him. Maybe the twists and turns of his chaotic life provides you with some sort of excitement that would be missing if he wasn't in your life. Therapy should help you figure out why that is.

You aren't his caregiver, nor are you responsible for his well being. You seem to be putting your life on hold, while he's out and about, doing who knows what, knowing he's got you to fall back on.

The FOG hasn't cleared for you. You Fear what he might do if you go NC. You feel obligated to be there for him no matter what, while he seems not to be doing anything to improve himself. Guilt in that he will make you feel responsible for his behaviour, if you finally decide to do what's best for yourself and more importantly your kids.

Most importantly, ask yourself is detachment what you really want? If it is, then just saying you do isn't enough.  You have to begin taking actions to do so. Look into what options are available to protect yourself from him. You mention that you're T mentions that he is capable of violence.  Did the T offer any insight on what you should do.

You could continue seeing you're T, post on here, saying you want to break free from you're trauma bond with him, but yet continue to be there for him. The only thing that will change if you keep doing the same is that eventually he will replace you like nothing ever happened.  Don't let it get to that point. Actions always trump words or meaning well.

[heartandwhole]

Hi chillamom,

I think   Rayban asks some very good questions. I know the allure of someone whose "need" for you is sky high. At some point, however, you have to choose yourself over him. As you have described here, this situation is hurting you. Therapy will help you explore why you feel you have to continue in such a relationship.  

Your enabling of his dysfunctional behavior is not helping him. He needs to learn how to self-regulate, not be taken care of by you for the rest of his/your life. What if something happens to you—do you think he will shrivel up and die, or find another way to survive? If you "go down" with him, what good does that do either of you?

I know all of this is easier said than done. Maybe NC is not the answer, especially if you feel that he might get violent. If that's the case, you want a plan. I would check out some local helplines in your area. Give them a call and ask them about how to extricate yourself from a potentially volatile situation. They are trained and have access to resources and tools that can help (resources you may not even know exist).

Here's an article that might help, too: Leaving a Partner with BPD

This is hard stuff, I know. You can do this, chillamom. We're here for you.

heartandwhole
 

[Insom]

Oh, chillamom!  Do stay strong.  I know how hard it is to break away because I've been through it (and I'm wholly rooting for you).  You can do it.  This man sounds dangerous.  Your health and the wellbeing of your kids is at stake.

[RomanticFool]

Hi Chillamom,

I really empathise with your dilemma. It is really difficult when you are hooked on somebody. I was with my uBPDex married lover for 8 years over a 14 year period, so I know all about long term abuse. I have been NC for 7 weeks and am already starting to feel better thanks to the help I have received here. What I have discovered is that I am Co-dependent.

I'd like to remind you of the definition of of Co-dependency according to Mental Health America:

Co-dependency is a learned behavior that can be passed down from one generation to another. It is an emotional and behavioral condition that affects an individual’s ability to have a healthy, mutually satisfying relationship. It is also known as “relationship addiction” because people with codependency often form or maintain relationships that are one-sided, emotionally destructive and/or abusive. The disorder was first identified about ten years ago as the result of years of studying interpersonal relationships in families of alcoholics. Co-dependent behavior is learned by watching and imitating other family members who display this type of behavior.

I have been a member of AA for 14 years and the phrase that stood out to me is "Relationship addiction." As co-dependents we are addicted to the emotional highs and lows and also the negative feelings. Why? As a psychology Dr you'll know this better than me, but it probably goes back to childhood.

What I have also discovered is that Borderline Personality Disorder is characterised by:

unstable relationships with other people, unstable sense of self, and unstable emotions.

This got me thinking. Unstable emotions are often something I have been aware of in myself. Under stress I get emotional dysregulation and find it difficult to calm down.  After delving deeper into the disorder I found a total of five areas in which this dysregulation occurs:

1. Emotion Dysregulation: Emotion dysregulation means not managing your emotions in context. It happens when you must reduce or escape your emotions by not managing them, without regard to consequences. Emotional dysregulation can be rage, anxiety, depression, and not feeling validated.  

