Is lying common with BPD and once split, do they come back?

[kim2017]

I'm not sure if my ex has BPD but it certainly seems very likely. We were together for over 2 years. A beautiful, intense relationship that developed very fast. I often said he "worshipped me" and I certainly could do no wrong. For the life of me, I never thought we would end. He seemed to love me from the depth of his soul.

One day, right before we were about to leave for an elaborate vacation, he started making all kinds of false accusations of fidelity against me. Accusing me of all kinds of ridiculous things and no matter what I said, couldn't rationalize or reason with him. So I hung up. We didnt speak for a day and the intense fear of abandonment I had seen throughout the relationship (I had never heard of PD or BPD) kicked in.

A monster came out and the most intense Rage I had ever seen. Absolutely no contact.

I subsequently found out he had blatantly lied about his marital status. When we met, he said he had been divorced over a year and his wife abandoned the kids.

Turn out he was married for most of our relationship, kicked her out right after we met, and managed to go through a divorce without me finding out. A big lie that I found out only after we broke up.

I'm also wondering if its likely he will come back. I believe he really loved me. We were amazing friends and business partners. I loved his kids and never had a chance to say bye to them as he blocked all contact. He's painted me black and is filled with hate.

I'm going to move on but I want to believe one day I can see or hear from him again. I read somewhere that a large percentage do come back. However, he has made it clear he never wants to see or hear from me again.

[JRT]

I wish that I had the same opportunity ... .mine left just a couple of weeks after she moved in and ordered our wedding rings... .I was away and didn't even know... .I was blocked everywhere and never spoke to her again... .I don't even know where she lives... .that was 2 1/2 years ago... .but, according to what I have read here, most do come back.

[kim2017]

JRT,
I have a feeling mine will also never come back. The anger is too
deep. Some have told me if he doesn't come back, the universe was in my favor.
Perhaps we have to believe that having them disappear is better for us in the long term.

However I don't understand how you can have such a significant relationship and then completely disappear - never ask a simple "how r u" or how are your kids. That is so strange to me that we can be discarded overnight like this. It's been 5 of the longest, most emotionally difficult months of my life. I keep hanging on to the good times, the memories of the beautiful person he was and all the love he showed me.

How he turned into this cold, mean, angry monster overnight is hard for me to understand and accept.

[JRT]

I think that you speak for many people when you say that you just cannot see how someone can cut someone off with such finality after sharing so much and having a close relationship. Many if not most pwBPD are the raging kind... .the relationship is often highly problematic and painful hence the breakup can have an element of relief in those cases.  In others (mine as well as - it sounds like - yours) there was very little if any acrimony (absolutely zero in mine) hence the aftermath is that much more painful and confusing. You didn't deserve that... .NO ONE deserves that.

[kim2017]

JRT,

Was there something that predicated her leaving? There was with me. I made a mistake and triggered his deepest abandonment issues. I had no idea he had this side and his rage caught me completely off guard. He went from loving me so intensely to hating me with a passion.

I should have picked up on his abandonment issues and I often wonder if I was more sophisticated and aware, could I have had a lasting relationship with him.

[JRT]

well... .she had moved in 3 weeks earlier... .the weekend prior we had ordered our wedding rings... .our entire relationship was reasonably peaceful (outside of several strange episodes/breakups that I have later come to recognize as discards)... .we had an argument about buying a new car... .the argument was odd... .she agreed that I needed one but; I am not sure I knew what her point was. it was as if she was angry for the sake of being angry. Like it was an argument for the sake of an argument. She demanded that I return her to her car (we were on the way to a art fair). It was THAT big to her.

She calmed down and we had a good time. There was NOTHING else that transpired although she DID complain about having to drive my daughter to school on her way to work (here again, I was receptive to hearing her complaint and making adjustments if needed but she wasn't really making sense about anything).

Outside of these things there was NOTHING that had foreshadowed what was about to happen.

[roberto516]

JRT,

I should have picked up on his abandonment issues and I often wonder if I was more sophisticated and aware, could I have had a lasting relationship with him.

I struggled with this too. And then I realized the covert self-sabotage going on. It was take, take, take so that eventually, after communicating that I needed it to be more mutual, and not seeing that I left. She always told me that no one will ever love her, and she doesn't deserve to be loved.

Well that was her chance. I laid it all on the table for her to see this was what we needed to be successful. But it would have always been something. If we worked on that the sabotage would have come somewhere else. It helps me to remember that because there is nothing we can do without being a saint and perfect partner 100% of the time.

[Pretty Woman]

Hi Kim  ,
   All the things you mentioned are pretty indicative of BPD. Vacations tend to be a trigger because they are scared to death of abandonment (they need to abandon before being abandoned). We know this is an irrational fear but to someone with BPD it is VERY real. Closeness, such as on a vacation triggers the whole "push pull". In the three years I was with my ex, every vacation AND holiday was absolutely ruined. If I wasn't dumped immediately before, or during, she picked fights with me trying to push me to my "breaking point".
It was all very drama-filled and chaotic. Two years out, I don't miss this.

