she said she has to leave me.

[JoeBPD81]

We had a couple of silly accidents this week and she was splitting on me. By Sunday she was really mad that I didn't talk to her. I knew talking when she is like that makes communication impossible, and only escalates hostilities. I had to study, so I went to study as much as possible (not being able to concentrate though).

She kept insisting until we talked, and she said she has to leave me. That she can't hold a relationship, that she keeps hurting me, that she hates herself for not being able to treat me kindly... .It is exhausting this role reversion: I should be the one asking her to treat me kindly, or to leave, and she asking for a chance, but it is backwards, it's almost like "please, stay and abuse me as much as you want".

When she returns to base line, she will be rational and she will understand without any problem things that while disregulated are like another language to her. The only thing that works is to shut up and wait for her to return to base line alone. But she keeps saying that my silence is what makes her angrier.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[onelittleladybug]

Im so sorry JoeBPD81 

She most likely will change her mind, or what do you think?

Is there anything you can do to change this pattern? Can you please describe the silence that bothers her? Maybe there is something there to look at. When you go to study do you give a time frame for yourself and her or do you keep reading until you're done without a time limit?

[JoeBPD81]

I'm very lost, I don't know if I can describe anything accurately.

I don't talk much. It's a bit pathological. After 18 months at a job, a workmate told me she thought I was autistic. Weird as I can write non stop, but I always think I have nothing to say. I can't interrupt someone that is talking. So if I think about something to say, when the other person has stopped talking, the topic is gone. Or I've been really listening and not thinking about what to say. After thinking what to say, I can think of 10 reasons why not to say it, so I end up just nodding, or something. I told her this before me met . She said it would be wonderful instead of all the people screaming in her life.

I'm very self concious about it. So if you say to me "say something!" or "Tell me what are you thinking" it's the worst thing. I can't for the life of me think something to say. And I feel really useless.

She interprets this as me keeping secrets.

The thing is, my life is them. She and the kids. So outside them, the only thing I have to tell is silly anecdotes from work, weird thoughts that I think, something I've seen online... .When I tell her things like that, she sometimes say "you tell me things nobody asked you, so you're covering for something". She used to study the same degree, and left, so she doesn't want to hear anything from my studies. And I wish I could share that with her, because she liked it a lot. If I give her news of a friend that has written me, or texted me, she assumes I talk to them all the time, and I must be venting about her non stop. That would be understandable if I did it, but I don't do it, I write here anonimously, and everyone around me is just puzzled and in the dark. I know she doesn't believe I don't talk about her with my friends or family. She doesn't believe I barely talk with anyone at all. So I'm always too awkward about mentioning something or not.

She would literaly don't say even good morning, even as a response when I say it. And she would lock herself in the batroom or in the kitchen without saying a word for hours. I stay with the kids, not knowing what is happening, or what we are going to do... .And when she's finally in the same room with me I ask ":)o you fancy a coffee with me?" And she says "No, I'm gonna have it alone, you don't talk to me... ."

I mostly just go to my room to study, and I try to tell her I'm available. If I go to the library, I text her often. I don't give a time frame because I mortly don't know. I can't plan it. If I concentrate I try to stay as long as I can. If I don't I come back or I change places... .I try to be close to them until the exam is coming and I've read 15% of the materials. She always critizices that I go, the way I study, the place I go, the breaks I take , that I'm not spending time with the kids, or that she doesn't believe I'm studying and I'm a sneaky bastxrd, that if she offered sex, suddently I wouldn't have that much to study... .When I finaly can open the book, all those sentences pop up in my mind and I can't concentrate.  Then she says "I always let you study!". I offer to take the kids to a park (when maybe it's raining) or we can pack our things an go to my mothers for some days so you are in peace (which is hell on earth, and her dog makes her really really sick).

I thought I could pull off studying only after 9pm, when the kids are asleep. But then is when she wants to talk, so I stay and 11pm comes, and I'm too tired to study. I've tried to wake up earlier and study before work. But I kept sleeping less and less, and feeling awful.

