How do I respond to constant ignorance?

[bus boy]

Mother dying f*****g f**k, I can't stand having to coparent with that ignorant f*****g quiff Xw wife of mine. Every time I have to communicate with her about s10 she has to give me a dirty rotten f*****g ignorant answer. To day I asked a very reasonable question about s10's day camp next week bc s10 is with me next week. I was told the 18th, it's a Tuesday, I thought it odd starting on Tuesday instead of Monday so I double checked with the slink, she couldn't just leave it and give me a normal answer, she had to throw in a rude answer. I am boiling in side right now. I want to tell her, I know ignorance is bread right in you, you can't help yourself but save it for your f*****g Frenchman BF not me.
 What the f**k do I do? What's up with this? I don't talk to her, I have absolutely nothing to do with her, but her unnecessary rudeness, her BF's unnecessary actions, her driving by my house, harassing my sister, and on. I'm a f*****g good solid hard working man, good provider to s10, always there and reliable, the lady in family court said I'm an exemplary father, she wishes more fathers were like me but Xw, her BF and Xw family treat me like I'm some kind of a child molesting wife beater. I've done f**k to Xw, didn't run around, nothing that would call for this kind of treatment. It sounds so petty of me, it was only a few words but her words cut to the bone, belittle, demoralize. She is the most cruelest person with her words I ever met, it is a constant belittling. I wish I could put into words the affect her cruel venomous words have.

[Panda39]

Next time go straight to the “Horse’s Mouth”… the Day Camp Director.

When you can, you should always go to the direct source not to your ex for information; she will always use it as a way to jerk your chain.  Doctor, Teacher, Friend’s Parents, Day Camp Director, Dentist…whoever else is involved go to them for the truth and a straight answer.

I’m attaching some information about Radical Acceptance because I see you repeating a pattern…

You hope or expect that with every interaction that she is going to be nice, respectful, polite etc and are then disappointed or angry when she behaves like she always does…Unless she has treatment she will not change.  She will always bring her BPD behaviors learn to accept that she is who she is and expect BPD behavior and you will save yourself a lot of heartache and energy.

Radical acceptance

Radical acceptance was developed by Marsha Linehan, PhD.  from the University of Washington (see article) and is based on the ancient Zen philosophy that each moment is complete by itself, and that the world is perfect as it is. Zen focuses on acceptance, validation, and tolerance instead of change.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0

Panda39

[Ulysses]

Hey bus boy, I've been there, too, where I don't understand why I receive emails or comments that feel like I'm being attacked by exH and his wife.  It hurts and it's hard for me to remember the positive aspects of myself at times like these.  It's understandable to be angry when someone jerks you around like this. 

It's normal to be angry about the treatment from your exW.  I recently was talking to a friend who, when I told him about the latest email, asked me if I was angry, and told me he would be really angry if he received an email like that (and he is a counselor). 

As Panda said, I doubt your exW is going to change without treatment.  I was told by my marriage counselor that my exH would not change unless he sought treatment.  In that case, the marriage counselor said it would take at least a decade for exH to change.  If your exW isn't going to change, that means she's going to keep sending emails and treating you in a hurtful way.  Do you want to change how you react/respond to that treatment?  I think it's the only thing you have control over. 

Most likely, your exW is not going to offer you validation or the common courtesy you are looking for, ever. 

Radical Acceptance has helped me (I think). 

I still feel upset when I receive the nasty emails, but less and less.  Talking with my therapist helped.   

Do you journal the facts of the situation and your feelings?  That has helped me see some patterns. 

Radical Acceptance also helps me to focus on my children.  I can take the cr*p, even though it hurts and I begin to doubt myself.  I spend time reflecting on how can I stay objective and a little removed from the emotion in order to better understand what my children experience when they're with their other parent, when they're with me, and overall, as children of divorce.  It's a work in progress.

Can you find any humor in the situation?  Even dark humor, as long as you don't share it with exW, can help you let off a little steam. 

What self-care do you practice?  Who do you have in your life who helps reflect your good qualities back to you?
 