BPD relationships often start our intense. You are placed on this pedestal and told how amazing you are, how they never met anyone like you. You are their soul mate. While being lauded they also tell you all these horrible stories about the lovers that came before you, how terrible these people were and all the horrible things they did to your ex. You are told all these people's "secrets", some sound right out of a soap opera. This makes you feel even more connected to the BPD. They have confided in you all the shyt people have done to them.
But it's not a priveledge knowing this information. They are telling you how badly THEY treated these people. These people who are actually just like you. Here you are trying to protect them, show them love like they've never known because of how awful these people were to them when really, most of it is PROJECTION and they are placing blame on kind hearted, good folks just like you are.

I had an opportunity to meet some of my ex's exes. One she said raped her, another she said stole from her. The "rapist" is a well renowned prison psychiatrist who is the EXACT opposite of how she was described to me. All of these people were in general "lovely"... .definitely a little damaged (aren't we all) but overall good people who settled for a shyt show.

Lying is very common with this disorder. They are often talking about you to several groups of enablers and proxies. After my ex left for the final time there was one group of people that had no clue she had left me and another who thought I was the devil incarnate... .people who actually were scared of me she told them such crazy stories.
They are chameleons.

I am sorry your ex lied to you about his marriage. This too, is not uncommon. They generally have more than one person in rotation. This helps with their abandonment issues and allows for them to have security and be able to "triangulate" until they firmly secure the next partner.

 Your ex could very well come back. Mine returned 13 (yes 13) times until she finally secured a replacement. She broke up with me saying nothing would be changing between us (she was trying to keep me as a side piece) while she dated someone else. I refused this and she proceeded to slander me terribly. She left with my dog, moved in with this woman and has not contacted nor spoken to me in over two years. I did recently see her coming out of a restaurant with my replacement, but I was driving through a strip mall lot. It was shocking but it didn't really affect me.

That and the fact she gained about 50lbs. But I digress... .
 

I want you to think long and hard about what you typed. This guy lied to you for a chunk of your relationship. He also cruelly abandoned you. Why do you want to see him again?

There is no right or wrong answer. I can tell you from personal experience, the return, discard, return, discard really took it's toll on me physically and mentally. By the end of our union I loathed her. I loathed what she had done to me. Later, months later I continued to loathe only now it was myself. I was angry I allowed someone to treat me so poorly. I am finally forgiven myself, but it's taken time.

Your ex does NOT hold the key to your happiness. I have moved on to a great relationship and in time you will too. I know it hurts to be discarded and treated like you meant nothing... .
because you do mean something. You are very special and important... .
and loved.

You have to depersonalize something that is so personal. Keep in mind, BPD's do not think the same way we do. They are experts at the "cut off" and have been doing this since they were little.
This is their personality. This is a personality disorder, this is who they are. You cannot change it.

The only thing you have any control over is yourself. Forgive yourself, love yourself. Don't concentrate on whether or not he will return. By doing this you aren't living. He is going about life and you are stuck.

You will read many stories on here, once someone was healed and completely indifferent about their ex, they'd show up, sometimes years later and by then they wanted nothing to do with them.

The best thing I can say is keep yourself busy. Join a social group where you can hang out with strangers doing fun stuff (check out meetup.com). Being around strangers helped keep my mind off my ex, I didn't want to be the crazy person talking ad-nauseum about my ex so I didn't. Do things for you, take it day by day... .get a good therapist if you don't have one.

Get yourself strong and healthy and THAT is what you will attract.

You can do this.

 
PW

[Pretty Woman]

Kim, you also have to stop focusing on the good times and remember the shyt. The good times were a false mask. The chaos and craziness that hurt you... .that is the BPD stripped down to their core. That is your ex.

It hurts to think you weren't loved as much as you loved him. He loved you in the only way he could and most of the good times was him "mirroring" you.

Believe it or not, you actually fell in love with yourself. Seriously.

Unfortunately, it's a very one sided love (what a BPD provides). They lack empathy so they don't get how you can't just get over being abandoned with the snap of a finger. This is why many file restraining orders. While you are grieving after a sudden unexpected discard, any reach out to them is perceived as a threat. It's a no-win. The best you can do is let them be and focus on you. That's hard if you are a caregiver but it's critical. I learned a lot about myself through this process.

[HelenaHandbasket]

Kim, I read your post a few days ago about this relationship--I don't remember you mentioning that he'd lied about being married. Does this mean you just found out?

I'm so sorry you're going through so much pain.  From an outsider's viewpoint, although I understand the pain and uncertainty (and self-doubt), I am SO glad you are out of this relationship. I believe to my bones that it would have made you miserable in the long run. Possibly the not so long run. It sounds like his paranoid jealousy and creepy stalker stuff was escalating.

[Jillian1231]

Pretty Woman,

Thank you for your responses above.  Your reminders are sobering and encouraging to me.  Well written.

[Pretty Woman]

Jillian, I am glad my words are comforting. This is not an easy process and I too have days where I am either sad or angry at my ex but I will say as time passes things get substantially better. I had never experienced anything like this in my life and as awful as it was I have a greater appreciation and lower tolerance for accepting crap. I was able to eliminate a lot of people from my life who brought me down and I can honestly say I now have a core group of people I can trust.