2. Interpersonal Dysregulation: Interpersonal dysregulation is indicated by chaotic relationships and fears of abandonment.

3. Self Dysregulation: Self dysregulation means an unstable sense of self and a sense of emptiness.

4. Behavioral Dysregulation: Behavioral dysregulation is characterized by self-injury and impulsive behaviors (such as substance abuse and promiscuity).

5. Cognitive Dysregulation: Cognitive dysregulation is indicated by paranoia and dissociative responses that are made worse by stressful situations.  

Dysregulation in any of these areas occurs when a person with BPD is out of control, not simply upset. Through the skills learned in Dialectical Behavior Therapy, you can learn to better control all of these areas by taking a step back, being more mindful, analyzing what works, and acquiring new behaviors.

In this forum it has also been suggested to me that we are attracted to our emotional equals.

Since I am in AA I am very used to self examination in step 4 and I have been exploring my own emotional dysregulation when under stress. I know I can feel victimised as a result of the emotional reactions I have to things when people behave badly towards me. Whether or not this is borderline traits or simply pronounced anxiety, I'm not sure but I now feel that I have some issues which make me susceptible to a pwBPD (ie an emotional equal). Does any of this ring a bell with you?

Through this forum I am starting to work on myself and look at my patterns of behaviour and emotional and behavioural reactions especially during stress. I have also discovered that I can also become empathically impaired and the effect on my borderline ex was that I was triggering her (and she was triggering my own abandonment complex and low self esteem).

My advice is to go NC no matter how much it hurts. The pain will ease after a few weeks if you stay close to use here and keep posting. We are all here for you.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi chillamom,

I can literally feel your anguish over this situation as I can relate completely to where you are right now and the internal struggle that riots inside of you.  Your story sounds so similar to mine in how it is playing out and I can tell you that my partner did eventually become violent.  That doesn't mean yours will.  The time that has elapsed sounds encouraging however I do feel that you need to create a safety plan before you disengage so that you are prepared to take action to safeguard yourself and the girls.  I had a domestic abuse support worker and we did this together.  The support service also had extra security installed in my home and had locks changed, alarms fitted etc.  This does give me a sense of being safer at home.  It is also possible to have orders in place preventing him from coming near you and they discussed this with me.  I didn't opt for that at the time but it is still an option should I change my mind. 

Regarding the tough moral dilemma you face, you sound like a very empathetic person (as am I) however it also sounds like you are now aware more than ever that you need to look after yourself and your family.  Put yourself and the girls first.  Your needs are more important than his.  Trust me, you are NOT responsible for his behaviour.  This realisation was the turning point for me.  I can clearly remember him threatening to cut himself again if I didn't do x and I said those words to him.  They really hit home.  I could see the look on his face change instantly.  It was like he panicked and thought 'I haven't got her under control any more, what do I do now?'  If my experience is anything to go by, the chances are if he no longer has you to lean on he will simply find another willing candidate to take the job.  At the end of the day he's a grown man who is able to function perfectly well for himself when he isn't staying with you so why wouldn't he continue to do so after you go NC?  What he does is his decision.  He knows right from wrong.  Yes his emotions are intense but he has capacity.  So he can make decisions to seek that help and support elsewhere.  Once I threw my partner out and went NC, his dramas stopped.  He had no captive audience to influence with his behaviour.  He has started self employment and got his own place.  He is still alive despite the innumerable suicide attempts when we were together.  It has been over 3 months now since I asked him to leave and 6 weeks NC.  He has met someone else.  I've been replaced and he is back to being on top of the world no doubt.  So let go of the FOG and look after YOU.  Just do it smartly and carefully.  You are a kind, intelligent lady who can be HAPPY and does not deserve all of the pain and torment this man is causing in your life.  Let him go.

