He just figured Himself Out

[Tattered Heart]

My H was listening to a podcast today that was talking about BPD. He told me he thinks he has it.

I had to play it off like I didn't know much about it. I tried to ask questions but pressed too hard. I accidentally used the phrase "black and white thinking" when he was talking about idealization. That shut the conversation down. He told me not to psychoanalyze him.

What do I do now? Should I try to approach him again or just wait to see if he brings it up again? Should I tell him I looked up info on BPD and share that with him? He kind of acted like it was no big deal since there is no cure for it.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Radcliff]

My H was listening to a podcast today that was talking about BPD. He told me he thinks he has it.

Wow!  That's exciting!  OK, don't get too excited  I usually overplay openings.  I wonder if you could find out what podcast he as listening to without letting him know, so you could listen to it too?  He could never know, but it could be helpful background.

I had to play it off like I didn't know much about it. I tried to ask questions but pressed too hard. I accidentally used the phrase "black and white thinking" when he was talking about idealization. That shut the conversation down. He told me not to psychoanalyze him.

OK, so psychoanalysis is scary.  Sounds like judgement.  He could argue you're not qualified.  You seem to have a good recent track record with him as a supportive coach, though.  (Side thought, have you read "The Power of Habit?" It talks about how habits are formed, and how forming successful habits on the field can be one way to make sports teams excel -- I'm trying to go with the coaching thought and move this into manly improvement territory, away from psychoanalysis).

I would probably avoid using the BPD label, since if it goes wrong and that forms a negative association in his head, that association could stick.

My first inclination would I'm sure be the wrong one -- to figure out how to chart a course through BPD knowledge and treatment, leading him along the path.  But what if you turned this around and let him feel like he was leading, in control?  What was it about all of that stuff he heard and thought about himself that gives him pain and that he'd most like to change?  If you can get him to identify a couple of things, you can see if he's willing to let you help him figure out some strategies to address them.  Then you do some research in the background and see if you can help him get his first "win," any positive change that he can notice that matters to him. "The Power of Habit" talks about how Michael Phelps does the same exact routine before every race, putting on headphones, visualizing the race, etc.  I bet you could frame things in a non-fluffy, practical way that might appeal to a guy who doesn't want to be psychoanalyzed.  Pick one thing to start with, and see how it goes.  Take your time and pull back if he gets uncomfortable, this is a marathon   It's probably a series of conversations bit by bit over time to set this up.  I'm way too ignorant about mindfulness and DBT, but if you haven't already, maybe do some background reading on that.

He kind of acted like it was no big deal since there is no cure for it.

That's a bummer that he thinks this.  Since talking about BPD may not be a good idea, it might be tough to address this.  We know that treatment *is* possible and *can* be effective, though that seems to be the exception.  But if you concentrate on a particular symptom or two that are painful to him, and can generate some hope that he can improve a specific thing or two with habits/strategies, perhaps you sidestep his feeling that BPD can't be cured since you're not talking about BPD.

Perhaps if you pick one thing, and are able to coach him through some behavior strategies to make him feel better, he'll start to believe you can help him generate wins, and will be willing to try tackling another issue.  Pick the ones he wants; ask him what is next on his list.

OK, that's all I've got.  I'm excited that you have a potential opening.  Don't be discouraged if it appears to go away.  Keep an eye out and do what you can.  Good luck, and keep us posted!

[DaddyBear77]

Hey TH,

First I'll do the "We Have A Link For That" thing
1.05 | Telling Someone You Think They Have BPD

But in all seriousness, I've read and heard a lot of stories about how pushing on this point does not go well. This is how it went in my case... .

About 5 or 6 years ago, my pwBPD was seeing a very good T. She had a major relapse of her eating disorder and had dropped to an extremely dangerous weight. She really seemed to be searching for answers, and it just so happened that a couple years earlier I'd read SWOE and I though I had some answers for her!

One night over dinner she said ":)o you think maybe I have BPD? I mean, I'm not sure, but maybe?" And so I spilled it. I read this book, I've seen these symptoms over many years, self harm, SI, black and white, I just let it out. And it seemed she was soaking it in and I felt we were headed for break through territory.

A few weeks later, she comes back from her T and she declares "I can't believe you tried to tell me I had BPD! My T says I don't, and I am sure the only reason you said that was because you want to label me as crazy!"

