Question for SIBLINGS

[Randi Kreger]

Hi sibs:

The need for suport and education for siblings just might be the number one issue that is vastly overlooked. Part of the problem is that if you're not a sibling, you really don't know what the issues are. I'm putting together a list with many examples.

It seems to me that there are two categories to look at: people under 18 living with a sibling, and people over 18 who are confronting adult issues. I am trying to make a list of these issues and come up with examples.

Here is what I know so far.

Some are for people under 18  (*
Some are people over 18 (++)
Some things are duplicated with both groups in different ways (noted by #)


-Bullying behavior such as calling names **

-loss of privcacy, eg sibling going through sibling's things **

-having to explain the sibling to other kids **

-Parents spending lots of money on treatment, leaving little left for other things#

-Having a borderline mom complicating the relationship#

-Having their feelings ignored#

-Needing to set difficult boundaries and worrying about sibling's angry or sad response

-competition for parent's attention##

-having special days ruined such as birthdays or graduations because the PWBPD steals the show #

-feeling like they have to include the sibling in events they don't want to#

-Worrying about caring for sibling when parents die or are disabled++

-Having the sibling ask for money++

-Having the sibling constantly in crisis and needing to pull them off the floor++

-Worrying about the sibling's effect on the parents++

Did I choose the right age groups?

Could you please give your ideas and give examples in your life either as a kid or adult?

I may have more.

 

[Phoenix09]

I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for but I believe both M and Sis are UBPD.  I'm sure I have some tendencies as well but I am most definitely the peacemaker.  One of my primary challenges is being the confident when things are not good between them and then being the black sheep when they go back to being best friends.  If I try to remove myself from the equation - they will both target in on me.  I feel so stuck in the middle at times.

Another challenge with my S is that she is the only other person that saw the same stuff I did growing up.  She has the same memories and can tell me that I didn't imagine the horror we lived through.  And there are days that it is the most wonderful thing in the world.  She can turn those exact same things back against me at times and find ways to blame me the same way my M did.  It's such a double-edged sword.

[Randi Kreger]

More issues:

• feeling guilty and wondering if they did something to cause their sibling to be ill. • 
* fear of bringing their friends home. • fearing for their own safety and the safety of their parents. • 
* feeling enormous pressure to be good to make up to Mom and Dad for the problems caused by the borderline sibling. • * problems with self-esteem. “I didn’t have much self-esteem until I went away to college and got away from her,” Mary says about her sister. “At college I got some positive attention, and I really used that to build a sense of self-esteem.” • 
being influenced by the friends, sometimes from a rough crowd, of the borderline child.

I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for but I believe both M and Sis are UBPD.  I'm sure I have some tendencies as well but I am most definitely the peacemaker.  One of my primary challenges is being the confident when things are not good between them and then being the black sheep when they go back to being best friends.  If I try to remove myself from the equation - they will both target in on me.  I feel so stuck in the middle at times.

Another challenge with my S is that she is the only other person that saw the same stuff I did growing up.  She has the same memories and can tell me that I didn't imagine the horror we lived through.  And there are days that it is the most wonderful thing in the world.  She can turn those exact same things back against me at times and find ways to blame me the same way my M did.  It's such a double-edged sword.

[Pina colada]

I think many of us bear guilt when we go NC with our disordered sibling and when we make the tough choices that protect us but may ultimately hurt our sibling. I also was not prepared for my sister's smear campaign and the lengths to which she will go to get revenge.  In the case of my sister, as adults she blames me because our mom did not leave her anything when she passed.  In truth, my sister was mean and horribly abusive to our mom but my sister makes herself to be the victim.  Now, with our mom gone, she has lashed out all her poison at me.  Again, no one is prepared to deal with this stuff from a sibling or family member... .