Love and light x

[Larmoyant]

Hi Chillamom, I’m so sorry you are struggling . You’re being held hostage by his feelings and it feels like a battle for your ‘self’ because it is. Please don’t let him take it. I know how hard it is to rein in your concern for him, yet what about you? You matter . Please don’t go down with the ship because he’ll take you with him if you let him.

You are a highly empathic person so it might help you to explore where that depth of empathy and compassion for him is coming from. I’m still working it out, but believe that I subconsciously identify with my ex’s fear of abandonment. I experienced this as a child and these wounds were regularly triggered by my ex’s push/pull. It’s all part of why I struggled to detach and is probably why I kept responding when he contacted me. I’d make assumptions about him feeling sad/abandoned and would try to fix it and possibly (subconsciously) by helping him with his pain I’d help myself with mine. The reality is I don’t really know how he is feeling at all. I mean, it changes all the time! The same with your ex. He’ll survive without you Chill. He did before and he’ll do it again.

Chill, our needs get lost in trying to meet theirs. It might help you to get in touch with your own again. Make a list and whenever your empathy is aroused turn the spotlight on YOU. What you are feeling and needing and make a conscious decision to take care of you first. I’m doing this (at long last) and that means I will no longer respond to attempts to manipulate me with FOG. Hey, if I can do it, you can   . No longer a caretaker or punching bag. I’m cheering you on.

[Lucky Jim]

I essentially subject myself to hours and hours of texts, Facebook messages and phone calls every day, until it gets to be too much and I temporarily block him.

Hey Chillamom, Why do you do it, when you know its unhealthy?  Presumably because you have codependent tendencies, like a lot of us Nons.  Suggest you establish a boundary for yourself: that you will only communicate with him for 20 minutes per day, or something like that.  Allowing yourself to be available to his daily diatribes is having a negative impact, it seems, and no wonder.  Can you see that?  You're in charge of your life, not your Ex.

LJ

[Pretty Woman]

Hi Chillamom,
   It is very common for people who have studied psychology to fall into these relationships. You are a caregiver. Psychologists try to help people.

See, not so uncommon.

My ex's ex, the one before me was a well-known prison psychologist. This ex STILL speaks to my ex after being accused of being a rapist and a stalker. Sometimes, I think the ex still speaks with our ex because she feels guilty she cannot fix her... .

our ex is not fixable.

We want what is bad for us due to our self esteem. Your ex has shown you who he is at his very core. Letting your guard down and responding only enables him.
If you have love in your heart for him, the best thing you can do is ignore it. All responding does is start the cycle all over again, which as you know doesn't end well... .yet is also wreaks complete havoc on the person with BPD.

You need to find a way to break your co-dependency issues and love yourself again. It is hard loving yourself. When I first started doing that, I almost felt selfish.

But then I realized... .if I don't love myself I show people how much crap they can toss at me, that I will take... .
and that attracts more of that.

Are you working with a therapist at all? I would strongly recommend that and reading as much as you can about co-dependency and how to love yourself again.

You are on the right path, Chill. You haven't responded. Don't give in now. I, like you have been on here since 2012. My final "break" was in May 2014. It has taken a long time to get to where I am now yet I am grateful for it. My ex showed me how little I thought of myself and had this not happened I would not be where I am today.

Use this opportunity to GROW (something your ex is inacappable of). We are here for you.

 
PW

[Pretty Woman]

And I am a firm believer FB blocking hurts the situation more than helps.

Anytime you block your ex they know it is getting to you. It's a non-verbal form of contact. If you can just ignore the in-coming messages and delete them at a later date, when you are up to it, I advise that.

Don't play the FB game because that's all it is, a game.

 

[RomanticFool]

I unfriended my ex on FB when we first broke up. If you unfriend someone then there are no games and you don't have to block them. I haven't blocked her on WhatsApp for the exact reason Pretty Woman is stating. I don't want to look aggressive or like I'm bothered, but if she contacts me I will block her. I have to do NC and stick with it or I'm right back to square one.

[Pretty Woman]

Romantic Fool,
   If you can handle your ex emailing you and just deleting it, do so over blocking.