I'm happy when I miss time of studying to have quality family time. But it's usually doing nothing and waiting. Waiting 2 hours for the kids to put on the clothes to go to a park, waiting one hour because she has locked herself in the bathroom... .Or she has left the house because she's so mad for something the kids did. The kids are really mean to her, and to me sometimes.  So maybe we wake up at 8, on a saturday, and we leave for a park at 1 PM, and we have done nothing for 5 hours, but stoping fights betwwen the kids, asking them to dress or put on the shoes, discussing why they suddently don't want to go... .The kids demand constant atention, and they can't focus at all in the task at hand. They get very agressive with each other after 3 minutes of playing or talking, and then with us when we intervene. So it's really tiring and stressing. I try to back her up in everything. But sometimes she would turn her back on me, and tell me in front of them that they are kids and of course they do this or that (same thing she was lecturing them about 5 minutes earlier), or just say she is fed up with all 3 of us. When I was doing nothing but colaborating.

So after all that, I think I should have been studying at least 2 of the 5 hours lost. And I would feel more acomplished.

Every 10 minutes one of the kids is crying. Because the other one is making fun of him or has just hit him. Most days my gf ends up crying too, of frustration or because they have told her the most awful things. So there is never a good time to leave to study. I think at least I set an example that I do my duty, whether I like it or not. I don't make a fuss about having homework, I just do it. But she says not her nor the kids believe I'm really studying.

-----

I'm at my wits end.  Last night she texted me she wanted to forget the whole day. I asked if that included breaking up with me. And she just said "the whole day". She had medication at night so I don't have a clue where we stand.

[onelittleladybug]

I'm at my wits end.  Last night she texted me she wanted to forget the whole day. I asked if that included breaking up with me. And she just said "the whole day". She had medication at night so I don't have a clue where we stand.

So she took it back. What kind of medication? Im thinking it would have to be highly mind altering to make you question her later decision.

Im going to read really carefully before offering any advice on the reading schedule and the burden of all this. It does sound like a lot Joe, you must be exhausted. My very first quick thought is that you two need some alone time. Is there any chance you can get away for a weekend just the two of you? Do I remember correctly that the kids are yours and not hers?

[JoeBPD81]

It's a contant that in the morning she takes back the nice things she had said at night. She sends me hearts and tells me she loves me, or thanks me for everything, just to say the next day "I was high and I didn't mean to tell you that"

The kids are hers, not mine. If they were mine I wouldn't consent them to be mean to her.

After 4 years of neglecting parental visits, their father wants to have them for a month. But we can't trust him, and he's a stranger to the kids. He's capable of leaving them on the street and call her to pick them up. And he lives 350 miles away.

The very few moments we had without the kids in the last months, she acted as if she were scared of me. She said "I should be able to be happy that you don't have to work and spend the morning with you. But the change in routine freaks me out so much that I panic". In her state today, she wouldn't want to be alone with me.

I have surgery next Monday and I'll be home some days. I don't know what to expect.

[smart_storm26]

Hello Joe,

I would love to help you here.

I will come to your girlfriend's BPD later. But before that there are certain things I want to point out on how you are judging yourself.

You said 'After 18 months at a job, a workmate told me she thought I was autistic'. Never ever define yourself based on what a random person in your life thinks. If you suspect you have autism, google the symptoms or better consult a therapist and confirm it before labelling yourself as an autist.

But what I instead think you have is 'lack of confidence'

You are a good listener but when it comes to you expressing yourself, you worry whether your response will be good enough or valid enough. Confident men do not worry like this. They say what they really want to say and do not get so caught up in what people will think of them. If you end up saying something stupid, you can always apologize so do not be so strict on yourself and control/filter your responses.

This is important because in the eyes of women (BPD or Non-BPD), confident men always look worthy and attractive. Whereas on the other hand if a man seems to be lacking in confidence, he doesn't look so attractive especially to women. There are some wonderful articles online on how to raise your confidence and self-esteem without changing yourself for others. I suggest you read them. Maybe staying in a relationship with a BPD girl has affected your confidence or perhaps you never had high confidence to begin with, doesnt matter. You can always start from today and improve.


