The difference between what I want and what I'm willing to accept

[BeagleGirl]

I survived the weekend from h3ll.

I don't remember how much of my apartment drama I've shared about, but between Wednesday and Friday of last week everything came to a head.  LOTS of stress from that.  I was able to manage the required contact with former affair partner so it was minimal, but that had its own emotional drain.  Top that off with the residual/ongoing stress with BPDh and my parents and I was pretty low by Thursday night.  BPDh was supposed to take the day off work Friday and take the boys on an outing.  I texted him Friday morning to see if I might have some time with them in the evening only to find out the S14 had decided he didn't want to go on the outing and hadn't been talking since Wed. night.  BPDh decided to go to work Friday since I could go be with the boys.  S14 has had his "funks" where he mopes and doesn't say much.  I've talked with him about it and how it's not okay for him to walk around making sure everyone knows he's not happy but not giving them the opportunity to help.  We've been able to manage those times pretty well. 

Well, this weekend was the mother of all silent treatments from him.  BPDh didn't know what to do with him, so happily said "It's your weekend to have them".  S18 did what he could, but his offers of "do you want to talk" were met with the same silent treatment.  I took away electronic devices until S14 was willing to give me one word about how he was feeling and tell me one person he would be willing to talk to.  He not only didn't talk, I caught him using an old iPhone that S18 had forgotten he had to access the internet.  S14 is rarely defiant, so this was just upping the ante.  I gave him "reasonable" alone time (an hour or two during the day), but also required that he take the dogs on walks, mow the lawn, and participate in whatever S18 and I were doing.  I didn't beg for him to talk and did my best to go on about our lives as if what he was doing wasn't tearing me up inside.  I did print out the Wikipedia definition of "Silent Treatment" for him to read, because I wanted him to be aware that what he was doing was manipulative, controlling, and fell into the category of abusive.

I sent S18 to stay with BPDh Saturday night so that I would be the only one dealing with S14 that night and getting ready for church.  Some time in the middle of the night I heard him up getting a paper towel.  I told him where the Kleenex were, he got one, and went back to bed (I'm in a one room apartment, so he sleeps on a trundle right next to me).  I'm not sure if he was crying.  I just rested my hand on his shoulder and told him I loved him and went back to sleep.  This was the first time all weekend he didn't pull away.

Sunday morning I woke him up to get ready for church and asked if he was ready to talk.  He nodded.  I asked what his one word for his feelings was and he said "angry".  He wasn't volunteering more information so I asked if he wanted to share or if he wanted me to ask questions and he said "questions".  Basically, I got out of him that he was mad at me for expecting him to do "productive" things each day last week.  That was the condition under which I told him he could stay home rather than going to visit my brother with my parents.  I have my doubts that was the root of the anger, but I went with that.  I talked with him a bit about anger not being wrong, but the way he handled his anger being wrong.  I tried to keep it pretty brief and let him know I wasn't looking to solve everything in one conversation. 

The rest of the day was "okay".  He wasn't pouting and giving the silent treatment to his friends and brother the way he had earlier in the week.  My parents got back from visiting my brother (they were gone for the whole silent treatment period) and probably didn't notice much difference in his demeanor.  He wasn't chatty, but responded to direct comments/questions.  He left for camp this morning, acting fairly normal.  We haven't had any further conversations about his silent treatment.  I'm hoping to at least ask if he would like me to help him find tools to better deal with his anger after he gets back from camp.

What I don't get to tell him, or feel like I have anyone to share with is how and why this crushed me.  The two things that kept haunting me were "I caused this.  I left BPDh and he feels like I left him too.  He's right to be angry" and "He wants to hurt me and he's seen enough of BPDh's treatment of me to know that this is the worst pain he can inflict on me.  He's becoming an abuser, like his dad."

I can hear FF saying that I need to not confound all these things.  I'm working on trying to sort them out, but at the moment I feel overwhelmed by emotions.  The most disturbing of which is that I am afraid of my son and his ability/willingness to hurt me.