I know when my ex and I first broke up I immediately unfriended and blocked. This was because we were set to travel out of the country and she was now in a three day old relationship talking about the love of her life... .
which was no longer me.

I went on my trip, alone and friends started emailing me, asking why I was in Canada. Apparently her new GF was traveling for work and she posted how she was missing her "love in Canada".

The bed wasn't even cold yet.  It was a trigger for me and I blocked her so I wouldn't see those things. Months later I unblocked only to find myself blocked. I am doubtful I will ever hear from her again, but regardless if she were to contact me I'd just delete it. At this point enough time has passed. I really don't care anymore. The only people I block now are creepers who try to friend me and make inappropriate comments.

[chillamom]

Rayban, thank you very much for your response.  Detachment is what I do really want; emotional indifference in what I crave and the only way that will ever come is through NC or very very minimal LC.  I have spent a lot of time in the FOG for sure, it's still very thick, and I have figured out (my T concurs) that the main letter for me is "G". My mother was expert at manipulating me though guilt when I was a kid because I was an only child and my siblings before me had tragically died in infancy, so she was incredibly overprotective and everything I tried to do was met with an attempt to stop me to stay home and take care of her.  I still managed to gain my independence, but I was very affected by guilt with was wielded very liberally.  Decades later, the ex is equally adept at doing so, and guilt that I am a horrible horrible useless awful woman if I don't "help" him is the bottom line in my inability to detach.  I'm working on this, but I have no idea if I'll be able to do so successfully, and in the meantime I sit here absolutely eaten alive with guilt over not being there for him, and it's killing me.  I am staying away however, because I HAVE to, and if I did go back he would ultimately be enraged even more for how he would perceive me coming BACK because of guilt and not "love".  So damned if I do, damned if I don't.  Fortunately, I do feel safe as long as I stay physically away from him, although his rages even over the phone are frightening.  He is terrified of a police record (which he already has due to unrelated issues) so I don't think he's going to show up.  If he does, I will call the police.  And also activate the anger of my pet chinchilla, whose tail had to be amputated when the ex "accidentally" stepped on it one night years ago when I dared to go have drinks with friends.  Thank you again.

[chillamom]

heartandwhole, thank you, you always give great advice, and I know you have reminded me several times that I am not responsible for his dysregulation.  I have been HELD responsible for years, even today he was raging at me (via FaceTime, which I stupidly accepted) for making him "lose his 20's" focusing on school and our relationship when he should have been working and building connections.  (he has never worked save to hustle and sell books online since I've known him).  He is having a terrible time finding a job, even though he earned a MS in CompSci in December, because he has no work experience or internships, which I urged him to get for years (even writing his resume and cover letters for him).  He found a job a few weeks ago but was fired  in a mater of 4 days because of the way he angered a co-worker.  And  when he's done raging about how I'm responsible for his lack of work because he "focused on our relationship" (e.g., sat around and played video games and smoked pot for years because he could), he starts crying pitifully about how he never asked for all his problems and he hates having a mental illness and it's so pathetic I start crying too.  It's impossible to develop rational detachment - he's always pulling on my heartstrings and using guilt to make me feel it's all my fault.  Anyway, I KNOW it's not my fault, but it still feels that way!  Thank you, rant over!

[chillamom]

Insom, thanks for cheering me on. I could use it, because this whole situation is indeed dangerous for me, particularly in terms of my emotional well being, which is precarious at best.  I appreciate your kind words.

[chillamom]

Thank you, Romantic Fool, for your comments and your reminders.  I have been following your story on here and I very much admire the strength and determination you have shown, plus your ability and willingness to chime in so frequently and help others.  I'm so mired in the muck of depression from all of this right now that I'm afraid I'm no good to anybody... .

I appreciate you sharing the information about different types of dysregulation and also codependency with me. My T does not think I'm co-dependent (she claims I'm just overly nice and an empath,) but I have been attending CODA anyway and find it somewhat helpful, although the steps don't work unless you work them, right?  I definitely see a clear pattern of addiction to this person in my case, even though I have no addictive problems elsewhere in my life, so I suppose the unique combination of chemicals I experienced for years around him created quite a durable trauma bond that I really only think NC will untangle.  I'm very glad its working for you.

