pwBPD rage is like a thunderstorm. How do I get out of the path?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

It's the season for severe weather. Had a tornado warning pop up the other morning. A few days before that, a tree in the neighborhood was struck by lightning.

The analogy just struck me while I was sitting here trying to figure out how to articulate things. My wife, my pwBPD, experiences rage storms, just like a summer thunderstorm. I can almost FEEL the rage before it starts to show physical signs, like a barometer dropping. The first physical indications are a facial expression, or moving away from me. The dark clouds. Then the lightning strike. A hurtful accusation, usually completely untrue but sometimes with just enough accuracy that the hairs stand up on the back of my neck.

When the rage storm is in full force, EVERYONE can feel it. Tonight, we were on a 2 hour car ride and D3 was SCREAMING at me and my pwBPD to stop fighting. I did stop. She didn't. I did the only thing I have ever done, and I just kept my voice down but engaged.

I don't want to engage anymore. Will she continue? Will she really eventually get that I'm not going to participate? Is it as simple as just stopping? Has that REALLY worked for anyone else?

Edit: I meant to continue this by saying the rage storm subsides and we go back to a "normal" drive, but while the storm is raging, a lot of damage gets done. It's much better, I think, to avoid the storm and let it blow in and out without throwing myself into the middle of it. It makes sense when I talk about it abstractly but in real life, does that really work?

[DaddyBear77]

It's the season for severe weather. Had a tornado warning pop up the other morning. A few days before that, a tree in the neighborhood was struck by lightning.

The analogy just struck me while I was sitting here trying to figure out how to articulate things. My wife, my pwBPD, experiences rage storms, just like a summer thunderstorm. I can almost FEEL the rage before it starts to show physical signs, like a barometer dropping. The first physical indications are a facial expression, or moving away from me. The dark clouds. Then the lightning strike. A hurtful accusation, usually completely untrue but sometimes with just enough accuracy that the hairs stand up on the back of my neck.

When the rage storm is in full force, EVERYONE can feel it. Tonight, we were on a 2 hour car ride and D3 was SCREAMING at me and my pwBPD to stop fighting. I did stop. She didn't. I did the only thing I have ever done, and I just kept my voice down but engaged.

I don't want to engage anymore. Will she continue? Will she really eventually get that I'm not going to participate? Is it as simple as just stopping? Has that REALLY worked for anyone else?

Edit: I meant to continue this by saying the rage storm subsides and we go back to a "normal" drive, but while the storm is raging, a lot of damage gets done. It's much better, I think, to avoid the storm and let it blow in and out without throwing myself into the middle of it. It makes sense when I talk about it abstractly but in real life, does that really work?

[Turkish]

I'm glad you backed away,  but you can only control you.  So sad that your D3 had to scream for you to stop.  Too bad her mom didn't pick up on that as you did.   I won't suggest going silent treatment, as this makes things worse, but looking back now,  can you think of where you started to engage? I get that this was in a long car trip and you were trapped.  Hard to walk away in this specific situation.

[DaddyBear77]

The issue that bothers me the most is how D3 is so deeply affected by all of this. The anxiety this causes her is evident in SO many aspects of her personality. I am to the point where I need some professional guidance on how to help D3 deal with this.

But, I mean, the number one thing I need to do is obviously NOT engage in the arguments which result from this rage storm.

It comes down to this: I wish there was a way I could help my wife deal with the feelings of anger, panic, pain, and rage, while at the same time protecting myself from the direct attacks and baseless allegations.

I don't WANT to walk away from her pain, but when she starts firing off personal attacks and cutting me down, I start to feel the hurt and pain. Then, to avoid and deflect the hurt and pain, I JADE. Then, in a misguided effort to "help" her with HER pain, I make all the ridiculous commitments (which have been the subject of so many of my posts here!) When I don't meet those commitments, she feels MORE pain and the cycle escalates.

I THINK that's what's going on here. Does that sound right?

