I think I just got closure. So why do I feel so bad? Questioning BPD

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Last week some of you helped me ignore an email from my ex. I had a friend delete it. Well I got an email from a different account. She had created a new one. After the breakup I told her my view on the relationship. Which was that as soon as it took actual work to make it happen she wasn't capable. And before our 3rd couples counseling session she said "I don't want to go it's too much work." And when my cup was empty after my grandpop died it was up to her, for the first time ever in that 14 month relationship, to take control of the reigns and help support me. Well she didn't. And that's when I left.

Anyway, the email said "This is why I don't want to be in a relationship. i think I'm incapable of loving. I thought I could put the work into the relationship (I guess referring to the first recycle, during which she didn't put any work in. It was me doing her homework, giving her massages, etc). I don't think I can put work into a relationship."

It sounds like honest to god closure. It confirms what I knew (granted I also told her way back when the part I played as well so I don't want it to sound like it was all her). But I'm angry. A part of me wishes she would continue on her destructive path. Finding new guys like I was for her before her relationship ended. A part of me really dislikes that she is finding insight because it means she has a chance to work on herself, and be better for someone else. I know it's selfish and mean but I don't know why that's my initial thought.

And I'm also wondering if she really is BPD. All the diagnostic criteria match up. The lack of empathy, emotional abuse, silence as punishment, using sex as a means of control, resentments, inability to talk about emotions,  and then the cold detachment/discard when I had enough. And then the recycles etc.  basically everything everyone else has written I have related to. But this seems to clairvoyant for someone with BPD. i know she has the traits. Honestly, she could be diagnosed based off criteria. But this clarity has left me stunned. I'm confused.

I know this isn't a recycle attempt. Because I'm going to tell on myself. Earlier this week she made contact with me. Needing my help. So I helped her. Told her I didn't ever want to be with her again to which she replied "Well what if one day I change my mind. Working on myself is showing me something different about myself." She then asked a few times to hang out, and before I could respond she changed her mind. Said she was too anxious. Which is when I told her I couldn't. That I loved myself. Mixed in some rage at her as a way to self-sabotage for good measure so she would paint me black. And then I get this email.

It's a lot I know. But it's left me quite confused. I won't respond to it. I'll never respond to her again. I'm a shell of a human being. 2 years ago people admired my confidence and content way of living. People used to ask me how I did it . Now look at me. Broken, batterd, without any self-esteem left. I'm not suicidal. By any means. But for 6 months I have been walking around asking myself "What's the point?" Brief periods of fun but she would always come creeping back in just to see if I was there. I know she is pained. But the insight she has right now makes me so angry.

[roberto516]

Last week some of you helped me ignore an email from my ex. I had a friend delete it. Well I got an email from a different account. She had created a new one. After the breakup I told her my view on the relationship. Which was that as soon as it took actual work to make it happen she wasn't capable. And before our 3rd couples counseling session she said "I don't want to go it's too much work." And when my cup was empty after my grandpop died it was up to her, for the first time ever in that 14 month relationship, to take control of the reigns and help support me. Well she didn't. And that's when I left.

Anyway, the email said "This is why I don't want to be in a relationship. i think I'm incapable of loving. I thought I could put the work into the relationship (I guess referring to the first recycle, during which she didn't put any work in. It was me doing her homework, giving her massages, etc). I don't think I can put work into a relationship."

It sounds like honest to god closure. It confirms what I knew (granted I also told her way back when the part I played as well so I don't want it to sound like it was all her). But I'm angry. A part of me wishes she would continue on her destructive path. Finding new guys like I was for her before her relationship ended. A part of me really dislikes that she is finding insight because it means she has a chance to work on herself, and be better for someone else. I know it's selfish and mean but I don't know why that's my initial thought.

And I'm also wondering if she really is BPD. All the diagnostic criteria match up. The lack of empathy, emotional abuse, silence as punishment, using sex as a means of control, resentments, inability to talk about emotions,  and then the cold detachment/discard when I had enough. And then the recycles etc.  basically everything everyone else has written I have related to. But this seems to clairvoyant for someone with BPD. i know she has the traits. Honestly, she could be diagnosed based off criteria. But this clarity has left me stunned. I'm confused.