It sucks to be rejected but what happens after that is all within our control. Only we gave the power to grow and learn from our misteps. The more you work on you, the more you love you. It took a long time but I love myself enough that I would never allow this to happen again. Yeah it sucks but I know there is better out there. After these breakups the focus needs to be in you, not them. With work you will eventually be in better shape and suitable to meet new and amazing people. Dont rush into dating, that's just a bandaid and not fair to the person.  Get to know me improve yourself and your life WILL improve!

[Gemsforeyes]

Amazing insights, Pretty Woman - and I thank you, too.

Dear Kim-
I read your first post and now this one and have been so upset over what you've endured.  And in reading what JRT has been through.  It's almost MORE difficult for you than what those of us who went through the years of rages before we were able to break ourselves free from these destructive relationships.  My undiagnosed ex-BPD boyfriend wore me down to a wisp of my former self in the 3.5+ years we were together.  And I entered this only 9 months after my divorce was final (19-year marriage that ended violently one night).  My husband had NEVER shown violence until that night.  I was in shock... .whatever.

I have been free for 6 weeks now.  I am sad, but only sporadically.  Mostly I'm angry... .at myself.  I need to forgive myself - so thank you Pretty Woman.  I have a truckload of trauma to deal with, and I better get that ball rolling.  I see that I normalized that BPD behavior because after coming to this board, I realized that my sister is afflicted and I've been dealing with this since I was 11 years old.  I'll be 60 this year. 

My psychiatrist/therapist told me during my divorce that I was emotionally abused by my husband, which I refused to believe.  And now this BPD boyfriend.  This abuse I can't deny.  But I got out, thank GOD.  And I was able to let him think it was his idea - even better.  My sad truth is, I was waiting for my most amazing divine and sacred love to return to me.  I would see glimpses of him, but he was really replaced by an angry, selfish, raging, tormented stranger with a very cold heart.  I hurt down to my bones.  I actually felt pain in my heart and started thinking I only needed to live as long as my dog was alive.  That scared me.  But when he kicked a hole in the door at the vacation rental several months back, and blamed the door for "being cheap", that changed something in me.  That kick was close to my body.  And if he broke my bone, would I be blamed for being small-boned?  I even took him back after that, but something really was different about me.  I knew the next time he left, I would be thankful.

Kim- here's my take.  I am so so sorry for your deep pain.  You may not know it now, but I really believe that you first "met" your boyfriend on the day he showed you his rage.  Due to your incredible accommodations and empathy toward his paranoia and unfounded jealousy, you unknowingly kept his rage under wraps for two years.  That's pretty amazing.  Please keep in mind, he cheated on his wife with you.  You didn't know this, but he did.  He accused YOU of his actions.  Imagine how SHE felt.  She was probably stunned but relieved as all get out when he likely had his last rage at her and made her leave her family home.  Yes!  People with BPD lie.  Whoppers and small, stupid lies.  My boyfriend told me things that were unbelievable.  And I forgave and forgave and forgave.  I forgave the unforgivable.  What was I thinking?  I still don't know... .

I really do believe you escaped in the nick of time.  Truly, the universe felt that both you and JRT deserved better than a lifetime of pain and suffering.  Pretty Woman is correct when she cites the sabotage of important events - your impending big trip.  That man pushed the limit with you - you just were not consciously aware of it at the time.

Let's visualize your scenario.  For two years, up until 5 months ago, you had accepted and smoothed over his paranoia and unfounded jealousy by allowing yourself to be monitored via a camera at your home's entry.  You had shared your email password.  He demanded hourly phone contact.  He was jealous of contact you had with both men AND women - friends and business colleagues.  If you happened to fall asleep prior to having sex, he accused you of not loving him.  You spent countless hours assuring him of your devotion.  You had to be conscious of what you wore, way more conscious than you should have to be.  You did NOT yet live with him. 

Then you're driving in the evening after a long day, with things to do because you're leaving the next night on a big trip with HIM.  He calls you, tells you to pull over because he has something "urgent" to discuss.  Here's where I step in... .My body would have taken over and being told to pull off the road, my thought would have been - that a loved one has either been hospitalized or has died.  But NO!  The "URGENT" thing HE tells you is  that he was monitoring your phone calls and text messaging and then he KNOWINGLY accuses of you of something you BOTH know to be completely false. 

Kim- you had a full body reaction.  And you had a right to have that.  Whatever words came out of your mouth were caused by an exhaustive piling up of KNOWING that no matter WHAT you did or didn't do, it was NEVER going to be enough to placate this guy.  He was testing you right before this trip.  He put you in a no-win situation.  He was making sure that the trip was NOT going to happen.  Even without that devastating land mine you would unknowingly walk into the next day, you were about to start paying.  I'm sorry, but if anything, he owed YOU an apology.  As an adult, he was WAY off base with that accusation.  And he even admitted it when you had those 2 days of contact and he said he knew you wouldn't cheat with "that guy".  He always knew that.