Oh.  Just to cap things off on my parent's visit - as S14 was saying goodbye to my dad before heading out for camp (my parents leave tomorrow) my dad made eye contact with me before saying to S14 "Remember what I told you.  You can come live with us any time."  Yeah.  That felt great to hear.  Dad has already told me how he feels like I'm hurting his grandsons, so it was good to establish that he felt it necessary to offer to take them off my hands.

On the bright side, all of this had me questioning my decision to continue with the separation (probably not REAL questioning, mostly FOG questioning) so I've been praying that God help me see where BPDh's heart is.  The answer to that prayer came this morning in a text from BPDh saying that the house he's planning to rent won't allow dogs.  It may seem small, but it tells me that he is not willing to look for something that will allow our son to have our dogs with him except when he's with me.  It's not the first thing about this house he's planning to rent that makes me think "I wouldn't have chosen that one", but this is the first that really impacts S14.  He ended the text with "We'll have to figure something out".  I'm leaving that one alone.  He is aware that I will be traveling for work during the times I don't have S14, which means I will need to figure out who will take care of the dogs while I'm gone.  Good thing I'm good at figuring things out without him.

Okay.  So that was my weekend from h3ll.  Feel free to give insight/advice.  I'm limited on time with WiFi until Wednesday, but I'll try to catch up with everyone's postings soon. 

[Grey Kitty]

First off--congratulations--you survived the weekend!

There are several things in here that I'm going to take exception to.

What I don't get to tell him, or feel like I have anyone to share with is how and why this crushed me.  The two things that kept haunting me were "I caused this.  I left BPDh and he feels like I left him too.  He's right to be angry" and "He wants to hurt me and he's seen enough of BPDh's treatment of me to know that this is the worst pain he can inflict on me.  He's becoming an abuser, like his dad."

First off, you didn't cause this behavior in him by leaving--For one thing, your BPDh drove you to leave, so he shares the blame. Second, he learned it by following your BPDh's example, as you said. Note that you aren't the one who taught him this stuff!

Second, and most importantly--he's still a teenage child. He still needs parenting, and you are doing exactly that. To prevent him from growing up believing that this kind of behavior is OK.

Further, I'd expect S14 to behave as badly as he has in years right about now--no matter who is at fault, separation is hard on kids. And having parents together but fighting and not resolving their conflicts (i.e. what was going on before you moved out) is hard on kids. Being a teenager is hard too. And lastly, I'm guessing that living with BPDh isn't particularly easy on him these days either... .does he get the silent treatment from BPDh?

Anyhow... .given all he's going through, you can expect him to be exhibiting some of his worst behaviors, and the fact that you got through to him is really encouraging. While it is a concern that he could become abusive like BPDh, I think you will be able to raise him better than that still.

Dog question: Whose dogs? Yours? S14's? S18's? BPDh's? Both in terms of who takes responsibility, and what the dog would say if you asked... .

[BeagleGirl]

GK,
Thank you for the perspective.  S18 cruised through the teenage years with such ease that I do sometimes need to be reminded that 14 is hard, no matter what.

The dogs - now there's a topic that is relatively easy to talk about. 
We have 3 beagles.  In name, the two older (Sandi and Violet) were each given to our two sons 12.5 years ago.  As you would expect, they are family dogs.  The latest addition is a rescue beagle (Praline) that I selected as a "backup dog" since our other two are getting up in years.  She's approximately 4 years old.

All of the dogs look to me as the "alpha".  Violet sleeps with S14.  Sandi is "second in command" and sleeps on the landing so she can watch all the rooms while we sleep.  Praline is adored by all (S14 likes her better than Violet) but is very clearly my dog.  She blatantly ignores the rest of the family at times but follows me around and always responds to me.  I have missed all the dogs tremendously.  I try to get some time in with them when I'm at the house with the boys, but end up spending most of my time with the boys.

It was my goal to have the dogs travel with S14 to whatever house he is staying in.  This was partially because he does turn to them for snuggles/comfort now more than ever and also partially as a convenience because I travel for work and will pack that travel into the time that S14 is staying with BPDh. 