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear bus boy-

Very frustrating, I know!  I agree wholeheartedly with Panda and Ulysses about going straight to the "horse's mouth " for accurate information (and to minimize contact); and to also read about Radical Acceptance.

I do something sort of strange to manage my own anger... .I do these "silent primal screams".  I know, sounds kind of dumb, but it works.  I put myself into a quiet place, eyes closed, listen to my breathing and see myself either by the sea or at the side of a canyon.  Then I REALLY listen to my breathing.  When I'm ready (and believe me, my mind is NEVER quiet), I gather up a deep soul amount of breath, and I let out the LOUDEST silent primal scream I possibly can.  Stay there for as long as you like.  It can take a few practice screams before you start to get some relief, but give it a go.  And feel free to scream silent obscenities, if you wish.

Please take care of yourself.  Your son loves you.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[bus boy]

Hi Panda39, I really caused my self a lot of unnecessary stress today. I don't know what possessed me to contact Xw about day camp. After I got home from work I thought to my self, why didn't I call the town rec department my self. That's what I did last summer. I must admit there is a part of me looking for that respectful feed back. After 12 years of being talked to like a dog I should only ever expect nothing but that from her.

[bus boy]

Hi Ulysses, my T helps me an awful lot to reflect my good qualities, my T has been a tremendous help to me. I have read radical acceptance, it didn't sink in, I will read it again. My T says it a sign of just how normal I am when Xw words hurt me like that bc my brain doesn't know where to put it, it has a difficult time processing bc I can't think like that.
 I've learned a lot in the past year about accepting and letting go. Last summer Xw planned her vacation time in a very devious underhand way that resulted in me loosing a total of 22 access days, she planned her vacation time around my access time, the judge made changes to the court order to prevent Xw from doing that again but she just found another way around it, I'm not even going to try and challenge it like I did last year, she will never stop she just finds a different way to manipulate the wording of the order. It's like it's all a big game to her and she can't see any logic, I've asked her to make some very logical reasonable changes but she refuses. I am learning slow but sure. It felt good to let go of how she deviously planned her vacation again this year.

[bus boy]

Hi Gemsforeyes, I heard of what you are saying, I must try it. I could of used your method today, I was so frustrated at work I really had a very bad day.
 It's also been hard to get in contact with s10, he hasn't been returning my texts, I text good morning, good night but when he is with me his mother texts all the time and he has his phone glued to his hands. Sometimes I make him leave it home or in the car. Last weekend we went out on the 4 wheelers for several hours and I made him leave his phone at home, that was the first thing he went for when we got home. He gets very anxious when he doesn't have his phone and misses texts from his mother.

[Ulysses]

Hi bus boy,

I really like what your T said here:

My T says it a sign of just how normal I am when Xw words hurt me like that bc my brain doesn't know where to put it, it has a difficult time processing bc I can't think like that.

I don't know if it will help you, but I have come to a point where mostly I accept ahead-of-time that exH will not follow the rules or will manipulate things or will not agree to a request (and do so in an unpleasant way).  BUT, I ask it anyway, or document that I don't agree because it e.g. violates the parenting plan.  My thought process is: I understand he won't agree/not violate it, etc., and I have to be prepared to accept that (and a potentially mean email criticizing me).  But I ask/email anyway because I want to document it.  It may/will/has come in handy.

If your exW is violating court orders, if there is any way you can document that you have told her this, and it takes away your access days, and you don't agree, and "I prefer that we follow the court order/judge's ruling and do XYZ," I think that is very important.  Try to do it in a BIFF way.  

I guess what I'm saying is you can accept that she's not going to change, and you can still communicate with her in order to document that she is violating court orders.  Just perhaps understand that she may likely come back at you with a nasty response.  But you can be prepared and decide ahead-of-time how you want to handle the emotions that come along with that, and if it's not necessary to respond, then you don't have to.

[Panda39]

Hi bus boy,

Don't beat yourself up, we've all fallen for this stuff I'm just trying to point it out so you are able to have more awareness when you interact with your ex next time.

