I'm just tired and worn out

[allienoah]

So to begin with, I have been making/enforcing my boundaries a lot better. My bfwBPD is not happy about this but says he loves me and wants to keep working on moving forward. Do I want this? Sometimes yes and sometimes no-as many of you on here have seen from me. I agonize over this. and now I am exhausted. After an incident last weekend, and then again last night I am twisting in the wind. I had told my daughter she could stay over my house for the holiday w/e. Plan was to stay up by my bf. He wanted to stay by me last night, and I told him no, as my D refuses to be in his presence. She was going to an all-day party and I felt the emotional mix of her feelings for him, and drinking during the day was a prescription for drama and disaster. To add to this, she had heard him speaking harshly to me Saturday night and felt I should have dumped him then. He was mad/frustrated as he was running late and I neglected to pick up a card and gift that I had said I would get. The reason I mention this is that I can't get out of my head that no matter if I am wrong about something, he does not have the right to lambast me over it. So needless to say, although I apologized, I still took a verbal beating. My daughter saw part of this and voila! In her mind another reason why I am an idiot for staying. So I calmly spoke to him last night that I can no longer tolerate his going off the rails and drama-making over every incident that arises. He of course goes on a list of all the bad I have done. And why can't I control my daughter's feelings, and I should "slam" into her that I am with him and she needs to get over it.
What bothers me terribly is also why I find it so hard to not sink to his level-I find myself loosing control and screaming back at him, hanging up on him, (I don't name-call) and pretty much falling into JADE-ing over and over. I was doing so well at NOT doing this. I am having such a hard time keeping my head lately. That is the exhaustion I suppose. Does anyone have any suggestions for how I can avoid falling into this trap over and over? I have to add that last night when I decided to just go home and not be with him, he went into such a rage that he parked in my driveway to "confront" my daughter. He wanted me there to "end the nonsense" once and for all. I did not go home to this drama. Shamefully, I talked him down and went to stay with him-just to get him away from my house. This is not something I am proud of. I just felt I was protecting my daughter, myself and keeping from the complete embarrassement with the screaming and yelling. So again, I need guidance as to how I can avoid this drama, even when he is determined to create it?

[formflier]

OK... .  

Shamefully, I talked him down and went to stay with him-just to get him away from my house.

So... .he got what he wanted.  It worked for him and it didn't work for you and your daughter.

Can you see that?  Very different that agree with it.

There is lots of other material in this post... .but this incident is by far the biggest deal... IMO.  

Can you take a minute and look at this from your daughters point of view?  What have you "taught" her about relationships?  Yes... .we are always teaching out kids... by example.

Can you take a minute and look at this from your BFs point of view?  What did you teach him about how to treat you?  What did you teach him about how to get what he wants from you?

Hang in there... .

FF

[formflier]

Did you tell your BF the reason he couldn't come over?  The part about the daughter not wanting to be around him?

FF

[allienoah]

Yes bf is well aware that she wants nothing to do with him nor be in his presence.
I looked at it from D point of view. I am ashamed that I am acting like a doormat with my bf. I do not like the person she sees one bit in me in these situations. She is much stronger in her r/s's. She has and enforces boundaries, thank goodness. I can teach that but I can't seem to do it.
And I see that I have reinforced to my bf that if he throws a big enough tantrum, he gets what he wants. He can crap all over me, gaslight me into thinking I am wrong, defame my character and a whole host of other things, and I will eventually relent. Just typing all of that turns my stomach.

[formflier]

And I see that I have reinforced to my bf that if he throws a big enough tantrum, he gets what he wants. 

This is EXACTLY what he thinks, it is EXACTLY why he does it.  The only way I am aware of to get this to stop... .is for it to stop working for him... .you control that. 

FF

[allienoah]

I understand what you are saying. I was only trying to avoid a major drama scene with my kids and bf that might end up with a "no turning back" scenario. I was afraid of what he/she might do/say in the height of their anger and frustration. Looking at it that way, I suppose I need to let everyone suffer the consequences of their own actions instead of :
1. trying to shield my daughter from bf's anger
2. trying to keep my son from going off the handle and becoming aggressive
3. trying to keep my bf from sealing his own fate
4. trying to keep myself from being put on the spot to "pick a side" in the heat of battle.

It all sounds so ridiculous.