I'm playing with the idea of finishing out the basement as an apartment and seeing if I can find a college student who would dog sit for "rent".  It would be a complication in an already complicated situation, but boarding the dogs would bust my budget.  Sandi needs medication twice a day and all three have been known to break out of the yard and come looking for us when left alone more than one overnight (they have a doggie door, so they are pretty self sufficient otherwise).

[Grey Kitty]

... .so your idea/hope/plan was that shared custody would involve the dogs going back and forth with S14, because they are good for S14, and you are concerned with his welfare--a very reasonable approach.

Dogs staying with you as the household "alpha" and as you appear to be more responsible than BPDh is another 'reasonable' approach, although presumably harder on S14, and also more difficult to manage around your work travel.

I'm assuming that your current apartment is one that falls short of dog-friendly, and the plan now for BPDh to find his own, and you will move back into the house after he moves out.

And BPDh's unwillingness to put in the effort / look hard enough to find a dog-friendly place to rent, has you questioning his commitment to being a good father for S14.

Yeah. Kinda heartbreaking.    And that's pretty common with split custody with a BPD partner--they fall down on the job of being a parent. Badly.

And when he drops the ball, you will chase after it and/or pick up all the pieces you can for S14, because you are that is what kind of mother you are.

Don't let him use this as a way to weasel back into living with you, emotionally blackmailing you with what he's taking away from S14. I'm not saying he's consciously trying to do this; I've got no idea.

Please remember that you need soo much more than that to reconcile. And let me tell you from watching others that since you've moved out and improved your boundaries, his behavior probably has improved--partially because he's not close enough to be as abusive as he was, and partially because you aren't close enough to trigger him either. *IF* you move back, he will revert. I guarantee it. Maybe not all the way to the worst he ever was, if your boundaries are much stronger, but he will be far worse living with you than he is now, living elsewhere!

[formflier]

Uggg... .uggg... .ugggg  Boundary busting all over the place.  Ok... actually one really jumped out at me and you need to handle it directly with your Father, in the presence of your mother.  It's not a discussion... it's a message.


What you Dad told s14 about living with him "anytime he wants" is not ok.  It's NOT about what the kid wants... .it's about supporting the two parents that are trying to raise a child.  You need to put your Dad in his place  Your mom needs to hear.

":)ad, I'm sure you will agree that teenage years are confusing ones.  Even more so when parents and adults are not getting along well.  It would mean a lot to me if you would apologize to S14 for offering to let him live with you, whenever he wants.  Where S14 lives is an adult discussion between uBPDh and I."

stop... .listen... .do not bite on the stuff that will be thrown out there... .  In fact... .look for things you can "agree" with.  Such as "I didn't mean xyz... ." 

":)ad, I agree that you didn't mean any harm.  I know you and that you have a loving heart, which is why I'm sure that you will want the parents to make parental decisions and the grandparents to support them.  If you have questions or concerns about parenting address them directly to me.  S14 is not involved in adult decisions."

Then... after one or two things that you can "agree" on... .

"I need to get back to you apologizing to S14... .when can we set that up?"

Don't further explain why... .don't debate.  He likely won't.  Don't bite on that... .

OK... .I'm going to cut this post and come back in a bit and make some other comments.  I'll finish with saying this should get your "mamabear out".  Just like Notwendy wouldn't turn her kids over to the Mom to be an emotional caretaker... .YOU need to enforce boundaries in YOUR family for YOUR kids.

Your parents don't get a vote in this... they get to listen.

FF

[formflier]

On the silent treatment... .it appears to me that you "bit" on it.

There seems to be this attitude of he needs to talk so others in his life can "help" or "fix" or "deal with"... .

And to a point that is correct.  Move "your version" of that point quite a ways towards letting him deal with it while you provide support.

Trying to convince s14 that his behaviors are abusive or mean or out of line likely poured gas on the fire. 

Two goals.

1.  Get him to behave somewhat like an adult (talk to people politely when you don't feel like it)

and

2.  Have empathy for others.  Especially how his actions/words might impact others.

At the right time a question of "How do you feel when you are ignored?"... .then "How do you think (fill in blank) feels when ignored"

Eventually you may get to where he admits he wanted someone else to feel pain.  Listen... .non-judgmentally.  Do not correct.