Other instances where I find you are lacking in confidence

You said ':)o you fancy a coffee with me?' To the woman this literally reads like 'I know I am miserable but would you be kind enough to have coffee with me?'

A confident man would have said 'I would like to have coffee with you now. Are you up for it or you are busy?'


You said 'I asked if that included breaking up with me. And she just said "the whole day"'

What I believe she means from this is she is still not totally wanting to break up with you but she wants to forget that day. She wants to see a new day when she sees you being a man who is confident about himself, doesn't have self-doubts, stands up for himself and knows how to deal with things. Your girlfriend is a mess. She knows it. She is wanting to see in you that 'You are not a mess yourself'

Always remember Strong, confident men always look attractive and confident men never doubt their worth, never stop standing up for themselves and their near ones.

I believe you missed 'Standing up' in some occasions. I will explain.

You said 'Most days my gf ends up crying too, of frustration or because they have told her the most awful things'. I bet you never scolded your kids in front of her and telling them with authority never to say such awful things to their mother. Try doing that. When one of your kids makes fun of the other, do not hesitate to scold the guilty one (even in front of your girlfriend) and warning them never to indulge in such behavior. Have you ever done that? A real man would do that. It's called standing up for your near ones (in this case, your wife, the kid who got bullied)

The good news for you is no one is born with confidence or guts. It can be learned. You can start being a real man from today.


You know your girlfriend has BPD. People with BPD often project negativity on others to hide their own lack of emotional maturity. Hence it is even more important for the guy to be in absolute control of himself. Are you in control of yourself?

Here's what you can do:

1. Stop doubting yourself and thinking you are miserable even if people tell you so. You are a wonderful person. Remember how good a suggestion you gave me in my post?
2. Stand up for what you need. You need to study 5 hours a day? Make sure you do and don't let anything deter you. If your wife complains, tell her politely that you know what you have to do and that you will take care of the kids and everything else apart from studying
3. Set boundaries on what you will tolerate from your wife and kids and what you wont. State clearly to them
4. When she is having a splitting episode and you decide to isolate yourself to prevent things from heating up, don't just leave without saying anything. Set clear expectations. Tell her 'Listen I hate having fights with you as I love you... .so I will talk to you again once you calm down'. If she needs time to calm down, give her the time

If you want respect from others even from kids, you first have to respect yourself without a shadow of doubt.

[JoeBPD81]

Thanks for taking the time to write, and helping.

I don't consider myself autistic at all. It was just an example of how little I talk. I don't have an interest in talking more. I like myself this way, although I can understand when it's a problem. I have to talk with people at work, I grant or deny social help to unemployed people, so it's not an easy subject, people cry at my table, threaten me, and insult me and I have to be firm about it.

As you can see by my posts, I can't summarize, when I have something to say, it usually comes in 4-30 pages. I know for a fact people don't listen that long. It sounds so tiring to even think about trying. I don't like to talk without thinking first. I can talk to strangers when there is something to discuss, and I can talk important things with good friends, but I can't do small talk.

Of course, a great part of that is lack of confidence. You are right. Also, I grew up with two "real men" who talk about anything with confidence,my father and older brother. They were my role models. As soon as I started learning from any subject, I discovered they would talk with total confidence about things they knew nothing about, and they were adamant about saying things that were dead wrong. I didn't want to be like them anymore. You can't learn anything while you think you know everything. You learn when you accept the possibility that what you already know might be wrong, or incomplete.

I don't have an interest in looking confidence to a woman, when I'm not. If they don't like a man that is insecure, keep looking, it's OK. I am attracted to insecure people, I find them more sincere. Most people's insecurity is buried under some self defense mechanism.

Some other part is that I trully understand she is suffering a lot, and I can't be hard on her. I should be firmer and set clearer boundaries, but I'm not recovered from the fear or her killing herself. I really see she doesn't want to live. I don't want that one day she's gone, and my comfort is that I was assertive with her. I know I have to change things here, but I don't wanna lose sight of that. One person in my family killed himself, and 3 more let themselves die for refusing treatment. I understand what is to feel no interest in being alive. She's not my responsibility, but I don't want to wash my hands either.