This was 5 years ago and now, every few weeks, I hear about that time I called her crazy and just wanted to label her.

I guess I'm saying, be very careful. Think about how he's reacted to other similar kinds of things and consider what might be the result in both the senario where he goes for help (hint: he's already convinced there's no cure) or doesn't. Either way, if you put it out there it can't be taken back.

[Turkish]

BPD is a shame based disorder.  A person may know something is wrong with them,  but may struggle to reach out.  Shame voice may be,  "I'm defective, and undeserving of love."

My ex once told me,  "I feel like you're throwing my 'sickness' in my face!"

I'd play from ignorance, use the tools.  Validate.  Ask him how you can support him without mentioning BPD by name yourself.  "BPD, what is that?" "Thanks for the explanation.  What makes you think you have it?" Etc... .I imagine this will be tough to do,  like role playing. 

[Radcliff]

DaddyBear77 and Turkish,

Thanks for tempering my optimism with your caution and experience.  I like to believe that change is possible, but absolutely agree that going to fast or hitting the shame trap is counterproductive.  I have stepped in that trap myself a couple of times.

[Tattered Heart]

Thanks everyone. Lots of great advice and I'm going to employ a little of each. After his initial reveal, I think he needed to know he was safe. WE talked about some other stuff he had listened to on the podcast. And when he got a positive conversation from that, he moved into BPD. (He keeps calling it Bi-Polar but then corrects himself.). It sounds like he did a little more research on it, which I was very surprised about. I think he may have discovered this last week or so because recently he had mentioned BPD, but again kept calling it bi-polar so I didn't think much of it.

He went through the symptoms of BPD with me and explained how he thought he met the criteria. I was very impressed with his insight into how well he felt like things fit with him. He talked about the various treatments and said he does not want to be on meds. I agreed. He doesn't want to be in counseling for the rest of his life, but he might (big maybe) be interested in finding a DBT group therapy. I told him that I would not push any kind of treatment on him, but I also let him know that I was going to research this disorder for myself so I can understand it better.   I suggested that maybe he could find some podcasts on DBT therapy. He got a little touchy and said that I should not worry about fixing him, but focus on what I need to fix in myself. I validated that and didn't press that further and he backed off. I never came out and said, "yes I think you have it."

He became BPD advocate and began talking about the BPD community and getting rid of the stigma behind this mental illness. He had watched several youtube videos made my people with BPD and he identified with many of them.

So... .overall, I'm going to let him figure this all out for himself. I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing. He can choose to take steps towards getting better or not. I've never talked with him about BPD in the 3 years since I discovered it and I'm not going to talk about it now unless he wants to talk about it. But yes Wentworth I was REALLY excited about his new awareness. I hope that it will lead him to make changes, but even if he does or doesn't, I just still need to keep working on my skills.

[Radcliff]

Wow, all of that is exciting to hear!  I am rooting for you both!  I admire the measured and patient way you're approaching this.  He really is a lucky guy.  Thanks for sharing --- I am learning as I see how you're working through this.  Without the benefit of your example I worry that my desire to "fix" things would lead me to overplay it if my wife had a similar breakthrough right now.

[IsThisThingOn]

 I think the fact that she was in control and the one seeing and deciding for herself that these all fit her made her waaaay more willing to really acknowledge it all and has put her on a path to discovery, diagnosis, and acceptance.  

Yes I think that is very important to him.

I personally relate to that.  Before I found the DBT Program I ended up working through, I was pretty firm on the fact that I did not want to spend my life in therapy.  I was also pretty firm on the fact that I knew I had BPD but that "theres just no way this stupid DBT is going to do anything for it" ... .it did NOT take long at all for me to see how much easier things seemed. How much better I was handling situations both internally and externally. It started off slow but the progress was there and progress is a HUGE motivator. I got addicted to feeling good and handling things better. Years later I am still so addicted to how much better this way of thinking and being is compared to how I used to be.

That's great for you! I'm glad you found some relief.

[flourdust]

I have to dash a little cold water on the celebratory nature of this thread.

When my ex received a BPD diagnosis, she made outlandish claims that she didn't have BPD. She said her therapists told her it wasn't true, and they only gave her the diagnosis for insurance purposes. (This isn't a diagnosis insurance likes to pay for, actually. She had other diagnoses that were billable.)

