Recalling all the subtle emotional abuse and a question

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I'm just trying to gather information about the revelation I had last week that this really was an emotionally abusive relationship from someone who on the outside was so sweet, gentle, and caring. Once the idealization phase ended (and even before) I see the signs as clear as day. Part of me is doing this as a way to just vent, and reinforce what I am getting away from. Part of me is doing it to see if any of you have similar experiences and did you only realize when it was too late.

1. A couple weeks in we were at work trying to figure out what movie to go see. She said movie A, I said movie B, she said movie A, I asked her to really consider movie B at which point she raised her voice and told me flat out movie B wasn't an option.

2. That very night I tried to talk to her about being upset that she yelled at me, and she asked ":)o you want to break up?" I spent the next 20 minutes consoling and reassuring her, and then when she was calm we didn't even talk about my initial hurt.

3. We made plans to go camping with her family and I agreed to buy the tent, and air mattress. I didn't see the wal-mart by my work where she told me to go. When I came to her place I told her I didn't know where it was, and I asked her if I could give her the money so she could get it tomorrow. She raged at me. Absolute rage and yelled at me. So I went out that night to get it.

4. Withholding sex from me for being too tired or not in the mood. And then when we'd have arguments she'd say "We can't be together we aren't intimate anymore." As if it is my fault. To go along with this, she would ask me for things (buy her stuff, take her places) and then say she'd have sex with me afterwards. Usually, she didn't. Whenever I tried to touch her, begin to try and be intimate she'd push me off.

5. Her dog would wake me up at night, and I asked her if we could train him to sleep at the bottom of the bed. She refused, and when I would sleep on the couch she'd bring it up as another reason to show how I treated her bad.

6. We had a disagreement and we rekindled after the weekend and she told me "My family planned a trip to Las Vegas for a concert do you want to go?" I said yes. She then said "Oh well we already got the tickets so you can still come but you'd have to find something to do during the concert."

7. The day before she left for Vegas I agreed to watch her dog. I asked if she could bring him to my place after work so I could be with family as I was going to be stressed that she was there. she said "If you want to take him there one day after work you can. But I'm not driving him over."

8. When she came back from Vegas I was upset because she was out all night, and every time I asked her to go out and have fun with  me she'd say no. I was very hurt, and told her I didn't know if I could do this anymore. That disagreement ended with her being silent for 3 days until I finally submitted and apologized AND it ended with me telling her that I promised to take her out to fancy places so we could go out and have fun.

9. In the very beginning she asked me to stay over, and I said I would prefer to be at home tonight. She texted me at night saying "I can't believe I told you I wanted you to come over and you didn't do it."

10. Any of my female co-workers if they spoke to me she'd say "Are you screwing them? i don't want you to talk to them."

11. Early on I went to a dive bar with my brother (literally my favorite bar where no one other than us is under 60 years old). She asked me where I was and I told her. She verbally berated me, and told me that I was cheating on her, and how could I be so mean.

12. When she was at yoga school last summer she had asked her mom to come walk the dog by 10 am. Her mom told her no. She called me, and I said I'd be over at noon. She yelled at me and berated me for being so insensitive and she needed it done now. I relented.

13. When she was yoga school she had to be there every other weekend. The other weekend she'd go shopping or do what she wanted. I asked her if we could spend some quality time together (date night) at least one day during the free weekend. She said "This is my only free weekend, and I want to do things that I want." Keeping in my mind I'd spend my weekend watching her dog while she was at school.

14. We finally had a semi-decent conversation where I said I didn't want to suppress anymore so I would tell her when I didn't want to do something. The very next day we went to her community pool, and the person said it wasn't open yet. We went back to her place and she said she wouldn't accept this, and we were going back right now. I told her I didn't want to and I would meet her there when it opened. She looked at me with a blank stare and said "Come on. We're going." Complete dismissal of what we had just agreed on.

15. She was upset when I set a weekly spending budget with my money. I never told her how to spend her money, but she would always try to push the boundary I set for myself to save money, and pay off my loans. As she said, "I want a relationship where the man spends the money on the woman."

16. Every time I tried to talk about us she would get very angry or defensive or ask if I wanted to break up. That would turn into arguments and I would always apologize for my actions.  

