Would like some input on response to Sister-In-Law text

[BeagleGirl]

My procrastination has bitten me in the rear again.

SIL (BPDh's sister) texted me last week to let me know that she had heard about the separation and asking how I was doing.  Since this is the first direct contact she has made with me in about 2 years (never have had a regular communication with her) I kind of suspected an ambush and had framed a "diffusion" response... .that I never got around to sending.  My text would have been something like "I'm doing as well as can be expected.  I am planning to be in (parent's and inlaw's home town) with the kids for Christmas.  If you are going to be there during the same time we should make plans."

So tonight she sends a long text:

"{Nickname she gave me that I've never really liked}, I know this must be a very difficult situation and it's not my place to talk you out of it {the separation}.  But what I want you to know is that I may not have always been the nicest persion to you, but you are always going to be family in my eyes.  Family always comes first.  In that vein, I know that you are coming to {parent's and in-law's home town} and my parents are really worried that they may never see their grandchildren again.  My dad has been going through hell with his legs and has had 2 surgeries already and likely 3 more to go.  Grandpa is most likely on his last year now.  He just had a stroke and is sort of half there these days.  It would mean a lot if you would go and visit them with the boys.  Or at least make sure the boys visit them.  It would also be good for {my son's names} to spend some more time with them.  I know we have our differences and it's not always comfortable at their house, but they love those boys so much and at the end of the day, they are family, and they should know their grandparents."

A little background - My MIL has been diagnosed bipolar and I now suspect BPD.  The first words I ever heard her speak were to my SIL.  She screamed at her "I hate you and if I had a gun I would shoot you".  That was "normal" in their house.  The verbal abuse, hypochondria, and lack of responsibility made me feel very unsafe leaving my children alone with my MIL and my severe cat allergies made it very difficult for me to be in their home for long periods of time. 

As my kids got old enough to know not to take any medicine that grandma offered them (she regularly offered her prescription medication for perceived illnesses she saw in my kids) and to be safe unsupervised, I was more open to having them visit alone, but didn't see much point as she often just stayed in her room sleeping or watching TV while they were there.  So visits tended to be limited to when my FIL was home from work.  Even those visits were awkward, since they don't seem to know how to interact with my kids and generally ended up just watching TV while I entertained the boys (until they had their phones to entertain themselves).  They have never sent a birthday card and I don't remember them ever even calling on the boys' birthdays to wish them a happy birthday, much less calling to talk to them on any other day.  While I don't doubt that they love their grandsons, they have placed the responsibility for maintaining a relationship with their grandkids on BPDh and me (which generally means me). 

So here is what I'm thinking of responding with:

"I am sorry that you and your parents think that I would not encourage my boys to spend time with your family.  Our plans are not firm yet, but BPDh and I had already discussed Christmas Eve with your family and Christmas Day with mine.  I will be happy to let you and your parents know when we will be in town and arrange for time with the boys.  If you and your parents don't have cell phone numbers for the boys, I would also be happy to provide those so that they can call and keep in touch with them directly."

Thoughts?  Questions?

BeagleGirl

[takingandsending]

Hey Beaglegirl.

It's a good response. Drop the first sentence as that will serve no good. You could be quite honest and say Sorry. I meant to email you last week. It's true and disarms hostility.

I don't recall how old your children are, but unsupervised visits there don't sound at all safe or pleasant. Yikes! I gave up on feeling obligated to e pose my S11 and S6 to my xMIL. She had no skills or interest in relating to the boys. Same with xFIL -  no cards, letters or calls. When my sons ask about him which is very rare, I say that he's never made an effort to be in their lives so I make no extra effort to have them be in his life. Kids I think actually get that and appreciate their parents for protecting them. So, how are you feeling on the obligation front because your SIL just FOGged things up pretty well?

[formflier]

BG,

I'm seeing some overthinking... .and some over involvement.


So... .I'm getting out my hammer... .

https://youtu.be/qfqb1EQHI1k

Hope that lightens the mood some

It appears you want to have a "surfacey" relationship with the SIL.  Correct?

While we "know" because of FOO dynamics that she is "really" sending a message that the parents are likely afraid to send "directly"... .I think you should keep it a surface level thing and thank her for her kindness of thinking of you.

Skip discussing FOO stuff.  Skip discussing their feelings. 

Have you heard about their health situations and grandpas last year?  That likely should be addressed, although it would be different if this is the first you have heard of it.

Try this on for size... .

