Am I understanding this correctly?

[forlorn]

Hi!  Had a big blowout with my boyfriend on Monday night, and I am trying to make sense of it using some of the information I've read.  

First - during our fight, he repeatedly asked me why I don't just go ahead and break up with him if I think he's treating me badly.  Aside from not really understanding why in and of itself, what I've read about this leads me to think that this is really his fear of abandonment by me talking.  Is that possibly correct?  I've always thought of it as a sign that he has one foot out the door.

Second - during the life cycle of our fights, and this one included, it seems to me that he progressively sees me as being a worse and worse person, until he finally verbalizes this in the form of name calling like "piece of sh##"or some other form of verbal abuse.  Then, once the storm has passed, I become someone good and kind and loving.  I don't really feel like he's putting me on a pedestal, but then that could be my own hypercritical vision of myself overriding what he's saying.  Thoughts?

Third - with the storm passed, we were discussing something last night, and the subject of his mother came up.  He told me that while he knows she has some faults, she is almost holy in his mind, just short of being a saint.  In truth, she is a lovely person, and I have great respect for her.  But a saint?  That seems over the top.  Could that be evidence of black and white thinking?  For context, he sees his dad as pure evil.  Given everything I know about his dad, I can see why he has some ill feelings, but I also see his dad trying very hard to connect with him.  Flawed and foolish in some ways, but certainly not the devil incarnate.

I guess I'm just trying to get some idea of whether or not I'm on the right track.  I feel like I distrust my own judgement at this point.  I want very much to feel solid in myself so that I can begin to make better choices, and for me, that means understanding the context around me.

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[halcyon]

I think you're spot on with #1.  It's probably a mixture of fear of abandonment and him being his own worst critic.  My partner often says things like, "I'm not good enough for you." or "You deserve better than me."  I could be wrong, but it sounds like he's doing something similar when he says "why don't you just break up with me?"  He probably literally wonders why you don't, because he probably thinks he's not worth the struggle.  At least, I know that is how my partner's brain often works.  She calls it "beating herself up" or "self-sabotage."

The first part of #2 seems pretty cut and dry.  He's pushing you farther and farther away when his verbal abuse escalates.  I can tell you what I try to do (and do not always succeed at).  If I feel my partner "heading" in that direction (towards verbal abuse, I mean), I try to shut it down ASAP, before it has time to get totally out of control.  And I try to do this by asking for a "time out".  Neither of us is allowed to speak about the issue during a time out.  In fact, we often go to seperate rooms.  Sometimes she goes for a bike ride; sometimes I take a hot bath.  But the whole point is to let her emotions cool down enough to see that she's starting to get out of control.  If I can do this successfully, she usually apologizes rather quickly, and we can move on with our day without any further problems.  There are TWO times this doesn't work:  One is when I make the mistake of "jade-ing".  J.A.D.E.  Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain.  If I take her verbal assaults personally, and I begin to try to justify, argue, defend, or explain myself or my actions, I am just throwing fuel on the fire.  Why?  Because I didn't do anything that needs justification, arguments, defending, or explanations.  And, even if I did, she is not in the proper emotional state to listen to reason.  She has to be cooled down in order to that (so it really MUST wait, no matter how personally offended I feel).

The other time it doesn't work is when she takes the "time out" in an offensive way.  Like, "Oh, you need a time out?  So now you're mad at me, is that it?  How dare you!"  And, well... .there's nothing I can do about that, expect take the time out anyway and have faith she'll cool down and see that the time out WAS, in fact, needed (which she always does, eventually).

The second part of #2- feeling like he's maybe putting you on a pedestal- is a little trickier for me.  Is it "idealization"?  Sometimes it might be; sometimes it might just be his genuine feeling towards you.  I tend to think that when they are calm they are their "full selves".  Whole and in one piece, instead of being cut into pieces by the BPD.  So, when my partner is calm, I tend not to question what she says.  If she says "you're amazing" when she's calm, then I just smile and say, "thanks, I think you're pretty amazing too."  And I SOAK THAT STUFF IN, because those are the moments that keep me from falling apart.