[formflier]

It's the season for severe weather.  

This is a great analogy.  One that I have used in the past.  It gives you hope because storms pass.  It also informs you about what you need to do while a storm is happening... .or when you see one coming.

Many of us have stood outside and hugged the metal flagpole... .and then continue to be shocked... .that we get hit by lighting.

The tools and personal determination can lessen the impact of the storms.  From time to time you will still get wet.  From time to time you will have to run inside and do something else (when you wanted to be outside) because of a storm that "blew in from nowhere"

You don't control the weather... .you do need to respect it.

 

I don't want to engage anymore. Will she continue? Will she really eventually get that I'm not going to participate? Is it as simple as just stopping? Has that REALLY worked for anyone else?

For a while she will continue... .it could be for a long while.  That's not important.  What is important is what YOU do.

It has worked for me.  Yet I know that I still live in a  place that has lots of storms... .I keep a raincoat handy.

I still "get busted".  That irks me to no end.  However, the "big picture" for FF is that I only get busted once... .perhaps twice (takes twice to confirm a circular argument).  It's rare I stick my toe in for the third time around.

A point of pride for me was once when my wife exclaimed... ."I don't know why I bother trying to talk to you" (she had been raging... mildly... .or building up to one).  I offered to give her my full attention later, when I really... .really wanted to spike the ball and "explain" it all to her... .

Dude... .disengage.  If you are in a car... .pull over at a fast food.  Get out and take the keys.  Go inside and have a cup of coffee.  Get one for your wife.  Something for your daughter.  Let your wife stay outside and rage if she wants... .or come in and discuss.  

Riding in a car with a raging pwBPD is dangerous.  Even more so with a child.  Just don't do it.  Let her react to you... .not the other way around.

FF

[byfaith]

I went out to the bathroom in the main plant area this morning and as I opened the door I glanced at the sign on the door, tornado shelter. We had to go out there one time when there were tornado sightings. At that time the men's bathroom had not been remodeled yet, it was a little uncomfortable waiting in there with men and women waiting for the storms to blow over but it was the safest place in the building. Sometimes it will suck having to get away and hide somewhere but at least for the moment you know you are safe.

From my wife I had to find my sanctuary places that I could go to get away from her "stuff". While I was there I sometimes enjoyed myself, I thought a lot about my situation, thought on how to communicate better, thought about the things I was doing or not doing to contribute to the problem. Finally my solution came over a period of time. It was a long process. 

For me it was hard to separate myself from her hurt. When I realized I wasn't "causing" her hurt it became easier to remove myself. I still hate that she hurts but I cannot fix it.

The last time about a week ago when she was getting in my face and my space and knocking stuff over in my room I told her I was going to call the police if she didn't stop. She stopped. 

[Lucky Jim]

Hey DB77, It's true that the BPD rage storm always blows over, but that doesn't mean there isn't a lot of damage in its wake.  When my BPDxW was triggered and into a full-blown tantrum, it was impossible to communicate with her.  Her eyes were like pinwheels.  The only thing that worked for me was to seek shelter from the storm.  I don't mean that to sound trite, because I kept an overnight bag in the trunk of my car for just such occasions.  Sad to say, I got to know the Clerk at the local ":)iscomfort" Inn, who gave me a "frequent flyer" discount.

LuckyJim

[formflier]

  because I kept an overnight bag in the trunk of my car for just such occasions. 

Unfortunately, I did this as well... many times.  It's been a long time (roughly 1.5 years... .maybe two) since I've had to do this. 

your pwBPD won't like this... .but it is effective.  Mine said things to me like... "if you are going to be wasting all that money on hotels... .where I don't know what you are doing or who with... .why not just get an apartment?"

I kept the response short and consistent... "Help me understand not allowing me to sleep as my doctor has prescribed?"  (I have several sleep issues... .they are lovely... .)