[Living Life]

The post by Pina colada is a version of my own story. It is shocking to me, at age 71, I have elected NC with my brother, with whom I previously had a good, normal relationship. My BPD mother has painted me as hateful, spiteful, etc, since I finally made a firm boundary with her 10 years ago. My father died, then 6 years ago she changed the entire estate, leaving me totally out, only verbally leaving me 1/2 of the household things; my brother and his wife knew about it at the time, but didn't want to tell me until shortly before she died in January. It is now my fault that I didn't 'fix this' with her before she died (at 97). He has chosen to believe my mother's distorted stories and tall tales and refuses to believe my rebuttals. In one of his emails he told me to just check with his daughter if I didn't believe my mother had said specific negative things about me. I was so hurt by the accusations, I did, and of course, the daughter knows nothing about it. She was the closest to my mother and heard everything. The general nature of my mother's rants I already knew about, but not many of the more hurtful things he relayed. He proceeded to blaming and horrific name calling in 2 emails. My specific rebuttal to the first email's accusations was totally vilified. I realized I really didn't like these people. He has taken on the role of BPD mother. I had to deal with her, but I don't have to deal with him. I ruminated over it about 3 weeks, then sent him a short 'divorce' email, which he replied to with more vitriol.  The guilt has been overwhelming at times, along with the sadness of losing the relationship. I am surprised that at 73 he has the emotional maturity of an 8 year old; his wife has apparently run all the interference for him (for 42 years) so he doesn't have to deal with anything that will upset him. I feel that I was doomed to fail from the time I was told about the estate.

I was present for my mother's passing, then I stayed and helped clean out the house to get ready for an estate sale. His wife had a melt down, apparently about my going through my mother's things. I was subsequently told my mother had told her she didn't want me going through her things, because I would just throw them out. She had lovely things that she treasured; however, in my view, it was only 'stuff' that would make her look important and worthy to the world and disguise her lack of self-esteem. My brother chose to cater to his wife's emotional needs; it was not her mother or her estate, yet she was making the decisions. I later told him that if he had told me at the beginning that my mother didn't want me going through her things, I would have just left and he could have handled all it by himself, but he seemed to appreciate the huge amount of work my husband and I did sorting things out.

He got caught by his wife on one side, and me on the other; a bad position. He needs his wife far more than me, so I became the bad guy. As I told him in my 'divorce' email, that I am not the person he has made me out to be. Fortunately, I have a strong sense of my own self worth, a long term marriage, a successful career (now retired), good friends, and close relationships with others in the family. I don't need this. So, regrettably, I told him that since he has such a low opinion of me, I have little hope or desire for a future relationship. I doubt he will take any responsibility for how he handled the situation; all I ask of him is that we all be civil when we eventually see each other at a family function.

I just found "Walking on Eggshells" about a month ago; it explained the whole family dynamic and why I am the continual black sheep. I already knew not to challenge my mother's beliefs, it would just enrage her more; I was shocked that my brother has picked up many of her the BPD characteristics; you can't have a logical adult conversation about emotional issues. The last 7 months have been pretty awful; I had wrongfully assumed that once my mother died, that crazy behavior would stop and we could all be happy together. I have been very sad, and cried way too many tears. I am a good responsible person, I don't need this. So as difficult as it was, 'divorcing' my brother has brought me some peace and sanity.

[Lilacs]

- Having to put your life on hold for your sibling (always needing help).
- making sure your success doesn't make your sibling feel bad
- sibling triangulating parents, fear of losing your parents d/t sibling stating he/she is being victimized by you.
- fear your sibling will triangulate (smear campaign)  your spouse and grown kids.
- fear for your siblings kids and how they are being raised
- loss over the death of a relationship.

I'm sure there are more.
PS. The wto-siblings listserve was amazing. I was on it starting 2012 or so, I really miss it. So much more common and easier to discuss. My two cents.

[beatup]

The lies, false accusations & blame games have been hard for me . There is no good way to deal with that.
The loss of our Mom turned my uBPD sis into a monster and then the loss of our Dad sent her off the deep end & that resulted in NC... .and acute distress & grieving the loss of both my Dad & my sis.

[mavis]

-Bullying behavior such as calling names  -- she used to call me fatty

-loss of privcacy, eg sibling going through sibling's things -- She had no boundaries.  She would write notes to my friends telling them not to be friends with me.

-Parents spending lots of money on treatment, leaving little left for other things -- She saw psychiatrists even before puberty.  And this was in the 60s.  My parents didn't know what to do to try to help her.

-Needing to set difficult boundaries and worrying about sibling's angry or sad response -- She would tantrum when she didn't get her way.

