Not sure where to begin...but things are bad

[scared212]

Things have probably been bad for a long time.  Married 20 years to someone clearly with NPD possibly BPD too.  I only realized this when I saw the book Walking on Eggshells and it was very clear NPD for certain.  About 16 months ago my husband came to me admitting cheating for several years but wanted to do anything necessary to ensure I did not leave.  We have been seeing an excellent therapist who said we had a lot of hope, it would not be easy but we would come out the other end better than ever.

I felt at a time of extreme sadness, depression and highly fragile emotional state was not the time to decide to stay or go.

We have two children, they are now both in high school.  I cannot afford to leave without truly uprooting our lives. 

I have seen my husband be awful and I am scared.  Never physical abuse but the things he says and does can be overly cruel and vindictive. 

Fast forward 16 months and sometimes things are better than ever, other times they are so bad I think, where is the other side.

To add to this, my husband is about to have bariatric surgery, doctor recommended.  He is having Paxil withdraw and has lost his job, he quit, he felt something illegal may have been going on, is an attorney and did not want to risk his law license.  He felt confident he would get another job quickly.  He has not (although I am not so sure he has tried all that hard) and has been spending money business as usual.  My attempts to insist we/he cut back (I already have significantly) have fallen on deaf ears. 

There have been several awful incidents, all have resulted in him coming around.  I usually stay silent and remove myself (and sometimes my children too, although he rarely loses it at them the way he does with me) from the situation.

We live in an apartment, in a non driving city, so it is not always easy.

I do not have family (long story) and no friends who I could go to with this.  They all know him too and would never believe me.  I have one very close friend from childhood, who kind of knows how bad things are, but she lives in another city and is not nearby.

It all came to a head when my husband texted me to take a 100K loan on my 401K because we were out of money.  His 401K is tied up with his former employer.  He said as soon as he had a new job and rolled it over, he would take the loan from his 401K and pay mine back.  I am out of town on business in all day meetings with many people.  He wanted me to call but I said I could not call until later.  He said he would be out and to take the loan.  I suggested alternatives (his Mom, a personal loan or HELOC) and said I could not take the 100K loan (which I cannot the max I can take is 50K). 

He lost it completely.  Telling me I am not supporting my family etc. Threatening all sorts of awful things.  I responded once or twice saying I loved him and wanted to support him but text was not the way to go.

I am hesitant to take the loan.  We would have that 50K if he were not spending like it was business as usual, when he started to see there would be issues with his employer.

He has had trouble (or seen issues) with every employer he has been with.  There is always a 'legitimate' reason for why he leaves, to date mainly on his own.  He hates every job he has ever had.

I have that sick feeling, am trying to hold it together for work and feel as though everything is very unpredictable. 

I was not going to call or reach out to him unless it was before or after the work day and I told him this.  I also said I was happy to speak once he was calm. 

I feel it is best to wait until we see each other when I return from my trip and hope for the best.

I called and spoke to the kids last night, they said everything is great and they are having a good time with him this week.

Thank you for listening.  I think my biggest question, at least for now, is do I hold firm on not taking a loan for the 50K or take the 50K and if he blows through it and I lose it, well then that is that. 

We do have 20 years together but right now trust is a huge issue.  He has not proven trustworthy or able to financially keep us afloat.  I work too but earn about 1/4 of what he earns.  Included in what he wrote was derogatory comments about my job, my success (or lack thereof etc.).  Because he is an attorney and I am not, he has the ability to earn more than me.  I supported our family while he was in law school.  He went later in life.  I want to support our family now but do not want to reward his behavior and am concerned about the 50K loan and what all happen to the money.

I always say I want to leave but I know I never will.  I do not have the strength and probably never will.  He will have to leave me and he may.  It would probably be good for me.  I should add he will no longer see the therapist and she also said we were in good shape.  One of his threats was, don't even try saving this for Dr. X, I am done with that 'BS', as that is what is it. 

I feel scared, alone and thought I would try posting here... .

I am leaving for work in about 10 minutes but will check back later.  Thank you for your support or at least letting me jot down several feelings.

[Lucky Jim]

I always say I want to leave but I know I never will.  I do not have the strength and probably never will.  He will have to leave me and he may.  It would probably be good for me.  I should add he will no longer see the therapist and she also said we were in good shape.  One of his threats was, don't even try saving this for Dr. X, I am done with that 'BS', as that is what is it. 