"I appreciate your kind words.  It means a lot to me that you thought of me in this difficult time.  I've been praying for the health issues you updated me on."

I think that would be fine place to stop. 

It's not your place to assure them of visits.  The "fighter" in my says you should add something about them calling your boys... .but that would seem to triangulate a SIL with her parents and you.

If they haven't been calling up until now... .that's a sideshow that is unlikely to be fixed.  It is what it is... .

Let them think... .what they think.

Let them fear... .what they fear... .

Thoughts?

FF

[formflier]

 
BG,

I'm seeing some overthinking... .and some over involvement.


So... .I'm getting out my hammer... .

https://youtu.be/qfqb1EQHI1k

Hope that lightens the mood some

It appears you want to have a "surfacey" relationship with the SIL.  Correct?

While we "know" because of FOO dynamics that she is "really" sending a message that the parents are likely afraid to send "directly"... .I think you should keep it a surface level thing and thank her for her kindness of thinking of you.

Skip discussing FOO stuff.  Skip discussing their feelings.  

Have you heard about their health situations and grandpas last year?  That likely should be addressed, although it would be different if this is the first you have heard of it.

Try this on for size... .

"I appreciate your kind words.  It means a lot to me that you thought of me in this difficult time.  I've been praying for the health issues you updated me on."

I think that would be fine place to stop.  

It's not your place to assure them of visits.  The "fighter" in my says you should add something about them calling your boys... .but that would seem to triangulate a SIL with her parents and you.

If they haven't been calling up until now... .that's a sideshow that is unlikely to be fixed.  It is what it is... .

Let them think... .what they think.

Let them fear... .what they fear... .

Thoughts?

FF

Oh... .I would veto saying sorry or apologizing for a late response.  That is a feeling you are putting on yourself.  It's "obligation" talking to you.  

I don't think there is anything "wrong" with apologizing... .but if muddles the message and adds more words.  Keep it simple... .
 

[formflier]

A quick note on "editing" messages and thoughts.

Keep trying to make it shorter... .but have the same thought.  Usually that results in a more powerful... focused... .statement.

I think you should change my last sentence to.

"I've been praying for healing in our family."  (see how that addresses a number of issues... .)

FF

[Panda39]

I agree with the others, that entire text was FOG thick London FOG trying to manipulate you into doing what she/family want you to do.

If this had been a healthy family member or approach it would have been... .hey, I hear your coming to town at Christmas with the kids we'd love to see them.

But instead you get... .I haven't been nice to you but you're family (I don't like you but you are family when you comply with what I want... .bullying)... .my parents are worried they'll never see their grandkids again (so you better bring them over or you're a horrible person... .Obligation/Guilt)... .Dad is sick/Grandpa's gonna die (so you better bring the kids over because it's the last time they could see them... .Fear/Obligation)... .the end of the day we are family (dishing up more Obligation).

Remember BIFF - Brief, Informational, Firm, Friendly... .Thank you for your text you are correct the kids and I do plan on being in town for Christmas, but with everything that is going on we have no firm plans yet for our visit. (if you plan on having your kids see dad's family) you could add, I will let you know what our plans are as we get closer to Christmas.

Based on what you say about this family I would limit your kids time with them... .I don't know your whole story but is this about seeing the kids or is it about control?

Panda39

[takingandsending]

Panda expressed a bit better how I was seeing SIL's letter. Heaps of FOG, which really makes it understandable why H is BPD or has traits. Sadly, also reminded me a bit of an over the top version of my FOO. SIL is definitely put in a spot, but you didn't put her there. And her communication is all about obligation and guilt - there's no way to turn that into healthy unless you have strong boundaries. What is you want for your kids? That will likely help guide you through these landmines.

[formflier]

Said another way:  Worry more about the type of relationship YOU want with your sister in law... .and communicate accordingly.

She is not involved in decisions about your kids or your marriage... .unless you "allow" or "accept" that role from her. 

She can have an "opinion" about this all day long... .nothing you can do about that... .but her vote won't count.  Two votes that count... .yours and your hubby's. 

SIL doesn't get to "see" the ballots between you and your hubby... .unless you or he allows it.  You con't control him... .but you do control you... .so... .

Hows that for an over-explanation?   

FF

[BeagleGirl]

After ruminating on it I definitely saw the triangulation more clearly.  I have been thinking all day that I need to exercise my "don't give a flip what they think of me" muscle.

Here's how I responded to her:

"You are correct that I'm planning to be in {family's home town} with the boys around Christmas.  Once plans are firmed up {BPDh} or I will let you know."