[flourdust]

I have to add that last night when I decided to just go home and not be with him, he went into such a rage that he parked in my driveway to "confront" my daughter

I know it can be hard to see when in the FOG; that's why it's valuable to bring these stories here.

The part quoted above is an   enormous red flag.

I am extremely concerned for your safety and your daughter's safety.

Here's a suggestion for the next time this happens: call the police to have him removed from your property.

[allienoah]

Calling the police is exactly what my D would do if he created a scene at my door or in the yard. I know this, and it is the logical thing to do. I just never pictured myself as ever having to do that. It is very hard to think of what would ensue if it came to that. However, if he rages and goes to physically touch anyone? that is a far worse issue. I hate the thought of doing that to him, but you are absolutely right that it is the only way to get this craziness to stop.

[formflier]

I've called the police... .wow... .3 times perhaps.  I'd have to think about it a bit.  My wife has also called several times, although those tended to be a bit more interesting.

"Ma'am... .do you want us to send a police response?"

FFw "No... you guys just need to know what he is up to... "

"Ma'am... .are you ok?  Are you sure you don't need the police?"

FFw  "No, I just needed to tell you."

There is a bit more back and forth (this is from memory... I can't find the audio file at the moment)... .sorry to hijack the thread... .but you can totally tell the dispatcher is having a What the heck moment.

Anyway...

Looking back, if I had done it sooner, it wouldn't have been so traumatic when I did call.  I should also have started recording sooner.

The last time I called... .with my father in law bouncing around with dukes up... .like Muhammed Ali... .no kidding... .bobbing and weaving and all that... .I just gave the address and requested police response for a domestic disturbance.  Really a bland sounding call.

OK... to your situation.

How did you know he was in your driveway?

Did he tell you?

If he is not invited... .and he is texting you.  I would send the following text.

"You are not welcome on my property.  Leave now."  (don't threaten a consequence)

If he leaves... .drop it.

If he responds with blather... .call 911.

If he responds with a "whats up"... .tell him now is not a good time, you will talk in a day or so and to please leave.

FF

[formflier]

I'm going to ask an uncomfortable question... .

What does a "point of no return" incident look like?

Another...

Has your definition of that changed in the past year or two?

FF

[allienoah]

I knew he was in driveway because he told me so. However today he revealed that he was in fact down the block. I'm sure this is because he didn't want to run into my son who was on his way to work at 10 pm.
A point of no return to me is A. Calling the police on him which he would never forgive me for
B. My children having a verbal altercation in which so many hurtful things are said and both sides look for me to choose.
C. Any physical aggression by anyone

Tonight we actually tried to talk but he refused to apologize own any misbehavior then he started in on me cos my son hadn't cleaned the basement as I wished. My bf had cleaned it out last fall and when son came home from college last month he hung some flags and lights. Bf felt son was getting too comfortable and making a mancave. Bf felt this was disrespectful and went down there to video the scene. I thought this excessive and didn't buy in. Of course that set him off and he left.
I also have to add that when formflier asked what message I was sending my daughter it was quite prophetic... she came home and both she and her brother laced into me for having no self respect and being a very weak woman. This was quite upsetting as you could imagine. It is at the point that I am a joke to all that loved me

[Grey Kitty]

First, look at the big picture:

1. Your kids: They want to help you, and they want to protect you from your bf and/or abusive behavior from your bf.

Those are excellent intentions. Unfortunately, most of the things they are doing aren't helping or making it easier for you, and there's some boundary busting going on in there.

At this point, you can do three things--Ask them for the kind of support that will help you, keep them away from your bf, and enforce some boundaries when they go too far.

2. Your bf: He's behaving FAR worse, and you need boundaries more with him.

OK, a few specific things you can do after remembering the big picture:

she came home and both she and her brother laced into me for having no self respect and being a very weak woman. This was quite upsetting as you could imagine.

  Yes, this is awful to experience. It is also was an opportunity to use the validation tools (which you learned for BPDbf) with them--they aren't mentally ill, so it should go better.

Think about their feelings underneath what they said... .They didn't say that to make you feel lower than the dirt stuck to the gum on the bottom of their shoes. They really do care about you. They are afraid for you. They want better for you. I'm sure you know that.

What they are doing is hurtful to you, not helpful, but remember where they are coming from; it will help you deal with them in a more constructive way.

And consider asking them about their fears for you, or otherwise validating how they feel about BPDbf.