When she is at her base line, she says I'm the most balanced person she's heard about. When she is upset, it upsets her how balanced I am. She doesn't think I am a mess.

I spend most of my time scolding the kids, one or both. "I'm in trouble" because yesterday "I made them cry" they say the table shook with my voice... .But they were misbehaving 10 minutes after the screams. I don't usually scream, but I did a little theater, and then asked them if we have to scream like a crazy person (as they do) in order to be heard by them. I explained, but they are a bit scared about the screams the day after... .Or so he tells the mom to get away with no studying his exam. Because 20 minutes prior to telling his mom he was so scared of me, he was telling me he loved me and asking me questions about a videogame.

I expect my GF to reason, so I don't talk to her the same way as to the kids. I usually come across as too strict to the kids in her eyes.

Part of the problem is that I am reacting. I didn't have time to think about what I want. They needed a place to stay, and I loved them, so I opened my house to them. Every day is difficult, so I react to the challenge at hand. For example, I'm not motivated to study, I don't enjoy it, I don't need it... .So any obstacle makes it not worthy to try. Only when it is unavoidable, I tell myself I don't want to quit, and I get it done.

I am aware of my flaws, I hope that doesn't mean I'm not a man. But I'm working my way up to standing up for myself.

[smart_storm26]

First of all I feel for you. Its not easy going through all this. Also I am not trying to judge you... .just wanted to help.

Few things:

"I discovered they would talk with total confidence about things they knew nothing about, and they were adamant about saying things that were dead wrong". That's not confidence. That's arrogance. A confident man speaks confidently on things he knows he is correct and when he doesn't have knowledge on something he humbly accepts his lack of information. This is what differentiates confident men from narcissists. Narcissists know it all. They can never be wrong. They will even argue with the subject expert who knows much more than them.

Are you sure those men whom you had painted as real men are indeed real men? Be a confident man, not a narcissist

"I don't have an interest in looking confidence to a woman, when I'm not. If they don't like a man that is insecure, keep looking, it's OK". You don't become confident for anybody else in this world. You do it for yourself. You do it to become a better man in your eyes and not to please others. Also remember that insecurities and happiness are arch rivals. Your insecurities will often prevent you from becoming truly happy. Its absolutely ok to love someone who has insecurities but you may want to look into your own insecurities if they are affecting your happiness

"Part of the problem is that I am reacting. I didn't have time to think about what I want". Amidst all the chaos, sometimes try to bring the focus back to yourself, take out some time for yourself and ask yourself 'What do I want?'. We all need to do it from time to time

"I am aware of my flaws, I hope that doesn't mean I'm not a man". Accepting your flaws actually makes you a man. Its not easy accepting your own flaws. In fact borderlines project because they fail to accept their own flaws

I wish you well and hope you can come out of all this and develop a wonderful relationship with your girlfriend and kids. I hope things work out for you

[JoeBPD81]

Hey, thanks again. I knew you were trying to help and I appreciated it I took it with humour, and I appreciate honesty in criticism, not only validating my feelings.

Even if I do the things I believe in, it's true she probably doesn't see me as "manly enough". Oh, that sounds so sexist!  "confident enough" is better.  And that has an effect on her. I try to compensate all the bullies and narcissists in her life, as she tries to the kids. And now if those efforts is getting results.

I'm not going to become a bully, I don't believe in that, I don't know how, and it's not in my nature. But I can make sure I'm not a victim either. And that's what I'm working on.

[JoeBPD81]

* I meant "none of those efforts".

There seem to be no fixing us this time. We got into some more misunderstandings while trying to talk. I'm really down and I forgot all the tools.  She tells me what I feel and what I think and believes it more than what I say.

