one month post recycle-discard update

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi gang,

So it's been one month since I fell back into the soup with my ex and my head/heart is still struggling to make sense of all the pieces. I'm still ruminating a lot. I went a couple of weeks without checking social media but then fell off the wagon and checked-- it looks like she's  gotten back with her ex that had left her which I had guessed had happened but wasn't totally sure. Ouch. Here's the story of the recycle:

About 5 months ago, she started contacting me again after being broken up for about 8 months-- it was mostly low key, but asking if I was seeing anyone. She was living with my replacement whom she had started seeing as we were breaking up-- they moved in together quickly.

Then about 4 months ago, we saw each other when I was visiting her town. She was flirtatious with me and told me "I guess I can love more than one person at a time." Nothing happened though as she was still living together with her girlfriend.

She texted me intermittently after that, and called me once to tell me she still loved me. I didn't hear from her for weeks after that though, and she apologized and said she'd been drinking and had started AA.

At some point, she slept with another ex while her girlfriend was visiting her family (it seems as if the girlfriend has a large and close family and that this is an issue for my BPD ex) and then her current girlfriend broke up with her and moved out. I guess she had also told her that she was still in love with me and still had feelings for her other ex (the one that she slept with) as well. It seems like they also struggled with her anger, and that there was some physical violence involved (shoving). The sleeping with her ex was the last straw for her girlfriend though-- "I can take a lot, but not that."

So then soon after she starts to text love-bomb me-- with all our good memories, new ideas for the future etc. Oh man it was a good couple weeks on text! But then I got there for a visit and all our old issues resurfaced fast and furious and it was a pretty rough 4 days. She said some mean things to me that have stuck in my head, though I think I did a good job of not reacting to them in the moment. Then she met her ex-girlfriend for dinner and boom—discard.

I was more or less okay with it in the moment—the time together had been so difficult and I had lots of other things to do—but it still haunts me now. I guess I still had hopes that we could make it, and that narrative that she still loved me even though she had gotten together with someone else was in my head. Now I have to let go of that narrative in kind of a tough way—that when she “had” me again, she realized that she didn’t love me in that same way anymore (in her words, that our rubber bands had stretched to far apart this time). I know there is another narrative—the one that recognizes that she struggles with a mental illness that puts her relationships on a pull-push cycle. Somehow I have both narratives at the same time.

[kc sunshine]

Hi gang,

So it's been one month since I fell back into the soup with my ex and my head/heart is still struggling to make sense of all the pieces. I'm still ruminating a lot. I went a couple of weeks without checking social media but then fell off the wagon and checked-- it looks like she's  gotten back with her ex that had left her which I had guessed had happened but wasn't totally sure. Ouch. Here's the story of the recycle:

About 5 months ago, she started contacting me again after being broken up for about 8 months-- it was mostly low key, but asking if I was seeing anyone. She was living with my replacement whom she had started seeing as we were breaking up-- they moved in together quickly.

Then about 4 months ago, we saw each other when I was visiting her town. She was flirtatious with me and told me "I guess I can love more than one person at a time." Nothing happened though as she was still living together with her girlfriend.

She texted me intermittently after that, and called me once to tell me she still loved me. I didn't hear from her for weeks after that though, and she apologized and said she'd been drinking and had started AA.

At some point, she slept with another ex while her girlfriend was visiting her family (it seems as if the girlfriend has a large and close family and that this is an issue for my BPD ex) and then her current girlfriend broke up with her and moved out. I guess she had also told her that she was still in love with me and still had feelings for her other ex (the one that she slept with) as well. It seems like they also struggled with her anger, and that there was some physical violence involved (shoving). The sleeping with her ex was the last straw for her girlfriend though-- "I can take a lot, but not that."

So then soon after she starts to text love-bomb me-- with all our good memories, new ideas for the future etc. Oh man it was a good couple weeks on text! But then I got there for a visit and all our old issues resurfaced fast and furious and it was a pretty rough 4 days. She said some mean things to me that have stuck in my head, though I think I did a good job of not reacting to them in the moment. Then she met her ex-girlfriend for dinner and boom—discard.

I was more or less okay with it in the moment—the time together had been so difficult and I had lots of other things to do—but it still haunts me now. I guess I still had hopes that we could make it, and that narrative that she still loved me even though she had gotten together with someone else was in my head. Now I have to let go of that narrative in kind of a tough way—that when she “had” me again, she realized that she didn’t love me in that same way anymore (in her words, that our rubber bands had stretched to far apart this time). I know there is another narrative—the one that recognizes that she struggles with a mental illness that puts her relationships on a pull-push cycle. Somehow I have both narratives at the same time.