Now what about BPDbf's behavior... .and what you can do to try to keep him from passing your points of no return... .

I knew he was in driveway because he told me so. However today he revealed that he was in fact down the block. I'm sure this is because he didn't want to run into my son who was on his way to work at 10 pm.
A point of no return to me is A. Calling the police on him which he would never forgive me for

What he did was escalate conflict with you by threatening conflict directly with your children.

And as you've seen, it worked. It set a dangerous precedent, and he probably will try it again unless you make it clear to him that things have changed.

I'll suggest some boundaries for you regarding him. Think about it and decide whether you believe them... .and whether you think you can enforce them or not.

1. You have a relationship with your children. He has proven that he cannot play nice with them, they now hate him, and his privilege to any connection or involvement with them is 100% revoked as of now.

2. The part of your life you share with your children is now closed to him. You will not be discussing with him whether your son is being 'disrespectful' with him or anything else about them.

3. He may not like the answer if he tries to make you choose between him and your children in smaller things. You won't be breaking prior commitments to them for him anymore.

4. Threatening or provoking a physical confrontation with your children will cause you to involve police (if needed) and break up with him immediately if he does it again.

Anyhow... .think about these--the first part is whether you believe in your heart that enforcing these is the right thing. The second part is whether you believe you can. The last part is what you do at that point. These are serious enough that you should probably tell him first and give him some warning.

There is a last one... .but it is merely informative for him, not one you can enforce by taking action, so telling him is counter-productive, 'tho it might be something you want to say in the face of some threats/statements he makes to you:

5. If he doesn't want to be in a r/s with you despite your children's role in your life (aka the list above), he is free to leave.

[formflier]

A point of no return to me is A. Calling the police on him which he would never forgive me for
 

     

Please think about "enmeshed" thinking.  A point of "no return" for you, is based on your opinion of what someone else may think.

We can never really know what someone else may think.  We are likely better off to make our own points of no return, based on factors that we control and how we think.  Let other people think as they will.

Can you see how you are making a decision about how you "fear" he may think?

What do we teach about making decisions based on FOG?

FF

[coworkerfriend]

Allie -    

I can totally relate to the tired and worn out feeling.  When I read about your relationships with your BF and your kids, I can totally relate.  My relationships haven't gotten that far - but, I could see it happening.  I worry about things escalating and that happening.  I am so sorry that your kids laid into like that - I can imagine how painful it was for you.  I have also found myself trying to pacify my pwBPD - to try and make the situation better. 

Sending hugs to you.  None of this is easy.

[chillamom]

allienoah, my heart goes out to you as well, and I KNOW what you are going through.  I've been in yet another recycle for the past month, and my diagnosed NPD/BPD person knows that he cannot be here when my kids are (which is most of time given that two of them are college students that live at home).  My older daughter particularly hates him, as she has been the one who has felt most personally attacked by him, but all have said they will NOT tolerate his presence because they have seen and heard far too much and know how he has treated me.  In fact, last month my oldest daughter said, and I quote "If you go back to him, I will literally kill him.  (She then described how... .) . Then you will have a dead ex and a daughter in jail."

So I went back despite that and I hate myself for it and have lost every ounce of self respect I had, which was minimal after nearly 9 years of emotional and verbal abuse with this very disturbed person.

For the last month of course he has been on his best behavior and has respected boundaries with my kids, I have been very firm about that.  He of course keeps asking if we can all "just get along" which after all these years will not happen.

I'm very unhappy and in terrible cognitive dissonance, which I imagine you are as well.  I had broken up with him in December of last year and ultimately gave in to months of begging, screaming and crying to get back together.  And here I am wondering again how soon I can get out and make it last this time, because my kids come first no matter what and this entire situation is unfair to everyone, the guy included. 

How I wish every day that I had left years and years ago at the first episode of verbal abuse and insane accusations, the relationship would have been over practically before it stated if I had healthy boundaries and wasn't a damn "fixer".  Now I have to fix myself and haven't a clue how.

Please look at me as a cautionary tale and do whats best for yourself NOW.