I also read your comments about Facebook, and I admit that I have not yet unfriended my ex on there.  In fact, he messages me constantly on FB. My T suggested I leave a line of communication open for him so the he did not become more enraged and dysregulated,but honestly it's not helping me one damn bit and he's just as dysregulated as ever if not more so.

I feel so incredibly sorry for him, and it's amazing to me that he is still contacting me sometimes hundreds of times a day 5 months after I left him.  It's terribly hard for me to go NC because I feel that it's just like the "silent treatment", which I would not want done to ME, even though I have patiently and not so patiently explained to him literally thousands of times why I cant return.

If I get the guts to go NC at least on Facebook it would definitely help, I'm glad it has helped you!  Thanks again for sharing your experiences.

[RomanticFool]

Thank you, Romantic Fool, for your comments and your reminders.  I have been following your story on here and I very much admire the strength and determination you have shown, plus your ability and willingness to chime in so frequently and help others.  I'm so mired in the muck of depression from all of this right now that I'm afraid I'm no good to anybody... .

Glad you are finding the posts helpful. Just by telling your story you are helping us all and, more importantly at the moment, yourself. What you have done takes a great deal of courage.

I appreciate you sharing the information about different types of dysregulation and also codependency with me. My T does not think I'm co-dependent (she claims I'm just overly nice and an empath,) but I have been attending CODA anyway and find it somewhat helpful, although the steps don't work unless you work them, right?  I definitely see a clear pattern of addiction to this person in my case, even though I have no addictive problems elsewhere in my life, so I suppose the unique combination of chemicals I experienced for years around him created quite a durable trauma bond that I really only think NC will untangle.  I'm very glad its working for you.

I've been to CODA too and found the organisation as a whole very useful. I have done the steps in AA several times and it is a programme of action. You are a bright woman and you know what's going on. I think my r/s was all about addiction, to sex, to drama, to pain (that one was tough to admit to myself), to her dysfunction. In all honesty, I thought she livened up my life. What she really did was ground me into the emotional dust. I miss her in bed. The rest of it, not much anymore.

I guess you will go NC when the time is right.

I also read your comments about Facebook, and I admit that I have not yet unfriended my ex on there.  In fact, he messages me constantly on FB. My T suggested I leave a line of communication open for him so the he did not become more enraged and dysregulated,but honestly it's not helping me one damn bit and he's just as dysregulated as ever if not more so.

I feel so incredibly sorry for him, and it's amazing to me that he is still contacting me sometimes hundreds of times a day 5 months after I left him.  It's terribly hard for me to go NC because I feel that it's just like the "silent treatment", which I would not want done to ME, even though I have patiently and not so patiently explained to him literally thousands of times why I cant return.

If I get the guts to go NC at least on Facebook it would definitely help, I'm glad it has helped you!

All I can say is that even seeing my ex's photo disturbs me. I've gone NC for me. I can't worry about how it affects her right now. She didn't worry too much about how her ST affected me over a 14 year period.

Feeling sorry for somebody is a wonderful quality. Feeling sorry for somebody who abused you is co-dependent in my humble opinion. I disagree with your T about not enraging him. You are suffering due to being in contact with him. I think you need to look at that.

Didn't you say you lived 2,000 miles apart from him? So NC wouldn't pose any physical threat would it?

Only you know what the best thing to do is but I have found NC essential to the restoration of my mental health.

Keep posting. We are here for you.

[RomanticFool]

Hi Pretty Woman,

If you can handle your ex emailing you and just deleting it, do so over blocking.

I can't handle it at all. That's why I have to go NC and the one time she did contact we with 3 words, it sent me into a spiral of despair. If she was to contact me tomorrow, i would suffer. So all lines are shut down. I don't think she will contact me again anyway. She wanted it to end. I think she has found someone else.