I know this isn't a recycle attempt. Because I'm going to tell on myself. Earlier this week she made contact with me. Needing my help. So I helped her. Told her I didn't ever want to be with her again to which she replied "Well what if one day I change my mind. Working on myself is showing me something different about myself." She then asked a few times to hang out, and before I could respond she changed her mind. Said she was too anxious. Which is when I told her I couldn't. That I loved myself. Mixed in some rage at her as a way to self-sabotage for good measure so she would paint me black. And then I get this email.

It's a lot I know. But it's left me quite confused. I won't respond to it. I'll never respond to her again. I'm a shell of a human being. 2 years ago people admired my confidence and content way of living. People used to ask me how I did it . Now look at me. Broken, batterd, without any self-esteem left. I'm not suicidal. By any means. But for 6 months I have been walking around asking myself "What's the point?" Brief periods of fun but she would always come creeping back in just to see if I was there. I know she is pained. But the insight she has right now makes me so angry.

[Doughboy]

To me, and what do I know, it sounds like an attempt to acknowledge what she has done with a little bit of a recycle attempt thrown in for good measure.

Mine is the same way in that she has all of the traits and the history but she seems so normal sometimes.  Admits she has never had a successful relationship and knows it is because of her actions.  She sees a Counselor for depression and ptsd from a abusive 2nd husband. She is so close to "getting it".  Alas... .she is not all the way there. 

I am working on me right now and would consider being back with her if she made the jump and was getting the proper help.  That, combined with my new knowledge and ability to communicate better, would make a 3rd go very possible of success.  Unfortunately she will need to reach out to me as she ended things and went no contact.  That is why I am focusing on making me better for me and my future.

[RomanticFool]

Hi Roberto,

I am sorry you are suffering with this. From where I am sitting you are feeling as you are because of contact. I know you have agonised over this issue and got the other emails deleted, but by reading an email it has triggered you, exactly like an alcoholic having a relapse. Co-dependency is an addiction and we are all addicted to our exes.

I also think it doesn't matter whether she is BPD or not, her behaviour is erratic and you have suffered at her hands. Therefore, you were right to walk away. If a relationship is not fulfilling your emotional needs then it is healthy to walk away.

To be honest, I think she does have BPD or BPD traits because she sounds exactly like my ex. Also, I'm not sure saying I'm no good at relationships constitutes insight. It could just be another way for a BPD to beat up on herself. She says she isn't prepared to do the work because it's too hard. To me that is something a child would say.

Go back to basics, focus on yourself and take your mind away from how she is going to live her life. All the evidence points to the vast majority of BPDs struggling for their whole life with this. I don't see a good prognosis for her, but I see a great one for you if you can stay NC with her. Screw your courage to the sticking post and you'll not fail!

[roberto516]

Thanks for the replies guys. Honestly. You know it's so hard to remind myself sometimes that I walked away from her. After 2 weeks I wanted to try again, and that's when she had completely detached. But it's true. Deep down I knew this was no good for me. And so I ended it.

I have to learn to resist when she says "I need help". She knows that's the calling card for me to show up. I used to post here after contact, and her reaching out that I will never hear from her again. And always she does reach out. Now I won't fool myself. I will prepare myself for this. I will not for one second think that she won't come reaching out as soon as she starts feeling better. She knows I would kill for her. And she can dangle the carrot in front of my face as a temptation. Not consciously naturally. She's battling intimacy/avoidance.

But I have the control. I have to remember that. I have to stop caring about her. She isn't capable of loving. One day if she is then so be it. But it won't be with me. But she's almost 36. She does go to therapy, but has been for a decade, and it doesn't look like much progress. Seems like, for the most part, her therapist is very Rogerian which won't help someone with these traits.

Maybe she will change. I did. After my first relationship where I was controlling, and suppressed all emotions I was different. Because I spent 2 years working on me. So maybe she will take the time, and change that. But I was always self-less, compromising, and empathetic. Those are traits you need in a relationship (I think). I don't know where she will develop those traits if she has never had them in her life.

[chillamom]

Roberto516,

I'm sorry reading this was confusing and unsettling... .like pretty much everything when dealing with these difficult people and difficult situations.  If it feels like closure, then go with that, feel the pain that washes over you as a result, and ultimately be grateful for the end of a chapter.  However, I tend to see it maybe a few other ways, one of which some others already mentioned - a potential hook for a recycle.  I think the fact she sent it to you again from another address indicates she REALLY wanted you to see it, and thus REALLY wanted you to respond - probably  with either a denial or an affirmation of what she had just said, as long as you said something it would open the door to WHY she wasn't "good in a relationship" and what she could do to be better.  I'm glad you didn't respond.