Has completely different recall of our childhood -- and we were very close in age. I once told her, when we were still talking -- that I was glad we were talking again because nobody else shared the memories of our childhood (we lived abroad a couple times) and she immediately said "yes, wasn't it (our childhood) awful.  Um, no, I just wanted to talk about how advernturous and exciting it had been.

-having special days ruined such as birthdays or graduations because the PWBPD steals the show -- They always had to give her a gift on my birthday because she would tantrum if they didn't.

-Worrying about caring for sibling when parents die or are disabled -- My sister held it together until my parents died, then she kind of lost it.  Multiple marriages, joined a cult for a while.

-Having the sibling ask for money -- She always comes out of her divorces with a little extra, so that is not an issue.

-Having the sibling constantly in crisis and needing to pull them off the floor -- Always drama going on.

-Worrying about the sibling's effect on the parents -- that's kind of funny, because she did call them "the parents"

Could you please give your ideas and give examples in your life.  When my parents died, I went back to the small town I was from to attend the funerals and, while there, encountered many stony-faced and borerline rude people who I had previously been on casual talking basis with.  My sister told me I was imagining things, but it turns out she had been making me out to be a horrible person, telling lies about me.  A total gaslighting.

Growing up with her, I did pick up some fleas which I did manage -- for the most part -- to get rid of with some FOO counseling.  She directed the household with her behavior, lies and general crazy-making.  She was like a vortex sucking up normalcy and replacing it with a ___storm.  The whole process has made me, as an adult, hypersensitive to cluster B people and hypervigilant around people I don't know.

 As an adult, she has decided that *I* am toxic and sent me a cease and desist letter for sending her Christmas cards and birthday cards (2 cards a year) because she thought that was harassment

[Sunfl0wer]

My sis has BPD, as did my mom.
Sure, all those issues were there, not sure exactly what you want to know about them.

However, many of those items seem like typical kid stuff... .bullying, etc.

Imo, what I delt with was not "typical" stuff going on in other homes.

If mom was dysregulating, sis would track me down, (use her BPD dynamics, and triangulate) offer me up for a beating.  On the other hand, roles reversed, I had compassion and no desire to team with that woman, I always felt badly for anyone getting beat.

Then if sis and I fought, mom would typically take my side and tell me to beat her! Which I never did, not my thing, also thought it gross a parent would cheer me to fight a sis even if they felt she was in the wrong... .certainly not teaching us fricken life skills here.

With a mom with BPD, everyone treated her like the queen matriarch, there was no therapy as an accepted thing for her day, folks just didn't do that... . so she was never treated and diagnosed... .my sis tried therapy but that quickly got cancelled when sis therapist recommended some things for mom to try, implying accountability or need for cooperation.

The issue was not my sis, not even my mom exactly... .well, she certainly was a huge problem.  Main issue imo is that the dynamics that allowed that Queen BPD mom her throne were at play always and all other family members intertwined with the delusional realities she perpetuated and no one wanting to tell the emperor that he had no clothes on... .so the whole family systems thing was way off... .imo, the dynamic way huger than any individual, and how the family either confronts that person or goes along with it all... .it was abusive and disorienting to be raised by folks who created a whole twisted reality to maintain their roles and beliefs like some mini sub culture.  

So by the time I did therapy at 17, I entered feeling sub human cause I was raised in a culture that supported that "mom's" delusions, (above any emotional needs I may have)  so knowing which way was up, needed to be formally taught to me.  Learning that folks care about others in a genuine way actually came many years later... .and still surprises me honestly.

The differing realities I had to keep and hold in my mind helped give me OSDD and confused the heck out of me to be flooded with stuff that made no sense... .caused me not to trust the world outside, made me never tell folks at school what was happening cause I trusted no one... . so not knowing if her reality was realest or not and maybe she really was like a Queen over all, or at least over me, (cause as a kid, you got no perception of their being a "world" bigger than what your experiences are... .so no idea that mom had less power if outted) made me fear opening my mouth, cause she threatened me over that too, so I assumed she would find out... .no way for me to know different.  The realest thing to me growing up... .were her threats, meaness and such... .so in my head... .that was the force that ruled many of my thoughts and thinking.

Just recently tried to watch the Stanford Prison experiments... .
Saw the look on the prisoners faces when interviewed by someone with warden near or such, them fearing what would happen to aspire to which reality in their head... . it was very much like this growing up.  (Admit, I walked out on the movie, made it up to the rape scene, was too horrific for my soul to bear.)