I'm sure there are many more that will come up in my memory. Every time I write these things it just reinforces what I am not missing out on anymore.

And I will admit. I wasn't a saint either. I remember for her birthday she wanted to go to a bar I wasn't too fond of so I said "I must really love you because I really don't like this bar." Or when she did go to Vegas and I was really short with my answers when she reached out. I told her why though (my ex ex went there and cheated on me), because it made me very nervous and I didn't want to get any more nervous. It wasn't nice stuff by me at all times for sure.

I have one more question after this. Her ex before me was our coworker. I'm really considering reaching out to him just to see what his story is with her. Did he experience the same stuff. She made him out to be an evil controlling person. I will admit, he definitely had narcissistic traits. But I can't imagine this type of emotional abuse is new.

[roberto516]

I'm just trying to gather information about the revelation I had last week that this really was an emotionally abusive relationship from someone who on the outside was so sweet, gentle, and caring. Once the idealization phase ended (and even before) I see the signs as clear as day. Part of me is doing this as a way to just vent, and reinforce what I am getting away from. Part of me is doing it to see if any of you have similar experiences and did you only realize when it was too late.

1. A couple weeks in we were at work trying to figure out what movie to go see. She said movie A, I said movie B, she said movie A, I asked her to really consider movie B at which point she raised her voice and told me flat out movie B wasn't an option.

2. That very night I tried to talk to her about being upset that she yelled at me, and she asked ":)o you want to break up?" I spent the next 20 minutes consoling and reassuring her, and then when she was calm we didn't even talk about my initial hurt.

3. We made plans to go camping with her family and I agreed to buy the tent, and air mattress. I didn't see the wal-mart by my work where she told me to go. When I came to her place I told her I didn't know where it was, and I asked her if I could give her the money so she could get it tomorrow. She raged at me. Absolute rage and yelled at me. So I went out that night to get it.

4. Withholding sex from me for being too tired or not in the mood. And then when we'd have arguments she'd say "We can't be together we aren't intimate anymore." As if it is my fault. To go along with this, she would ask me for things (buy her stuff, take her places) and then say she'd have sex with me afterwards. Usually, she didn't. Whenever I tried to touch her, begin to try and be intimate she'd push me off.

5. Her dog would wake me up at night, and I asked her if we could train him to sleep at the bottom of the bed. She refused, and when I would sleep on the couch she'd bring it up as another reason to show how I treated her bad.

6. We had a disagreement and we rekindled after the weekend and she told me "My family planned a trip to Las Vegas for a concert do you want to go?" I said yes. She then said "Oh well we already got the tickets so you can still come but you'd have to find something to do during the concert."

7. The day before she left for Vegas I agreed to watch her dog. I asked if she could bring him to my place after work so I could be with family as I was going to be stressed that she was there. she said "If you want to take him there one day after work you can. But I'm not driving him over."

8. When she came back from Vegas I was upset because she was out all night, and every time I asked her to go out and have fun with  me she'd say no. I was very hurt, and told her I didn't know if I could do this anymore. That disagreement ended with her being silent for 3 days until I finally submitted and apologized AND it ended with me telling her that I promised to take her out to fancy places so we could go out and have fun.

9. In the very beginning she asked me to stay over, and I said I would prefer to be at home tonight. She texted me at night saying "I can't believe I told you I wanted you to come over and you didn't do it."

10. Any of my female co-workers if they spoke to me she'd say "Are you screwing them? i don't want you to talk to them."

11. Early on I went to a dive bar with my brother (literally my favorite bar where no one other than us is under 60 years old). She asked me where I was and I told her. She verbally berated me, and told me that I was cheating on her, and how could I be so mean.

12. When she was at yoga school last summer she had asked her mom to come walk the dog by 10 am. Her mom told her no. She called me, and I said I'd be over at noon. She yelled at me and berated me for being so insensitive and she needed it done now. I relented.

13. When she was yoga school she had to be there every other weekend. The other weekend she'd go shopping or do what she wanted. I asked her if we could spend some quality time together (date night) at least one day during the free weekend. She said "This is my only free weekend, and I want to do things that I want." Keeping in my mind I'd spend my weekend watching her dog while she was at school.