He will hear that he is "wrong". 

This is likely something to discuss with T and likely something for a T to gently nudge him in the right direction.  You totally get it that he has learned some of this from his Father.  A T will have much better luck guiding him.  If you are involved in trying to convince s14 that those actions are not good... .it will likely turn into a proxy battle between you and hubby about who is right/wrong.

Lots to be very careful with here... .there is not a rush.  This didn't happen in a day and won't be "fixed" in a day either.

   

FF

[formflier]

BeagleGirl,

I hope you can look at the "big picture" from a "boundaries point of view" and then express to us here why your Dad's comments about your Mom's arms get one recommendation and comments about s14 get very different recommendation.

FF

[BeagleGirl]

BeagleGirl,

I hope you can look at the "big picture" from a "boundaries point of view" and then express to us here why your Dad's comments about your Mom's arms get one recommendation and comments about s14 get very different recommendation.

FF

FF,
Thanks for the really good question. 

Why I think I responded to the two scenarios differently -
1.  I was much more emotionally exhausted when faced with the offer to S14 to go live with my parents.  I don't think I had much "fight" left in me when it happened.

2.  It's much easier for me to fight for someone else than for myself.  I think this is probably the bigger contributor.  In the situation with my mom, I was wanting to stand up for her and for S18.  In the situation with S14, it felt like the offense was against me.  I draw a bit of a parallel to the fact that it took me seeing the clear impact of BPDh's behavior on S18 to say "This is not okay".  That was the proverbial straw that led me to be willing to have BPDh face consequences for his behavior, ultimately leading to this separation.

3.   In the situation with my dad's treatment of my mom the injustice was clear to me.  His behavior had no purpose or outcome other than hurting someone.  There is a part of me that still looks at what my dad did and says "Of course he thinks it would be better for S14 to live with him.  I left my husband and left S14 with my husband.  I'm acting selfishly and that means I'm not being a good mother.  Dad is just offering S14 an "intact" home."  There is still a part of me that believes what my dad thinks about me and feels like I "deserve" the hurt he caused me with that comment. 

4.  While I can "agree to disagree" with dad on his treatment of my mom if he doesn't make amends, I fear that I will lose my relationship with my dad if I confront him on his treatment of me and he is unwilling to respect my boundaries.  I feel like that's what happened with BPDh.  Ultimately, I had to leave the relationship to stay "safe".  I know what I have with Dad is not a "loving" relationship, but it's what I know and I'm afraid of losing even that, especially with his health as it is.

I know none of these are "good" reasons.  I know I need to deal with them.  Right now I feel cowardly.  I don't want to face the "monsters".  I'm glad dad is 2000 miles away now and I don't need to see him again until Christmas.  On the other hand, I have the Father's Day card that I bought this weekend with the intention of slipping it into his luggage.  I wanted to be able to write loving and encouraging things that would make it a special gift.  Other than signing my name, I have no idea what to write in it.  Everything I want to "say" would hurt him.  But so would sending it with just "Love {BG}".

Today is the first appointment with the mediator for the legal separation.  At the moment, that seems a lot more emotionally manageable than anything with my dad, so I'm choosing to focus on that for now.

BG

[formflier]

Good response... .very insightful.  No right or wrong answers

As you mature towards understanding boundaries one of the things you will understand more is that if someone wants to be hurt... .they will be.  People with even more dysfunction will claim that you hurt them... .and depending on your level of dysfunction... .perhaps you will agree with them.

With that in mind, I would encourage you to write a nice sentiment to your Father for Father's Day.  

Dad,

Thinking of you on Father's Day.

Love,

BG

If that is all you can manage and feel good about... .for you... .that is wonderful  I think most people would be glad to get something like that.  If someone wants to  read more into it than you intend... .there is nothing you can do about that... .nothing.

Big picture:  You are aware of your emotional energy... .you are "spending" it where you believe it is wise... .and for that    

FF