I know when my ex and I first broke up I immediately unfriended and blocked. This was because we were set to travel out of the country and she was now in a three day old relationship talking about the love of her life... .
which was no longer me.

I went on my trip, alone and friends started emailing me, asking why I was in Canada. Apparently her new GF was traveling for work and she posted how she was missing her "love in Canada".

The bed wasn't even cold yet.  It was a trigger for me and I blocked her so I wouldn't see those things. Months later I unblocked only to find myself blocked. I am doubtful I will ever hear from her again, but regardless if she were to contact me I'd just delete it. At this point enough time has passed. I really don't care anymore. The only people I block now are creepers who try to friend me and make inappropriate comments.

I'm sorry for your pain. This is so difficult to deal with and I wouldn't be able to. This is the best argument I have heard yet for NC. I think the only mistake you made was unblocking her. We are engaged in recovery here and for me, the only way to do it is to remove the trauma. My ex equals trauma. I must have nothing to do with her. I find it gets easier as it goes on.

[chillamom]

Hi, Larmoyant, and thank you  as always for your comments... .as you know I have been putting his needs ahead of mine for years now, and it's gotten to the point where I don't even know what my needs even ARE.  It's a crappy time of the year for me because the semester is over and summer classes haven't started, so I have a few weeks to wallow, and I'm doing it well.  I think we are peas in a pod in terms of empathy - in fact my T just recommended a book for me called "The Empath's Survival Guide" and it's waiting on my Kindle - but first I think I'll read a mindless silly novel or something. 

I know how long it took you to finally reach the place where you are, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to be the same way, mostly because I'm too damn obstinate to go the full NC route.  I have thought a lot about the role that empathy played in my life, and I think that maybe for me it was the product of a pretty screwed up FOO as well.  I learned early on that it was very important to discern the parental state of mind in my household so I could response (or escape) appropriately, so I'm pretty attuned. to other's feelings. It can be a blessing, but it curses me with respect to the ex... .and Wow he is in SUCH need now.

  I spoke to him today and he is SO angry and SO hurt over his lack of ability to find a job, and blaming me for everything.  I have been telling him in no uncertain terms that I do not plan to come back to him, but I will try and help with with job information if I can (I'm an organizational psychologist so I have a pretty good grasp on jobs and such).  All he keeps doing is literally wailing about how my separation from him has caused him to not be able to find work, how he needs my help to get back on his feet (he was never on them) and most pitiful of all, he recognizes how his mental illness has held him back.  How the hell do you respond to a person you loved/still love sobbing over his awareness that his illness has taken so much from him?  I try to remain calm talking to him, but then cry my heart out for hours afterwards.  And I KNOW I must be a trigger in all this.  Ugh.  Sorry, rant over.  I wish I could channel my "inner b**ch" as my good friend suggests. But I don't think she's very strong.

[chillamom]

Hi, Harley Quinn,

Thanks for responding, and yes, I know you are right in that my needs are important here too.  My need for sanity is particularly active right now!  Unfortunately, I tend to see my exBPD/NPDbf as very UNABLE to take care of himself.  At age 31, he lives with his parents, hasn't worked since menial jobs as an adolescent, and limped through grad school taking one class at a time because the anxiety was too much to do more.  On the other hand, he DID finish his MS (even though he can't find a job due to no work experience) and my T says that maybe I am infantilizing him in my mind and he's actually putting on an act for me.  I don't think that's the case because I do know him so well, and the thought of him with no friends and no money sitting in a room in a house he doesn't even own all by himself every day is pretty tough to take.  And of course he knows how to maximize my guilt.  I have to figure out how to think of myself first, but right now I'm so depressed all I pretty much want to do is stare into space.  Yet, I am utterly resolute in not going back.  An 8 year relationship is a long time... .