[kc sunshine]

I guess my question for our boards from this experience-- is this how triangulation works? That when a relationship breaks down, a person turns to someone else to re-balance? In our case, it was actually more like a square, since there were three other people involved.

For me, the triangulation (squarification?) has another effect too which is a bit hard to describe-- something like the fact that they want to be with her as well despite all the ups and downs increases the pull towards her? Like she must be doing something right by all of us?

I'm describing here what only part of me thinks (the other part screams RUN! which I do)-- but it is a powerful half, so it leaves me ruminating.

[roberto516]

For me, the triangulation (squarification?) has another effect too which is a bit hard to describe-- something like the fact that they want to be with her as well despite all the ups and downs increases the pull towards her? Like she must be doing something right by all of us?

These are just my two cents. I never realized I was being triangulated with her ex-boyfriend former coworker of ours when we started dating. But he went crazy like me. He was trying to get her back, being very mean and angry, trying to win her back with gifts etc while she had already moved onto me. Why did he still want her back? I guess it was the addiction that had formed. Why did I want to be with her? She was idealizing me and I wanted to rescue her from his evil clutches. So it's easy to see why our ex' might be "doing right by us". In actuality I think it's more how we respond and how attached/idealized we are or what we miss.

[once removed]

I guess my question for our boards from this experience-- is this how triangulation works?

quite commonly, "triangulation" on this board is used to describe a "love triangle" (or square) situation that our pwBPD put us into. it isnt the way we want to see it if we want to move out of the triangle, or to the center of it. participants in a drama triangle are active and willing participants, each with a pay off.

triangles (drama triangles) are everywhere around us. your post is triangulation, and the responses are triangulation. there is good and bad triangulation.

Good Triangulation and Bad Triangulation
While triangulation is an important stabilizing factor, at times triangulation can be a seriously destabilizing factor.  "Bad triangulation" (i.e., pathological triangulation) can cause more turmoil in a relationship, polarizing communications and causing conflict to escalate.

According to Bowen, triangles have at least four possible outcomes, two of which are good and two of which are bad:

- a stable pair can become destabilized by a third person;

- a stable pair can also be destabilized by the removal of the third person (an example would be a child leaving home and no longer available for triangulation);

- an unstable pair can be stabilized by the addition of a third person (an example would be a conflictual marriage becoming more harmonious after the birth of a child); and

- an unstable pair being stabilized by the removal of a third person (an example would be conflict is reduced by the removal of a third person who takes sides).

Recognizing the difference between good triangulation and bad triangulation is critical to avoid repeatedly entering into destabilizing conditions in our relationships.


how does this apply to your relationship? there is a lot of passive language in your post that suggests you were just along for the ride and the outcome, with no say. theres not a lot of description of kc sunshines needs, expectations, or boundaries. is that a fair reading? im wondering if you felt powerless in this situation?

[kc sunshine]

That is a super helpful distinction to learn.

Yeah, and you are right that I felt like there wasn't much room for what I wanted and strangely that if/when I expressed my wants and desires, I'd get the opposite (so making myself an open target for rejection). It is complicated, though, by my own subterranean knowledge of this dynamic-- I did come on strongly during those four days... .was that sabotage on my part? Or is that way of thinking me trying to salvage a semblance of power in a dynamic is which I felt powerless? Maybe some of both-- which is back to my having trouble establishing a narrative about what happened that makes sense to me.

quite commonly, "triangulation" on this board is used to describe a "love triangle" (or square) situation that our pwBPD put us into. it isnt the way we want to see it if we want to move out of the triangle, or to the center of it. participants in a drama triangle are active and willing participants, each with a pay off.

triangles (drama triangles) are everywhere around us. your post is triangulation, and the responses are triangulation. there is good and bad triangulation.

Good Triangulation and Bad Triangulation
While triangulation is an important stabilizing factor, at times triangulation can be a seriously destabilizing factor.  "Bad triangulation" (i.e., pathological triangulation) can cause more turmoil in a relationship, polarizing communications and causing conflict to escalate.

According to Bowen, triangles have at least four possible outcomes, two of which are good and two of which are bad:

- a stable pair can become destabilized by a third person;

- a stable pair can also be destabilized by the removal of the third person (an example would be a child leaving home and no longer available for triangulation);

- an unstable pair can be stabilized by the addition of a third person (an example would be a conflictual marriage becoming more harmonious after the birth of a child); and

- an unstable pair being stabilized by the removal of a third person (an example would be conflict is reduced by the removal of a third person who takes sides).