She has no job, no prospect of future for the kids, to provide for them. She's been looking for 3 years, to no avail. Her family is awful, very nasty and unreliable. Now she faces the first long visit of the kids to the ex, in 4 years. The ex owes them thousands of dollars in child support, and never wanted to see them. We don't know how to make that visit happen,  he's supposed to pick them up twice a month, but wants them delivered to his door, 350 miles away.  He never took care of the kids and he beat the older one, when they lived together.  She has heart problems because she's super underweight... .  The kids are awful and the summer is coming with 24/7 time with them... .  BUT what "drives her crazy "is thinking about our relationship? What she needs to end is a guy that gives them a house and it's good to get and the kids?  A guy who tries to understand her disorder and listens?... .? I  tried to tell her that I think she is overwhelmed by everything else, and focusing on breaking up, because the rest has no fixing. And it went very wrong.

[AtticWisdom]

Hi Joe! I have to admit that I am very new here, so please take any advice from me with a grain of salt. However I felt compelled to reply because your situation reminds me a lot of my own, or how mine used to be. My girlfriend also has children, and a troublesome ex, and during a significant span of our relationship she was unemployed while I was both working and going to school full-time. Granted, my SO and I have had certain benefits, in that her family has been supportive of her (although for a time they were not on speaking terms). But nonetheless we've had incredibly dark periods which sound like yours right now.

I guess what I want to say is: Don't give up hope. If you can survive the split, the relationship can too. You may feel hopeless now, but remember that usually there is a yo-yo effect going on, and it is going to snap back up. When I was in your shoes before, I always just kind of went with the flow... .if she said we were breaking up, and I couldn't convince her otherwise at the time, then I'd go my own way, find some space and let her have her own. But I never actually considered it "over," because (whether I thought I would or not) I would hear from her in a day or two, in a much different head-space, and we could patch things up almost immediately. Try not to say things that you can't take back, even if she does. She'll gloss over her own words, but not yours, not if they strike a chord.

Also, I agree with Smart_Storm about finding your confidence and masculinity. I've had to go searching for that myself, recently, because I used to have it (to a certain extent) but somehow lost it, and it has caused my relationship to suffer. When I was working and studying, and I had friends and a band and a life outside of the relationship, that confidence seemed to come about almost naturally. But I moved across the state to be with my SO, am looking for a new job, am disconnected from my friends and music... .and you'd be surprised how much that can cause a shift for the worse in a BPD partner. Being a doormat and a sad-sack is more my natural state, and I sink back into it easily. I like to think that I am "sensitive" as a male, but I think that we sometimes excuse weak behavior under that banner as well. BPD SO's seem to like boundaries and assertiveness, no matter how they may rage against them at first. Don't be controlling, just take care of yourself first and foremost. The rest will follow.

[JoeBPD81]

Thanks a lot, AtticWisdom

I've been on another forum where families and sufferers are mixed. I explained my case and everyone was telling me to flee. To stop trying.

I even had a nightmare where an astronaut was trying to save a woman, and died trying. I woke up before knowing if he saved her. The astronaut was "played" by an actor my GF likes. So I thought, even the universe is sending me signals that trying to save her is killing me. It was a brutal bloody death.

I cried when I read your message. I thought you were going to say "My story was like yours... .and ended" But you gave me a bit of hope. I felt hopeless before, like everything was lost. And it's true that even that passes and it might not be final.

Today she told me it breaks her heart to see me this sad. And what we've talked it's a bit less dark. Let's see.

[AtticWisdom]

Hi Joe, I saw your reply to me here and on my own post, and I wanted to say thank you. I'm glad to be able to help in any small way, and I appreciate your helpful comments. I hope that things are continuing to improve, just remember to take care of yourself.

You recommended a book to me (which I fully intend to pick up), and I wanted to do the same. Appropriately coinciding with my most recent troubles with my GF, a friend recommended this book to me, it's called "No More Mr. Nice Guy." I was hesitant at first because it comes off as a "Men's Rights" manifesto, but I assure you that it isn't. While the author takes some liberties with terminology, it's really a book about co-dependent personalities, which I think that many of us "nons" here probably are. It's focused for men, but I think it might be helpful for either sex. When I read it, I saw a lot of myself in it, and the ways in which I could improve my own overall health and outlook. Just a suggestion, but what amazed me is how much overlap there seems to be between the advice in that book and the general advice that I see on this site.