Another thing I was thinking (and here's some personality disordered strangeness... .) she's a therapist, as I recall.  Often therapists hear things exactly like this, as you know, in the context of a session.  A person with BPD doesn't have a terrifically sound identity, so one thing they may tend to do is "borrow" phrases or snippets of insight/information from the people they interact with.  (I had a diagnosed BPD student years ago and she would often say things in conversation that were identical to parts of conversations she and I had had in my office, or parts of my lectures that she borrowed from various classes). If she has strong personality disordered traits, which is pretty obvious, IMO,she could be parroting something she heard in a session because she thinks it makes her appear profoundly insightful.  In other words, I wouldn't count on this being HER insight... .and the most critical thing is either way, you are staying strong and NC.  Good for you!

[roberto516]

If she has strong personality disordered traits, which is pretty obvious, IMO,she could be parroting something she heard in a session because she thinks it makes her appear profoundly insightful.  In other words, I wouldn't count on this being HER insight... .and the most critical thing is either way, you are staying strong and NC.  Good for you!

It's exactly what I told her before. And it's what I told her early last week when she threw out the crumbs of "what if we were to try again? We don't know if we might want to do thay one day etc etc."

It really makes perfect sense. She literally just reflected listened to what I told her I thought our relationship was like. But yes. I see it now. My normal response to that woukd have been "no no you are capable of loving. Maybe after we work on ourselves we can try etc etc". It's probably what she expected me to say.

But I need to work on me. And I can't let this bother me anymore. I'll feel and embrace the pain and sadness like I do everyday. And keep trudging along.

[Stripey77]

I agree with Romantic Fool... .why does someone saying that they're not up to scratch or capable of being in a relationship, negate the possibility or likelihood that they are BPD? I think sometimes we confuse BPD, because it is a mental illness, or at the very least, a serious emotional disorder, with in some way being mentally impaired. I can only speak for myself, of course, and my own experiences, but my own ex is hands down the sharpest, most self assured, confident, (in some ways) and intellectually similar (to me) boyfriend I have ever had... .it's when it comes to matters of the heart, close friendships, me... .that he is so utterly 'off the scale'.

He has, on several occasions during the turmoil that has been my life with him the last 1.5 years since he first broke up with me, told me that I should forget and hate him, that there's a darkness in him, that he doesn't deserve me, that 'it's complicated'. That 'he can't explain it'... .but that 'everything about me' (him) 'lots of things' are wrong. That he needs healing and maybe I can help him. That his brain is injured... .and so on and so forth.

The point I am making is, perhaps some are more aware than others. Perhaps they do know very well that the problem is them.  My ex, who is currently not speaking to me again (yawn) is a self professed alcoholic. He is most certainly a heavy drinker. I have recently found out he's also got a nice cocaine habit, and, what a cliche, has been engaging in sex with random women... .not establishing another relationship since me, just seemingly on some strange self destruct mission, axing long standing friendships from his life as he's gone along. Although, if I were on on the outside looking in to this, I would think he was having an absolute ball.  Yet through all of this, see above... .he is very, very aware that there is something fundamentally 'wrong' with him. He knows that the problem is him, and I am convinced that the drinking is a way to numb the pain and escape the self hatred. I am sure of it. What he projects, of course, is that every other person is the problem... .all of the drama and woes in his life are as a result of someone else's behaviour, not his. I happen to know that he has bad mouthed me to anyone who would listen, asking people not to even acknowledge me in the street if they see me... .(because he dumped me... .don't ask me why that means I had to be cut off by others) or saying that I am crazy. He sent me a text once telling me that I should 'drink less'. He is, in reality, of course, talking about himself.

The reason I tell you all of this is because all of these examples are projection, but when you drill down the the REAL person, who I do get glimpses of, who sometimes has tried to 'warn me off' of him and tell me, effectively, to save myself... .well that person knows. He is highly intelligent. He probably knows that there is some kind of disorder to his way of thinking... .but he doesn't know what that disorder is. Not once when he has said these things to me, have I seen it as an attempt at a recycle or something even close. I genuinely think he was trying to tell me to run... .he believes he is a bad person.  

