Separated from my husband. Unsure where to go next.

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all.  I'm a 39 yo F whose husband (40) was diagnosed with BPD in March or April.  He was seeing a therapist for a while (maybe 3-4 weeks) and for various reasons quit going.  Things have been awful for the last 2 years, to the point that one night I told him I wasn't sure if we would make it to our 4th year of marriage.  He has threatened me with ending our marriage more times than I can count, to the point that it's lost its sting (mostly).  This was the first time I was the one making the assertion, not out of anger, but out of defeat.  When he's not in his fit of rage or completely shut down emotionally he is an amazing partner.  I'm sure that sentiment has been bandied about a lot on these boards. 

I am at such a loss right now.  About 3 1/2 weeks ago I found a letter on his computer addressed to another woman declaring his love and support for her.  This is a woman who works for him who is going through a difficult time, kicking an opioid addiction and trying to regain custody of her daughters.  We had fought the night before and he said we were done.  This time it felt real - it wasn't in the midst of a fight or a rage.  I went into his computer to delete some intimate photos and a video.  I found a file labeled with her name.   I resisted the urge to open it, rationalizing that it had something to do with her rehab.  But not for long.  I texted him immediately after reading the letter and told him not to bother coming home.  To make this long story shorter, turns out he never sent the letter.  He never expressed any of these feelings to this woman.  He never acted on them in any way other than the letters (the letter referenced 2 handwritten letters, never sent; he threw them away).  I believe him.  I grilled him hard and even asked questions I already knew the answers to.  He had no reason to lie to me, we were done and he felt he owed me an explanation.  In his words he felt awful.  He said that the depressive funk he had been in the previous month was because he was angry at himself for allowing himself to get to that point.  I don't know what to make of that. 

I have a hard time kicking him to the curb because, unfortunately, I can relate to the feelings of inadequacy and know that when things get as bad as they were between us it's easy to grasp at any straw of kindness or attention that comes your way.  We have been married twice now.  We married back in 2007 and divorced in 2010 (11?).  We were remarried in 2014.  The first time things were bad, he said I made him miserable and he wanted a divorce.  We had a cruise planned for the two of us and I told him I was going alone.  While on the trip I met a cute guy on the beach in Mexico and started  a flirtation that lasted the last couple of days of the cruise.  Long story short, I kissed said guy while I was still married.  I started the trip with the intention of doing some soul-searching and ended the trip feeling unworthy to continue the marriage. And this time around, I spent an entire day fantasizing about seducing another man.  Not for the sex, but for the power that came with the seduction.  I never actually fantasized about the sex, just the approach and command over my own desires.  (Sex has been our biggest argument and because of the requirements he has imposed I have been feeling unfulfilled and used for the last year.  I often tell him I'm just a hole for him to masturbate into.). My point being, I've been no saint either.  And, as much as I hate this, I understand how someone can get to that point.

We've been separated for about 3.5 weeks now.  He is becoming more aware of the problems he has.  Up to this point, and actually to this day, I have known more about his illness than he has.  I was the one who actually suggested he ask his doctor if BPD was an appropriate fit.  He had been diagnosed with  bipolar disorder and given meds.  In researching bipolar, I ran acrosss an article about BPD vs Bipolar.  He ticks off just about every item in the BPD checklist.  Bipolar doesn't really seem to fit his behaviors, so I've focused more in BPD.  We've had many discussions and both of us are keeping the door open in our relationship for the time being.  I am encouraged to see some awareness on his part of the mood swings and inappropriate emotional responses he's had recently.  I asked him to clarify and go more in depth into a response he gave me and I saw the downward spiral.  He later acknowledged that it wasn't an appropriate response and that for that reason he needs to get back into therapy.

 He's throwing crumbs out, but I'm not picking them up.  I refuse to get my hopes up, refuse to even contemplate moving forward with repairing our relationship until he can tell me whether or not he has feelings for this other woman.  And from there, I'm unwilling to work on our relationship until he works on his issues. I'm not ok with him treating me the way he has in the past.  He's capable of better.  I've seen it.  But I'm not willing to put myself back out there until I see concentrated effort on his part. 