Even with the deep pain and wondering and mysteries of this, I don't think this is a kind person.  Try to consider what you've learned.  The rage IS who he is.  He lied about a very important issue - still being married and living with his wife when you met.   Heaven can only guess what else he has lied about.  If you were to reunite, you will likely endure continued "punishment" for hurting him.  But what about your pain?  He will not see how any of his actions affect you.  My ex never saw any of that.  Ever.  And if you were to ever move in with him, well my own experience was that my ex "secretly" went through all of my drawers, cabinets and private papers when I wasn't here.  Very violating.  I am not attached to my cell phone.  When he was here and it pinged or rang, he would literally fly off the sofa to see who called or texted me.  Otherwise, in general  I could barely get him to move.  I eventually decided he could look at his own risk.  That simply wouldn't be my problem.  I just watched him.  He tried his best to isolate me from everyone I knew.

Bottom line, I don't know that there are real words that will lend comfort permanently to you.  You'll have ups and downs, but tell yourself that it's okay to start feeling better.  You didn't destroy him as much as he wants you to think that.   He did a whole lot of living before he met you.  He has been way more destructive.  Please notice that you are the only one who has been desperately trying to reach out and make things "right"; yet you are NOT the person who created the unnecessary drama to begin with.  It was all him.  His creation.  You are not to blame.

I don't know your man, but I know mine.  He's a "drama king".  He's got to have chaos in his life.  What he did to me, I am certain now that he's done to countless women along the way.  From the depths of my soul, I believed that if I loved him deeply enough I could help him with his rage and jealousy.  I could not.  He is simply unaware, not at all self-reflective and disinterested in the impact he makes with his rage.  He could not get over my ex-husband, despite the fact that I spoke very little of my marriage.  I tried to explain to him that be bringing that up was painful to me and to please stop.  When he raged, he'd threaten to fly my ex-husband here to get "the REAL STORY".  He told me my step-kids wanted nothing to do with me (it was actually him they didn't like).  The thing is, if we're really honest with ourselves, not every person we lose is a loss.  Sometimes we do get "lucky" just in time.  Sometimes something somewhere is watching out for us.  I have faith in that.  I have to... .and I am hoping to someday love myself.

I am sorry for the length of this.

Be good to yourself.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[joeramabeme]

For a pwBPD, emotions are facts.  So, if their emotions say that you did something, then to them, it is factual.  Stories are created around feelings; they substantiate the feelings as real.  For most of us the process is just the opposite, we have an experience and then emotions about it.  They have emotions and then create experiences to explain them. 

I had just got a new job, making the best salary I ever had, was fully engaged in giving 100% of myself to make marriage successful when exuBPDw told me story how I wanted to buy a house so that I could quit my job and take advantage of her.  ?  She was so enraged that she was banging the floor with her foot and the table with her hand.  I pointed out the facts about my job, house shopping and the other tasks I had been doing as contrary to her "story".  She simply could not see it because her emotions were so powerful.

My guess is that for most of my stories anyway, I could replace the word lying with a more accurate term "emotional dysregulation".  Not defending behaviors of pwBPD, but accurate explanations makes me less likely to feel like a targeted victim and to understand this is how life is for her.

[kim2017]

Gemsforeyes, Pretty Woman, JRT, and everyone else that I missed ... .THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to help a perfect stranger and offer so much invaluable advice.

5 months of therapy, tons of friends (including his own best friend and therapist), telling me its not my fault and nothing sunk in. But reading your posts and your personal experiences and encouragement has given me the peace and tranquility that I so much needed.

I am finally understanding what everyone was saying "I dodged a bullet."

I believe at some point he will come back. We started a business together. A very lucrative one that he has basically abandoned and holds the keys to. At that point, I pray that I have the wisdom and courage to recognize, at best, all we can ever be is professional colleagues.

And perhaps he will let the business go in which case so will all his savings and his entire IRA account. I can't imagine what that will do to his already shattered self-esteem but through your posts, I am realizing ... .I didn't cause it, I can't control it, and I certainly can't help it.

THANK YOU, again and again. You have no idea the impact of your words on me. I am grateful.

[Doughboy]

I believe at some point he will come back. We started a business together. A very lucrative one that he has basically abandoned and holds the keys to. At that point, I pray that I have the wisdom and courage to recognize, at best, all we can ever be is professional colleagues.

And perhaps he will let the business go in which case so will all his savings and his entire IRA account. I can't imagine what that will do to his already shattered self-esteem but through your posts, I am realizing ... .I didn't cause it, I can't control it, and I certainly can't help it.

It would be money well spent to have a meeting with an Attorney to discuss your options regarding the Business Partnership.  This can be a VERY sticky area for many legal reasons and you should be prepared.  I would suggest maybe having a buy out plan sitting in the drawer just in case.  At minimum have any Agreements you may have with him reviewed so you know your rights front and back.

Emotions can heal.  That Business is your livelihood and future.  Protect it at all costs.

[kim2017]

The fact that he was married 18 years and then had a girlfriend for 13 years prior to her makes me feel like it had something to do with me. We only lasted 2 years before that "mask" fell off. But I doubt he ever split his wife black. There is no way she could have lived under the same roof with that anger - I don't think she ever triggered that side of him. She was quiet, submissive, and predictable.

He says that I am "toxic" for him. That he's so insecure and with my outgoing personality - we are toxic together. Funny how that never came up before.