By the way, I read your other post about the bracelet you are making and the interesting and eerie coincidence with your dream.  I think that is both strange and very very lovely and it will be a wonderful amulet that you are making.  After I left the ex back  in December, I got my first tattoo to commemorate... .it's an Icelandic vegvisir, or compass, that is supposed to help show the way even when the way is not known.  It's both a  nod to my Nordic heritage and a reminder that I will find my way through the FOG.  I think your bracelet will be that for you as well.  Very lovely idea.

[chillamom]

Hi, Pretty Woman,

You and I have been around these parts for a while, haven't we?

I haven't blocked my ex on FB, although every few days I have to block his messages because they are just incessant (like hours and hours of begging and pleading alternating with abuse).  Really I would really like to forget he exists, and I think I would do much better if I could remove him from FB... .he doesn't have a replacement yet, and even though I am the one who ended the relationship, when he does find a replacement it will KILL me to see it.  I don't think that's going to be soon, but blocking is something I will probably have to do at that time.  I hope to God I can have enough indifference cultivated by then that it won't matter, but I don't seem to be very good at that right now. 

And I agree with you that people in my profession tend to have a hard time turning off the empathy outside of their professional role, and yes, I have several colleagues who have been in situations similar to mine.  A professor of mine in grad school told me that the most critical thing I could ever learn was "rational detachment", or the ability to empathize without becoming part of the situation and taking it home with you.  I never learned how to do it, which is why I ultimately went into organizational psych instead of clinical!  It's a lot easier to focus on employee engagement and organizational wellness and stuff and not people's heartbreaking tales.

I do have a T, thanks for asking, and unfortunately she doesn't help a great deal. I think part of it is I know "all the tricks", so it mostly just functions as a place to vent about my ex because I don't inflict that on my friends (or I wouldn't have any).  Thank you for your words of encouragement... .I am definitely NOT going to recycle the relationship this time, but it's so hard knowing that he is in such emotional pain.

[chillamom]

Hi, Romantic Fool,

I agree that feeling sorry for someone who abused you is absolutely co-dependent; I'm hoping that continuing with CODA and practicing some self-care will ultimately help me feel a little sorrier for MYSELF (you know what I mean, not self-pity!)

I think ultimately NC will be what needs to happen, but right now he has me feeling that I am his only lifeline (which given he has no friends, no job, and still lives at home is sadly somewhat true).  And oh how I WISH he lived 2,000miles away!  He is ten minutes down the road from me, so the prospect of him showing up on the doorstep is indeed possible if he gets desperate enough. 

I can only hope that when he ultimately finds a job it will be in Antartica, (he's 31 and has never had one since minimum wage jobs in adolescence, although he GOT a programming job two weeks ago and was fired in 4 DAYS).

Thank you for responding!

[roberto516]

Hi, Romantic Fool,

I agree that feeling sorry for someone who abused you is absolutely co-dependent; I'm hoping that continuing with CODA and practicing some self-care will ultimately help me feel a little sorrier for MYSELF (you know what I mean, not self-pity!)

I think ultimately NC will be what needs to happen, but right now he has me feeling that I am his only lifeline

She told me the same this week when she begged me through a new email to talk to her. "You're the only person I can trust. I have noone else." Well it was all just to keep me close for what SHE needed.

I did feel sorry for her too when I broke NC to help. But it didn't work. I stated clearly that I didn't want to be with her and she dropped the hints of may trying again (as you know by my post). NC is the only thing that works for me. I never told her before during conversation I didn't want to be with her. Still didn't work. I allowed myself to get some feelings again.

We have to feel sorry for ourselves like you said. Give the empathy and compassion to ourselves instead. Did it for 2 years of my life after a failed BPD relationship. Best 2 years of my adult life

[chillamom]

Lucky Jim,

I like your idea of limiting contact (for now) to a brief period.  My T has suggested the same thing.  She basically said that if I can't go NC, than maybe tell him I'll only respond once a day, or only respond to talk about topics other that why I need to come back to him.  I think that's a viable suggestion and starting point for me, since I don't have the guts to go full NC. yet.  It's just hard when he's sobbing at me to help him and when he shows some sad self-awareness as to how much his illness has rbbed him... .he was crying that he "just wants to be normal", and my heart just broke thinking that he really never could or will be.  I feel that I'm the glue that held him together, which I KNOW is ascribing too large a role to myself, but still, it has worked that way (or he wants me to THINK it has worked that way).  