Eventually she was "exposed" and "shamed" in MC with the "biblical counselor" who couldn't fathom why she wouldn't let me sleep... .or if I was making it all up.  He "banned" her from speaking to anyone, other than God, after 10pm at night.  No electronics... .she was allowed to read her Bible and journal quietly. 

Sleep issues disappeared... .

To her credit... .she has largely left sleep issues alone since then.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

It's much better, I think, to avoid the storm and let it blow in and out without throwing myself into the middle of it. It makes sense when I talk about it abstractly but in real life, does that really work?

YES, ABSOLUTELY, YES, IT DOES WORK.

There are two key facts about avoiding a storm that may be difficult for you with your wife.

1. The wise person takes shelter at the FIRST signs of a storm. Rather than waiting for the tornado!

The first physical indications are a facial expression, or moving away from me. The dark clouds.

And this is when you act. First off, immediately STOP anything vaguely like JADEing, and take a quick time-out, maybe 5 minutes in the bathroom.

During your time away, plan how you are going to remove yourself from her presence quickly... .so you are mentally and physically ready to go when the storm (aka your wife) escalates to the next level.

Since this is BPD and dysregulation, not a storm, after preparing yourself to cope with the "bad" outcome, think about whether there is something you can validate. Maybe "Honey, you seem on edge. How are you feeling?"

Still be prepared to eject if that doesn't go well--often it won't.

2. Getting shelter from the storm doesn't make the storm (your wife) happy or protect anything else (D3) in the path of the storm.

A natural storm isn't vindictive--it isn't out to get THAT tree with lightning. Your wife, however, *IS* aiming her wrath at you, and will be very unhappy/uncomfortable if you remove yourself as a target. By getting out of the way, you are preventing her from using her coping mechanism/soothing mechanism (DB as the human xanax & emotional punching bag). As long as she is in storm mode, she will do anything she can to keep you in the crosshairs. You have to be willing to do MORE to get out of them than she is to put you back into them!

Further, she uses collateral damage to D3 as a way to manipulate YOU back into the crosshairs, where she wants you!

From what you tell us, your wife won't let you protect D3 from her short of physical force against your wife, and she's made it VERY clear she will escalate that far--the only possible safe way to deal with this is to call 911 and involve CPS to protect D3 from her abuse.

That's a harsh step, and she has to pass a harsh threshold before you will (or should!) take it. My suggestion for a threshold would be physical abuse D3. So far what you've described is that she rages at YOU, and the screaming (naturally) upsets D3... .and that D3 screams and gets upset, but she doesn't sooth her. These things aren't good, but they probably aren't bad enough to involve law enforcement yet.

Time to STOP thinking you can somehow protect D3 from the storm on your own, admit that the storm is going to snatch D3 from your arms, and go find your own shelter alone. NOW.

Make it a simple but hard decision between TWO real choices:

Is this bad enough to call police?
If so, dial 911.
If not, GET YOURSELF OUT.

There is no choice 3: "Stay and say some magic words that will dissipate the storm, so D3 doesn't get harmed."

The issue that bothers me the most is how D3 is so deeply affected by all of this. The anxiety this causes her is evident in SO many aspects of her personality.

In the short term, staying and allowing the storm to rage at you is harming D3.

Leaving D3 subject to the rage isn't the long-term solution to this... .but it won't make things significantly worse for D3 in the short term, and it is step one of protecting D3.

Step one is prove to yourself (and then your wife!) that your boundaries on this are rock-solid.

She rages at you because it "works". She gets emotional relief this way. If you (her target!) remove yourself immediately, and she's left alone with her (internal) rage, and D3 who will only scream and cry more if she is loud and scary, she won't get the "benefit" of venting her rage on you.

It will take consistent behavior on your part over an extended period of time, complete with willingness to sleep elsewhere (your car? a motel?), but if you are consistent, she *will* learn that she doesn't get the payoff when she rages at you.