I read your posts and feel at ease for about 2 hours. Then the self blame kicks in once more - that it was somehow my fault for failing to keep it together for longer.

[Pretty Woman]

Kim,
   Please don't blame yourself for it not lasting longer. I will tell you from personal experience... .

They tend to keep people in rotation that they know they can manipulate. Once I realized what the heck was happening I confronted my ex about BPD. She never denied it. She knew I knew and thus I saw behind the mask and that's a huge "no no".

My ex bounces back and forth between exes. In fact she does this with two in particular. She has moved across the country with one, only to leave this person in a new location to run back to the other.

That ex she lived with three years. When she left her out West they didn't talk for three years. They didn't get back together but now, seven years later they hang out. My ex is with my replacement and I know she is all of a sudden talking to this ex who is in a relationship like crazy.

Sad thing is this woman's long term BF has cancer. I know my ex is hanging around in hopes something will happen and she can get back together with her.

This is her modus operandus.

During my relationship she referred to three different people as the "love of her life". These are all people she cruelly dumped and tried to go back to years later only to find they were in a committed relationship. THEN she wanted them back (but of course)!

Just because a relationship lasts longer does not mean it's stronger or better. It means the other person is willing to be a doormat and tolerate unacceptable behavior. They likely challenge them and allow themselves to be berated and abused.

Once I stopped allowing poor treatment my ex was not interested. Once I got stronger I realized it really doesn't matter who she is with and how long... .she is toxic and no longer my problem.

So don't beat yourself up. You have the opportunity to heal while some people just stay in that rotation. I think that makes you healthier in many ways. You can't really recover from this if you keep dipping your hand into the flame.

I know it's all fresh for you and you are vacillating between anger and sadness. Try to think more about the crap times than the good because that is your ex's true identity. Keep reading and posting here. It gets better, I promise!

 

[Gemsforeyes]

Oh Kim- (my apologies for the extreme length of this post)
No no no no no---
I'm sorry, but I can't allow you to point that finger of blame at yourself and say that it's YOUR fault for not keeping his rage hidden for 13 or 18 years.  I would then have to ask why my ex-husband waited 19 years to throw me across the room?  And it only took my ex-boyfriend 2.5 months to show me his first unprovoked monstrous rage and ONLY 3 years before he kicked the hole in the door.

I went to plenty of therapy with my ex-husband.  He actually cheated on me BEFORE I married him.  This is horribly painful, it's a topic I don't touch or want to think about, the incident happened six years ago... .but I have to.  Kim, I want you to see.

I'm utilizing this board as part of my soul searching and therapy, so I might as well start... .It was pointed out to me, by therapists, and a psychiatrist, that My husband was abusing me (but not until the end of our 19 years).  I would NOT accept that accusation.  After all,  I was a STRONG, happy, engaged, productive, loving, active, independent, social person.  We had a wide network of friends, so that description did not fit my image of an abused spouse.  People came to ME for help!  My friends, my husband's friends, co-workers, my step kids, my step kids' friends, I was the go-to person dammit!  I was NOT an abuse victim!

When we were in couples therapy, my repetitive thought was always, "I don't want to stand in the way of his happiness".  There was never any mention of my happiness.  I twisted myself inside out to keep that man happy.  I made no demands on him.  That is not an understatement.  Never wrote a "honey do" list in my life.  If I asked him to do something I couldn't do and he ignored the request, I'd hire someone.  He once said in therapy that I didn't love him because I "didn't nag him".  Well, sorry dude.   His friends described me as the perfect wife.  He went pretty much anywhere anytime he pleased.  He went on camping trips without me.  And he went on backpacking trips with other women.  Yep.  If I presented hurt feelings over his actions, he would object.  My only reaction would be to tell him that he can't dictate how I feel.  I just gave up.  Some of our closest male friends would approach me and tell me he was behaving inappropriately.  I'm not a fighter.  I actually think my husband would have been snapped back into reality it I had had an affair.  Whatever.  In hindsight, It's a complicated thing that makes no sense now.  But marriages can last a long time if one partner sucks up, shuts down emotionally (the other partner doesn't know it) and has good friends, a good job, good volunteer work, financial independence, doesn't complain, laughs a lot.  This guy HAD TO HAVE a lot of female attention.  I knew that.  And it didn't really bother me much.

You try to get him to talk to you, but suddenly he's looking right through you... .no eye contact anymore.  And then a month later on Valentine's Day, her husband says, "if you're not out of here soon, I'm going to start bringing other women in here".  You say "you can't bring women into our family home".  You can't control your tears.  You don't understand where his words are coming from. 