The stuff she is doing is about her, not you, try to take a step back and think... .this is about her not about me... .detach and try not to take it personally or let it get under your skin.

Panda39

[david]

My ex used to try to take access time away from me. I simply stated the court order in an email and gave her the time I was taking as make up time. It was up to her at that point. If she said no then I would file a contempt charge and go to court pro se. The first time I used an attorney. I used his paperwork as a template for the next time and went to the court to figure out the rest like time to file etc. It took my ex the second time I filed to get that I was not going to let it go. Now I simply give her the make up time in an email,and she agrees. It took some time to figure out but it worked eventually.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi there Bus Boy-
I hope you're feeling better today.  One more thing, and I'm sure you'll need guidance from a T with this, is the anxiety your exW is causing your little guy with her non-stop texting during YOUR time.  In my humble opinion, isn't that crossing a line?  Maybe I'm off base, but I feel your S10 should be able to relax into his private time with his dad without her constant interruptions.  Is there any way to raise that with the courts?  I fear She's creating intense dependence on him at a very early age.  Please DON'T bring it up with him, though.  He should NOT be put in the middle.  Maybe you've already dealt with this issue.  It just never ends, does it?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[40days_in_desert]

Hey bus boy, I want to echo what Ulysses and Panda39 said, "we've all been there". I'll share something my T told me; an analogy. She said that most interactions with my ex are like a game of tug of war - it takes two. Ex is constantly throwing the rope over to my side but it's my choice to pick it up. Don't pick up the rope. I admit that the temptation is there sometimes.

[david]

We had a custody order years back making the summer 50/50. I let ex make the schedule since it was easier, less back and forth, and as long as it was 50/50 I would work with it. The first summer went fine. The second summer ex sent a schedule, email, at 60/40, then 65/35, then 70/30. I said no to each. Time was running out so I filed a petition to get the courts involved. Ex made a mediation meeting to resolve the issue. It was scheduled the day before our hearing date.
It was a big waste of time. Finally I agreed to 70/30 in a separate room with the mediator. I bet the mediator ex would not agree. The mediator looked confused. We went in the communal room where ex said no. The mediator explained that I was agreeing to exactly what she was asking. Ex still would not budge. I stood up, thanked the mediator, said to ex that I would see her in court tomorrow, and walked out. I had no intention of agreeing with 70/30 but wanted the mediator to get it.
The next day in court ex had a schedule that was 50/50 like the order said. Took 15 to 20 minutes to resolve. Never had a problem after that about the summer schedule. I was so used to the bs from ex the entire thing didn't phase me except for the fact that it took time out of my life to have to deal with it.
Looking back I believe my not reacting to whatever ex throws at me helped defuse things and eventually changed ex for the better since I wasn't giving her what she wanted, to tick me off. I view it as a change in power dynamics. She still does things to try to upset me. The latest backfired on her and a son, my stepson. He finally went NC and is sick of her bs. I stayed out of the fray. That is number two stepson going NC with their mom. I get along great with both of them. This started in 2007 so it did take time.

[Turkish]

Hi Panda39, I really caused my self a lot of unnecessary stress today. I don't know what possessed me to contact Xw about day camp. After I got home from work I thought to my self, why didn't I call the town rec department my self. That's what I did last summer. I must admit there is a part of me looking for that respectful feed back. After 12 years of being talked to like a dog I should only ever expect nothing but that from her.

If I had to drill down to the primary emotion here, I'd say it is just what you did: lack of respect, especially since nothing you've done warrants disrespect from her (and certainly not by her childish boyfriend either... .I'm still aghast from your story of him making the cross noises... .what a silly little man!).

The radical acceptance is that you aren't going to get blood from those turnips.  Ever. You have to gift respect to yourself.  That will be your armour. 

Sorry to hear about your boy still feeling anxious about contacting his mother so much.  Can you make him chop a cord of wood, while you enjoy a Molson supervising, before he gets his phone back the next time he goes out on the quads? 