I think 99% of pwBPD in this situation find a different way to cope than raging; I'm sure your wife will too. But YOU have to stay strong (WISE!) and consistent. You don't fight a storm by fighting back, explaining to it or placating it with a promise of diamonds. You get out of its path.

[Turkish]

Calling CPS is a bell that can't be un-rung. It would be good to know what exactly constitutes reportable abuse in your jurisdiction.  We once had a member who reported but was removed from the home, the kids left with the pwBPD, and he was investigated.

In California, my state, a face slap isn't child abuse under the law (unless it leaves a mark), for example.

When I reported the molestation of then D2, CPS made a not so veiled threat that they could take the kids from me as well if I didn't keep them safe. Sitting in a tiny room and having a social worker tell me that was scary.

My CPS has an anonymous hotline. Short of clear and present danger, it might be a good place to start if it might go down this path.

[flourdust]

Grey Kitty is wise. Listen to Grey Kitty.

[DaddyBear77]

Grey Kitty is wise. Listen to Grey Kitty.

I couldn't agree more, flourdust

Calling CPS is a bell that can't be un-rung.

I agree with this, too.

But, what I'm hearing Grey Kitty say is:

My suggestion for a threshold would be physical abuse D3.
... .
Leaving D3 subject to the rage isn't the long-term solution to this... .but it won't make things significantly worse for D3 in the short term, and it is step one of protecting D3.

... .and this has finally struck me as the ONLY right decision here.


On a related note, I've been really struggling lately.

I come and sit in front of my computer and I feel paralyzed. I spend 2 or 3 hours at a time, just staring at my screen, flipping between browser windows, replying to a few posts here and there on bpdfamily, really having zero productivity. I stopped seeing a therapist about 6 weeks ago.

A couple years ago, on the advice of a previous therapist, I started seeing a psychiatrist and tried antidepressants. I was on them for a year or so, and my therapist said she saw a difference. Eventually, my pwBPD convinced me to stop taking them. Likewise, she convinced me to stop seeing each and every therapist I've ever seen. I don't really understand what the deep down reason is she wanted me to stop the medication and the therapy, but her stated reasons were that I was just going to therapy to blame her for all our problems and refusing to work on my own, and that medication just made me more detached.

So finally today, the second wonderful day that she's been out of the house for several hours at a time AND I've had alternative care for D3, I got up the nerve to try and find a new therapist and a new psychiatrist. I managed to get an appointment TONIGHT with the therapist. Because of the hour, I told my wife I had made the appointment, that it was with a therapist, and that I apologized for the lateness but I had already arranged with her mother to stay a little longer tonight to cover.

My wife has been texting me non stop for an hour now, trying to get me to cancel the appointment until we can talk about it, or at least just reschedule it for tomorrow. I told her the name and address of the therapist (maybe I shouldn't have), but she has apparently built up an entire dossier against this guy. Impressive, since she did it in less than 10 minutes, from her iPhone, while she is sitting at the salon.

I engaged with short responses, for a while, and now I'm just ignoring most of what she's saying.

I don't really wonder much any more why things have been SO difficult. Sure, things are difficult because of some real issues I have - depression, codependency, caretaking, anxiety - but apparently these issues must "work" for my wife, and it's so crazy to see it play out like this. She WANTS me to stay depressed and anxious! And not for a nefarious or sadistic reason - I believe it really is just a subconscious NEED to keep things "stably unstable." I've also got the reciprocal need - when my wife decided to see a psychiatrist herself, one of my first reactions was fear and anxiety, too. But instead of begging her not to see someone, or asking her to alter her plans or the course of her treatment, I backed off and kept track of what WAS and was NOT my place.

Anyway, I'm rambling and I'll be late for my appointment.

Thanks everyone.

[formflier]

Go to the therapist and the P.   Don't look back.  Don't discuss in detail with your wife.

After discussing with your T and/or P you may want to open up a session for your wife to come in and talk about it... .maybe.  Let your providers guide.