I'm not sure exactly what response I'm looking for from this post, if any.  I was feeling very alone and isolated tonight.  It has been somewhat therapeutic writing this all out.  I haven't journaled for about 2 weeks.  Hopefully by reaching out here I am able to find some support and compassion that I can't get from friends and family.  Not that my friends and family aren't being supportive, but there's no way they can have any idea what I've been through dealing with this disease.  It would be nice to have some support from others who have been there and know what I'm going through.

Sorry for any typos or grammatical errors.  I'm typing this out in my phone.

[Babyjitterbug]

Hi all.  I'm a 39 yo F whose husband (40) was diagnosed with BPD in March or April.  He was seeing a therapist for a while (maybe 3-4 weeks) and for various reasons quit going.  Things have been awful for the last 2 years, to the point that one night I told him I wasn't sure if we would make it to our 4th year of marriage.  He has threatened me with ending our marriage more times than I can count, to the point that it's lost its sting (mostly).  This was the first time I was the one making the assertion, not out of anger, but out of defeat.  When he's not in his fit of rage or completely shut down emotionally he is an amazing partner.  I'm sure that sentiment has been bandied about a lot on these boards. 

I am at such a loss right now.  About 3 1/2 weeks ago I found a letter on his computer addressed to another woman declaring his love and support for her.  This is a woman who works for him who is going through a difficult time, kicking an opioid addiction and trying to regain custody of her daughters.  We had fought the night before and he said we were done.  This time it felt real - it wasn't in the midst of a fight or a rage.  I went into his computer to delete some intimate photos and a video.  I found a file labeled with her name.   I resisted the urge to open it, rationalizing that it had something to do with her rehab.  But not for long.  I texted him immediately after reading the letter and told him not to bother coming home.  To make this long story shorter, turns out he never sent the letter.  He never expressed any of these feelings to this woman.  He never acted on them in any way other than the letters (the letter referenced 2 handwritten letters, never sent; he threw them away).  I believe him.  I grilled him hard and even asked questions I already knew the answers to.  He had no reason to lie to me, we were done and he felt he owed me an explanation.  In his words he felt awful.  He said that the depressive funk he had been in the previous month was because he was angry at himself for allowing himself to get to that point.  I don't know what to make of that. 

I have a hard time kicking him to the curb because, unfortunately, I can relate to the feelings of inadequacy and know that when things get as bad as they were between us it's easy to grasp at any straw of kindness or attention that comes your way.  We have been married twice now.  We married back in 2007 and divorced in 2010 (11?).  We were remarried in 2014.  The first time things were bad, he said I made him miserable and he wanted a divorce.  We had a cruise planned for the two of us and I told him I was going alone.  While on the trip I met a cute guy on the beach in Mexico and started  a flirtation that lasted the last couple of days of the cruise.  Long story short, I kissed said guy while I was still married.  I started the trip with the intention of doing some soul-searching and ended the trip feeling unworthy to continue the marriage. And this time around, I spent an entire day fantasizing about seducing another man.  Not for the sex, but for the power that came with the seduction.  I never actually fantasized about the sex, just the approach and command over my own desires.  (Sex has been our biggest argument and because of the requirements he has imposed I have been feeling unfulfilled and used for the last year.  I often tell him I'm just a hole for him to masturbate into.). My point being, I've been no saint either.  And, as much as I hate this, I understand how someone can get to that point.

We've been separated for about 3.5 weeks now.  He is becoming more aware of the problems he has.  Up to this point, and actually to this day, I have known more about his illness than he has.  I was the one who actually suggested he ask his doctor if BPD was an appropriate fit.  He had been diagnosed with  bipolar disorder and given meds.  In researching bipolar, I ran acrosss an article about BPD vs Bipolar.  He ticks off just about every item in the BPD checklist.  Bipolar doesn't really seem to fit his behaviors, so I've focused more in BPD.  We've had many discussions and both of us are keeping the door open in our relationship for the time being.  I am encouraged to see some awareness on his part of the mood swings and inappropriate emotional responses he's had recently.  I asked him to clarify and go more in depth into a response he gave me and I saw the downward spiral.  He later acknowledged that it wasn't an appropriate response and that for that reason he needs to get back into therapy.