Nothing like "typical bullying" or like me being upset over sis getting more than me... .cause her throwing a tantrum as an adult or such.  Was more like the Standford Prison Experiments and losing my grip on what is what.  Cannot describe the affect any better than to say I got OSDD cause my brain could not know which way to wire itself, and I also needed ways to escape from this reality I was living.

Wish folks got the affect on the brain of exposure to such insanity, humiliation, folks treating you not like a person and the impact it has on the brain ... .loss of consciousness, memory issues, issues with executive functioning, etc.  IMO, this is where my lasting damage is.

Never bothered me so much that she always got more... .
I really just longed to be treated more human, like I mattered, like I was valued, wanted and special.

The problem I see is many of these kids, no matter their level of abuse, get treated as a tool, not a person.  Even if mom doesn't have BPD and just a sibling does, they may end up being valued for their role in the dynamic as being a "stronger" one and loose their value as being people with their own emotional wants and needs.

[Avriel]

My unBPD sister tended to feel creepy to me when she was trying to be cute. That hasn't changed. She tends to prefer provocative clothing and can behave in an uncomfortably provocative manner at times. This behavior turned her into our (NPD/HPD?) dad's favorite. I didn't want to be his favorite because I don't respect him; but he will never tell her to stop if she is verbally abusing someone in his presence.

People sometimes assumed she was a good kid because they knew me growing up, and I came off that way. Once she was asked to fill in for a sick junior counselor by a camp director who knew me, but not her issues. I had to explain to him later that she had serious problems, because I thought he should know what he was dealing with. That was awkward. Fortunately she never found out.

She hates it when I try to have serious conversations with other family members that don't include her. She eavesdrops on my mom and me, and within the last week she tried to interrupt a conversion with provocative behavior, because she thought I was talking about my job too much. She complains that I don't have real emotions, but if I try to talk about something emotional, she often resents it.

She will talk about what she assumes my future will be like, and about her plans for my imaginary wedding (I'm not even dating). I see those topics very personal and hate that she talks so freely about them. I dread the comments she would make if I did start dating--it would be humiliating silliness, or nasty criticisms.

I have to play therapist for other family members. She tries to control our mom. She outright hates one brother and always has. The younger brothers struggle to understand her problems. I'm afraid to mention BPD by name to my brothers for fear that, in their immaturity, they might blurt it out in an argument.

And  course, she always very jealous.

[Benjamin219]

I have a BPD mother whom we just put in a nursing home and a PBD sister, I had a nonBPD father that passed away recently. I have been NC with my sister for decades. I have always been the whipping boy for my mother to project her own negative personality traits on.

As a child my sister would take the food off my plate at the dinner table if she wanted it ( I am 7 years older than her) and nothing was every done about it, in fact one time I hit her hand for doing it and I was punished.

Our parents POAs were set-up as joint, meaning they required BOTH our signatures on everything. She initially tried to have them changed without my knowing, but my father refused. She controls my mother.
As a result of my mother's BPD (she has both the queen and witch personalities) my sister and I live many hours from our mother. My sister has been telling lies to our old neighbours and extended family lies about me.

Perhaps the most upsetting trait of having a BPD sister is that she has continued to put me in the "whipping boy" position in our family. Additionally, she tries to do the same to my children, so they are as NC with her as possible.

My mother is high functioning and my sister is a combination type.

[junebug1929]

My sister's BPD became more pronounced when she entered her late 40s, but a lot of the childhood issues you listed still resonate - there was always some drama going on in my sister's life that overshadowed the special events in my childhood.

Today, my sister is in her 50s and in full blown BPD with addiction, refusing serious treatment for both conditions. I worry that she'll start to involve herself in our aging mother's care (we're both POA - my mom couldn't bring herself to cut off my sister's POA because it would hurt her feelings). Money is always a concern (she frequently comes asking to borrow large sums of money from me). Right now, she's painted me black and I worry about smear campaigns, especially now that social media provides such a good platform for that. Electronic communications also make constant harassment via text and email an easy option.