[allienoah]

Formflier you have given me many constructive things to consider. I really appreciate the boundaries you wrote out for me. I do think they are very important, and I want to enforce them. I feel it is completely on me to do so. And absolutely if he forces me to choose, it will be my children. I know they don't feel I put them first but I truly do. Enmeshed thinking is exactly what I am doing! I absolutely let myself get caught up in the FOG aspect-and logically I know I shouldn't. I place too much importance on what will happen to bf, how he will be hurt, how he will react, that I forget how I hurt. I forget the horrible impact this relationship is taking on all of my other personal relationships.
Chillamom thank you for your sharing. You must be feeling awful as well. When our kids go at us-to protect us because they love us-it is very sad, shameful, embarrassing, etc. You and I both know our kids are actually correct, but we can't seem to break the bonds. My bf seems to think that my kids will "get over it" and we will be happy together. That is not going to happen. Then he expects me to want to gel with his kids, and I start to feel resentful. He says they would never treat me the way my kids treat him. Well, that's because I NEVER BEHAVED the way he does.  How do you deal with the tension when he goes to your home? What boundaries have you established regarding your kids? I am wishing I never got this involved with him as well, but here I am. I, like you, am trying to fix myself, no one else. I can't fix him. I don't even want to anymore. I just told him that he needs to take care of himself and stop placing the responsibility for his happiness on my shoulders.

[formflier]

I forget the horrible impact this relationship is taking on all of my other personal relationships. 

Most importantly... .the impact it is having on YOU!

FF

[allienoah]

EXACTLY!

I have been so busy worrying about how everyone else feels, the only time I listen to my own feelings is when things are good with us. Then I fall hook line and sinker... .only to be let down again. I seem to have a cylcle where I've had enough, feel strong, and then start ruminating over the good times. I have to break the cycle -I see that any outside person would've walked away a long long time ago. I actually laughed at myself re-reading my posts, thinking "if this (or that) (or another thing) isn't the point of no return, I don't know what is!".
I'm actually getting frustrated with myself for being too weak right now to just put an end to this.

[formflier]

I'm actually getting frustrated with myself for being too weak right now to just put an end to this.

There are other options other than "end it".

Much better to get strong enough to "take the next step" towards better boundaries... .

Who knows... .maybe with a calmer relationship you won't want to end it.

FF

[chillamom]

 

Allienoah,

Hope you are feeling a bit less exhausted todav- these situations are draining in a way that I've never experienced before, really to the point where there is little energy left to make good decisions about ANYTHING.  In answer to your questions, there is no tension directly with my children at this point because I have absolutely established a boundary that he can NEVER be in my home when they are around.  The last time I attempted to have them under the same roof was in December 2015, and my oldest (now 28) was so terrified by his mere presence that she cried for hours afterwards.  She was insulted by him on many occasions over the years I was with him (9 this month, minus several breakups).  My younger kids (twins, 19 who live at home) are afraid of him as well; everyone has seen and heard his rages and most of all they see how he has turned me into a cowed and depressed version of myself.  The twins rightfully note that he has literally been around half their lives, and most of what they remember about their adolescence is the two of us fighting.  I hate myself more than I can express for what I have done to them with this relationship, but honestly, all 3 of them seem to be FINE, largely because, I think, I have kept him the hell out of their lives completely.  My absolute boundary, which he whines about but so far respects, is that he WILL NEVER BE AROUND THEM AGAIN.  EVER.

Obviously, this is untenable for any kind of relationship, and in our latest recycle he and I are literally seeing each other a few hours a week.  He says he accepts and understands this, but I know it is unfair to him.  I am a mess right now, obviously (and I hope this isn't too incoherent).  I am ending this again soon.  I have to.  And this time I have to find a way to finally go NC.  He charmed me back this time by screaming, crying, begging and pleading for 5 months,  Every day.  Hundreds of texts and messages a day.  I thought NC was cruel so I didn't  do it.  Instead I gave in and I hate myself.  

There is still a great deal of tension.  Every time I see him I am waiting for him to start in with the screaming, name calling, accusations, etc, etc.  So far he has been on "good behavior" but cracks are starting to show.  It will be easier for me to leave again if he acts out, but he may be trying to control himself so I will "remember him as a good person" which is a major concern of his,

Allienoah, I really do relate with your struggle, and it has literally come down to him versus my children.  There is no contest.  As my T said, think about your future relationships with your kids - what if they never accept him?  When they have their own children, what if they don't want to come to your home because he is there?  What if you aren't invited to their weddings because of him?  The rest of your life and your relationship with them could be adversely affected because of this man WHO MISTREATS YOU ANYWAY.

Head over heart, Allienoah….can we support each other on this?

[knackered]

Hello! 

