Seething with hatred...

[Lalathegreat]

And oh boy am I NOT this person. I am so tight with tension and absolutely seething today as I begin to crawl out of the pit and add up what was taken from me.

Essentially I was a glass half full optimist who believed that people were generally good and wanted good for others. Now I'm a broken, suspicious, cynic who knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that people can be hurtful and hateful and yes - evil.

I miss being naive. I wish I didn't have to know what I know now. I wish I could go back. Realistically I know that I can't. I will have to learn how to assimilate it into a new "me". But today I am really angry about that.

___ him for scarring me. ___ him!

[enlighten me]

Hi Lala

Been there myself. Its like the world has changed and innocence is lost.

It does get better though. I'm now at a point where my walls are up and I avoid any people who jump out at me as wrong. I'm still hyper sensitive to selfishness but that's a good thing as it stops me getting involved with people like that.

Its like I'm now living in a world with defined borders between good and bad. I stay within the good borders and In content.

[Turkish]

I wish I didn't have to know what I know now

I wish I didn't as well.  I know what this means for me.  But what does it mean for you,  specifically, what do you know now?

[Lalathegreat]

Turkish - I just feel such a tremendous loss of faith in people. I look for ill intent in every interaction. "They did (fill in the blank)... .does that mean they think I'm lazy?" Or even worse - I'll instinctively start to do something for somebody and then I'll be suddenly gripped by thoughts like- "oh___, if I do this will this person understand it as the kind gesture I intend or later will they come back and scream at me for judging them and manipulating the situation?"

My ex husband came over yesterday to pick up my daughter and we ended up having a difficult financial discussion. My ex husband was NEVER abusive physically. But as that conversation got slightly heated I found myself literally backing away until I was in the furthest corner and then I instinctively even knelt down. I didn't even realize it on a conscious level until ex was like "what are you doing? We're just talking. Why are you acting like a beat down puppy?" Ugh - and then there it was - I started thinking of every argument with pwBPD and realized that I would make myself appear as non threatening as possible in the hopes of avoiding a worse confrontation.

I expect that people will behave selfishly. I look for it. I see it everywhere I go. I expect people to be hurtful and I wait for it. I expect people to misread my intentions and judge me for it.

And underlying ALL of this is "what I know now"... .that there are people who really are evil, cunning, manipulative, vengeful.

[Emotions]

All this is true lala, just make sure your not one of them, and accentuate the positive:) good luck there are also good people out there

[HelenaHandbasket]

___ him indeed.  ___ him right in the ear.

You know, I know this feeling totally sucks, but I'm glad to see you getting angry instead of feeling so sad.  I think it's part of the grieving process and you should let yourself feel it.

But after that, remember that this really was a special situation. You got involved with someone with a relatively rare personality disorder, and it blew up. You had no way of knowing that in the beginning, but NOW you know the warning signs to look for and you'll be much less likely to fall victim again.  There are loads of great people out there--most people don't have BPD, most people aren't narcissists, most people have empathy and would never treat you the way he did.   You can take what you've learned here and be more cautious in your next r/s. Being cautious doesn't have to mean closing your heart.

Hang in there--you're moving through this.  

[patientandclear]

Lala, it makes sense that you feel this way. While I believe those who responded
above that there are plenty of good people out there who are not time
bombs are probably right--I suspect you are responding to the feeling
that anyone who seems great at the outset could turn out to be a time bomb and you don't have confidence you could pick that out before the explosion. Whence the generalized feeling of unease.

I think that has elements of trauma. When something dangerous and harmful comes seemingly out of nowhere, disconnected from all you thought you knew and were picking up about the situation, it can make it very difficult to relax and can prompt a general guardedness and readiness for flight.

I have found this subsides a bit with a lot of time and intentional explosure to good dynamics. But your response makes sense.

[Turkish]

Lala... .

That you responded like that to your ex H with whom you otherwise had at least a cordial, or neutral, relationship with telegraphs a lot,  that you are suffering from severe trauma. You were retreating by instinct in order to feel safe.  What kind of support have you sought out in real life?