Hey scared212, Welcome!  You have come to the right place to learn more about BPD.  I'm sorry to hear what you are going through.  When you say you want to leave but know you never will, what do you mean by that?  When you say "He will have to leave me," it sounds like you are giving him the power to make the decision.  Why is that?  Don't you have the same power?  Fill us in, when you can.  I know these are tough questions, but might help us to better understand your situation.

LuckyJim

[ozmatoz]

Scared212 I know what you mean by not having the strength to be the one to leave.  I am in the middle of a crisis with my uBPDw.  It has been all the typical things, horrible accusations, downright degrading comments that just leave your self esteem in shatters.  Its hard to build the strength to go when you are constantly being told how much of a loser you are, and that you'll never do better... .look at you now, you are pathetic... .  It hurts. 

Also one thing for me is that if I am the one that pushes through and finally files for divorce I am absolutely TERRIFIED of the rage that will bring out.  I've seen rage and recently our daughter called the cops to our house (whole other discussion).  I cannot even imagine what she'll be like with her abandonment issues.  I almost hope she gets fed up and files, or finds another man to be with thus giving me a legitimate excuse to get out.

She thinks I'm the one with a PD and I do see a therapist to help keep myself together from these attacks.  I wish she would see someone but I am constantly told its not her, its me.  While I was certainly not a perfect husband she cannot come to grip with her role in any of the problems in our 17 years together.

Best of luck to you, stay on these boards it has been a lifesaver for me.
-Oz

[Red5]

ozmatoz & @Scared212,

[ It has been all the typical things, horrible accusations, downright degrading comments that just leave your self esteem in shatters.  Its hard to build the strength to go when you are constantly being told how much of a loser you are, and that you'll never do better... .look at you now, you are pathetic... .  It hurts. ]

… This is classic behavior (default) of a p/BPD, don’t take it so close to heart, you know what kind of person you really are, these types of attacks are well documented in many things I have read, my own u/BPD wife does the exact same thing to me, furthermore, I have read that when they are “dysregulating” like this, you indeed may be seeing, and hearing an alternate personality within your s/o as they rant and rave to you, almost as if they have digressed into some form of early youth, perhaps a teenage girl, or boy, who was harmed long ago by their parents, or else someone else, this may also be called ”projecting”, or “mirroring”, ie’ what they really feel about themselves inwardly is coming out at fire hose full on strength aimed directly at you, yes, this is a classic type of behavior exhibited by BPD’s, and as well NPD’s.   

[ Also one thing for me is that if I am the one that pushes through and finally files for divorce I am absolutely TERRIFIED of the rage that will bring out. … I cannot even imagine what she'll be like with her abandonment issues.  I almost hope she gets fed up and files, or finds another man to be with thus giving me a legitimate excuse to get out… ]

… Yes, abandonment issues, in my r/s, when I put my foot down, and went to see a lawyer, and she knew I was NOT playing games this time, she “love bombed” me… and it worked the first time, now I am apoplectic at the thought of any intimacy with my u/BPD wife… too much damage has been done, as per above comment, “default behaviors”, as it does just wear you down after so many years pass, and you become somewhat “shell shocked”, and apathetic towards the relationship, I too feel no fear if she were to pull up her tent, and move on to the next love interest,yes, it’s that bad here in my square, a fixed point of emptiness has been reached as far as my feeling towards my wife,

[… She thinks I'm the one with a PD and I do see a therapist to help keep myself together from these attacks.  I wish she would see someone but I am constantly told its not her, its me.  While I was certainly not a perfect husband she cannot come to grip with her role in any of the problems in our 17 years together.… ]

… My own u/BPD wife also says I am the one who is “crazy”, I had the nerve last December to actually infuse into a fight that… “HEY”… do you even realize that you are exhibiting “text-book” classic symptoms of borderline personality disorder’, I had reached the end of my rope, and no longer feared her anger, so I threw that in there, and she of course turned it right back round, and accused me of being the “crazy one”… You see, “they” will never admit that they have any problems whatsoever, as as they are perfect after all, and the queen of the house, to be served, serviced, and bowed down to, a no win situation, as the beatings continue, like the recruit that can do nothing right, and is in a constant state of dysfunction…

Best of luck to you both,  [ stay on these boards it has been a lifesaver for me.]

Me2 !

Red5

[scared212]

Thank you all very much for responding to my post earlier.  

Lucky Jim asked what I mean by I will never have the strength to leave.  I am a very weak person.  Each time he threatens to leave me, I try to work it out.  After 20 years of marriage, I tend to tell myself I have put up this long, what is at least another few years, when our children will be out of our apartment.  I can't just walk out on my husband and children, leaving everything behind.  However once they are both in college, I may have a bit more strength.  This is a critical time in my children's life.  It is tough enough being a teenager, I do not want to make it worse.  