Once, when he first left me, and we talked at last... I pushed back at him "but you said you loved me" ... .and his response was "I thought I could love you".

He thought he could. But the reality was too much to bear, clearly.  My love hadn't gone anywhere... .it still hasn't in lots of ways. His disappeared in a puff of smoke, in the space of hours after being the most 'in love' with me ever. It's as though something just ripped in his brain... and that was it.

I am sure I've posted this before, but I want to leave you with what my ex said to me about a  year ago after a ST of almost 6 months, and after locking me in a toilet with him after seeing me on a night out.

"When I was with you, I enjoyed every minute... .I was so happy. But then the darkness took over my brain... .the problem is in my brain... .no guilt. No guilt."

He meant fault on my part, not guilt. And that was not an attempt at a recycle, in that moment,  I think he was speaking the truth and it was from his heart. He meant it. Those are some of the most precious words he's ever said to me, certainly since breaking up with me, because he was telling me, clearly, that he knew that the problem was him. It's a shame that he behaves like a b*stard to me much of the time, is giving me the ST (but then, so am I to him) but I still remember those words verbatim, and how he was when he said them. In a way, it's a gift, because I think it's the closest I will ever get to him acknowledging that the problems emanate from him. He can behave how he wants atm, I will never forget what he told me that night, and how it was said.

Sometimes, what they say is actually the truth... .especially if it's to do with how they feel, perhaps.

[Pretty Woman]

Roberto, true closure will come from within yourself... .not her.

As was posted here, sometimes things are said to get a reaction... to attempt to recycle. I'm not saying that's what she's doing but I think you are wise at taking her at word and letting that be your closure. Don't try to diagnose if or if not she was BPD. She was bad for you and that you DO know.

I know I really wanted my ex to be BPD because she was so awful.  At the time, that made me throw everything on her. It was all her fault when really it takes two. I was not perfect. I fed into her immaturity and did not act mature myself.

I kept trying to fix the situation. Leaving would have done that.  In the end she made that decision and somedays I think that was the most selfless thing she did. I like to think maybe she loved me enough to let me go. I wasn't happy and towards the end I resented her for all the cheating and lying. She did me a favor.

I know it's hard to see things from this angle. It's fresh, it hurts but now is about you. You have an opportunity to find the happiness you deserve. She doesn't hold the key... .she never held that key, she just led you to believe she did.

Change the locks on your heart friend. It's time to forgive yourself for whatever you did in this and move forward. You can do this.

[Doughboy]

Perhaps they do know very well that the problem is them... .Yet through all of this, see above... .he is very, very aware that there is something fundamentally 'wrong' with him. He knows that the problem is him, and I am convinced that the drinking is a way to numb the pain and escape the self hatred. I am sure of it. What he projects, of course, is that every other person is the problem... .all of the drama and woes in his life are as a result of someone else's behaviour, not his.

Mine is self medicating by throwing herself into her Evangelical Christianity.  Claims the only way for her to have a successful relationship is with someone of her identical Faith... .If you don't share the Faith you can't support properly or share the same foundation of ethics and morals.  Of course, her ethics and morals have been suspect for the last 19 months... .

[roberto516]

The feedback is appreciated. And it's all true. I'm not necessarily looking for the disorder. But of course it makes sense that she has some awareness. She did it many times before.

I won't message back but I would really just want to say "all I ever asked of you was to spend some more quality time with me, recreate intimacy. Thats all the work i ever really asked of you. Remember all I asked was that we recreate date nights and spend one night a week watching a movie together instead of going to bed at 8? That's all I wanted."

I won't send it. I don't need to. But it feels better just to type it somewhere. Thanks again guys. I know my feelings are normal. And, albeit I had real angry moments after the breakup, I was pretty darn good to her

[chillamom]

Roberto, Like Pretty Woman so beautifully and succinctly put it, it's time "to change the locks on your heart".  I love that, and may we all have the strength to do so.