I logged in today to write my story but thought I'd scroll through a few first. I don't need to write my story now because MY story is YOUR story. The only difference is that my husband lives with us.

I have read all the advice you've been given and taken a lot on board myself. I've only just joined this site and am amazed that:

1. There's a name for his behaviour
2. There's so many people going through this
3. I can seek help and advice anonymously
4. The advice is beyond awesome
5. I'm not alone
6. I've got this

One thing I've found is that I've lost myself in this relationship. I was reading about how a borderline relationship evolves and it fits perfectly with our 'timeline'. I never saw outbursts (or what I call meltdowns) until after we married. To the outside world, we were the perfect couple. Loving, attentive etc.

Once a Borderline Controller has succeeded and is in control, the Hater appears. This hateful part of her may have emerged before, but you probably will not see it in full, acidic bloom until she feels she has achieved a firm hold on your conscience and compassion -- but when that part makes its first appearance, rage is how it breaks into your life.

What was the trigger? A bank statement in his and his ex-wife's name was sent to our house. Innocently, (and calmly) I asked "Why would you still have a joint account with your ex?" The neighbourhood heard the result of that... .

Sorry, I digressed... .

Like you, I have adult children (+ one at high school). The younger two live with us. The one saving grace that I can see is that your b/f does not live with you, and therefore you have the chance for quality time with your kids. I have a great relationship with my kids, and we laugh & carry on like always, but as soon as H walks in from work, they scatter.

Only yesterday, I had a good long chat with my kids. They want him gone. They can't put up with his moods, his yelling, and his treatment of me any more. I'm trying to work out how some of the advice put to you can be applied in my situation too. They avoid him, retreat to their rooms etc, but then I get "Your kids won't even try". How can I, in the nicest possible way, tell him that it's his fault? Because as we all know, it's never their fault, it's everyone elses!

We secretly call him Henny Penny... .it was a story from when I was young about a chicken who had an acorn drop on it's head and she went around telling everyone the sky was falling... .makes me laugh because that's what it's like in our house. My son leaves a teaspoon on the sink and suddenly we're all copping it. *sigh*

Anyway... .

give your kids a huge hug, say thank you for their support, and make sure they know how important they are to you. That's all I've got for you, sorry. I'm handing over to the experts!

All the best, stay strong and focussed. Your kids need you more than they let on, and more than you realise. You've got this! 

[formflier]

  How can I, in the nicest possible way, tell him that it's his fault?

Small thread hijack to make a very important point! 

First of all

Knackered,



I'm glad you found us.  We can help.

Since I don't know much about your story, I'm going to stick with very general advice.

Boundaries:  We all need to stick to "our roles".  I want to assure everyone that it's NOT our role to convince anyone else of anything.  It is our role to accurately evaluate our role in things and change what we can control... .which is us.

Now... .from time to time others (usually the pwBPD) will try to convince us of things, usually trying to convince us that "it's our fault".  More specifically that their feelings and dysfunctional reactions are our fault.

As you well know, this is very hard to resist "saying something" about.

Yet... .trying to convince them that they are wrong is NOT our role.  Trust me, they "get something" from arguing about this kind of thing.  "It works for them... " in a dysfunctional way. 

Our job is to not participate.

One last visual.  Imagine they are "tossing" responsibility at us. 

First of all... .don't catch it.
Second of all... .don't "toss it back".

It is so temping to "toss it back at them".  They will claim that since you didn't toss it back... .you are taking it.  Nope... .and don't explain it either... .just "let it lie their on the floor".

Knackered... .what do you think about these general points.  How has this type of thing played out in your r/s? 

FF hijack almost over!   

FF

[knackered]

Code:

Now... .from time to time others (usually the pwBPD) will try to convince us of things, usually trying to convince us that "it's our fault".  More specifically that their feelings and dysfunctional reactions are our fault.

As you well know, this is very hard to resist "saying something" about.

You're not wrong! But when I bite my tongue and don't respond, I'm pushed for a response. It's so hard to not blurt out what's on your mind!

One comment that I constantly hear is "It was the way you looked at me" or "It was your tone of voice" which leaves me so confused. And I find myself having to explain that there was nothing in my look or tone that should have been taken the wrong way.

It's human nature to want to stand up for yourself when you know you've done nothing wrong. So I'm reading, and re-reading everything on this site to learn how to deal with this.

So, how has this played out in my r/s? Great question... .

