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Author Topic: Feeling frustrated  (Read 415 times)
RomanticFool
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« on: August 13, 2017, 03:32:51 PM »

After discussing everything from a Möbius strip to a stool and a Venn diagram on here, I am once again feeling frustrated and wanting to put a bomb under my non existent r/s with the married lover.

I told her tonight that I am tired of getting so little back in return when I have shown her love, understanding and she has full access to the details of my life via FB. It all seems imbalanced and unfair. I know this will most likely be met with silence but I hate this limbo I am in with her.

As I have said so many times before, it would do me a better service to not have her in my life if she does not want to see me. I don't think I can keep a lid on my emotions indefinitely. I have been able to these last few weeks because I have been doing an all encompassing job which has taken my time and energy. However, this work has one more week to go and my mind will be free to start obsessing over her again.

The last time I tried to walk away she attempted suicide (I still don't know the details) and blamed it all on me. I am in a no win situation here and this very damaged woman has got me right where she wants me ie communicating when she feels like it while knowing everything about my life and no commitment whatsoever. I just don't feel I can allow this situation to continue unchecked.  

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babyducks
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2017, 05:51:34 PM »

Hi RF,

You are only going to receive what she is capable of giving.   You can work your tuchus off, and develop mad, grade A, ninja like relationship skills and you are only going to receive what she is capable of giving.   

That may not be enough for you.

Trying to coax, cajole, maneuver or manipulate the relationship to try and get more is still pretty much going to get you what she is capable of giving.    Right now that doesn't seem like a lot.

It seems to me like you have two options,  radical acceptance.    Or release with grace.

Putting a bomb under the non existent relationship seems to me a poor idea.    I'm just saying.   For me when I try to manufacture certainty, it's usually because I am feeling vulnerable and don't like it.   

I've been in what felt like no win situations and felt like I had no options that were palatable to me.    Truth was I had options I just hated all of them.

There were no 'good solve the problem get me what I want options'  there were the lesser of two evils,  not what I want, and hard to live with options.  some times that is all you get.

 And I didn't have internal where with all to identify them, articulate them, or act on them consistently.

which ever direction you choose do you think you will be able to stick with it?   

'ducks


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patientandclear
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« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2017, 02:47:13 AM »

RF--if you do pull away, for goodness' sake, this time, please stay out of this woman's life. The back and forth means what appears on the surface as "decisiveness" is more akin to manipulation. My sense is that, if it fails to elicit the response you want, you'll be back down the road, because you really don't want to be gone, just are trying to change the current limits by thrashing around.

What babyducks said about the best options is right: radical acceptance or truly letting go.
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pearlsw
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"Be kind whenever possible, it is always possible"


« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2017, 03:11:47 AM »

Hi RF,

You are only going to receive what she is capable of giving.   You can work your tuchus off, and develop mad, grade A, ninja like relationship skills and you are only going to receive what she is capable of giving.    

That may not be enough for you.

Trying to coax, cajole, maneuver or manipulate the relationship to try and get more is still pretty much going to get you what she is capable of giving.    Right now that doesn't seem like a lot.

It seems to me like you have two options,  radical acceptance.    Or release with grace.

Putting a bomb under the non existent relationship seems to me a poor idea.    I'm just saying.   For me when I try to manufacture certainty, it's usually because I am feeling vulnerable and don't like it.  

I've been in what felt like no win situations and felt like I had no options that were palatable to me.    Truth was I had options I just hated all of them.

There were no 'good solve the problem get me what I want options'  there were the lesser of two evils,  not what I want, and hard to live with options.  some times that is all you get.

 And I didn't have internal where with all to identify them, articulate them, or act on them consistently.

which ever direction you choose do you think you will be able to stick with it?  

'ducks




I don't quite get what is going on here, in the original post, but babyducks, you have written a brilliant statement that applies to a lot of relationships. Manipulation never gets you want you want when a relationship is lacking. If the other person isn't showing up and giving much to it all the "thrashing" in the world won't get a better response. When someone gives a relationship very little that dynamic is about the best you can hope for. Accept or move on are the options. Agreed.
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Walk on a rainbow trail, walk on a trail of song, and all about you will be beauty. There is a way out of every dark mist, over a rainbow trail. - Navajo Song
RomanticFool
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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2017, 03:23:29 AM »

Hi Babyducks,

Thanks for your response. It certainly isn't enough for me. That is the thing I have been wrestling with for years. You are absolutely correct that coaxing, cajoling or manipulating her in any way does not work. She is only capable of behaving in the way she behaves. I think I am aiming at radical acceptance, but it is hard. God knows, it goes against every instinct that I possess but it seems to be the only way through this. Releasing with grace is impossible. She will never accept that.