Later, she switched gears and said she DID have BPD, and used it to excuse any of her behaviors.

So ... .this might let you nudge him into treatment, which is good, but don't expect this realization to change his thinking or behavior or to start taking responsibility.

[DaddyBear77]

I think the key here is to stay centered.

Will today bring a step forward? A step backward? Will the realizations of today turn into lasting progress tomorrow? It's a question that could be asked for all of us, pwBPD, nons, everyone. I speak very clearly for myself when I say this - I have realized so much about myself while I've been here, and only a certain percentage has turned into lasting, enduring truths that I carry forward off these boards.

I think we can all agree that the realizations here are positive and real, and I, for one, truly hope that they will be transformative.

*fingers crossed*

~DB

[Tattered Heart]

Will today bring a step forward? A step backward? Will the realizations of today turn into lasting progress tomorrow? It's a question that could be asked for all of us, pwBPD, nons, everyone. I speak very clearly for myself when I say this - I have realized so much about myself while I've been here, and only a certain percentage has turned into lasting, enduring truths that I carry forward off these boards.

I try to think of it as baby steps. We did not become co-dependent overnight. These are behavior patterns and unhealthy coping mechanisms that have been in our life since childhood. At one time, they had a purpose. Today, those same behaviors just create problems, but we can't undo a lifetime of practice. Just like our pwBPD learns new responses over time, us nons do too. Today we practice validation, tomorrow we use boundaries. Each time we use them, it gets easier and easier until hopefully they become habits. It just might take 20 years to get there.

[isilme]

Honestly, I'd just let it percolate in there for a while, and not say anything.  He's got a kernel of something in his head now.  It needs time to pearlize and become bigger.

[JoeBPD81]

Hi Tattered Heart. Nevertheless, it is exciting news. I hope it's not too dificult to hide what you already know about all this.

I think recovery, and the fact that there is treatment, seing that getting to feel better is unsure, a long process, and vague... .Doesn't give them much hope. But, knowing that they are not alone, that helps. Discovering people that see the world as they do, that have the same struggles, and caring for them, discovering they are worthy of love, it goes a long way in accepting themselves. Also finding patterns and explanation to their chaos, it puts some limits to it.

For me, the first two months after the diagnosis were intense, then we went to the phase "don't talk to me like a shrink"; but in time, we talk about splitting, b/w thinking, disregulation, paranoia... .As part of our daily vocabulary. Be patient and that day will come.

Good Luck!

[Tattered Heart]

used it to excuse any of her behaviors.

I'm concerned about this too. He did jokingly say that I can't get mad at him now when he acts out because he can't help it and it's a disability. I laughed, but then seriously said I would not accept that as an excuse. Then I added the joke that if he uses it as an excuse I would have him locked into a psych ward. He laughed, but I'm pretty sure he understood what he was saying.

[Tattered Heart]

I hope it's not too dificult to hide what you already know about all this.

It shouldn't be too difficult. I keep so much of my knowledge and opinion from him as it is so that I can protect it from being used against me. I've learned what I can share and what not to share.

[Grey Kitty]

You know that telling a pwBPD that they have BPD is a minefield.

I actually had my wife figure out that she might have BPD through other sources (before I did, if I recall correctly), and all I did was more-or-less agree with her about it.

It still blew up a few times 

So... .overall, I'm going to let him figure this all out for himself. I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing. He can choose to take steps towards getting better or not. I've never talked with him about BPD in the 3 years since I discovered it and I'm not going to talk about it now unless he wants to talk about it.

  I think what you are doing is exactly the best thing you can do here. If he does bring up BPD, I would suggest you tread lightly away from that subject if you get a good opportunity to do so--it is dangerous territory, with both risks and some possible progress/rewards as well, so moving on is more 'safe'.

One possibility is if he identifies something specific (like black and white thinking) which is part of BPD and talks about it with you, or if you are able to point out instances of it... .WITH GOOD RESULTS, keep that in your toolbox. If results are mixed or poor, don't keep doing things which don't work well!

... .back to the bigger picture... .

This is encouraging--this level of insight on his part is indeed a step in a good direction. Celebrate it for what it is, while accepting that it doesn't guarantee the next step or timing of it.