 He's throwing crumbs out, but I'm not picking them up.  I refuse to get my hopes up, refuse to even contemplate moving forward with repairing our relationship until he can tell me whether or not he has feelings for this other woman.  And from there, I'm unwilling to work on our relationship until he works on his issues. I'm not ok with him treating me the way he has in the past.  He's capable of better.  I've seen it.  But I'm not willing to put myself back out there until I see concentrated effort on his part. 

I'm not sure exactly what response I'm looking for from this post, if any.  I was feeling very alone and isolated tonight.  It has been somewhat therapeutic writing this all out.  I haven't journaled for about 2 weeks.  Hopefully by reaching out here I am able to find some support and compassion that I can't get from friends and family.  Not that my friends and family aren't being supportive, but there's no way they can have any idea what I've been through dealing with this disease.  It would be nice to have some support from others who have been there and know what I'm going through.

Sorry for any typos or grammatical errors.  I'm typing this out in my phone.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi Babyjitterbug, I can certainly relate to not having anyone in my immediate life who can relate to what it is like dealing with this illness. It is tough beyond belief! I have gone back and forth for awhile too over whether my partner is bipolar or has BPD. I have settled on him likely having both, and perhaps also ADHD. He's very high functioning, which also makes it confusing. Who knows. It's all hard whatever this, that I know. And I have decided that I really don't care anymore about folks in his life that want to deny it. I know what I have seen and experienced with him and what my truth is. I know something is "off" and that I have been put through the wringer.

I wasn't sure... .Do you feel like you are able to get back into this relationship or are you definitely staying out or are you still deciding?

I can really relate to this: "He has threatened me with ending our marriage more times than I can count, to the point that it's lost its sting (mostly)." It nearly destroyed me at one point, the sheer number of breakups, and the intense trauma, but I have managed to get to the other side and it's amazing how what was once one of my biggest fears in life... .Well, I can't stand break ups, the normal ones I had before this were very hard on me, but this... .It's like I went through trauma and got to the other side. The hard part, as you know, is wondering if all words have lost their meaning. Sigh.

If he really did have strong feelings for this person, perhaps he needs some time and space to work it out and get her out of his system. It's hard to know how much time or how that looks though, huh? Has he given you any sense of how he will do this? Get over that and just focus on the two of you I mean. I hope you are both able to get through this and have what you want together or apart.

[amusement park]

I am currently separated from my undiagnosed BPD wife and we haven't communicated for over a month. I well know about all the I love you's and I hate you's. If she decides to come back, I have set some boundaries for myself. She will have to decide if she will seek extensive therapy to see if she has BPD and continue therapy to prove she wants to become a better person. If she declines that, a divorce will be her other option. I have read extensively on these message boards. They have been a tremendous help and I believe I am strong enough to stay in this relationship if she so chooses.

[Babyjitterbug]

Thank you both for your responses.  I didn't realize how afraid I was that I would go unheard or that my first post was too lengthy and off-putting.  I almost cried reading both of your responses. 

pearlsw, I didn't make it clear in my post what my intentions are, I think because its hard for me to admit to what I want due to EVERYTHING he has put me through for the last 10 years.  I would love to get back into the relationship provided he gets the help he needs and shows significant progress.

"He's very high functioning, which also makes it confusing."  I can relate!  My husband has owned his own business for the last 12-15 years.  And so often, he's "normal."  I've figured out 3 things for sure that will trigger him.  And he rarely, if ever, shows anyone the side of him that I see.  Luckily, no one has denied that there is anything going on with him.  I have the support of my family, but because they've never lived it, because BPD is so disordered and incomprehensible to a non, they don't know how to help.  My mom likes to play the "well he should do xyz, he should understand abc."  I had to put a stop to that.  Don't tell me what he "should" do, I'm not stupid, I know what he "should" do.  Support me and show me love, don't tear him down.  Granted, my family didn't know about his Dx until I found the letter.  My husband didn't want anyone to know, but when I found the letter I thought we were done and felt no loyalty to him anymore and I told all of my family and two of my close friends.  They've been awesome. Even as angry with him as they are, they think it was unfortunate for him to have held this back.  None of them would have judged him, but rather treated him with compassion and love.