Patientandclear, I would also like to point out that when people accuse me of manipulating this woman, it is she who pulls me back in time and again. I have no desire to manipulate but when you love somebody as wholeheartedly as I have loved her, it is very difficult to turn your back on them when they tell you they have tried to take their own life and it is your fault. I have done everything I can to deal with this situation and have arrived at the position of keeping her on my FB and trying to have a dialogue with her. I am about to post a conversation I had with her, so if you could just suspend your judgement for a moment - I post on here these days rather than act on my feelings.
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patientandclear
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« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2017, 09:39:25 AM »

I'll go read the conversation. But when you say "releasing with grace is impossible, she will never allow that," I think you've put your finger on a barrier in your thinking. It isn't her decision. No one can be "pulled in" if they don't come. I say this as a veteran of a couple of skilled pullers to whom I used to respond but later stopped responding to. I had loved both very much, and I still deeply loved the man I post here about when I had to close down that relationship because what we could give each other and what we needed didn't match, and what he could give me was doing me harm.

It's sad because it involves giving up. But it is always possible to release with grace unless you are living in a situation of physical or financial captivity.
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RomanticFool
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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2017, 10:18:22 AM »

... .or if the other person tells me they tried suicide and it's my fault... .

Everything we talk about on here is to do with compassion and empathy. It has been said to me by numerous people that this is a fragile woman, she is not in fact a manipulative, cheating, deceitful liar... .which is what i have suspected her to be at various times throughout the years... .and to be honest, even if she was all of the above, if I think there is a chance she is going to kill herself then I would always wonder if she had actually done it. So I guess you could say, the mind forged manacles keep me hanging on and make it impossible for me to walk away... .
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babyducks
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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2017, 03:41:16 PM »

RF,

In your other thread you've done a nice job of dialing down the high octane.   maybe we can take a deep breath and a step back and look at it here too?

I've been in that place of being afraid of a suicide or an attempt.    And with very real cause.   It's not a good place to be.

Just because she is a fragile woman that doesn't mean you are responsible for her.   You are responsible to do the best you can with your responses and actions.    You are responsible for your behavior.  She is responsible for hers.

Is there a reason you believe it's your fault she tried to end her life?   If I thought I did or said something that destroyed a person's life to the degree they felt there was no hope I would be despondent.    And yet on the flip side of that same coin I have to wonder what could I do or say that was that powerful?   In AA could you force some one to take a drink?   If you literally put a bottle in some one's hand who is responsible for taking that drink?   At best there is mutual responsibility.

Excerpt
It has been said to me by numerous people that this is a fragile woman, she is not in fact a manipulative, cheating, deceitful liar... .which is what i have suspected her to be at various times throughout the years... .

pwBPD have limited executive functioning especially in times of stress that often lead them act impulsively.   they also live with a great deal of pain being the emotional equivalent of third degree burn victims.   while they can cheat, manipulate and lie, (most people can) for pwBPD that often comes from a desperate frantic attempt to get their needs met.

certainly compassion and empathy are important, no one here would say otherwise.   I also believe we need to be aware of our own black and white thinking.   It can't be all of one thing and none of another.   Everything is a balance and a blend.    there might be a day where you can release with grace... .it might not be today.   today the compassionate act might outweigh the release with grace.   it might not be that way in 3 weeks or 3 months or whenever.

it takes time to develop options... .and one way to develop options is to not shut the door on any of them.

'ducks

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What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lives within us.
RomanticFool
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2017, 04:34:32 PM »

Hi ducks,

Excerpt
Is there a reason you believe it's your fault she tried to end her life?

When we were at the height of the seduction phase, we made a pledge to each other and she asked me to buy her a ring, which I did. It was a special kind of ring and unusual, very much to her taste. She was delighted with it. I vowed to always be there for her.

After she told me that she made a suicide attempt, I asked her why she did it and she said because I had turned my back on her and she was alone. That broke my heart to hear that.

It's really quite interesting this because in my view she has betrayed me a thousand times over. I don't mean sexually, but betrayed our pact. When she started drinking again she taunted me and she has given me the ST countless times. Through all of that I berated her and attacked her verbally, but never walked away. That is why I was in such crisis. When she asked me to buy her a ring, that meant the world to us both. That was when we were close and it has steadily deteriorated since then. However, she does have a photo of her wearing the ring on her FB page.

I'm glad you asked me about that because it reinforces that this whole thing isn't just in my head. It really happened.

Excerpt
pwBPD have limited executive functioning especially in times of stress that often lead them act impulsively.   they also live with a great deal of pain being the emotional equivalent of third degree burn victims.   while they can cheat, manipulate and lie, (most people can) for pwBPD that often comes from a desperate frantic attempt to get their needs met.

certainly compassion and empathy are important, no one here would say otherwise.   I also believe we need to be aware of our own black and white thinking.   It can't be all of one thing and none of another.   Everything is a balance and a blend.    there might be a day where you can release with grace... .it might not be today.   today the compassionate act might outweigh the release with grace.   it might not be that way in 3 weeks or 3 months or whenever.

it takes time to develop options... .and one way to develop options is to not shut the door on any of them.

I understand everything you have said here but we made a pact. She invoked it when she tried to kill herself. I don't feel i can ever turn my back on her again.

In fact, when she is in a better place, I intend to discuss this whole issue with her. I want to ask her if the ring means the same thing to her now. I also want to ask her about the suicide attempt. We have never discussed it. I have a vision of her lying there with my ring. I was very self aware when I called myself Romantic Fool... .
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