14. We finally had a semi-decent conversation where I said I didn't want to suppress anymore so I would tell her when I didn't want to do something. The very next day we went to her community pool, and the person said it wasn't open yet. We went back to her place and she said she wouldn't accept this, and we were going back right now. I told her I didn't want to and I would meet her there when it opened. She looked at me with a blank stare and said "Come on. We're going." Complete dismissal of what we had just agreed on.

15. She was upset when I set a weekly spending budget with my money. I never told her how to spend her money, but she would always try to push the boundary I set for myself to save money, and pay off my loans. As she said, "I want a relationship where the man spends the money on the woman."

16. Every time I tried to talk about us she would get very angry or defensive or ask if I wanted to break up. That would turn into arguments and I would always apologize for my actions.  

I'm sure there are many more that will come up in my memory. Every time I write these things it just reinforces what I am not missing out on anymore.

And I will admit. I wasn't a saint either. I remember for her birthday she wanted to go to a bar I wasn't too fond of so I said "I must really love you because I really don't like this bar." Or when she did go to Vegas and I was really short with my answers when she reached out. I told her why though (my ex ex went there and cheated on me), because it made me very nervous and I didn't want to get any more nervous. It wasn't nice stuff by me at all times for sure.

I have one more question after this. Her ex before me was our coworker. I'm really considering reaching out to him just to see what his story is with her. Did he experience the same stuff. She made him out to be an evil controlling person. I will admit, he definitely had narcissistic traits. But I can't imagine this type of emotional abuse is new.

[stimpy]

Literally everything you wrote down resonated with me, and some of the actual words said, and criss cross of dialogue, actions and the emotions generated were the same (save for some name changes of course - I've never been to Las Vegas).

I've posted before about how covert and subtle the abuse is, and basically what I learned thinking about it in hindsight is that whatever I did, it didn't really matter, it was never going to be right. That pretty much was the whole point, it was never going to right, and I was going to be shamed for whatever I did. I think now that that is how my ex has conducted her life, by shaming and guilting those close to her, and by doing that gaining control of the relationships. It's a horrible cycle of control and manipulation.

I am so glad I am out of it.

As for contacting an ex, yes, I came very, very, close, but in the end decided not to. His relationship with her is his business, and my relationship with her is my business, and I am glad that I didn't. But that's just me, we each have to do what is right for ourselves. One thing worth noting as well, is that my expwBPD, described her ex boyfriend before me, as a narcissist.

[roberto516]

Thanks stimpy,

Yeah the manipulation and control hit me like a ton of bricks after it ended. I even told her, not a good idea, that the reason she wanted to be single and work in herself was because I finally stood up for myself and wasn't going to compromise on "mutual work". Well that put her completely out of control and so she retreated to being single so she could "work on herself". What does she get to do when single? Be in complete control of her situation/keep options open to find someone who will play the role she needs.

The reason I wanted to talk to the ex was that she said "we broke up because he wrote a list of what I had to do better in the relationship." I'm somewhat curious if that list wasn't similar to the things I wasn't going to compromise on. Such as genuine date nights, communication, more attempts at affection, etc. Now that I know I really wonder if it was her way to rationalize because, again, he wasn't going to allow her to be in complete control anymlre. He had flipped the tables finally.

[Rayban]

Roberto

I'm curious on how did the ex behave around her after the breakup? Did he seem distraught? Notice any physical changes (weight loss/gain)?

I ask because I  suspected she was seeing a coworker when we worked together. I just remember this guy coming in the morning looking haggard. I remember thinking he was getting her special treatment.

[roberto516]

Roberto

I'm curious on how did the ex behave around her after the breakup? Did he seem distraught? Notice any physical changes (weight loss/gain)?

I ask because I  suspected she was seeing a coworker when we worked together. I just remember this guy coming in the morning looking haggard. I remember thinking he was getting her special treatment.

He had Lyme's disease and was out of work for about 2 months. I suspect, very much so based on how she was with me after my grandpop died, that she wasn't really able to care for him in that time. So he never came back to work after that, and he quit. From what I can gather, he probably dumped her, so she says. I spoke to a co-worker last week about it all and she said my ex told her she had dumped him. Anyway, maybe 1 month into his leave of absence from work is when she told me they had broken up. I saw it beforehand as she made these off hand flirtatious remarks to me a couple times a week. And then he never came back.