FF

[DaddyBear77]

Therapist was OK, but we didn't click. That's alright, I'll find another.

Regarding the storms: Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we really just talking about boundaries, and ways to handle things if those boundaries are violated?

Sorry if I sound dense, but I'm starting to realize that I've lived my life without boundaries / limits, so this is a completely new concept to me.

If that's true, I am guessing I should be spending my energy on figuring out what those boundaries, right? Otherwise I have to figure it all out on the fly - "Is THIS something i need to walk away from? Is THIS something? Do I stay for this but not that?" - figuring that all out in real time is tough, I think.

[Turkish]

Too bad about the T.

Regarding boundaries,  have you seen this discussion? It may help you define what's acceptable to you:

This thread is about "examples".  In this thread we will discuss your value, your boundaries and how to defend your boundaries.
 
For some background information with more depth, there is a great discussion regarding the 3 types of boundaries (mental, emotional, physical) that everyone should read on this thread:
 
BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence
 
Remember, our values and the boundaries of those values aren't about someone else. They are about how we choose to live our lives.
 
I 
Relating our boundary defenses back to the value is very important.  If we don't do this, we run the risk of loosing sight of our objective - and we may make matters worse. To be constructive, we need to have realistic values and we need to understand what our responsibilities are if we want to truly live them. Talk is cheap.
 
There are 3 parts, the values we have, the boundaries of those values, and the actions we take when the boundaries are threatened.
 
Some examples:

Value:	Important aspect of life that I commit to live fully.
Boundary:	Defining what falls outside of my value, what is unacceptable.
Action:	One of the options I have when a boundary is threatened.

Value:	I treat everybody with respect
Boundary:	It is not respectful to dominate or control by screaming
Action:	Communicate my values. Lead by example (education - proactive)

Value:	I treat everybody with respect
Boundary:	It is not respectful to dominate or control by screaming
Action:	When a hot topics begin to simmer, I redirect the discussion to a safer topic.  (incident avoidance - proactive).

Value:	I treat everybody with respect
Boundary:	It is not respectful to dominate or control by screaming
Action:	I will take a time out or hang up (incident avoidance - reactive).

Value:	I treat everybody with respect
Boundary:	One cannot be respected in a consistently verbally abusive environment.
Action:	I will remove myself permanently from the environment or until there is change (total avoidance).

------------------------------------------
 
From the example above you can see that a value has many boundaries.  There are also many ways to defend your boundary.  :)efenses can be as simple as communicating and educating the other person.  It can be a comprehensive as leaving a relationship.
 
In all of these cases I am "not" telling the other person how to behave, what to do or not do or in any way trying to dictate to them how to live their life.  I am telling them how "I" behave, how "I" live.  I am clearly controlling that which I can -- myself.

Using "I" statements is referenced elsewhere also.  Seeking support through therapist is your right as an independent entity. 

If she asks why (again), leave her out of it.  Mix the "I"statement in with some SET. This isn't about her,  it's about you. 

As for why? We know why and you certainly know why.  I hope the discussion above can help shore up your boundaries by tying boundaries with your personal values. 

[flourdust]

You took a very good step to reclaim some of your independence and seek out a therapist. Well done!

I don't think your wife necessarily wants to keep you depressed and anxious -- my suspicion is that she doesn't want you to have outside relationships where you might talk about her, because of the basic BPD fear of abandonment. She assumes outside relationship = talking about her = being told to leave her = abandonment. Some members here report the same sort of interference with relationships with friends and family members, likely for the same underlying reason.

[Lucky Jim]

my suspicion is that she doesn't want you to have outside relationships where you might talk about her, because of the basic BPD fear of abandonment. She assumes outside relationship = talking about her = being told to leave her = abandonment.

Well said, flourdust.  My BPDxW once went ballistic upon learning that I had spoken with my brother and S-I-L about our marriage.  She tried to prevent me from seeing my sister; same for attending a football game with college friends.  For the reasons outlined above, my BPDxW viewed outside relationships on my part as a threat.  It all stemmed from her fear of abandonment, which was irrational yet nonetheless a real feeling to her.  The irony is that her behavior contributed to and accelerated the outcome that she feared most.

LuckyJim

[DaddyBear77]

my suspicion is that she doesn't want you to have outside relationships where you might talk about her, because of the basic BPD fear of abandonment.

It all stemmed from her fear of abandonment, which was irrational yet nonetheless a real feeling to her.

Yes. You guys are right, I think. In my more rational and grounded moments, I understand this.

This isn't about her,  it's about you.

And that really is the long and short of it, isn't it?

As a part of codependency it seems so natural to look at things in terms of the other person, but therapy, depression, being stuck - it really IS about me.

[Grey Kitty]

Regarding CPS, I'm *suggesting* physical abuse of D3 as a threshold.

What I want to be more forceful about is that you pick a threshold (whether that one or another), and make it a HARD LIMIT.

Below the threshold, no action, take care of yourself first and leave your wife to care for D3 if you have need to get out to protect yourself.

Above the threshold, you involve authorities.

And if you find yourself worrying, fretting, panicing, etc... .STOP, ask yourself which side of the threshold it is on, and get back on track.

Because being frozen in indecision about what to do is really toxic for YOU.


Good on you for looking for therapy! Keep at it, you will find a good one.

And as for your wife's resistance... .well, it is for you, not for her so her opinion isn't really valid... .but my guess is that some part of her realizes that if you get healthier, you won't be as easy for her to manipulate, and she doesn't want to risk that!

[Turkish]

Here's another thought: therapists are mandated reporters. When you find a T you trust,  if you share some thing that is clearly abuse given your local laws,  they will likely report it.  As my T told me,  "I have to report what you just told me,  so call me back by [6 hours from then] to tell me you called the cops, CPS, or both, or I will have to do so. It would be better for a number of reasons that you report rather than me." So I went to the police station and spent over 3 hours at the window making a report. 

The difference was on my case was that I had been seeing my T for over a year and had built a level of mutual trust. 

Like GK said,  make a hard limit, but also make sure you know what constitutes abuse under your local laws.  What is most likely common in all jurisdictions is that parents are required to keep their children safe from being exposed to violence as well. 

[DaddyBear77]

Guys, thank you.

D3 is almost 4 now, and I can say that nothing my uBPDw has done would be considered reportable. Honestly, not even close. My fear has always been that if I start enforcing my boundaries, the situation would quickly escalate, and then some unspecified "bad" thing would happen. I gotta be honest: I think this is an irrational fear based on my OWN fears of anger and emotions. If I overcome my own fears on this, I am fairly sure I will put both myself and D3 in a better position than if I stay and engage.

Also, overall my uBPDw has been surprisingly stable, but again, I am afraid that it's because I continue to meet all of her demands (financial and emotional). If you want to look at it a certain way, you could say that I've spent tens of thousands of dollars and 100% of my integrity to "buy" something that looks like stability.

[formflier]

The stability is an illusion and you have an even worse illusion that you "caused" it by giving in to her demands.

When you change your behavior she will get worse

She wants control... .of you and of D3.  She will fight and use all kinds of tactics to get control. 

You can "fight" and "protect" yourself and D3... .legally... morally... .and given time and consistency, you will prevail.  The main block to doing this is FOG and the unknown.  This is different to you.

It was different and scary to me as well.  There was a couple week period where I knew that lines had been crossed and "corporal punishment" had gone to a level of abuse, then she tried to hide her continuing corporal punishment.

I confronted her in person and in MC about it and she assured me that there was "no problem".  She made a verbal promise to MC not to do any more corporal punishment.  I wanted it in writing.  I know my wife.  She said there was "no reason" for that.  I don't argue and threaten about things like that and just said that was not a satisfactory resolution... to only be verbal.

The keep the story succinct I reported her to social services.  I had lots of good advice before hand.  The advice basically centered around the best chance for some sort of healing intervention.  For me, in my jurisdiction, that was CPS.

By and large it worked.  The investigation was "unfounded", there was nothing to report, nothing was done "wrong".  However, the investigation took a few months.  A "safety plan" was created at the start of the investigative process and that plan was signed by CPS and us.  The part I insisted on was "We will comply with our counselors"

My wife didn't really realize the impact of this for a week or two.  There was lots of growth and improvement over this period of time, on both our parts.

Those familiar with my story get that this is a simplification.  I would encourage DaddyBear77 to think deeply about what he really fears... .  I want to assure him that taking action earlier, is better than later.

pwBPD tend to build a "head of steam" on issues and behaviors.  So... .letting this go on another year... .will be worse than dealing with it after a month of careful planning.

I'm really sorry that you are in this situation.  I was used to dealing with sucky life or death stuff in the military... .it never crossed my mind that I would do that in my home.  It was a big mental block to overcome.

As a result of my "relative" delay in doing what I know needed to be done... .I saw things that I can't unsee.

Again... .those that know my story... .this is quick version.

I heard the beatings start and rushed to the room.  She was going to beat three of them for "letting" the baby get in the road.  My wife was outside with them... .yet she was punishing them.

I walk in the room and saw rage on my wife's face like I have never seen before or since.  Her arm was way up in the air and she was hitting kids with a belt with "strokes" that came from as high up and as hard as she could.  Kids screaming... Mommy screaming... .

I physically inserted myself between her and the kids to stop the beating.  To this day I'm not sure if I prevented one of them from being hit... .or if I got there too late.

Had I "been stronger" earlier, perhaps healing would have been done without as much trauma.

There was a fundamental shift in my attitude from a husband to a Dad  This BPD thing (my wife is likely actually PPD) is hard to manage, but with consistent and firm application of tools and principles YOU can carve out a healthier life for you can your child... .and your wife.

Please trust me when I said you will be afraid and you must find a way to work through that

My results:

Fast forward a couple years.  My family still has challenges, but now I focus on things like sending kids to their rooms when my wife wants an audience, vice stopping a beating.

A vast improvement

What kind of plan can you make, to work through your fear?

FF

[DaddyBear77]

The stability is an illusion
... .
I physically inserted myself between her and the kids to stop the beating.  To this day I'm not sure if I prevented one of them from being hit... .or if I got there too late.

Had I "been stronger" earlier, perhaps healing would have been done without as much trauma.
... .
What kind of plan can you make, to work through your fear?

FF - first of all, I learn more and more of your story every day, and I really appreciate it. I appreciate how incredibly hard things were. I appreciate how incredibly hard things currently are, albeit to a lesser extent, maybe, or at least different. I am really sorry you've had to go through all this, and I am really thankful you're here has a mentor to the rest of us.

Consider your warning heard.

The abuse I'm observing with my pwBPD (who, in my case is skewing a lot more toward NPD lately) is NOT physical at this time. It's narcissistic abuse, and sometimes I think the psychological aspects of abuse are worse than physical aspects. I'm not an expert, but I would guess that the psychological fear of being struck is exactly what does the damage, just as the psychological fear of being abandoned by your mother is what does the damage with an NPD mom.

We had YET ANOTHER incident this morning where, right as my eyes cracked open, my wife says "Why do you hate me so much? I'm an awesome person, and ANYone else would LOVE to have me as their wife. Yet I look through all our pictures and I never once see you with your arm around me with a look of pride and happiness to have such an awesome wife." So, I do a LITTLE JADE but then the lawn mowing guy showed up and we needed to pay him. So we go down stairs, I walk the dog, and she comes after me continuing the argument. I say "let's go inside," she starts shouting at me, D3 hears this from her bedroom, says "MOMMY DADDY STOP THAT RIGHT NOW" - I leave the room where in, go to her room, pwBPD following one step behind. I give D3 a kiss, then leave the room.

Anyway, the whole point here is exactly what you're saying FF (and others). It's so much better to make a decision earlier rather than later. And more and more every day I'm realizing the only decision I can make is be honest, stop trying to "buy" false stability, and let the relationship live out whatever days it has left, assume it will likely need to end, and try and do so on my terms by preparing for it.

[forlorn]

Wow! I felt like you were describing my life when I was reading about your observations of the pattern you see with your wife's rages.  In my recent experiences with this, it's not quite as easy as just refusing to engage.  Maybe that works over time, but it is really hard to be 100% consistent in refusing to respond. What I've seen is that when I refuse to engage my boyfriend just tries a different tactic to get me onboard - just poking and poking and poking at me about one thing or another until I'm either worn down or he finds a weak spot, and then it's "Game On." I think I'm at about 20% success right now. Sometimes more, sometimes less depending on how often the rages are coming. But what I do see is that success in the times that I can manage it helps me to get some breathing room, which allows just a little more time to build myself back up.  It's not enough, but I'll take it.

Thinking of you.

[formflier]

I totally understand how people write such long posts on here.  I did as well.  The details matter.

My wife and I were married for about 15 years... .things were pretty normal.  Looking back, I see "hints".  I was also deployed a lot, so there were things that kept the "honeymoon" phase going.  2009 natural disaster forced us from our home for about 6 months.  

My wife and I had very different reactions to that.  Let's just say it brought all our mental health issues out.  Stress does that.

I spent several years invalidating the sh$t out of my wife while thinking I was doing her a favor by explaining my love to her.  Reality:  I was pouring gas on the fire.  My wife's paranoia and FOO issues took off.  She did what was natural to her... .I did what was natural to me

Then... in one of our many new MC sessions, my wife danced around the room, shook her finger at the MC, said she was taking sides, said she would never come back and stormed out.  I stayed.  MC said and stressed that she hadn't seen enough to diagnose, but I needed to read SWOE.  Life changing experience to realize that other people lived as I did.  Then I found bpdfamily... .

Several years later I have relative stability and a clear outlook of my life and purpose.  I can either spend a bunch of money on therapy for me now and minimize future T for my kids or I can watch my kids turn out like my nephews.  They are ruined... .

DaddyBear77,

Your wife said those things to you in the morning because it worked for her... she "did what comes naturally to her".  Nothing about your posts leads me to believe she is "plotting" this.

You have the power here... .because you have the knowledge.  Yep... .some would claim it's a way to "manipulate" your wife.  Perhaps it is.  I'm a military guy, so I too often digress to "fighting" terms.  Many times those are not helpful in a r/s.

For me, I "manipulate" our r/s by "managing closeness".  If we are too close for too long she will do something to sabotage.  I have had some success in gently going closer to her when she "pulls" and stepping away yet remaining friendly when she pushes.  I've built a life for me outside my marriage.

However, regarding the upbringing of your children... .I assure you... .this is not a fight you can loose.  

 

FF

[Grey Kitty]

You insist that nothing your wife did is reportable. I suspect you are correct, but don't know.

Please confirm this with proper authorities, if you aren't certain. You can talk to people like those who work for DV agencies, police, etc., and remain relatively anonymous, and confirm that information.

Especially because you don't want to disclose something to your therapist that will trigger a CPS investigation... .WITHOUT KNOWING IT. Again, learn about your local mandatory reporting laws and policies in detail.

BTW, otherwise... .stay strong, and keep on doing what you believe is right. You'll get to exactly where you need to be.

[flourdust]

DaddyBear,

My state defines child abuse very narrowly, in physical terms.

However, when it comes to making custody decisions in a divorce or separation, abuse is only one factor out of many "best interests of the child" factors.

Learn what those are in your state, and document everything relevant!