I worry a lot about what will happen after our parents die - will she go insane in with grief and lose all control? Will she attempt to break into my home and steal the things my mom has already given me? Will she make a huge scene, hiring lawyers and screaming for money? Will I have to look after her? Or will she already be gone, dead by her own hand or of her addiction? There don't seem to be a lot of pleasant options unless she finally embraces treatment.

I would love more resources for siblings - very happy to hear you are diving into this.

[MiloSpiral]

Hi sibs:

The need for suport and education for siblings just might be the number one issue that is vastly overlooked. Part of the problem is that if you're not a sibling, you really don't know what the issues are. I'm putting together a list with many examples.
 

Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou I have been WAITING for this. Almost all resources on here under the Parents and Siblings tab have to do with parents. Being siblings is a VERY different dynamic.

Suggestion: With older BPD siblings towards younger siblings, using a significant age gap to either foster a caretaker/mentor relationship, using it to demonstrate the power they have over the younger sibling, or alternating between the two when it suits them.# My uBPD sister is seven years older than me, and I'm in my early twenties, so for the past couple of years we've been going through a power struggle in which I am finally realizing the things she's doing to manipulate and control me (intentionally or unintentionally) and putting up boundaries. She takes that as rejection, not being a good sister, etc. (I should also mention that I'm one of her FPs, and have been all my life.)

-Bullying behavior such as calling names **
How about ridiculing tones when you use a word they don’t like to describe how their behavior makes you feel?
 
-loss of privacy, eg sibling going through sibling's things **
I'd categorize this as an adult thing as well. I've moved out of my house, but because I'm young, a lot of my stuff is still at my parents' house, where my sister also lives. My sister has almost no personal boundaries when it comes to other people's things. It's not a snooping behavior, more just an impulsive, "I-want-it-so-I-take-it" behavior. She'll do it without asking and then be perplexed when I get annoyed, saying "Well, I knew you wouldn't mind." The stuff also often gets lost or damaged, and she gets hurt and angry when you use that as a reason for not loaning her something on the few occasions she does ask.

-having to explain the sibling to other kids **
I'd say this is something adults deal with as well, in more subtle ways. I always get uncomfortable whenever someone asks me how many siblings I have and what each of them does. The fact that my adult sister still lives at home and is unemployed leads to more questions, which just makes the whole thing worse. I tend to say "she's an independent contractor," which has been true in the past. It's partially from my own embarrassment and partially because I don't want to air her dirty laundry out to the rest of the world. Any potential answer feels wrong--not mentioning my sister, mentioning my sister and telling too much of the truth, or telling half truths about her. Not to mention the shame I feel at being embarrassed by my sister, since her behavior is so clearly driven by mental illness.

-Parents spending lots of money on treatment, leaving little left for other things#
My parents are very good with money, so luckily my sister's illness has not thrown them into any kind of financial ruin. However, it's taken my parents a long time to finally set boundaries with my sister on how they are willing to support her financially. For a long time they were paying for different treatments because she was complaining of physical symptoms that never seemed to get better, but the expenses still piled up. Now that the complaints have subsided and we are pretty certain those symptoms were physical manifestations of psychological issues, my parents are more wary. Still, she continues to live at home, has been granted multiple extensions to move-out deadlines (extensions that have now added up into years), and it has caused some strain between myself and my parents. I have asked them for financial assistance on positive things like apartment co-signatures, only to be told that they can't carry two people (meaning myself and my sister). This has left me feeling very bitter and alone, because as much as I intellectually understand their position, a part of me still feels that as the younger sibling still trying to put down roots, I'm the one that not only needs help, but will be responsible in paying back that assistance. And then I feel guilty for feeling that way, because I know that my sister is sick and that my parents are learning how to deal with her illness.

It should be noted that after having a candid conversation with my parents about this, we were able to see each other's perspective and work out a plan for me to get the financial assistance I needed. However, through therapy, I’ve noticed a past pattern of my parents responding to my behavior in ways I find inappropriate (e.g., when I was a teenager and I wanted to do X and they said no, I would then say, “Can you tell me why?” or “Well then, if you can’t do X because of Y, what if we did Z to mitigate Y?” in an attempt to problem-solve, but it was seen as insubordinate and argumentative. I think they saw it this way because my sister was constantly arguing with them when they told her no, but the difference was she was steadfastly trying to convince them to do it her way, whereas I was trying to compromise).