[smart_storm26]

'No More Mr. Nice Guy' is a wonderful book. I have read it myself and I had been one of those nice guys in the past until I realized I should take my own stand and take responsibility for my own needs. This book is an eye opener for many

[JoeBPD81]

We're giving each other space, I don't know if she is still thinking about leaving. I took the boys today so she can be alone and relax. I had a huge meal before my mouth surgery this Monday (I won't eat solid in a week or so).
Yesterday she was thinking about death again, it was very stressing, I couldn't leave my job... .Fortunately, she never things about "right now" she had to arrange things for the kids, and in the mean time, the worst passes,  and she cancels the plan. But I'm not confident until it's gone. She still sees me and rage comes, she can't explain it, and she's sick of having feelings that make no sense. She says "I should be comforted by your presence, you're good and calm... ."
I saw on the other forum some advice for a suicide woman, and I liked it, so I PM the writer, a guy with BPD.  He replied a mail so negative it crushed me. He said to not waste my life and health on her,  he also said that "good Samaritans" like me made him sick in the stomach. When his post to this woman was very sensitive and positive.
All this and not much sleep and work and hours and hours of study made me feel I was losing a grip on reality.
Last night my gf told me she was almost happy. She got through the day, and she didn't harm anyone, including herself.
She took my offer of a free day (she's always with the kids and it's exhausting). So there's a couple of good signs. I wish I could give her a hug and feel she's back. But for now I'm glad I finished my exams and I have one less thing to worry about, for some days at least.

[smart_storm26]

Just a small suggestion. Cant you leave your kids with someone and you and your wife go watch a movie in the mean time (just the two of you). It will be a fresh change from what you two guys do daily.

[JoeBPD81]

That would be nice, but it has been long since she would enjoy even the idea. Mostly since we live together. If I push it now, she can throw the towell. She still hasn't told me she is not leaving after the school year.

Next week I have my surgery and I'll be some days at home, no work, and the kids are in school... .And I'm not looking forward to that. She's been cold before, and then she comes back. But when she is like that, it doesn't seem posible. She gives me the vibe that I irritate her just by existing. Being alone only so she can avoid me and it's all awkward, it's not great.

Otherwise no, we can't leave the kids with anyone. Even in medical emergencies they give us hell to take them half an hour. My parents are older and live in other city. I can't involve them, they would freak out with the behavior of the kids. Last time we did that, go to a movie, she freaked out and bursted out crying, and we almost leave, I don't remember why we stayed. But she asumed I did that a lot with my ex, and she couldn't stand the thought.

I would settle for less. Watch an episode of a tv-show together... .Let's see how the weekend goes. Tomorrow we have a party at the kid's school where they do a little performance. I hope it's not horrible, not the performance, but all the waiting and such. I don't take distance from the kids, we both try to be there for them, but appart from that I'm doing my thing and she's doing hers. We've... .Well she's been talking this evening about nothing in particular. But not saying how she can't stand looking at me is an improvement since yesterday.

[JoeBPD81]

Hey,

my surgery was delayed. I have to come to work when I thought I'd had a free week, bummer.

She's still talking about leaving, about how this can't be fixed. She says the bottom line is that she'll never believe someone can love her, or that she deserves anything good. Her words are harsh, but her manner is less distant.

The kids seem to be conspiring against any good feeling on her. They would do anything but what we ask of them. They tell us we are the best parents in the world, and a minute later that they preffer to live in a dumpster than living with us. The older (S10) has an important exam today, he needed to study maybe 20 minutes. But he spent the whole evening, about 5 hours just wasting time in the silliest ways, half of it making fun of the little one (S6) until this one cried, and then he laught about making them cry. The little one can't stay away of his older brother either, so when he's not in trouble he asks for it. Everyday it's like this. And she needs to sometimes go for a walk, in orther not to strangle them.

So, any improvement in her mood, they take it away in 5 minutes. We can't even have a coffee together without having to get up to put out some fire. They can be entertained, ignoring us, we sit for the coffee, and both of them appear by the table asking for something or saying "He hit me!".

So, still lost.