Besides the triangulation, a few other things I think have dawned on me are:

-It's not my responsibility to make sure my in-laws get "sufficient" time with my kids.  That responsibility lies with BPDh. 
-It's not SIL's role to make sure my in-laws get "sufficient" time with my kids, at least not where I'm concerned.  If she wants to "influence" then she should be focusing on influencing BPDh.
-SIL has put me in a no-win situation.  At best, I can be viewed as complying with her request.  Any good outcome is ascribed to her. 
-I DON'T have to play the no-win game. 
-The lack of responsibility that I see in BPDh is rampant in his family, as is the view of me as the person who needs to take on any responsibility they shirk, yet (as previously stated) I will not receive any "credit" for taking on that responsibility.

    One piece that I didn't mention is that the plan prior to separation was to spend this Christmas in the town where both FOOs live.  When my parents were out here last month I affirmed (with BPDh present) that those were still the plans. Then a couple weeks ago BPDh decided that he doesn't think he will "be able to" make the trip out there (2000 miles).  I reminded him that I was giving him the $2400 I have been saving for the trip and taking care of the travel expenses for myself and the boys.  He said he still didn't know if he would be going but gave no further reason.  I feel like this is another "no-win" situation.

    I guess this is as good a time as any to review the triangulation lessons and figure out how to not allow myself to be assigned the "villain" role, at least not in my own mind.  That's more of a challenge than it sounds like.  It's a huge emotional strain on me when I feel like someone thinks poorly of me.  I want to prove them wrong so that I'm not left wondering if they are right.  So that's where the "I don't give a flip what they think of me" muscle comes in. 

BG

 

[Notwendy]

BG- I support your decision to stand firm in your boundaries and wish to protect your children from a situation that isn't good for them.

The message sent seemed familiar to me in context of my own FOO ( BPD mother).  Families where there is ( at least one) disordered person tend to also have certain family patterns. For me, they tend to operate on the drama triangle. The message looks full of FOG, SIL is taking on rescue role. Her parents, grandpa- presented as victims of your decision.

When any person steps out of the family dynamics, it makes the "system" unstable and members can make efforts to get things back to a familiar pattern. You have made a change ( for you- a decision you know is best for you) and they are not comfortable with it. If you consider the triangle- and people tend to see their own discomfort as something to blame on someone else- then you can see how they could perceive you as being the one who did this. This e mail puts you in persecutor position ( "they won't see their grandchildren, how could you?"

I experienced similar dynamics when I began to have boundaries with my BPD mother. Before that, I was also part of the family dysfunction- people pleasing, co-dependent, was expected to obey her. When I decided to change this- I was the "villain". It really did hurt my feelings when her FOO thought poorly of me- and I am pretty sure she painted me black to them. Yet, I had to also realize that they didn't know my side of things, and were invested in their own family dynamics.

It's a huge emotional strain on me when I feel like someone thinks poorly of me.  I want to prove them wrong so that I'm not left wondering if they are right. 



I get this BG and IMHO, this is something you can give up as it is your feeling- and this family has their own way of thinking about things. What can happen after the family tries to get the person who changed things to help them feel better- is if the person does not do what they want, they can cast that person out.  For me, I was pretty much temporarily disowned when I didn't comply. Yes, that was very hurtful- I cried a lot. I was very puzzled that they thought I was the terrible one while maintaining that my BPD mother was perfectly fine. I wanted to prove them wrong- make them see that I was a good person, a good mother, but I realized that I can not control how any other person thinks about me.

What is important is what I think about me     What they think about me doesn't make it true. Your in laws will think what they want to think. Your responsibility is not to their thinking but to you and your children- and to do what is best for you and them.

[formflier]

Solid work. 

A thought for the future.  When you want to remind BPDh ... .or anyone... .of something, do you think you can use questions instead of statements?

Very open ended.

" Oh my... .how have things changed?"


Then slowly get more specific as the conversation progresses.

FF

[flourdust]

One of the greatest things about getting out of the FOG and getting away from BPD entanglement is that you don't need to feel obligated to engage with nasty people. Here's how I would have BIFFed this... .

"But what I want you to know is that I may not have always been the nicest persion to you... ."

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[Panda39]

One of the greatest things about getting out of the FOG and getting away from BPD entanglement is that you don't need to feel obligated to engage with nasty people. Here's how I would have BIFFed this... .

"But what I want you to know is that I may not have always been the nicest persion to you... ."

<delete>

   

Love that!  You really got that "Brief" part down