However if he were to leave me, I would have no choice.  

I also cannot afford to leave, this is my own fault.  I should have socked away money all these years and I have not.  I at least should have started when he started threatening to leave.

I hear what you are all saying about projecting his issues on me.  When I wrote yesterday my 401K would not allow me to take 100K, I would lose a lot and made alternative suggestions, his response in all caps was F YOU!  followed by "You cannot begin to fathom how mad your response made me.  Think long and hard about what you are saying here.  Why don't you ask your f'ing parents for the money?  Why does it always have to be mine.  Oh right, you don't have any communication with those dysfunctional pieces of s^&t.  I guess I'll just withdraw my whole f'ing 401K and go on a coke and hookers binge and disappear into the sunset.  You can have the kids and the apartment and do whatever the f yu want with your miserable and wretched life.  And don't even think about saving this text for Dr. X because I am done with that s*&t.  Work together sure.  Goodbye.  And maybe we wouldn't be in this position if you had the balls to leave that bull s*&t job and step up and make some real money.  Really $XK?  Isn't that what the manager at the Gap makes?  

My response was "if and when you calm down, let me know and I will give you a call from my hotel room XO"

His response "Call me now"

My response "Sorry I can't"

His response "OK well I am leaving now to go out with Chris.  If you can find time tomorrow maybe we can talk then"

My response "I can find time either before or after the work day and if you confirm you are calm.  I did not realize you were out with Chris tonight.  I do love you.  Have fun"

His response "You love me just not enough to help me and and family financial in a tough time.  So without that, I can get everything else from a cheap ass whore and it will be a lot cheaper.  Good luck"

My response "You don't sound calm.  I love you and want to support you but as I said, over text is not appropriate.  I asked to discuss but you still don't seem calm.  I will not talk until you are calm."

His response "Whatever"

This was all yesterday during the work day, while I was in all day meetings with groups of people.  But I wrote today on my way out of the office to say "If you are okay/calm and wish to talk I will be back at the hotel in about 30 minutes".  He replied "no need".  I replied "I would like to catch up, do you have a few minutes"  He has not replied.  

I will likely leave him alone.

Now I am left wondering what I will arrive home to on Friday.  I am petrified.  Lord knows what he has done or is doing.  

I will keep coming here and reading.

Thank you for the anticipated support.

[ozmatoz]

Scared212 my heart breaks for you reading these exchanges.  I don't think they mean it, but it always comes across as "me, me, me... ." all that matters is "me".  I too hear the financial side of things... .I make more than I thought I ever could, we live in a great community, brand new house with a pool and expensive cars in the garage... .she has only worked a few hours a week just to give her some sense of contribution and a reason to keep doing what she loves.  Recently though our D16 needed to change schools and is now going to private school for her last 2 years.  In order to do this my uBPDw agreed to pick up some hours doing something else she was passionate about to pay for it.  But that has been continually been thrown in my face... ."oh what a great provider you are... ." (full of sarcasm).  "such a great husband, can't even afford to take care of his own family... ."  I just can't win.  Now she's after me to leave my company of 15 years that I've worked my way through so that we can have "more".  Not sure of what... .but just "more".

I hope you get home to some sort of peace, but it doesn't sound likely.  If you need strength turn to the members here.  We've got your back.

Red5, thank you for the response.  Seems like you've been through this ringer for awhile and can truly understand what I've been through.  I have been reading up on dysregulation and it really seems like this is what is frequently happening and gosh it is tough to get through.  I know bits and pieces of a rough childhood she had.  She wont share all the details, but tells me if I really knew her then I would know why my actions hurt so much.  Well I can't read her mind and I certainly am not trying to pick at her old wounds I don't know about.  I too threw the PD item on the table once when I had just hit my absolute limit one day.  I still haven't heard the end of it.  I'm the crazy one, good thing your are in therapy, you need it.  She even goes as far as to tell me what I should be talking to my T about... .

She found out once that I went to see a lawyer (in response to her threats that she was seeing one).  She nearly kicked the door down to the bathroom while I was in the shower.  She had searched my car and was going through my work notebook and found the name and phone number written down.  Wow was that a night to remember (also my D's 16th birthday... .awesome right? )  I wish she had love bombed me, would have been a welcome change of events.

Now it is all about how I've emotionally abandoned her.  Well as you put it after taking all these beatings I am "shell shocked".  Even knowing that she probably doesn't mean it, all the nastiness and threats and comments take their toll.  Thank you sir may I have another... .

If either of you need to keep venting/talking/asking please do.  We all need each other's help here.

-Oz

[Red5]

@scared212

From reading your post(s), I do not think you are weak, rather you are protecting your children, I too did this in my previous marriage, I stayed with it, even though things had digressed to beyond horrible, I was NOT about to leave those kids with her and her dysfunctional life style, in the end, she left on her own, and I became a single father, No, you are NOT weak, you are sacrificing your own relationship happiness for the safety of your children, and that is a brave thing to do, and I salute you, as I know it’s not an easy thing to do, So hang in there, this situation went on for a little over eleven years for me, I was married to my ex/wife for twenty one years, your kids need you to be strong, and they need security, and a reliable parent, and it sounds that right now this is you, and not your husband.

[However if he were to leave me, I would have no choice.] … prepare yourself for this, it may very well happen, then believe it or not, there is life on the other side, also solace, and peace of mind, remember that you cannot change the other person, if they are going to leave, then be strong, don’t grovel, or beg, in the case of a p/BPD, and maybe some NPD in there, it’s all about the ego, and staying “op top”… don’t  be “led around”… threatened and controlled, this is no way to live your life, and remember that your children are watching all of this take place,

 My response "You don't sound calm.  I love you and want to support you but as I said, over text is not appropriate.  I asked to discuss but you still don't seem calm.  I will not talk until you are calm."… ]… // perfect response  !

… [ This was all yesterday during the work day, while I was in all day meetings with groups of people.  But I wrote today on my way out of the office to say "If you are okay/calm and wish to talk I will be back at the hotel in about 30 minutes".  He replied "no need".  I replied "I would like to catch up, do you have a few minutes"  He has not replied.  ]… //

… [ I will likely leave him alone. , Now I am left wondering what I will arrive home to on Friday.  I am petrified.  Lord knows what he has done or is doing.  ]…

//… yes, the best bet is, after an extended episode of dysregulation, character assassination, and attempts to isolate, attempts to control, and to degrade and invalidate your known and perceived position of responsibility, (common sense) within the relationship, best to “checkout”, at this point, there will be no apologies (if ever), no negotiations, of agreement to just disagree, “nada”… Remember who you are talking to, NOT an adult, but perhaps the “inner child” at this point, this I have read, may as well be arguing with an unruly teenager at this point. 

If you can get to a place where you are no longer being manipulated, and can gain some control over your own peace of mind, your own financial security, your own ability to understand what is actually happening within your relationship, then you will be able to breath much better, I understand that you have a lot invested here, twenty years of marriage, children, joint financial commitments, mortgage, bills, so forth and so on, Then it can be quite scary when the other SO goes off the rails, and seem sot have no regard for common sense, and seems to be able to set it all on fire, with and thought of the consequences… and then to top it all off, the actual childlike, destructive, non-caring banter back and forth, that I read here, “coke & hookers”…… You are a strong person, as I said above to still be in the relationship, and I can relate… but sounds like if you have an explanation in NPD, and BPD, then you have begun to read and learn more, and this is exactly what you should be doing, Turn that blaring boom box husband off for a while, don’t let that get under your skin anymore, Take care of yourself, get smart, arm yourself with knowledge, read read read… And pretty soon, when he begins a tirade, you will be able to call it as it happens,ie’ ok, here he goes, character attack, now dysregulation, now he is going to “push – pull”… Here comes another guilt trip attempt…

This is the bottom line up front, only you can decide to stay or go, and you cannot force any kind of change on the other party, I have read, Understand, set boundaries, attain security, whether financial, or emotional / physical, Stop letting the other party have free reign to attack, to hurt, deflate, defang, disarm, and most important of all, do not let the other party beat you down until you are nothing but an empty shell, do NOT lose yourself in all the “FOG”… fear, obligation, and alleged guilt… no, never allow yourself to become lost in this relationship.

V/R Red5

[Red5]

@ozmatoz
…[ Now she's after me to leave my company of 15 years that I've worked my way through so that we can have "more".  Not sure of what... .but just "more".  ] …

// Jealousy is a very large part of the NPD/BPD mind set, … a very childlike expression of their feelings, … almost as if, they want to attack and even destroy the strong one, the solid provider, … cut cut cut, … “your lazy, etc etc, your stupid, you’re an idiot … so forth and so on, … meanwhile, you agree the one with the steady job/career, solid future, assets, and cast iron plan for the future …. Never really understood why “they” will attack the every underpinnings of the foundation … to try to actually destroy the families security... another “classic” default behavior pattern, seen it many many time in my ex, and as well my current marriage ….

…[  She found out once that I went to see a lawyer (in response to her threats that she was seeing one).  She nearly kicked the door down to the bathroom while I was in the shower.  She had searched my car and was going through my work notebook and found the name and phone number written down.  Wow was that a night to remember (also my D's 16th birthday... .awesome right? )  I wish she had love bombed me, would have been a welcome change of events…... Now it is all about how I've emotionally abandoned her.  Well as you put it after taking all these beatings I am "shell shocked".  Even knowing that she probably doesn't mean it, all the nastiness and threats and comments take their toll.  Thank you sir may I have another... .  ] …

// yes, I can concur! … a BPD absolutely FEARS any sustained strength that may be shown by the ”mark” … the “target” …. And when they sense that any expression of strength, or else an escape attempt, you are going to get beat down, and flayed (character crush) …. To ensure that you will never have any inkling to try and take control, and run again …. Like “Cool Hand Luke” …. As the years pass, and you become smarter, …. And have more “operational experience” … like I said above, you will be able to “call it” … play by play, this only comes after many years of endured “shelling” …. Then you are “shell shocked” …. and if you are not a complete shell, bewildered, and lost, then you are “smart” …. Then you are going to see a lot of pouting, stone walling, not much yelling at all, just a little snipe hear and there, …. This means you’re boundaries are holding, …. If you ever get to this point of strength, then you will have some relief, but by now, everything is “in your name”, …. Finical controls have been set, and you have protected yourself form any destructive behaviors that may be perpetrated by your mate, …. Its like living with an unruly, smart mouthed teenager, …. Not really a life, now you ar a caretaker, …. But once the know you are not leaving, and you are NOT putting up with their bravo sierra anymore, …. Well, that’s a safe place …. This is where I am now, with my wife. …. Do I care if she goes or stays, … I am afraid I am not, this is part of the armored protection system that you will create around yourself … to keep your sanity, … keep reading, and learning, the BEST bet, to be armed with knowledge, so then you will understand why this is happening in you relationship …. I ain’t leaving, I married her, I took the oath, but is has been one hell of a ride, … my first marriage almost killed me, but end it made me stronger, so that I can now survive in this marriage …. But I am pretty beat up now, a lot of my “empathy” for her has evaporated under the constant duress,…. That is may world,

V/R Red5

[scared212]

I cannot thank you enough for your replies.  I arrived home today, silent treatment, he is very angry still and asked him to leave him alone.  So I will.  But it is definitely weird as the kids are home too.  My son says he is tired my daughter asked why Daddy was mad at me.  I told her without going into the horrid details.  I just said, Daddy asked me to do something and we had a misunderstanding.  She actually looked at me and said, I know you work hard to keep our family together but why do you let Daddy treat you this way.  I started to cry and said I don't know but all I can say is do as I say, not as I do and know you can ALWAYS call me.  I will always be here for you to support you until I am in the grave.  She just hugged me and told me how much she loves me.  I feel so sad my 15 year old child sees me as weak and mistreated. 

I appreciate the comments on my strength but at the moment, I can't feel it or stop crying, now that I am home.  But in front of him I did not cry.  I do not want to show him how weak I am or that he is 'winning' if that makes sense.  I hope I can keep it together. 

FWIW, I took the loan, my 401K would only allow $21K, so I took it.  The check is on the way.  I know this was the wrong decision but I told him I took the money and he is still angry.  I may hold onto the check as why would I give him this money if he is this angry still. 

Thank you again.  I feel sad, lonely and beaten down to a nub. 

[Red5]

@scared212,

Hang in there, remember what I wrote about how the children will be also aware, may be caught up during the acting out. One thing I have come to realize, what ever your mate demands, .and you give in, its never enough, and you are still "colored black"... .your mate w/BPD is an all or nothing thinker, black and white, there is never an in between, another default behavior trait, well documented. The back and forth flight(s), then make-ups, and then period of calm, and then you do something (egg-shells/landmine), and they are off again, this is called "cycling", .soon you will recognize the pattern, it is repeated time after time after time... .and if you bring this up, "now LOOK, remember when you ____"... .this will denied, and you will be told you are the one who is crazy, this is called "gas-lighting"... .as you can see, from your last post, your daughters remarks, they are very aware, aren't they.

" She actually looked at me and said, I know you work hard to keep our family together but why do you let Daddy treat you this way.  "

Find your inner strength, don't get lost in this, .don't let the dysregulation get to you, you know what kind of person you really are, your daughter just confirmed that to you, .take care of yourself now, enjoy some time with your children... .we here all know how hard this can be, hang in there scared212, .v/r Red5