"If he really did have strong feelings for this person, perhaps he needs some time and space to work it out and get her out of his system. It's hard to know how much time or how that looks though, huh? Has he given you any sense of how he will do this?"  He has said that he needs to get back into therapy.  Other than that, no.  He hasn't given me any indication.  It's hard to get anything out of him.  When I told him I was frustrated because I didn't know what was going on in his head, he replied that he didn't know what was going on in his head.  This was mostly regarding whether or not he wanted to try to mend on our relationship and what steps to take to do so.

He believes he knows what's going on with his feelings, but I don't think he trusts himself.  I think he feels like he needs confirmation that what he's feeling/thinking is "ok".  He doesn't want to tell me what he thinks until he's 100% certain that its right, and I agree.  I can't hear that he doesn't love her only to find out 2 weeks later that its not true.  I can't handle that.  I can barely handle what I'm going through now.

I, possibly naively, believe that his feelings weren't true feelings of love.  He admitted at one point that he thinks he grasped on to a letter she sent him from rehab thanking him for his support and read more into it than was there.  I'm not saying that there wasn't an attraction there, but based on the wording of the letter I found and having known him these last 10+ years, that the letter made him feel needed and that he was playing the hero.  It fed his need to be Superman and save the day.  I am fairly well adjusted and stable emotionally and physically, she is a hot mess that he can "fix" and then mold to what he wants because she will be eternally grateful to him.  He can no longer mold me.  I've started fighting back and standing up for myself, insisting that I be treated better.

Ugh.  I've edited this response innumerable times trying to stop the verbal barrage, but I've got so much built up that it just keeps pouring out.  Sorry.

[Babyjitterbug]

I am currently separated from my undiagnosed BPD wife and we haven't communicated for over a month. I well know about all the I love you's and I hate you's. If she decides to come back, I have set some boundaries for myself. She will have to decide if she will seek extensive therapy to see if she has BPD and continue therapy to prove she wants to become a better person. If she declines that, a divorce will be her other option. I have read extensively on these message boards. They have been a tremendous help and I believe I am strong enough to stay in this relationship if she so chooses.

I wish you the strength to maintain your boundaries and the hope that things work out for you in the way you wish them to.  You have succinctly summarized what I took 8,000 lines to try to convey.   It's nice to see I'm not alone in wanting to maintain a relationship. 

Thank you for your support.

[livednlearned]

He can no longer mold me.  I've started fighting back and standing up for myself, insisting that I be treated better.

That's a great start. You deserve to be treated well, and in BPD relationships, this stance tends to be something that is essential.

How do you communicate this to him?

Communicating with someone who suffers from BPD is not intuitive, in my experience. I wonder if he interpreted your self-care as a form of abandonment (that could echo family of origin dynamics responsible for shaping push/pull behaviors).

[Babyjitterbug]

How do you communicate this to him?

Probably not very well.  I'm not sure how to go about it.  I have flat out told him that I deserve to be treated better, and in his calm moments he agrees.  But the fighting back, the not taking the abuse... .that doesn't always go over well.  I have found my best course of action is often gray rocking, giving him nothing to react to and not reacting to his attempts to provoke me.  I started going to therapy about 6 weeks ago in an attempt to better myself and potentially learn how to better communicate with him, to do what I could to improve our relationship.  But thus far, I feel it has been ineffective overall.  I don't know if I need to look for a new therapist, or if I just need to give it more time.  I'm opting for the latter at this point.  I have also ordered 3 books on BPD and relationships with a pwBPD.  I'm trying to arm myself with all the knowledge I can in the hopes that I can gain some compassion and shed a little of this frustration.  Any advice, input, and real-life experience would be a blessing.

I once told him when he was getting worked up that I wasn't being mean or difficult, that I was standing up for myself because no one else in the relationship was going to.  In this particular argument he didn't really have a leg to stand on and he knew it.  I also ended that particular argument by essentially walking away.  I told him what I needed, that by his own admission I had done nothing wrong, and that if he continued to fight with me I was going to take our daughter and go to my parents' house. His response was that he was going to leave.  I said ok and left the room.  After about 30 minutes I went back into the kitchen and asked if he had found a place to go.  He hadn't, of course, but had had enough time to calm down and the fight was over in record time.