Two nights later, he comes home at 11PM and walks into the guest room.  You ask if you can talk to him and he says yes.  You say, "look, if we need to separate, can we please part as friends".  He says "this is not in my universe".  You say "what?"  And then this is repeated.  You take the pillow away from his face.   You're kneeling on the bed and Your arms are straight down your sides.  And he grabs you by the shoulders and throws you across the room.  You hit the bedroom door, bounce against the wall and land on the floor in the hallway.  You're stunned and Scared to death.  Your pacifist has just thrown you.  You're crying and can barely breathe.  You weigh 118 pounds.  He weighs about 200 pounds.  You have already lost 20 pounds and you don't know why.  Is he coming after you?  He hates you that much?  Why?  What did you do?  Didn't you just make love a few weeks ago? GOD help me!  Which part hurts the most?  Get away or get help? You scramble to your feet and run to the phone in the kitchen to dial for help.  911.  He screams that you BETTER NOT BE ON THAT PHONE.  You hang up before it's answered.  You grab your cell phone to call your friend, find a cigarette and head outside.  Did he do drugs?  That didn't sound like him. He must have done drugs!  Where was he all day?  Somebody needs to know what he just did!  Your whole body is shaking.  The cigarette won't stay in your fingers.  It's ok, that dirt won't kill you.  Your friend says "he did WHAT?" He comes out looking for you.  Can I please talk to you?   You come inside.  He just shares at you... .He starts to say, listen... .I'm really sor... .

Then  there's a knock at the front door.  The door we NEVER use.  I answer it alone.  Two police officers.  One talks to me, the other is standing about 20 feet back and doesn't hear me.  I tell the officer everything is fine, that nothing happened.  I'm holding onto the door jamb to keep my balance.  I am lying.  I guess I don't look like nothing happened.  Half of the hair in my bun is hanging down, i was still crying, my clothes were a mess.  They knew we'd lived there for 14 years and there had never been a call.  The other officer comes in and talks to my husband away from me.  Some time passes.  Then I hear handcuffs and my husband is arrested based on what he told the other officer.  That officer never spoke to me.  That is one of the first times my husband had voluntarily told the truth.  Yes, he was a liar, too.  I guess my husband never dreamed My first lie would be that night.  He was arrested for felony domestic assault.  Then my police officer asked me to pull up the legs of my pants and roll up my sleeves so he could see my body.  He told me the bruises would be worse tomorrow.  He asked about the parts of my body that weren't visible.  I lied again.  Then both officers sat down with me.  I was pretty inconsolable.  They explained the process.  They wanted me to file an emergency protective order.  I refused.  My marriage ended that night.  I should have filed the protective order.

For the next 8 months, that man disobeyed everything he was supposed to honor.  I did so many things to hurt myself and help him after that... .but that's part of my intense co-dependency weakness.  I ultimately fled my home, my community, my friends, my job.  Things with lifetime consequences.  Things I cannot seem to forgive myself for doing to myself.  After all the things he did to me over all those years... .I was still sickly loyal to him.

This doesn't even begin to touch on anything within the marriage.  But Kim - believe me, it is VERY possible to remain in a long-term marriage with these people and not be happy.  It is no way to truly live YOUR life. 

After that nightmare, I waited 2.5 years to really begin dating.  My divorce had been final for 9 months, and in walks Mr. Perfect.   I didn't know I was writing about the relationship to essentially save myself and keep myself aware of what was happening.  But that's what I was doing.  During my marriage, I repeatedly would say "I have to remember how I feel right now"... .but then I'd forgive and forget.  And I do mean forget.  I just would move on and completely forgive my husband for any and all misdeeds.  I just HAD to be completely trusting.  With my boyfriend, I think something in me must have known, from the start, that something was amiss.  So I began to take "notes" to myself.  And once I wrote it down, I'd move on to the next day.  I didn't wait for the next rage, until his behavior became such that it was impossible for me to be me any longer.  Until I actually wrote that "it's hard to forget what you're in, when you're in it everyday". You see, when I remember what I write, the writing doesn't work anymore.

I am FINALLY getting clarity on why I stayed in my marriage. And why I stayed with my raging boyfriend for the 3.5 years AFTER he first showed his rage to me.  My PTSD goes way back to childhood.  And was pretty much sealed after a violent event in college.  I am the most desperate of the co-dependents. 

I feel now, FINALLY, with this awareness, that I do have a chance to live differently.  To be more fulfilled.  To love better people.  During the course of our divorce, when I was in the middle of inspections of my new home in another state, he actually called my mother and asked "why is she leaving me?"  My GOD... .

My ex-husband and my ex-boyfriend share some traits, but not all.  They did share me.  Through the trauma of that Divorce and My escape from this boyfriend, I am finally awake to the fact that I will not sacrifice anything for these types of people EVER AGAIN.  They have a cruelly manipulative and emotionally controlling nature that IS who they are.   They don't care about their impact on others, be it their lovers or their children.  I know this from direct experience with two men, although my ex-boyfriend may be more textbook BPD than my ex-husband.  I actually believe there is a third, another boyfriend from long ago, who had a horrible temper.  No one believed me until he exploded in front of my mom the night we were engaged.  I also let him come back briefly, but ended it right after.  He still found me across the country 15 years later and still emails me at my business address, now 28 years years later (sick!).

My future charity work will be for the truly needy- animals and children, or maybe get back to teaching financial literacy to homeless people- those consciously looking to help themselves.  I already happily handle responsibilities for my 90-year old aunt and my 85-year old mom.  From this point on, I think "nope!" I will not kill myself trying to teach a lying, thieving, raging adult how to be reflective or let him think it's acceptable to leave a footprint on my back or a handprint on my face.