[Icefog]

Hey Roberto good for you for having the insight you do. I agree with Pretty Woman. True closure will come from  you. I also wanted closure from my exBPD partner who sounds very similar to yours. It took me a while to realize that closure was something I have to give myself... .I am not sure what that even means other than the thoughts of us together simmer to a dull roar and not be so intrusive and unsettling. I know who she is and why she does what she does. I am one of many over her entire adult life. She fits the diagnostic criteria and I don't say that lightly or haphazardly as I am in the business. At the end of the day and I look at closure with her it wasn't that I wanted closure at all... .I wanted something she was unable to provide to me or anyone else in her life... .a healthy, stable relationship. I was quite simply a casualty in her long list of failed relationships. Many people new this and I would suspect she does to... .she just doesn't care due to her empathy deficits and maladaptive coping. The work is with you my friend and I am happy to help in any way. Take care.

[Pretty Woman]

To second, Icefog, the lack of empathy is what is most painful and the reason why you rarely will hear of anyone getting closure directly from them. They aren't capable of taking any responsibility for their actions, instead they are all projected onto you. You are the bad guy.

Which we know is not true. To err is human. None of us are perfect or 100 percent to blame in our past relationships.

I have never met anyone as cold as my ex. She went from extremely loving (which I now realize was an act) to this cold, hate-filled person who wanted me dead, who wanted to ruin me, destroy my career, destroy my life.
When all I wanted was her to be happy.

I almost killed myself that's how badly I took that form of rejection. To be ghosted is one thing, that's hard but to be ghosted AND slandered... .It hurts. But you know what hurts more? Sitting inside your head trying to "rationalize the irrational". I had to finally step out of my headspace and take a look at the "tangible" that was in front of me. I have many people who love me. I have many people who I've gotten in arguments with over the years but we took space and worked it out once we had time to cool off and think about things. And you know why that worked? Because we genuinely loved each other and neither wanted the other to suffer.

There ARE rational people in my life. This one person's opinion does NOT define me. It only defines me if I let it.

It's getting out of your headspace which is hard to do but it's possible. I used to talk about my ex ad-nauseum. People were so annoyed I couldn't just get past it. I was like a broken record, repeating the same things over and over. If you read my earlier posts on here, you will see a difference from how I wrote then and how I wrote now.

Time and NC gave me clarity. At first I went NC in hopes she would return. That is NOT the way to do NC. NC is for you and you only. For you to get clarity and heal. Had she still been in my life, even at LC I would be stuck. I would not be where I am now.

Knowing this person changed my life.
For the better.

While I wish I never had to experience this it taught me a valuable lesson. You are only treated the way you ALLOW yourself to be treated. I should have walked away the first time my ex called me a a-hole but I didn't. I enabled her to degrade me.

I am not saying it was all my fault but when someone shows you who they are, you should believe it. I no longer give second chances. When someone irrationally goes off on me, I spin on my heels and walk away.

Life is so much more beautiful without all the drama. It just takes awhile to get over the addiction to drama these relationships seem to create.

[OptimusRhyme]

I am not saying it was all my fault but when someone shows you who they are, you should believe it. I no longer give second chances. When someone irrationally goes off on me, I spin on my heels and walk away.

Life is so much more beautiful without all the drama. It just takes awhile to get over the addiction to drama these relationships seem to create.

This is an excellent post, and I'll add that the kicker for me, and the realization that truly freed me up to embrace this knowledge, was coming to terms with the idea that not giving second chances, and embracing a no-tolerance, save-your own self policy towards emotionally damaged and abusive people, was/is the kindest thing I could do for THEM, as well as myself. Realizing that that wasn't being an emotionally miserly/untrusting/selfish dick, that that was being healthy about my relationships, has made a huge difference in both how I approach investing in people, and the results therein.

[Pretty Woman]

Optimus,
   You hit the nail on the head. It IS the kindest thing we can do for them.

When my breakup first happened I was angry. I wanted revenge, I wanted to see my ex suffer for putting me through this.

With time and growth I realized she didn't put me through this. I ALLOWED it. Also, she is suffering everyday. She had a broken trail of lovers and can't understand why. She is limited in her capabilities to grow... .she repeats the same dead-end scenario over and over and over... .

but I, but WE DO have the opportunity to grow, so why not embrace that?

I will say since this relationship ended my career took off. I am not only succeeding, I'm thriving. I am also a giving, loving person. This could have hardened me and it didn't. As terrible an ordeal as it was to go through I am happy in my life. Wishing her unhappiness only hurts me not her. My thoughts and wishes have 0 effect on her and her life outcome. It's so much better and healthier to wish her well (in my head, not reaching out and go about life without all that anger.

The anger holds us back and has 0 effect on them. Why beat ourselves up?