As for the end of your post, I'm still fairly new to this world and the jargon you used at the end flew over my head, so I'm not quite sure how to respond to that.

[pearlsw]

Hi Babyjitterbug, Thanks for the updates/clarifications. I think I get your story better now! I can relate to so much of what you say! I am having to approach this with only the support from this site. Counseling is not an option. I am in a foreign country and it is expensive. But you/me/we can do a lot. I think one thing I would consider is basically throwing out all you think you know you about relationships and starting from there. If he has BPD he is operating in the world completely differently. If you learn about this concept of JADE-ing you see mentioned on this board a lot it will help you rethink the way you frame this - how you approach it. It is a very liberating concept. Logical reasoning is not your friend with someone who is wired to be so emotionally sensitive. I think it is about listening to the feelings behind what they are saying, doing a lot of depersonalizing of their behavior, and validating their feelings.

I'm no expert in this, just learning along with you, but there is a lot of info to the right of the boards here, many things to try. I also look up these concepts and find videos about them on YouTube to help reinforce them. It takes a bit of daily study to reinforce/refresh the concepts. I intend to memorize as many as possible with time to give me mental structure/clarity/a built in frame of reference/my own internal support system. I try not to let things I read scare me off from all this. I try to read carefully and with an improvement mind frame. At the least, I take this as an opportunity to improve communication skills and understanding of others whatever happens with this relationship. I find by doing that I feel more hopeful and like this is an investment in myself and my life too.

All we can really do is alter our approach to these issues I try to stay clear about that. I can't change him and I try to embrace that as liberating instead of fear inducing. No need to worry about what I have no control over. I've noticed that since I've been visiting this site I've had a few small successes. I've managed to help my partner not slide into dark phases at last twice that I can think of. It takes work and effort. Where in the past I would have preferred to withdraw and be away from him when he does something that makes me upset, I find that if I do the opposite of that, and engage him and give him a connection it can head off some of his more severe emotional dysregulation and even gives him a chance to have more balanced responses. Maybe it is like a martial art! Taking the energy someone is pushing towards you and pushing it back inside of them... .but not pushing them over!  

I've done the same thing. Tell him "I deserve to be treated better" and "in his calm moments he agrees". Exactly! I could not resist saying these things just as you do, felt I had to say them. One thing I been trying to do on this, because I am aware of his emotional sensitivities and I don't want him to feel hopeless or broken about it, is I always bring us back to being a team. I let the illness be something I sort of verbally pull outside of him and we both look at and even marvel at. I am teaching him a lot about looking at his own thoughts and finding ways to self soothe. I notice now he comes to me when he needs support with this. Last night I could see he was worrying and stressing so I took the time to re-teach him about how to not worry so much. It's a trick I invented myself as a kid, but I think it may have been turned into a therapy by professionals treating anxiety. I just stumbled across it as a personal survival strategy as a kid. If my brain is going to worry, I just put something else in there to "worry" about that does no damage to me. I do this most often at bedtime. I just go over and over a t.v. show and the characters and plot, etc.  I find it is very important to help support/encourage his stress management. And repeat, repeat, repeat.

I also tell him I can even relate, though it is different (much shorter/less often/not damaging) because of having experienced PMS. I know that sounds odd, but it is a short period of time when my brain is foggy, and my brain gives me false messages and I can't really control my mood 100%. I think it makes him feel good when I don't frame this as "he's messed up" and "I'm okay" because that just tears him down more. I tell him we all have emotions, his are just a bit more sensitive than is typical and we are trying to acknowledge that and understand it to help make our life better. I'm working on it. In fact, I haven't asked him to do one bit of work on these issues yet because I am just working on my own clarity with it, and I have still seen results.

Anyway, I don't necessarily expect him to stay in a mode where he sees/acknowledges how horrible any of this makes me feel. He will slip out of this awareness from time to time, not always be able to see/show he cares about/understands my feelings, but maybe with time he will fill this piece up to a higher level at least, or maybe it will be like a rainwater collector that goes up and down. Who knows. Visualizing these things as natural processes helps me take them less personally.