[StayStrongNow]

busboy I have been reading your posts for sometime now. I always like to read you posts, you are a straight shooter. I can relate to your frustrations, you know these pwBPD cannot possess the logic us NONs can, without treatment they never will. Oh those circular arguments with all those added criticisms. You know the drill coming from the BPD, you are to blame.

I had enough from my xBPDw of all the "stuff" I get from her so I decided to have in my iPhone Notes a text ready to fire away next time I get criticism. I found that as I keep the powder dry on firing this off to her and by re-reading it, this text gives me so much peace of mind. There are some Ts out there that I am sure would say don't ever send it, it probably won't even be understood by the X and most definitely this will set her in denial again and start her off with projection, continuing splitting black, playing the victim, placing blame and all the other messed up junk that cultivates from that lack of sophistication in that part of the brain by the stem that is still in a primitive state.

Anyway here goes:

You keep on with your devaluation of me but I am just going to keep on depersonalizing it. Hence, I am not going to waste my time responding to your criticism. After what I have learned and experienced over these past years I know not to spend any emotional energy and to have limited contact with you is the best practice for me in dealing with people like you with Cluster B personalities.

[Panda39]

Anyway here goes:

You keep on with your devaluation of me but I am just going to keep on depersonalizing it. Hence, I am not going to waste my time responding to your criticism. After what I have learned and experienced over these past years I know not to spend any emotional energy and to have limited contact with you is the best practice for me in dealing with people like you with Cluster B personalities.

I think this is totally fine to keep on your phone if it makes you feel better to do so.

I'm not a Therapist but I wouldn't recommend sending that message simply because it is JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend Explain) and JADE also leads to drama and circular arguments.  The goal is to not feed the drama sending the above message would escalate it.  I also think (even if it is true) "people like you with Cluster B personalities" is name calling and a somewhat bullying.

I hear your anger in the above message and frustration and believe me I understand it but the above message in my opinion might make you feel good in the moment (you get to say your piece) but in the long run it will work against the LC you profess to want.

Panda39

[StayStrongNow]

Panda 39, you are absolutely correct. I greatly appreciate your response to my post. Thank you.

[StayStrongNow]

But then again Panda39 my xBPDw acts with so much constant malevolence despite the LC I give her, to me it's human nature to be angry and want to speak my piece. Though you state to take the high road, you really seem to appear to cuddle and shield this pwBPD. For example you state that I would be "bullying", but in my eyes I see it as calling a "spade a spade."  Perhaps you are one of these pwBPD who are on the site, maybe you are the one who wrote the article about being a BPD by how you wrote that response, but also you definitely don't know how tough it has been for me personally with my specific circumstances to heal and move on. You will never know the carnage this utterly complete Cluster B has exploded upon my children and me.

Anger has what delivered me from distancing me from this Borderline Witch and stopping the stupid dance. It is so hard to restrain back from giving all the mountains evidence back to her that she IS a Cluster B and a lesser Cluster C but primarily and utmost a pwBPD.  I realize that she will fall back on that primitive, defective brain of hers that cannot control emotions. She will undoubtedly bring out all those embryonic defense mechisms including empathy that to me falls into the subhuman category, and will just keep circling the drain. At this point I have no hope for her and would like to see her ride into the sunset and leave me alone permantly.

[AnuDay]

Hello again busboy,
My exUBPDgf is the same way.  I dont communicate by phone or in person.  Rarely through text.  I pick a time to read the texts when I am tired and don't care and can be nonreactive. Then I dont answer right away.  You have to remember BPDs are trained to cut to your core.  You relinquish that power by not showing them your core.  You treat them with the same coldness that they treat you.  It's all about TAKING BACK CONTROL over YOU, your life and your sons.  The BPD has gradually through the years taken everything and ripped you to your core.  You have to build yourself back up to the point where the BPDs words amount to little more than a hill of beans.  Talk to sane people about how insane your ex is.  This helps too.  You must learn to devalue the BPD, their thoughts and their feelings.  Some people may disagree with me, but it works for me.  Take back yourself.  Realize that you are dealing with an energy vampire of sorts.  Read "The Energy Bus".  Its a cute short book.  GL