When I stumbled across the site, I had a major light bulb moment. Members' stories, the advice, the descriptions... ."oh my! That's me!" is all I kept saying. Or "Wow, that description is so spot on!"

You're correct though. He DOES toss the responsibility at me. And yes, I do toss it back at times. I've found that if I try to leave it alone - let it lie, he 'hunts me down' for a response. He pushes it. It's infuriating!

Quick example: Tonight he came home from work and made a comment about some sauce (Ketchup to most of you!) on the kitchen counter. My response was "Oh sorry, that was me. I had that out earlier, I didn't notice I'd spilt it" (counter is black). In a typical relationship, you'd expect that to be the end of it. Clean up, move on. But no, it's followed up with "Have I said the wrong thing by saying that?" I chose to ignore that comment and went about my business. Not long after I'm asked "What's wrong?" Ah, here we go. "Nothing's wrong, why?" and out comes the "It's the way you looked at me".

Trip to the shops together and I'm cornered in the car. "It's your tone of voice, it's this and that". Persistent badgering to elicit a response. All I could think of to try and diffuse the out of control situation was say "I'm sorry my response made you feel that way, it wasn't my intention". All the way home I got "Yeah but you do... .and you say... ."

The rest of the night was spent in silence. "Aren't you going to talk to me now?" "Sure, if you want to talk, I'm happy to. What did you want to talk about?" And the cycle begins again... .

No wonder I'm 'knackered'!

Thanks for listening. I'm off to make boundaries! 

[formflier]

Big picture:

As you have seen, he pushes for the responses that he wants... .because they work for him

Your job is to stop giving those responses.  He will push harder.

When he does something "healthy" with you, give him praise and attention (fill his need), when he is inappropriate... .he gets nothing.

This will take a while, but he wants to "fill the need" and will do what it takes to get it.  It will take time for him to be convinced the old way isn't working anymore.

Note:  The above process can be done without his knowledge or agreement.  You change your part and he will have to change his.

There are lots of details to fill in, but it is important that you understand the big picture.

Last big picture:  Stop "fixing" or "helping" his feelings.

Example:

"Blah blah blah... .there is ketchup on the counter... .blah blah blah... ."

"I'm glad you noticed, it would mean a lot to me if you wipe it up"

"blah blah blah I work all day and you can't wipe up ketchup... .blah blah blah"

"Oh my goodness, you sound upset.  Do I have that right?"

"blah blah blah I wouldn't be upset if you could wipe up ketchup and you never have relish in the fridge, even though you know I relish relish.  Why do you treat me this way, especially after all I do for you, my friends wife wipes up ketchup her her house... .he never has a dirty countertop and he has all the onions he wants... .you never give me onions because you hate me"

(stay friendly)

"It seems you have had quite a day.  I'll get back together with you in 15 minutes after things have calmed" (never say you)  I'm going to clear my head a bit"

Note the time and "getting back together" (emphasizes being a couple).   You identify the issue (not calm) without blaming.  You take ownership for leaving and taking care of yourself.  He can and will do what he will do.

Come back in 15 minutes... .wash rinse repeat.


FF

[allienoah]

Sorry--I took a time out for myself yesterday to really consider all that is happening
Chillamom-hand over heart yes let's support each other with this situation. I would love to say that my bf should just stay away when I am home with my kids, but he has been very clear that he would never accept that ''restriction". But everything else you spoke of, we share the same experience, so let's bond in our healing.

I have really been digesting that my kids do truly love me. and that they are trying so hard to get a message through to me that I deserve better than this. Even as they handle it poorly, they ARE maintaining THEIR boundaries and I have to respect that. I am also going to have to do some serious damage control no matter what happens. I have gone through the recycle so many times, that no one ever thinks I am done, or he's done, etc.
Right now I just want to communicate to bf some of the boundaries that formflier suggested for me. I have to do it now or I will continue in this state of flux. My bf did escalate things to a level that is potentially dangerous, if not physically, certainly emotionally.
I really have to keep my relationship with my kids separate, and not share anything with my bf -it always comes back to bite me when I do.

I think that the last boundary that FF sent me, (if he doesn't want to be in a r/s with me despite my children's role in my life, he is free to leave) deserves some merit and I have to accept that. In essence he IS asking me to choose between him and them.

[formflier]

     

I'm so excited for you!  You took deliberate, thoughtful action for self care and to reflect on where you are in your relationship.  That is so very important!