He tends to skip a lot of the little social cues that women (more often) are socialized to do by showing we are listening and understanding what the other person is saying. But when he does or says good things I give him a lot of encouragement. I constantly acknowledge the things he brings to the relationship and express a lot of gratitude. I try to create a strong feeling of love and intimacy so we can stay connected through all this. I find that the more I can do to keep a strong bond and connection between us, the shorter the storms can be. If I break off into a "I"m right/He's wrong" dichotomy it just creates two opposing sides and it furthers the breakdown. I can't avoid all the storms, but I am hoping that I can reduce them a bit, that is my immediate goal. I don't think love conquers all, but I do believe that maintaining it and making it very visible and naming it is very important. It also cuts down on my own anger/disappointment/frustration/resentment and feeling like I'm getting the short end of the stick. If I can keep this loving than it makes more sense to me why I am doing all this. I prefer us to both feel we have a loving relationship and letting him express his love in healthy ways. I try to make a lot of jokes and have taught him, by example, to be a bit silly. I like to make silly funny songs, and he is now singing them too. I try to have a strong ratio of good times to the bad times by doing such free/fun/fast/easy stuff.

I have other problems with this that I am still figuring out. I find I hesitate in wanting to tell him things because he tends to store things up and then twist things into the strangest insults he can invent to have something to be able to toss at me during fights. His emotional sensitivities read this as me withholding from him, but I am just trying to give him less weapons to strike with out of anger. I also notice that when he is in a white phase and telling me he loves me I tend to say "sometimes" instead of just "me too" or "thank you". That's how I feel, but I've gotta stop saying that, even as a "joke", and find a better, more direct way of saying it back and meaning it. When someone turns your relationship off and on like a light switch it hurts and it does make it hard to rely on their words. He insists he "always loves me" and "never stops" even when he speaks in a mean/cruel way. I say that he shouldn't say such terrible things when he argues then. Hopefully I can find a way to reframe this and find a better way to deal what is breaking down on this point. I can already see him picking up good habits and expressing how he feels rather than just attack. Step by step!

It is great you are doing your own self-care and finding your own center and truth with this. It helps so much when the storms hit. I need to do much more of this too! I watch a lot of comedy videos to make sure no day goes by where I am not laughing and smiling even if just a little bit. I await more of your great self care tips! I see you are already off to a great start with learning about how to manage all this. Wishing you peace.

p.s. Hugs for your (almost) tiny tears! You are supported and understood! Thanks for giving me the chance too to process this stuff! It's big!

[livednlearned]

Probably not very well.

Be gentle with yourself  

It's great that you have ordered books. I found books were super helpful.

Therapists, in my experience, are excellent at focusing on you. Most of us start off therapy wanting to talk about our partner and what he or she is doing, and therapists tend to try and bring things back to focus on you.

Books and friends here can really help explain the communication skills while you get support for your mental well-being from a therapist. It's a good combo.

I once told him when he was getting worked up that I wasn't being mean or difficult, that I was standing up for myself because no one else in the relationship was going to.  In this particular argument he didn't really have a leg to stand on and he knew it.  I also ended that particular argument by essentially walking away.  I told him what I needed, that by his own admission I had done nothing wrong, and that if he continued to fight with me I was going to take our daughter and go to my parents' house. His response was that he was going to leave.  I said ok and left the room.  After about 30 minutes I went back into the kitchen and asked if he had found a place to go.  He hadn't, of course, but had had enough time to calm down and the fight was over in record time.

It sounds like you set a boundary, and it had an effect.   That's great!

Your boundary, if I'm reading it correctly, is that you will not be yelled at. If you are, you will walk away and remove your daughter, going to your parents so you and your partner have some time to cool off.

If he is BPD, the fear of you leaving will be pretty intense. Some partners will have this conversation once, to let their loved one know what the rules of engagement are when emotions start to intensify. They will even go so far as to say, "I will reach out to you by ______, and if it feels like we are both cooled off, I'll communicate that to you."

People with BPD tend to self-sabotage themselves and the relationship when they're feeling abandoned. They also don't do well with shame or blame. Their protective shells come up and nothing will get through.

A book that helped me with these skills is High Conflict Couple by Alan Fruzetti. It's written for couples where both have some kind of PD, but I found that during arguments, things kind of escalated and I felt cornered, making me think I had to be high-conflict in order to protect and defend myself.