She DID "idealize" me, very early on in the relationship.  And I can say it had a different "feel" to it.  It was rather "manic", if you know what I mean?  "Over the top", instead of seeming genuine.  Now, it seems genuine and not as "manic".

As for the 3rd part... .I wouldn't get too involved in that if it were me.  Is it "black/white" thinking on his part?  Maybe.  But since it doesn't directly effect you or the relationship, I would just listen and be a shoulder to lean on.  If it were me, I'd probably suspect there's more to his relationship with his Father than he's willing to open up about right now.  Possibly things you're unaware of.  But I wouldn't push to get this information.  Like I said, just listen and love maybe?  He will likely tell you more when he's ready.

You're already on the right track, because you're here on this site  I highly suggest going through the "lessons" to the right of this page, if you haven't already.  They helped me a lot!  And good luck to you!

[lostandconfused6]

Hi!  Had a big blowout with my boyfriend on Monday night, and I am trying to make sense of it using some of the information I've read.  

First - during our fight, he repeatedly asked me why I don't just go ahead and break up with him if I think he's treating me badly.  Aside from not really understanding why in and of itself, what I've read about this leads me to think that this is really his fear of abandonment by me talking.  Is that possibly correct?  I've always thought of it as a sign that he has one foot out the door.

Second - during the life cycle of our fights, and this one included, it seems to me that he progressively sees me as being a worse and worse person, until he finally verbalizes this in the form of name calling like "piece of sh##"or some other form of verbal abuse.  Then, once the storm has passed, I become someone good and kind and loving.  I don't really feel like he's putting me on a pedestal, but then that could be my own hypercritical vision of myself overriding what he's saying.  Thoughts?

Third - with the storm passed, we were discussing something last night, and the subject of his mother came up.  He told me that while he knows she has some faults, she is almost holy in his mind, just short of being a saint.  In truth, she is a lovely person, and I have great respect for her.  But a saint?  That seems over the top.  Could that be evidence of black and white thinking?  For context, he sees his dad as pure evil.  Given everything I know about his dad, I can see why he has some ill feelings, but I also see his dad trying very hard to connect with him.  Flawed and foolish in some ways, but certainly not the devil incarnate.

I guess I'm just trying to get some idea of whether or not I'm on the right track.  I feel like I distrust my own judgement at this point.  I want very much to feel solid in myself so that I can begin to make better choices, and for me, that means understanding the context around me.

Your situation is so similar to mine it's crazy right down to the family part (his dad really is no good though)

I asked my boyfriend during one of our honest talks if he asks me why i'm still with him because of his view of himself and said yes he feels he doesn't deserve someone like me. I also asked if he threatens to leave sometimes when we fight before he feels i'm going to do it he said "yes most of the time i do it to beat you to the punch" which i never would leave him over a fight that i know is brought on by his BPD

His family is okay to talk about some days some days he tells me to shut up they arent my family and i can't speak about them the way he does.

What i've learned and experienced is my BF will use insults as a knee jerk reaction when he is " backed into a corner" by something we are talking about i've also learned a trigger of his is talking about a sensitive subject for longer than 30 min or a hour he will say he's over loaded and worn out... .i am the kind of person that wants to come to a solution right then and there and put it behind us. So we cam to an agreement he will write down what we were talking about and think about it then next time he sees me in person we will discuss it but when he tells me to stop talking about something i have to say 1 last thing and stop

it's work but i can honestly say we are making progress

[Tattered Heart]

First - during our fight, he repeatedly asked me why I don't just go ahead and break up with him if I think he's treating me badly.  Aside from not really understanding why in and of itself, what I've read about this leads me to think that this is really his fear of abandonment by me talking.  Is that possibly correct?  I've always thought of it as a sign that he has one foot out the door.