-Having their feelings ignored#
Con-stant-ly. And then told that "she hopes I don't feel like she's invalidating me." This is often followed by unsolicited advice on how to feel differently. 

-Needing to set difficult boundaries and worrying about sibling's angry or sad response
Any boundary I set is seen as a slight and an opportunity to either argue with me or tell me how I’m not behaving as a sister should. Most conversations with my sister are non-consensual negotiations. When I explicitly state that the boundary is non-negotiable, I am told that I am being unfair, selfish, and close-minded. I am slowly learning to let her think that. I can’t change it, and trying to set the record straight is just falling for her diversion tactic.

-having special days ruined such as birthdays or graduations because the PWBPD steals the show #
My sister, in general, can behave herself at events, but I’ve had experiences where she’s demanded my attention in front of close friends. For example, much of my ex-partner’s three day visit to my hometown last year was spent ferrying my sister around to different appointments (this was in the thick of her physical ailment complaints). I felt torn and frustrated because I felt obligated to help my sister who was seemingly in pain, but I also felt like the little time I had with my long-distance partner was not being considered. It was also the first time he’d met her, and I was embarrassed of what he might think.

-feeling like they have to include the sibling in events they don't want to#
I think this goes hand-in-hand with the one above this. I expressly requested that my sister not come to my graduation this past May because of how she had reacted to me setting boundaries with her. She was furious, but luckily my family was supportive of me.

-Having the sibling ask for money++

-Having the sibling constantly in crisis and needing to pull them off the floor++
I don’t have much contact with my sister anymore because any interaction could very easily turn into a request for help. This request usually starts out small but inevitably turns into something larger and more involved. If I refuse, or agree at first and then say “No, I’m done” when it reaches point I can’t agree to, I will be criticized for abandoning her in her time of need and told that “if I couldn’t help then she should have known that from the beginning.” But how could I have known, when I was working with incomplete information from the start?

This makes me feel like my sister is concealing her true intentions from me and that I’ll only realize it once it’s too late. I am wary because I don’t know if an invitation to go to coffee is genuine, or a pretense for asking for money or a place to live, or an excuse to corner me in a public place so that she can go down her laundry list of all the ways I’ve injured her without me fighting b.

-Worrying about the sibling's effect on the parents++
My mother has pretty bad anxiety as it is. Coupled with the fact that they were raised in poker-face households, I worry about their hesitancy to go to a therapist and the long-term effects that this prolonged period of stress will have on them.

* feeling enormous pressure to be good to make up to Mom and Dad for the problems caused by the borderline sibling
Yep, yep, yep, yep. This has been life-long (and kind of reinforced, unintentionally, by my parents who, like I said above, sometimes respond to me more harshly than they really should because of their experience with my sister). While I take responsibility for my own feelings, I recognize and am trying to unlearn a behavior of taking the blame for things that aren't my fault, or being overly hard on myself when I can't achieve my goals.

[tryingveryhard]

Thanks for the question. My observations relate to my adult sibling.The chaos in the family home during childhood was too overwhelming to be aware of my younger Sister's behaviours much.

Using my love for her daughter, my niece, to punish me for imagined slights, insults, deficiencies of character, ruining her life, and so on. for example, not letting me spend time with her

Berating my with a litany of insults and accusations of bad behaviour

Failing to come through on the few times I have asked for a favour

Entitlement to my attention, time, support, money, and so on

projecting her feelings or thoughts onto me / accusing me of thinking or doing things to hurt her

being really mean to me when she is experiencing dysregulation -- really low down mean

Being astonishingly ungrateful for everything we have given over decades

Doing all of these things to my partner too

Lying all the time, as in when she opens her mouth she is likely lying

Behaving in a manner that is socially and publicly embarrassing, like dressing inappropriately (stained, dishevelled, poory fitting, clothing), talking strangely in a manner that is difficult to describe, being an obnoxious drunk, asking for a bowlful of whipped cream at a restaurant and then eating it while walking to the ladies room, wearing a blanket draped around her for warmth instead of a jacket, just weird stuff.

phone calls from the police in the wee hours of the morning

lying (bears mentioning twice)

push/pull

being greedy

contacting me under the guise of friendliness with the intention of asking for something