Great job doing that!

Can you practice with us what you intend to communicate with your boyfriend?

What does "damage control" look like to you?  What is the difference in damage control and "fixing"?

Big picture truth:  It is much MORE important what you DO to enforce a boundary and much LESS important what you communicate (say).  Your actions will speak louder than your words.  Especially actions that are consistent.

Thoughts?

FF

[allienoah]

You know, I feel that damage control in this case is trying to repair the broken relationships I have experienced as a part of my r/s with bf. So I guess that means "fixing" to me. It might just take a very long time.

I know already I am walking into a minefield today, as my bf wanted my son to clean up my basement where he had hung lights and posters. My bf felt that he had cleaned it and my son was getting too "comfortable" and making it a man-cave. My bf feels disrespected because his hard work to clean it out has been tampered with. I tell you this because here is my opportunity to lay out my boundary that his involvement with my kids is 100% revoked as of right now. It is my house. I will see to what does and does not get done. If this is the way bf will act whenever he helps me with something, I will no longer ask. AND when bf goes on and on about my accepting the lights and posters in the basement, I will calmly tell him it is none of his concern. that I appreciated his cleaning it out, but my son is home for the present and he can make it homey while he is there. If he doesn't like this, he is free to leave.

BF: I thought S was going to get his crap out of the basement
Me: I am going to allow him to keep it there while he lives here.
BF: I cleaned that basement out and had it spotless. This is disrespectful to me
Me: I am sorry you feel that way. I am truly grateful you cleaned it out, and my s is home now and needs some space.
BF: You are ungrateful, you allow S to disrespect you and in turn ME! WE DISCUSSED KEEPING IT EMPTY!
Me: Yes we did, yet I feel S needs some space.

We all know where it goes from there---storming out, raging, bullying, a discard, projection,
This time though I am ready for it and will not engage.

[formflier]

Me: Yes we did, yet I feel S needs some space.
 

This is a pretty good back and forth.  Two big observations.

"I agree with you, we did discuss this.  As you know, things have changed since that discussion and I have changed my mind.  It would mean a lot to me for you to respect my feelings on my basement.  Can you do that for me?"


Always always always... .agree with them if you can find something to agree with them on.

Then you set your boundary and end it with a simple question that also puts you in control.

If he blathers on.  "I'm willing to continue this conversation when you are able to answer my question."

No more interaction after that, ask him to leave if he persists.  Your home, your rules... .no compromise on that.

None... .

Let him experience "banging" into that boundary as much as he wants.

I think this is much better than making it about your kids.  You want to remove them from the issue... by making it about you and your rules.  


Second observation is that by discussing the kids with him, you "validate" or agree by action that his input is ok and "welcome".  Somehow you just need to stop discussing it or set a hard boundary in another way.

Stay friendly and even point him back to your relationship.

"I'm the parent and will handle parenting.  It would mean a lot to me if you would handle our dinner plans for tonight, I'm looking forward to coming together with you in our date night."

See the quandary that leaves him in.  You set a boundary... .he will not be happy... .you are offering relationship with him... he may be happy.

Respect his choice.  Either way... .go out to dinner and enjoy YOURSELF... .with or without him.

Thoughts?

FF

[Grey Kitty]

One thought on this boundary with your bf about what your son does in the basement and what you allow... .

You don't need to convince your bf that you are right about this and he is wrong about this... .or convince him that your son ISN'T disrespecting either you or your bf.

You need to convince him that you won't change your mind and you won't discuss it further. (And let him feel however he is going to feel about it!)

If he is too upset to be with you after that, it is his choice.

Chances are he will get over it.

[allienoah]

Very good advice! I followed that script-acknowledging that we had discussed it, I had changed my mind, please respect my decision... I was then treated to a screaming rage in the car all the way home. Windows were open and yes I was once again mortified. But this time I asked 3 times for him to stop. I shared my thought that I parent my kids and he parents his. Well he didn't stop, he dropped me off at home and took off... telling me he's done... .(once again). You know what? I was very calm and know deep down I did nothing wrong. I didn't JADE , I didn't scream back. I quietly sat and listened, got home and went about my business . It's his problem now. And I'm ok with that right now. He said such awful things about me and my son. Sorry you don't get to do that.
FF and grey kitty you both have said when I set boundaries he isn't going to like it and might leave.