Recognizing the difference between good triangulation and bad triangulation is critical to avoid repeatedly entering into destabilizing conditions in our relationships.


how does this apply to your relationship? there is a lot of passive language in your post that suggests you were just along for the ride and the outcome, with no say. theres not a lot of description of kc sunshines needs, expectations, or boundaries. is that a fair reading? im wondering if you felt powerless in this situation?

[once removed]

when we play a passive role, its putting ourselves in a victim position - not in a "woe is me" way, but it leaves us powerless, and means we have no control over our circumstances.

I did come on strongly during those four days... .was that sabotage on my part? Or is that way of thinking me trying to salvage a semblance of power in a dynamic is which I felt powerless? Maybe some of both-- which is back to my having trouble establishing a narrative about what happened that makes sense to me.

i think both approaches - coming on too strong, or not resigning ourselves to "whatever happens happens" are just two extremes. they can happen to all of us, the dating world is a tricky world to navigate.



ideally, we want to operate like the second image.


Assert rather than persecute. Instead of the actions of the persecutor,  who blames and punishes - give up trying to force or manipulate others to do what you want. Take on the new behaviors of "doing " and "asserting ". Ask for what you want. Say no for what you don't want. Give constructive feedback. Initiate negotiations. Take positive action.

Be vulnerable, but not a victim. "Victims " often feel overwhelmed, too defeated to solve their problems and emotions. They look to someone else to do it for them. Instead of the victim  role you need to be emotionally mature (vulnerable, not needy), accept the situation you are in and take responsibility to problem solve and function in a more healthy and happy way. Put real thought into what you want and how to get it, and take action to make it happen.

Be caring, but don't overstep. We do not want to let our fears, obligation and guilt to control us or allow us to be manipulated into taking care of another person when it really isn't healthy to do so. Instead of being the rescuer  and doing the thinking, taking the lead, doing more than our share, doing more than is asked of us -  simply be a supportive, empathetic listener and provide reflection, coaching, and assistance if the person asks and is taking the lead themselves. It is important to recognize the other person as an equal (not one-down) and give the other person the respect of letting them take care of themselves, solve their own problems, and deal with their feelings as they choose. Remember, the rescuer  has the most pivotal position on the drama triangle - you are in the strongest position, at least initially, to redirect the dynamic into healthy territory.

[kc sunshine]

Yes, I agree-- I didn't start out this way but I definitely ended up this way in the relationship! Ugh. I guess that's what people mean by "taking back your power." I wish I could have figured out a way to do it in the relationship-- it often felt like I was damned if I do, and damned if I don't, especially when other people were introduced to our dynamic. I will definitely work on these skills in future relationships, and I wish I could have applied them effectively in this one.

when we play a passive role, its putting ourselves in a victim position - not in a "woe is me" way, but it leaves us powerless, and means we have no control over our circumstances.

i think both approaches - coming on too strong, or not resigning ourselves to "whatever happens happens" are just two extremes. they can happen to all of us, the dating world is a tricky world to navigate.



ideally, we want to operate like the second image.


Assert rather than persecute. Instead of the actions of the persecutor,  who blames and punishes - give up trying to force or manipulate others to do what you want. Take on the new behaviors of "doing " and "asserting ". Ask for what you want. Say no for what you don't want. Give constructive feedback. Initiate negotiations. Take positive action.

Be vulnerable, but not a victim. "Victims " often feel overwhelmed, too defeated to solve their problems and emotions. They look to someone else to do it for them. Instead of the victim  role you need to be emotionally mature (vulnerable, not needy), accept the situation you are in and take responsibility to problem solve and function in a more healthy and happy way. Put real thought into what you want and how to get it, and take action to make it happen.

Be caring, but don't overstep. We do not want to let our fears, obligation and guilt to control us or allow us to be manipulated into taking care of another person when it really isn't healthy to do so. Instead of being the rescuer  and doing the thinking, taking the lead, doing more than our share, doing more than is asked of us -  simply be a supportive, empathetic listener and provide reflection, coaching, and assistance if the person asks and is taking the lead themselves. It is important to recognize the other person as an equal (not one-down) and give the other person the respect of letting them take care of themselves, solve their own problems, and deal with their feelings as they choose. Remember, the rescuer  has the most pivotal position on the drama triangle - you are in the strongest position, at least initially, to redirect the dynamic into healthy territory.

[once removed]

I guess that's what people mean by "taking back your power."

im not personally a big believer in that notion. when a relationship is over, so is any struggle for power. if we hope to rekindle a relationship, its probably not the best strategy or way to see it either. i think most of our relationships could be characterized as a struggle for power, and we see where that got us.

if "power" means being proactive about things we have control over, like our own boundaries, then 

[kc sunshine]

Yeah, that's what I meant by power!