But when she was speaking to me before we got together I remember her saying "I called him, and he said I still need to do work on myself." Then it kinda turned after we made out at her graduation party. She'd tell me "He asked to get lunch and talk." I told her to do what she felt was best. She didn't meet him. I remember her saying "He asked me to come to a funeral for his friend who passed away because he needs the emotional support." I told her to do what she felt was best. She didn't go. And then when we became official, which no one knew about at work until maybe 6 months after, he kept calling her trying to talk. He threatened her with pictures he had of her, etc. I still remember he was calling her non stop and she asked me if I could go home because she thought he would show up to her condo. And then one Sunday night we were at her place watching tv, and the doorbell rang. She went down, and brought up canoli's which were her favorite snack. He had driven there, and dropped them off. Finally she told him she would call the cops if he didn't stop, and that was the end of it. Last message she ever got from him, that I know, was him telling her he had found a new girlfriend. I still remember the distraught look on her face.

I remember how cautious she was with me and kinda depressed when we got together. She said she missed him, etc. Deep down now, I bet it was a subconscious way to test whether I'd stay with her and support her. But yeah, apparently he's doing really well now. He started a company while working with me and it's very successful now.

But all of his behaviors mimicked mine. The refusal to try again without genuine effort being put in, the discard from her when she got me, and then the begging mixed with rage and threats. I did all of it too! And here I was thinking "This guy is a lunatic! Doesn't he get that she doesn't love him anymore?" Well now I know exactly what he was going through. Probably felt betrayed just like me. It's so odd. These are all reasons I kinda want to reach out and get his experience on what happened. I have seen him once or twice when he has stopped back up at work but we just say "Hi". I'm sure he knows we started dating once we put it all over facebook and stuff. So I don't think he hates me. He's probably relieved he's out of it .

Last thing. They live very very close to one another and I remember one day she went to the pharmacy and came home telling me she saw him and his girlfriend there. She also drove by him one day. She seemed very troubled. It makes me think that people with these traits really do feel strongly. She lost an attachment which probably still hurts her to this day if she is reminded of it. It's really interesting as I type it all out.

[Rayban]

Yup experienced that too. I met mine at my work. I remember when she was hired she imidiately attached to the guy that was showing her the ropes. I knew this guy for many years. He was the quiet type. Did his job well and never had conflict with anyone. Looking back, they would spend a lot of time together outside of work ( lunches, breaks) they were always together.

Then about the time we started talking to each other he suddenly became more recluse.  2 weeks after he left the company.  I know now that he did this to save himself and get away from her. Smart guy

After he left she was with me.  Throughout our break ups and recycles there were different guys always around her.  The pattern was the same.  They were elated in the beginning always stopping by her desk to chat, and laugh looking like they were having a good time.  Followed by periods of silence, and eventually these people would move on to other companies.  The streak ended with me.  She was the one who transfered to another department miles away.  After that is was over for us.  I just remember the guy who I suspected was one of my replacements looking sad and depressed .


This guy was very popular and easy going before her.  After he was a shell of himself.  Could have been because of other things going on in his life, but looking at my own experience this was because of her ability to proudly crush souls.

My advice is don't go talking about your ex to this guy It will get back to her, and you'll end up looking like the bad guy who won't let things go. There was a post on here where somone quoted an ex navy seal who lived by never divulging information. It will only sink the ship. His experience was his, and yours is yours.
 

[roberto516]

Yeah Rayban,

It's funny that I saw his emotional breakdown amd didn't see it as a gigantic red flag. I fell for the borderline waif victim story and thought "I'll treat her better than these scumbags". Well I'm just like everyone else now.

[stimpy]

I fell for the borderline waif victim story and thought "I'll treat her better than these scumbags". Well I'm just like everyone else now.

Yep, just the same, identical... .literally identical.

Next step... .make sure it never happens again.

[RomanticFool]

Hey Roberto,

My ex has just blamed me for her suicide attempt. Given the fact I haven't seen her for four months, I'm not quite sure how that works.

There was a whole litany of things that were similar to yours, such as only going to see the music she wanted to, only going to the galleries she wanted to, when we would meet up it would always have to be after seeing her son and I would be squeezed in. In fact there was nothing that made me feel I was really that important to her, so it is with great shock I hear that I am responsible for her suicide attempt.