Dear Kim - you deserve better than this.  You did NOT deserve nor did you cause this horrible raging behavior.  I am seeing, with my ugly history in words, that I attracted these men because I must have somehow condoned their sub-human behavior.  That's how little I think of myself.  I hope I survive this process.  Please Treat yourself better than I did.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[kim2017]

Wow, Gemsforeyes, your story is surreal. Its true - she could have stayed if she was scared to leave. I know if I had seen that rage during our marriage, I likely would go no where fearing that he could take the kids away from me - which by the way, he did with his ex. He painted her as this mom who wanted nothing to do with her kids and only towards the last few months of the relationship did I find out he withheld so much money from her that she had no choice but to move somewhere far that she can afford.

People at the office call me "Clara Barton." I'm often referred to as an empath. Every therapist I've been to, including his who told me I am lucky for this to happen, tells me I am a classic co-dependent.

He on the other hand says I have severe NPD, that I am not capable of feeling love. He said he's spent the past few months speaking to the "foremost authority" of NPD and together they have diagnosed that I am a narcissist and incapable of loving him, that my feelings were never real, and the only reason I want him back ever is to control him.

How did I control him? "Every time you went shopping you bought me clothes." I also apparently tried to control him by recommending he exercises and eats healthy. What am I supposed to say when he's standing in front of the mirror telling me he feels bad about himself? I kept telling him I loved him but that wasn't enough. So I recommended we start exercising together and eating healthy. That was "control." He used to always say "I'm afraid one day you will wake up and realize you are too good for me." So I tried to make him feel better - by encouraging him to adopt a healthy lifestyle, I bought him new clothes so he can feel better. I didn't know how to fill that empty hole he had inside.

Heaven forbid I fell asleep one night and not have sex. That meant I wasn't interested or cheating.

Interesting how he spends his time analyzing me rather than looking within.

I wonder if he is somehow aware he has BPD. He repeatedly (almost weekly) said his mom abandoned him, his grandma hated him, his ex wife hated him. I wonder if anyone ever diagnosed him with this.  His family blames all of this on me - they told him they would disown him if he came back to me because his insecurity and my extrovert personality don't mix. I wonder if they knew something was wrong with him. He has a masters degree in psychology himself. His career involves an indepth knowledge of psychological disorders.

This is all new to me but he's very aware of NPD, BPD. Wonder if he knows.

[Gemsforeyes]

Oh my, Kim... .He's got all of the lingo down.  His "diagnosis" of you is laughable.  You are by no means a Narc.  Just look up the traits.  First, if you were NPD, no one would EVER call you an Empath!  Second, you would never have allowed that camera, password sharing, hourly calls, phone plan sharing, long comforting talks to assure him of your love and devotion  - all done to lessen his paranoia and baseless jealousy - you simply would NOT have done any of it.  You would never have given a hoot about his insecurities.  Way too much work - you would have been gone super fast from this needy guy.  He would be an energy drain on most people.   There is no understanding of empathy with a narcissist.   And Let's exercise together and eat healthier is controlling?  The more you are able to share, the more It appears you were being placed in a no-win position.  I'm so sorry.

I used to kid my ex undiagnosed BPD boyfriend, who I didn't know was BPD or NPD, but he was definitely both.  I would say right to him - (substitute his name for the word "ME". - when he wouldn't leave me alone, and every time I would finally sit down and he would want this or that... . 

"The ME channel - all ME, ALL the TIME."  And he would just laugh and laugh.  Hmmm, sounds like YOUR ex.

And here's a true NPD story, too.  So he's taking me to meet his mon for the first time.  This ex-boyfriend is very very handsome.  When we first met, I really had second thoughts about dating such a good looking man.  My mom had always told me not to date someone who was prettier than me.  But he pursued me like mad.  Anyway, we had been together for about 5 months, he had already moved into my home (another story), and I'm trying to dry my hair.  He keeps getting in front of me and asking me if he looks ok.  There are two full bathrooms in my home.  Keep in mind, he sees his mom at least three times each week.  Well, on the fourth time he got in front of me, I said, "honey, your mom KNOWS what you look like, may I please finish drying my hair so we're on time?"  And here's the punchline.  We get to the restaurant, and he introduces me using the name of the girlfriend he supposedly broke up with three years before.  I was mortified.  But he was more embarrassed than I was.  I never did figure that one out.  I charged him $100.  He actually paid me, too!  I explained to him that I used to charge my ex-husband $100 when he called me his ex-wife's name, which he only did when he was angry.  That's what made him pay me.  This boyfriend was super cheap, so he never made that mistake again.

You Kim, do not suffer from NPD.  He however definitely does have BPD and very likely NPD, as well.  And I believe he does know it.  He's also trying to twist you into thinking you are disordered.  Don't buy into that.  You may be co-dependent, but we can get better (I'm praying).

Here is my relationship visual:  He was the wind. And I was the wheat.

It kind of sounds pretty... .but it's not.  The wind can be very powerful, can be breezy, then calm, then gusty, hurricane force, change daily, unforgiving, unpredictable, hit you like a tornado, tear at your roots, rip your buds off, lift you up and then drop you and leave you strewn and scattered.  And I, the poor little stalk of wheat, am left completely at the mercy of the wind. That's sort of what it feels like, right?