I'll try to rewrite my story, with me at the center, as the protagonist, and see how that feels. The things in italics are from my original story.


So it's been one month since I fell back into the soup with my ex and my head/heart is still struggling to make sense of all the pieces. I'm still ruminating a lot. I went a couple of weeks without checking social media but then fell off the wagon and checked-- it looks like she's  gotten back with her ex that had left her which I had guessed had happened but wasn't totally sure. Ouch. Here's the story of the recycle:

"About 5 months ago, she started contacting me again after being broken up for about 8 months-- it was mostly low key, but asking if I was seeing anyone. She was living with my replacement whom she had started seeing as we were breaking up-- they moved in together quickly. "

During our breakup, I still missed her very much but had taken lots of steps to build a new life. I started a new job, got involved in activities, dated a nice person-- and had a more or less successful arc of a relationship with her (mutual interest, romance, and then a good break up when it became clear that we wanted different things from the relationship). I did not contact my exBPD gf very much (staying LC) but responded when she did contact me. I sometimes still missed her acutely. About 8 months into our break up, she started contacting me more frequently-- I was happy to hear from her but didn't respond very much, and tried not to dwell on our interactions.

"Then about 4 months ago, we saw each other when I was visiting her town. She was flirtatious with me and told me "I guess I can love more than one person at a time." Nothing happened though as she was still living together with her girlfriend."

I had moved but needed to go back to my old town (where my exBPD gf lived) to pack up my office. I met her and her gf for dinner and we had a nice time though I was very nervous for it. After that dinner she wanted to meet again and we had a really nice time. I was trying not to get my hopes up too much because she was still living with her gf. I got my office all packed up and saw lots of friends as well. In terms of my exBPD gf I had a feeling that "all's well that ends well" and that it was great that we could still really like each other even if we couldn't be together.

"She texted me intermittently after that, and called me once to tell me she still loved me. I didn't hear from her for weeks after that though, and she apologized and said she'd been drinking and had started AA."

When my ex started calling me more, I felt both anxiety and hope. When she asked if I was still interested, I told her I was but that I was worried that I was setting myself up for rejection. When she didn't contact me for weeks after, I was hurt and wished it could have been different.

"At some point, she slept with another ex while her girlfriend was visiting her family (it seems as if the girlfriend has a large and close family and that this is an issue for my BPD ex) and then her current girlfriend broke up with her and moved out. I guess she had also told her that she was still in love with me and still had feelings for her other ex (the one that she slept with) as well. It seems like they also struggled with her anger, and that there was some physical violence involved (shoving). The sleeping with her ex was the last straw for her girlfriend though-- "I can take a lot, but not that."

"So then soon after she starts to text love-bomb me-- with all our good memories, new ideas for the future etc. Oh man it was a good couple weeks on text! But then I got there for a visit and all our old issues resurfaced fast and furious and it was a pretty rough 4 days. She said some mean things to me that have stuck in my head, though I think I did a good job of not reacting to them in the moment. Then she met her ex-girlfriend for dinner and boom—discard."

I'd say we had about a month of a recycle if I include the texts, which makes sense in terms of the shortening recycle timeline. Our first relationship lasted 9 months, our second major try lasted six months, our third three months, and then this, what I think will be our last, lasted about 3 weeks. It was intense and I learned a lot from it. I really appreciated some parts of our times together-- we had one really fun night laughing, and the physical reconnection, though brief and difficult in the aftermaths (the emotional push after the physical pull) was good. After I didn't hear from her and realized I was being discarded (I had a sense that was going to happen because of the things she was telling me while we were together), I spent the time in our town seeing old friends and getting lots of stuff done. I don't regret it even though I wish it could have turned out differently. After I left she asked if I was mad about how things turned out this time and I said no, that I think it is the right thing for the both of us. I mostly feel this way but sometimes I really do with things could have been different and we could have made it.

"I was more or less okay with it in the moment—the time together had been so difficult and I had lots of other things to do—but it still haunts me now. I guess I still had hopes that we could make it, and that narrative that she still loved me even though she had gotten together with someone else was in my head. Now I have to let go of that narrative in kind of a tough way—that when she “had” me again, she realized that she didn’t love me in that same way anymore (in her words, that our rubber bands had stretched to far apart this time). I know there is another narrative—the one that recognizes that she struggles with a mental illness that puts her relationships on a pull-push cycle. Somehow I have both narratives at the same time."

im not personally a big believer in that notion. when a relationship is over, so is any struggle for power. if we hope to rekindle a relationship, its probably not the best strategy or way to see it either. i think most of our relationships could be characterized as a struggle for power, and we see where that got us.

if "power" means being proactive about things we have control over, like our own boundaries, then