This sounds like push/pull behavior. He is challenging you to push him away because that is what he expects you to do. He may know that most people would leave their partner for behaving the way he has and he wants to see if you will do the same. 

Second - during the life cycle of our fights, and this one included, it seems to me that he progressively sees me as being a worse and worse person, until he finally verbalizes this in the form of name calling like "piece of sh##"or some other form of verbal abuse.  Then, once the storm has passed, I become someone good and kind and loving.  I don't really feel like he's putting me on a pedestal, but then that could be my own hypercritical vision of myself overriding what he's saying.  Thoughts?

This cycle is very familiar: idealization, devaluation, discard. The relationship starts out great. You both seem to be clicking well, you may have strong feelings of being in love and being perfect for each other. He may compliment you or brag about you to friends. And then, over time, reality begins to set in. Stress builds.  He begins to see your flaws (after all, everyone has them), and at some point, those flaws remind him of the flaws in himself. Black & white thinking make it difficult for someone to have gray areas. He can no longer idealize someone who has flaws and so that means the person must be painted black. After the blow up, he may retreat or pull back a little. IN some relationships, the pwBPD leaves. And soon, the relationship recycles and it starts all over again.

Third - with the storm passed, we were discussing something last night, and the subject of his mother came up.  He told me that while he knows she has some faults, she is almost holy in his mind, just short of being a saint.  In truth, she is a lovely person, and I have great respect for her.  But a saint?  That seems over the top.  Could that be evidence of black and white thinking?  For context, he sees his dad as pure evil.  Given everything I know about his dad, I can see why he has some ill feelings, but I also see his dad trying very hard to connect with him.  Flawed and foolish in some ways, but certainly not the devil incarnate.

Could it be that he also go through an idealization/devalue cycle with his mom? Or could it be a karpman drama triangle between him, his mom, and his dad? Have you been together long enough to see if his idealization towards his mother is a constant or fluctuating idea?

[forlorn]

It's amazing how helpful it is to read your posts!  I really appreciate hearing your perspectives - and hearing the details about how you handle this things is invaluable.  After dealing with this so long I have ingrained in my mind how I think my boyfriend will react, but really, is that fair?  I think I need to at least try.  After all, I really hate it when someone assumes they know exactly what I would do or say without allowing me the opportunity to decide for myself.  Thanks for responding, and I really look forward to hearing more.

[lostandconfused6]

It's amazing how helpful it is to read your posts!  I really appreciate hearing your perspectives - and hearing the details about how you handle this things is invaluable.  After dealing with this so long I have ingrained in my mind how I think my boyfriend will react, but really, is that fair?  I think I need to at least try.  After all, I really hate it when someone assumes they know exactly what I would do or say without allowing me the opportunity to decide for myself.  Thanks for responding, and I really look forward to hearing more.

I like to test the waters sometimes and try to gauge his mood when talking about touchy subjects , it's about 50/50 with good and bad results getting better though it used to be 70% bad... .and with that being said sometimes it will be going well and then a rage comes about in the middle of it which i know is very common for BPD.  I try my hardest not to assume the worst as a non i feel it is about trial and error i also make sure to express my appreciation when he is receptive to what i say and also when he communicates well with me! I tell him it means the world to me and thank him, i just keep it short sweet and to the point.

I've learned very quickly validating his feelings helps a lot and also sometimes when i know ive done nothing and hes saying hurtful things to me i say "please remember who you're talking to right now i'm here for you to talk to and vent to but not to beat up on i'm on your team" and he seems to snap out of it fairly quickly

i feel like i'm undoing 33 years of learned behaviors and all the terrible lessons his exs have taught him along with working 50-60 hours a week raising a 9 y/o running a hous and finding time to actually see him and dealing with my MS some days i dont know how i do it but i just tell myself i've come this far i;ve put in a year and a half and i'm not walking away from someone that deserves to be loved the way i know i can... .call me selfish but i'm determined