Please Be careful not to let every word he said get under your skin and into your heart.  He's got "training".  He can tell "untruths" about his former wife and things his family has SUPPOSEDLY said about you.  Just because he says something does NOT make it true.  You already know a pretty big thing that he lied about (the marriage).  People normally don't lie about only one HUGE thing.  Keep in mind, he was likely going for maximum effect, i.e., maximum pain with all the nasty things he said to you.  It was pretty much a character assassination completely aimed at you.  Well adjusted people don't do that.  If and when you do allow contact, you'll need your protective bubble around you.

Please take a kind moment with yourself.  Tell yourself that soon you're going to allow yourself to stop replaying that mean "tape" of poisonous words and accusations he threw toward you during that phone call and those two days of contact.  Maybe write those words down.  And prepare some type of ritual.  Because soon enough, you, or we, or you and some friends are going to burn and release those ashes of words to the sea or a river or somewhere.  You're going to release yourself from this pain.  You are NOT toxic.  Neither alone, nor when combined with any other person.  That is someone else's lie.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[kim2017]

How do I know the next guy won't be like this? I had no clue or indication. I took him out and everyone said I was so lucky to have someone like him. He adored me and I never loved anyone like this. 2 years and I saw nothing.


How do I trust someone again after this? I have lost faith in people. The only red flags I saw were some weird comments about his relationship with his mom. Other than that, really NOTHING.

We spent so much time together and other than insecurity which I reassured, our time was so beautiful. We enjoyed the same food, same sleep patterns, similar with how we raise kids. We travelled 3 weeks together - nothing (other than the one night when I fell asleep and he was upset that I didn't have sex). Very little red flags. People around me said he was great.

This was a complete shock to everyone, not just me but everyone around me. I am not sure I can trust anyone again. The weird thing is as he's raging against me, he tells me "You're too naive. You're too friendly. Someone is going to take advantage of you. I can't be with you because of that."

And when I said I loved him, he kept saying "stop, stop, why are you trying to hurt me." Almost as if I am now the perpetrator who hurt him.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Kim-
I completely understand your fears about trusting other people.  As the saying sort of goes, we need to keep our hearts where our feet are, i.e., not get ahead of ourselves.  But it's so great that you're thinking about that!  We're not quite there yet; I think we need to heal more, jettison the old relationship and learn to trust ourselves first.  At least I do. 

The recurrent pattern with me, as I look back, is that men fall very fast and hard for me.  They want to spend as much time as possible immediately, way faster than I do.  And I fold and allow that.  I don't want to do that anymore.  That is now a flag for me.  I want to set the pace for any future relationship.  If a man instantly wants to spend too much time at my home, that is a flag.  If he has no friends, that is a flag.  If his insecurities are sharp and deep, that is a flag.  If he doesn't show me his home upon my request, that is a flag.  If he is too secretive, hides his phone, etc, that is a flag.  I now know what to look for.  I have been a magnet for these men... .I know that now. 

Too many negative stories about this person or that person or this family member or that family member- sayonara fella!  And I absolutely do NOT want to hear gruesome details right off the bat about anyone he has dated, been married to, or raised by.  At my age, it is a given that we all have a past... .it does NOT need to be on the dinner table before the first course is served.  I will gladly discuss religion, politics, global warming, sports, weather, careers, travel, medicinal marijuana, Russia, personality disorders and anything else that pops up.

I don't know if your recent ex is the first pwBPD you've experienced.  But Kim, if you really break down his behaviors and things he said and did, there were  several flags. You just didn't know; how would you?   I'm guessing you may want to avoid severely insecure men.  They may not be any more loyal.  My theory with the constant cheating projection is that they have a hard time remaining faithful.  (Just a personal hang-up, I don't put up with accusations- never have- I just cannot trust people who make baseless accusations).   I have never been able to be good friends with jealous girls either, and I've known my share. 

Finally, you've probably read other people's posts, we can't help but do that here.  And I'm sure you've gained a LOT of insight through that process,  despite personally having experienced the rage "only" once.  You don't have to experience the rage more than once to have that feeling replay over and over, do you?   

What you endured as far as the insecurities and jealousy is NOT normal, adult behavior.  It is invasive, manipulative and very controlling.  Do you find that comfortable?  I hope the camera has been taken down.  I hope you have changed your email password to something he cannot possibly guess; and changed your phone plan. 

When you are strong enough... .I think you will change your phone number; or you will block him.  That is the day you will stop waiting for his call and you'll be ready to meet a kind man who knows how to love.

I don't WANT to be on a pedestal; I never have.  Those things are tippy;  there's no place to go but  DOWN... .  I want to be held in high esteem by my man.  I want to be loved and cherished, not worshipped.  I'm not an idol.

Keep in mind, you started talking about this with people who understand what you've gone through and are dealing with just a few days ago.  I just learned about BPD and NPD on May 11th or 12th.  I'm almost 7 weeks out of my relationship.  But heck Wally, I'm aging FAST!  And if I want a date for my 60th birthday in October, I don't have much time... .

Boy, I get lost in this therapy... .

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes