Setting boundaries with BPD mom

[RiverGal87]

Hi everyone! First of all I'm extremely grateful that this site exists, so I would like to extend a big thank you to everyone that contributes constructive and empathetic responses.  A little background: my fiance was a professional athlete while he was with BPD mom, he left to fulfill a contract to play overseas after my step daughter was born, which is what triggered her BPD.  He retired and came home to an abusive partner who would berate and belittle him at every opportunity.  Eventually she left and told him to pay for her apartment, so he did.  He managed to file papers and get 50/50 custody (3-4-4-3), and now six years later here we are!

Here is my problem: I already see the six year old girl being her mother's emotional caretaker.  She has learned what to say and when to say it, wants to be the entertainer, the distractor, and never shows any emotion other than painted on happiness.  When we do talk about feelings with the six year old, she glazes over and puts on a thousand yard stare and completely shuts down.  Dad thinks this is normal. I think six year old girl is afraid of her emotions and/or has been told that they aren't okay. 

Recently, her mother moved in with a new partner who has money (finding partners with money is her way of getting by), and they have a lovely new McMansion together.  As per the parenting agreement, we don't "ask personal questions about the other parent" but a few things have become clear. BPD mom has quit her job and is now working for him. She has left their house on at least one occasion with six year old girl in tow and stayed at a hotel. 

The six year old girl got very anxious and snappy with me recently when I got a bit of sunscreen on her new dress (she is wearing new clothes every time i see her).  She had just come from mom's house and told me that if mom saw sunscreen on her dress she would "flip". I assured her that we didn't have to worry about her mom coming here, and that in the future I would try to be more aware of the sunscreen application and promised to wash it out. Little girl was very nervous and anxious. Her mom has also "flipped" berated me in front of the little girl during an exchange.

For some reason Dad thinks that BPD mom is able to control her behavior around the little girl, and this is obviously not the case.  At the same time, when I got into this relationship I certainly was not signing up to be berated by a borderline without consequence.  It seems to me that everyone just expects me to say "Oh, that's just BPDmom and it doesn't matter because she gets a free pass because she won't admit she's borderline." And I understand the empathy piece: I work in behavior change with morbidly obese patients. But she doesn't get to abuse me in front of her daughter, because I don't want her daughter thinking that it's okay to treat me like garbage.  Treating people that way is not in line with our family values.

We have a meeting with BPD mom (as requested by mom's new partner and myself) and I feel that we need to draw a line in the sand and tell BPDmom that this behavior is not acceptable, and if she says nasty things to or about me in front of the child, it is in violation of the parenting agreement.  Everyone else seems to want to dance around the issue and say things like "I will always treat your partner with respect, and I expect you to do the same with mine." That isn't good enough. She knows what she did, she excused herself to my partner, but in my mind she crossed a boundary and we need to let her know that this will not be acceptable in the future.

Of course I want to discuss other things at the meeting, like our family values and what the little girl's life is like in our home.  But I also need to tell her that I will not tolerate that kind of behavior, because I won't. I feel that even if she storms out of the meeting in an absolute rage: at least she understands that there will be repercussions for her behavior and that I am not her beating post.  I feel that if we don't address this point blank: the behavior will be employed again. In my opinion, she is like a child and there must be outlined consequences for inappropriate behavior.

BTW: I have also set an appointment with my therapist to talk about these issues, but it drives me mad that BPD mom gets to be the social butterfly who then turns into the wicked witch and I just have to take it.

[Fie]

Hello RiverGal87 


Welcome and thank you for sharing your story !

I think it's a good idea to use boundaries with your little girl's mum, and to not tolerate abuse. However, boundaries are only useful if we enforce them. Did you think about consequences ? What will the consequence be if mum would berate you again in front of her daughter ?


Here is a link for you about discussing, or not, the BPD of a parent with a young child :

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=309963.0

[Klera]

Hi,

I was curious about you being involved in the exchanges.  In my experience and situation,  I don't go near the ex's place and she doesn't come to ours (anymore).  My H picks my step kids up and drops them off.  We established that rule (when we used to share 50-50) b/c their BPD mom was never (and I do mean EVER) on time within a 20 minute window.  Whether it was deliberate or not, she showed that she simply was not capable of, or interested in, punctuality, our value.   When I first moved in 7 years ago when my step kids were 6 & 7 yo, their mother used to park and come up to the door with them carrying their school bags.  Although she didn't berate me, she did put on a show once, threw a bag at my feet with some winter boots we requested from her, she said with a 'tone', "There.  I don't think any of it fits... .but... .whatever"  I thought:  'gee, thanks for your supreme effort'.    Another time she dropped off a suitcase containing cut out holes in my SS pants that she obviously did to piss me off (I was preparing his clothes for school).  That was what we called, 'the boiled bunny' in reference to the movie, "Fatal Attraction"... Other times when she saw me greet them at the door, she'd speed off in her car almost losing control (she couldn't handle seeing me hug my SD and sent an email saying that she did not want me to greet them on my own doorstop).    She would also show up at unexpected times 'dropping something off' that we didn't ask for.   When we moved into our current house, we did not reveal  the address until it was absolutely necessary when she was to drop the kids off for the next exchange.  Well, did she ever blow a gasket!  How dare that we 'keep that from her' kind of nonsense.  My H has explained numerous times (since), to her AND to several mediators, as she's never let it go, that he could not afford to risk her showing up unexpectedly and unwelcome making trouble or harassing us in some way. Once we knew what we were dealing with, then my H and I gradually changed things to protect ourselves and in the next Parental Agreement that was made, he was rewarded with the agreement that neither parties come on to each others properties.  That the exchange vehicle is to park on the street with the kids now able to go into each house on their own. 

Anyway, I wanted to share an example that once you decide what does not work, then you establish whatever rule our boundary that does.   I simply would not even engage with that woman if I were you.  Your SD is still so young and does not deserve this stress that the mother is blatantly causing her.   Perhaps establish that you simply do not have to be face to face with her.  I would sincerely wish you luck with this meeting with her.  In my experience with pwBPD (the kids' mother) even in a legal mediation, she blatantly lied several times and thought nothing of it.  Values?  Forget it.  In order to help myself years ago, I realized early that we do not share the same values and never will.  She will boundary bash every chance she gets so my advice to you is,  "When they show you who they are, believe them"  and protect yourself, your H and your SD as best as you can.  If it means rock solid boundaries, rules etc then the pwBPD have to face the consequences.  We all have to and they do to.   

Take care of yourself!

[RiverGal87]

Whether it was deliberate or not, she showed that she simply was not capable of, or interested in, punctuality, our value.   When I first moved in 7 years ago when my step kids were 6 & 7 yo, their mother used to park and come up to the door with them carrying their school bags.  Although she didn't berate me, she did put on a show once
[/quote]

Hi Kiera,

As it happens, BPD mom cancelled our meeting in order to attend the "last" swim lesson of SD (which I arranged and paid for). Mind you, this activity was during our custodial period, scheduled by us, paid for by us, and coordinated by us. BPDmom decided to show up and sit across the pool from me. She waved and smiled, so I did the same. Then she went and spoke with the pool owner for 90% of the lesson while I watched SD swim. SD didn't know how to swim until this year, when I put her in swim lessons, because I am an avid swimmer both competitively and as a former river guide. It is important to me that SD knows how to swim because there is a lot of water where we live and SD's safety should be #1 priority. I don't think her mom knows how to swim, and she was very angry when she "found out" (we already told her) that SD had a swimming lesson.  Of course, after that she decided to join in and make besties with everyone at the pool. Because she does that. She makes everyone love her with her winning personality and outgoing, effervescent charm. It kills me.

Anyway, she cancelled the meeting and then "bashed" a boundary as you say, by showing up to swim lessons. I really like your advice with the parenting agreement and I think that's something that I will bring up with HD. Since the cancelled meeting we have decided (as a couple) that it's best we just don't interact because we don't want to waste our time and energy on her chaos. We are going to sit down and have a conversation about what the boundaries need to look like, how we can create them, and run through some if this/then that scripting type exercises. He supports me and accepts that the boundaries have changed and understands that there needs to be a debriefing discussion if/when she berates me again. 

Any details you would be willing to provide on how to have an exchange with minimal interaction would be wonderful.  No one seems to understand, but I absolutely HATE that BPDmom shows up at my house. She drops things off intermittently (we have told her to stop), and she draws out the exchange with "hide and seek" games, or what I see as patterns of disorganized attachment among both her and SD. Mostly, I just don't want her to come to my house. I don't go to her house, and I don't want her to come to mine.

[Panda39]

Hi RiverGal87,

Since your husband seems to be a bit in denial regarding his ex's behaviors around their daughter, do you think your husband would consider joining us too?  My SO and I are both members and it really helped us be on the same page and speak the same language.

I pulled a couple of links that might be relevant... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167128.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=97979.0

Also, if you haven't already, take a look at the items in the box to the right-> each item is a link to more information.

In terms of your exchanges it isn't uncommon to meet somewhere half way between the two homes (the library, the grocery store parking lot... .wherever), sometimes it's done at the child's school (mom drops daughter off in the morning and dad picks her up at the end of the day) or if things are high conflict exchanges can occur at the local police station. Where depends on your individual situation.

Keeping interaction at a minimum is key but yes you can expect boundary busting.  Negative attention is still attention.

Panda39

[Klera]

  Hi RiverGal87,

She makes everyone love her with her winning personality and outgoing, effervescent charm. It kills me.


I know, I know, I've been there too. I'm sorry it can be so frustrating!   She can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of them all of the time. Eventually the mask falls off and the cracks start to reveal themselves, not to worry.   Keep true to yourself, obviously someone who can smile and wave to her like you did is top class in my book.  I don't think I could have.  I don't have to see my stepkids' mom in the flesh unless I go to the kids' school functions which in a year amounts to 2 or 3 tops, spring or winter events.  I might do the odd science fair that the kids invite us to if I'm feeling brave enough to have to endure her wear her "MOTY" cape (Mother Of The Year) charming the pants off the teachers and other parents.  It's like personally knowing Jekyll and Hyde.  If only they knew the 'real' her, I think to myself.    I have to block my H like a bodyguard to prevent her from trying to approach him to try have a cutesy conversation.  I'm protective of him, such a lovely man and dare I say a bit gullible to her phoniness.  He says he isn't... but we agree to disagree on that one. I'm always coaching on reading between the lines with her.   And believe me it's always at the schools where she seems to put on the biggest show, an academy award winning performance.  Or if she wants something, it's always about what's in it for her.    We just go to the opposite sides of the audience or I might walk by and give her the death stare, my annual xmas greeting    Don't worry it's all civil... .we have an 'understanding' that she can't fool me and that I don't fall for her fake, "say, let's all be besties" crap when I know deep down the she-devil is lurking in there waiting to pounce at any opportunity. 

... Pause for breathing... .

I don't have any magic solutions for you but I would say as long as you and your H are on the same page about strategies, boundaries,  the best solutions for you both when it comes to handling the ex's antics, then you're on the right track I believe.   It sounds like you have good communication and support each other well.  Try not to look at it like the ex getting a 'free pass' but I know what you're talking about.  Don't worry about the people who don't 'get it', just take care of you first, then you can be strong and healthy for your little girl and give her the best example of what NOT to be like.  She is still very young and it's a journey.  Just do your best with your instincts, you sound like a very common sense grounded and caring person.  Shut down any ways that the ex is getting 'in' or at you.   For example the pool stunt was a big no-no showing up during your custodial time, a definite middle finger to you I'd say - what a smooth operator she is.  I think with her showing up to your house, you do not have to tolerate that.  I think with these things, you'll need legal help and discuss this with your H what you both want to change with exchanges, fine tune in your parental agreement and what works best for you and the girl.  I'm confident that what's in your daughter's best interest is not to witness conflict between the two mom's in front of her and you can certainly make a case that the mom is not to come to your property because of this aggressive behaviour and verbal abuse towards you.  You do not have to put up with that for one second especially on your own turf!   Your H should have your back with this. Where is he when she is at your door?    With us, my H made changes based on the breaches the ex was making.   Every time she blatantly ignored or transgressed, it was documented, added to the pile and then off goes the letter to the lawyers and then the next round was more and more tightening of the leash so to speak.   Privileges that were once offered, got revoked, no trust (earned) - no favours,  all issues pertaining to the parallel parenting of the kids with minimal contact of the parents and we gradually made the adjustments needed based on what we wanted and what was not working before. The lawyers can help with that.  We cut down all interaction such as the exchanges were done by drop off and pick up only at the curb and email was only for urgent matters pertaining to the kids wellbeing only.  Now they're old enough to talk to their dad themselves.  Any email now that is not wanted or necessary is not answered. Period. Ignored.    It starts to shrink and shrink until the oxygen is cut off which is how I kind of like to look at boundary building - preventing ways for the pw/BPD mom to get any attention, engagement, reactions, all that she is after - her game playing, stunts you name it.  When she gets bored or stressed then we know to start bolting down the hatches especially on a full moon!  I'm not joking.    Sh**t still happens but do not ever let her see that she gets to you!  That my friend, takes all that you have, I know.    And btw, I would not bother having meetings with her unless it's for a legal mediation or for that reason.  Good taking a stand about her chaos and drama.  Just try to let it all go.  I know, fun, right? (sigh) I think we deserve a sainthood for that one. 

I agree with Panda39 - utilize this site for info and guidance there is something to help everyone I think and we're always here too!     Maybe suggest to your H to take a look.  I think the topics about children of pw BPD and stages of development is really helpful.   I know your little one is still small at 6 but it takes patience with this little puppet that mom is trying to control.  I've been there with my step kids and eventually they start 'seeing the grey' and not the black and white thinking that mom has.  They start to grow up fast and still it has it's challenges but they start to become their own person eventually... my girl is 14 going on 24... .she is no dummy.  We have a good solid bond and I'm so proud of that despite all the crap with her mother over the years.

Hope that helps, cheers
Klera