[Lalathegreat]

Turkish - I meet once a week with a counselor, but I am thinking about seeking a new therapist who specializes in PD and domestic violence. While being able to gab about my issues has had some value, it is becoming more clear that this type of trauma is NOT her area of expertise.

[Mamaka123]

Lala, I feel your pain.  I am angry and I wish I could literally turn back time.  I get tired of all the thinking about every single Interaction I have with others.  I wasn't that way before and I bet you weren't either.  My body language changed, my inner dialogue changed, every idea I had of how a woman should be treated has changed because of my husbands behavior towards me.  I'm hoping that time heals some of these wounds.  I want to believe that their are still decent loving respectful men left I this world.  What I hate most is that I will never trust myself again with anyone because now I'm damaged goods for anyone

[letmeout]

I understand where you are coming from, Lala. I didn't seethe for a while because it was so traumatic and fresh that I blocked a lot out to survive. Now I curse my exBPDh on a daily basis in my mind, sometimes many times a day. I really need to stop carrying that hatred around with me.

I can't seem to forget what a monster he was, the horrible things he did, and how much pain he caused me and our children.  My counselor is now working on my trust issue with men that was caused by that relationship. I keep thinking that all men are secretly monsters, even though I know that can't be true! 

Now I need to stop thinking that so I can start dating without being scared from getting more scars. I hope we both win this battle and become whole again!   

[Turkish]

Seeking a new T is good in order to deal with what seem to be deep wounds.  I feel the similarly: I feel that I can't trust anybody.  I trust D5, but I also don't want to put any of my junk into her head (nor S7's), my black and white thinking at this time. 

[Grey Kitty]

Turkish - I just feel such a tremendous loss of faith in people. I look for ill intent in every interaction. "They did (fill in the blank)... .does that mean they think I'm lazy?" Or even worse - I'll instinctively start to do something for somebody and then I'll be suddenly gripped by thoughts like- "oh___, if I do this will this person understand it as the kind gesture I intend or later will they come back and scream at me for judging them and manipulating the situation?"

I think this is a natural consequence of getting out of an abusive relationship, and it will take some time and effort to recover from it, but you can and will.

You experience something often enough, you come to expect it to happen again. When you were in that relationship, all these hidden ill intentions and screaming reactions WERE normal. You had very good reason to expect them!

As you find yourself NOT getting them in the future, now that you are out of this r/s, you will come to realize that they aren't always lurking right around the corner.

But it will take time.

My ex husband came over yesterday to pick up my daughter and we ended up having a difficult financial discussion. My ex husband was NEVER abusive physically. But as that conversation got slightly heated I found myself literally backing away until I was in the furthest corner and then I instinctively even knelt down. I didn't even realize it ... .

Again... .the reaction was natural on your part, even though your exH wasn't a risk like that. The situation was the same, and you reacted.

As you heal, these things will fade. I call them "old tapes" or "bad tapes" Where the 'next move' you would experience was really bad... .and your fear of that was really justified.

Take care of yourself and give yourself some time.

And validate yourself--let yourself feel all that anger without having to act or lash out at anything. It is a real feeling, and stuffing it won't make it go away.

[roberto516]

I miss being naive. I wish I didn't have to know what I know now. I wish I could go back. Realistically I know that I can't. I will have to learn how to assimilate it into a new "me". But today I am really angry about that.

I relate all too well. My problem was I spoke about the anger to her. It wasn't nice on my part and it is not who I am by any means. My therapist tried to tell me something along the lines of ":)oesn't this prove how unhealthy this relationship was for you if it made you say things you never would say to another human being?"

Deep down I know it's my feelings of being rejected. Compile that with my first BPD relationship and swearing up and down I would never be in a similar situation again. And here I am.

I understand wanting to be naive. I wish 2 years ago when she pursued me I had stayed away. I wish I was still ignorant to all of this.

My favorite author is Fyodor Dostoevsky. One of his quotes from the book "Crime and Punishment" rings all too true for me now. It is, "To be acutely conscious is a disease, a real, honest-to-goodness disease."

Take care, feel the anger. It's okay. You have a right to be hurt.

[resiliant_dad]

Lala, who is it that caused you to cower and kneel out of submission and fear? Because that is exactly what that behavior is, at least in the natural world. If you're exaggerating, I get it. But considering your ex-husband was never physical with you, that doesn't seem like the reaction to mere words. Is there something else in your history, someONE else, that might have triggered that?
I know words are more hurtful that hands; my wife has used both. I'm not suggesting that you've not been abused and continue to be; it's the visual of you backing into a corner and kneeling down that confuses me.

[patientandclear]

For my sons--Lala has several threads on a couple different boards that explain that her immediate ex wBPD (not her exH) was physically threatening to her on several recent occasions.

[resiliant_dad]

Patientandclear, t/y for your patience and clarity. I'm trying to make sense of things here.

[Lalathegreat]

Thank you patient and clear for jumping in. For my sons - it's been a month and a half since I ended my relationship with my upwBPD after he threw his fist threateningly at me and then punched straight through a wall. He also had previously backed me against a door and spit in my face and then chased me across his complex parking lot in an effort to keep me there to talk. While those were the 2 biggest incidents, there were MANY times that he would physically stand in hallways and doorways to block my passage while he raged, tore clothes off his body, or destroyed property - snapping his glasses in half and smashing his laptop over his knee for example.

So while my husband had never been physically threatening, when we began to disagree I had an apparently subconscious reaction to the threat of conflict. I was very surprised by it myself and am anxious to bring it up in therapy next week.

[flourdust]

When I started divorce proceedings, I gave myself a one year moratorium on any future relationships. I was also playing those "bad tapes," and I needed time to heal and find my balance. It was a good choice.

[Me-Time]

I was also playing those "bad tapes,"

I'm so grateful for this thread because this is exactly how I've been feeling lately. I've been ruminating and playing those "bad tapes" in my mind. I am so unahppy and negative lately. I resent all of the negativity my ex brought into my life and wish I could un-live it. Im freshly out of the relationship, not living together but still needing to have some contact as we are divorcing. I'm really hoping my mind will come to peace at some point. I find myself coming home from work and literally being flooded with negative memories and conversations. It keeps me in a constant state of anger. I know time will heal it mostly, but I just wish I hadn't been subjected to this way of life. There's no way to undo it.

[Aesir]

Turkish - I just feel such a tremendous loss of faith in people. I look for ill intent in every interaction. "They did (fill in the blank)... .does that mean they think I'm lazy?" Or even worse - I'll instinctively start to do something for somebody and then I'll be suddenly gripped by thoughts like- "oh___, if I do this will this person understand it as the kind gesture I intend or later will they come back and scream at me for judging them and manipulating the situation?"

My ex husband came over yesterday to pick up my daughter and we ended up having a difficult financial discussion. My ex husband was NEVER abusive physically. But as that conversation got slightly heated I found myself literally backing away until I was in the furthest corner and then I instinctively even knelt down. I didn't even realize it on a conscious level until ex was like "what are you doing? We're just talking. Why are you acting like a beat down puppy?" Ugh - and then there it was - I started thinking of every argument with pwBPD and realized that I would make myself appear as non threatening as possible in the hopes of avoiding a worse confrontation.

I expect that people will behave selfishly. I look for it. I see it everywhere I go. I expect people to be hurtful and I wait for it. I expect people to misread my intentions and judge me for it.

And underlying ALL of this is "what I know now"... .that there are people who really are evil, cunning, manipulative, vengeful.

I remember during the last argument she started I leaned on a counter top for support. I was just that drained.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Lala,

I've been following this thread with interest.  You have started a really good discussion here and one that has had me thinking.  Thank you for sharing.

So while my husband had never been physically threatening, when we began to disagree I had an apparently subconscious reaction to the threat of conflict. I was very surprised by it myself and am anxious to bring it up in therapy next week.

I'm glad you have your therapy to take this to.  Good on you for having the support in place for when stuff like this comes up.  Given the traumatic experiences you've had it's no wonder you reacted the way that you did.  When faced with a perceived threat our fight, flight or freeze response kicks in and we don't have control over that happening in our body. 

Like you, I feel that working through my fear (which in turn has brought up the anger for me too) and trust issues is a priority.  My therapy hasn't yet commenced as I am having interim CBT for PTSD before starting.  Apart from the situation with your ex husband, have you had any other instances where your behaviour reflected the trauma you faced? 

Something you may find interesting.  In my recent mindfulness refresher course we covered the 3 major emotion systems.  These are:

Threat, Achieving and Soothing. 

When the three are out of balance, we experience more stress.  Our contemporary culture tends to keep us locked into the first two and largely neglects the third.  It's not that these emotions are bad - we need them to protect us from danger and motivate us to seek the good things in life.  However when they are not in balance with the other we can become very unhappy. 

The soothing system is where we experience feelings of contentment, peace and a feeling of being safe.  Endorphins are released into the body.  The soothing system also includes feelings of affection, care and kindness.  These are the emotions that create a feeling of connectedness with others and oxytocin is linked with these feelings of social safeness.  With the endorphins released, this gives us the feeling of well being that can come from feeling safe with others. 

Mindfulness teaches kindness as the key to accessing this soothing system to bring it back into balance with the other two systems.  Basically, the more time we spend in soothing, the less time we spend striving ourselves into the ground and running from lions!

Thoughts and actions that are centred around self kindness and self compassion can stimulate those parts of the brain that respond to kindness therefore releasing the oxytocin to create the feeling of being soothed and calmed.  We can all benefit by being kinder to ourselves, having compassion towards ourselves when times are hard, and swapping out our inner critic for an inner caring, understanding, supportive and encouraging person instead.

Just food for thought really and I hope this is of some use.  I'm accutely aware I need to do more to access the soothing system and this is something I'm working on.  Currently the slightest thing has me in threat.  What sort of things would you do for a friend or loved one to help them feel soothed that you wouldn't normally do for yourself?  Can you allow yourself to treat yourself in the same way?  Simple acts of kindness to others, and noticing kindness towards yourself are positive things we can do on a daily basis to access these emotions too, with very little effort.  You probably don't think anything of being kind to others, so perhaps allow yourself a moment to enjoy the soothing feeling and this will boost you.

Love and light x           

[Lalathegreat]

Thank you everyone, your replies have helped me so much at a really dark time. 

HarleyQuinn - I am thinking about the "soothing" system and how I can integrate more small kindnesses into my life right now. I have definitely been isolating the past couple of months, and need to start doing the things that fed my spirit. I definitely  need to think more about finding some balance as I clearly am always on "high alert" and I think that constant anxiety is what is making it so hard to eat and sleep well at the moment.

[Harley Quinn]

Thank you everyone, your replies have helped me so much at a really dark time. 

HarleyQuinn - I am thinking about the "soothing" system and how I can integrate more small kindnesses into my life right now. I have definitely been isolating the past couple of months, and need to start doing the things that fed my spirit. I definitely  need to think more about finding some balance as I clearly am always on "high alert" and I think that constant anxiety is what is making it so hard to eat and sleep well at the moment.

I hear you on this Lala.  Just try to to be kind to yourself every way that you can and remember that every little step forwards is actually two steps further than if we stepped back.  Good luck for a positive therapy session next week.

Love and light x

[lovenature]

The more you learn and the longer you remain NC the clearer things become, it is both helpful and hurtful. You can get past the anger and hate, and it is essential to reach a better way of life.

[jambley]

The more you learn and the longer you remain NC the clearer things become, it is both helpful and hurtful. You can get past the anger and hate, and it is essential to reach a better way of life.

Very well said Lovenature