[chillamom]

Roberto,

you're so right about it being all about their needs.  I have yet to re-read any of my ex's messages and find any concern for mine whatsoever reflected in his words, just like you don't see it reflected in your ex's either.  I definitely need to turn some empathy on myself. 

It's tough because at 59, this is the first time I've been single since I was 14, Lol!  First boyfriend all through high school, then met my husband in college at 19 and was married until 51, then 8 years with the exBPD/NPD. I have no idea how to be alone! 

[Rayban]

Roberto,

you're so right about it being all about their needs.  I have yet to re-read any of my ex's messages and find any concern for mine whatsoever reflected in his words, just like you don't see it reflected in your ex's either.  I definitely need to turn some empathy on myself. 

It's tough because at 59, this is the first time I've been single since I was 14, Lol!  First boyfriend all through high school, then met my husband in college at 19 and was married until 51, then 8 years with the exBPD/NPD. I have no idea how to be alone! 

Could this be the force that is keeping you attached to him? While you might not want to return into a romantic relationship with him, you like the company. I believe you like being there for him, give him guidance. I also believe he knows this so he continues pulling on your heart strings.

This is a grown man who doesn't want to work maybe doesn't need to seeing he lives with his parents, who should be his caregiver and there to listen on how hard he has it.

Have you met his parents? Do they know that their son spends his days making you cry from the comfort of their home?

Chillamom spend less time on facebook or whatever other method he uses to communicate with you. Get out there meet new people, take up a hobby. Do something you like. If you want to have empathy for him, stop babying him. Maybe then he'll think about making his own CV. Or finding his own appartment.  If he can't,  then it's time at age 31 to get professional help instead of blaming his condition on you. If he's capable of getting a university degree he has the capacity to take care of himself. He's mooching on his parents for survival and on you to sooth his emotions. Don't let him drain you.

[chillamom]

Rayban, you're definitely right in that I like to be needed!  My favorite role as a professor is mentoring my students, and I've always been the tireless community volunteer and "neighborhood " mom to all.  I love making people happy and helping problem solve, all good things except I fell in love with a lamprey. I do think at some level he absolutely has parentified me... .and yes, I have met his parents many times and they are  quite sbusive and awful so he had me positioned in his mind as the 'good mom". The age difference doesn't help either. Every day in their home is a variety show featuring verbal, emotional and physical abuse.  The saddest thing is my ex really wants to work,but understands that his mental illness hampers him. On the other hand, if I were in his shoes,I would take just about any damn job in order to get experience, and he is very narcissistically preoccupied with the fact that he should be making a certain salary with his masters, even though he has no work experience. I just realized I sound like I am defending him and making excuses for him,  I have done that a lot, and I think I just internalized that... .  I really appreciate your comments, they shed a light on some unpleasant realities about my situation and give me quite a bit of food for thought. Thank you.

[happendtome]

Chillamom, have you thought that he maybe doesnt have BPD, but that he could be a
To be honest some of these examples (not only your ex) here doesnt look like BPD to me, but lot worse

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Chillamom,

How funny - I've also designed a tattoo and the best part is I swore I'd never ever get inked yet feel this strong compelling urge to go further than a bracelet and ensure I can NEVER forget what I've survived and what I've learned about myself.  I think the fact that this last relationship has made me finally realise I've been in a cycle of these types of situations throughout my whole life and the patterns of my own behaviour that have caused me to fall into these situations is the reason why I'm breaking my vow.  It is going to be bright, colourful and feminine with one word emblazoned across it in beautiful script.  The word is WARRIOR.

Wishing you peace of mind and ease in your life.

Love and light x

[Harley Quinn]

PS Socrates said I am a peaceful warrior because the battles we fight are on the inside.