my grandson's father ((my son) is unaware of dil various abuses to their kids

[Depression = 72% of members]

 My grandsons (aged 8 and 12) are consistently being abused by their mother (my dil) whenever dad is not at home! I have said they need to tell dad. They are too afraid of her to tell. This weekend, she screamed at the older brother "The only reason you go to your grandma's house (me) is to get out of working here! Now go clean up you and brother's room... .and you have to only keep Legos and Matchbox cars ... .all your other toys I am giving or throwing away!

Dad was not home.

Then mom called a friend of hers over, so she also could scream at the boy!

He made fists, with his arms to his sides. Mom said "Go ahead and hit me. I dare you!"

Anybody?Who can help this and how?I am at wits end with her, and feel sick about the boy.

I know she is sick... .but anough is enough!

Grandmag 

[grandmag]

 My grandsons (aged 8 and 12) are consistently being abused by their mother (my dil) whenever dad is not at home! I have said they need to tell dad. They are too afraid of her to tell. This weekend, she screamed at the older brother "The only reason you go to your grandma's house (me) is to get out of working here! Now go clean up you and brother's room... .and you have to only keep Legos and Matchbox cars ... .all your other toys I am giving or throwing away!

Dad was not home.

Then mom called a friend of hers over, so she also could scream at the boy!

He made fists, with his arms to his sides. Mom said "Go ahead and hit me. I dare you!"

Anybody?Who can help this and how?I am at wits end with her, and feel sick about the boy.

I know she is sick... .but anough is enough!

Grandmag 

[Notwendy]

Verbal abuse is serious but difficult to prove. My BPD mother was verbally abusive, but other adults ( especially those connected to her) would not ever imagine it, as we were cared for in other ways- had good schooling, nice clothes. Also because it happened behind closed doors and my mother was charming to others.

I wish I had had a grandparent near me who believed me. My father's parents lived far from me. We used to spend summers with my father's family. They didn't like my mother but we didn't discuss her. It was great to have time with them without having to deal with the issues we had in our own family.

I have relatives on my mother's side who didn't acknowledge how she treated me, but the few incidents they did see didn't seem to set off any alarms with them.  The preferred denial. So did my father. I suspect he knew. As a teen, she did throw something at me and he knew about that, but since I was not seriously hurt, there were no consequences.

Drama triangle is something to consider. One thing said against mom will send mom to victim mode, dad will step in to rescue her. The kids may be genuinely scared of this as they may have tried to say something and either got blamed for it or realized it doesn't really do any good for them. While you are focused on the verbal abuse from mom being bad for them- what your son is doing is bad for them too. He is invalidating them, and not stepping in to protect them. IMHO, the true victims in these issues are children and the elderly. But IMHO, the pwBPD takes victim perspective in these dynamics.


These could have been my mother's words "The only reason you go to your grandma's house (me) is to get out of working here! Now go clean up you and brother's room... .and you have to only keep Legos and Matchbox cars ... .all your other toys I am giving or throwing away!"

Notice how she attributes an evil motive to your grandchild's wanting to see you. Even my baby book has these statements- as if somehow a baby throws up on purpose, but she will tell a story about how I threw up on her floor "just to get her". If I left the house and remembered I left a toy out, I would panic as she would confiscate it to punish me. She also threatens to throw out things we care about and this included my father. He collected some things as a hobby and she would threaten to throw them out too.

I know it is heartbreaking to see your grandchildren be treated like this. But what to do? My parents denied that my mother ever treated us like this, and also blamed me for her behavior. For the most part, we kids believed it- children believe what their parents tell them. My parents held it together when they visited my children. However when my father got ill at the end of his life, and I was staying with them alone to help out, I saw this from a different perspective. She was verbally abusive to me, and to him. Ironically, I had learned to accept her behavior towards me. But when she did this to my father in his elder years, I was outraged. I naively stepped in to intervene- which put me on the drama triangle. Mom went into victim mode, my father stepped in to rescue her. Not only had he denied how she treated her children, he also denied how she treated him. I called social services to see what I could do and so long as he had the capacity to make decisions, I could do nothing.

It was then that I understood how my grandparents on my father's side must have felt. They loved us. But if they said anything - then they might not see us at all as they knew my father would take up for my mother. So - they got us as much as they could. These summers were a highlight in our lives. I am still close to my cousins and my kids know their cousins. I personally believe that the unconditional love from my father's relatives contributed much to our resiliency.

I stand for protecting the children no matter what. If you see signs of physical abuse, then I would not hesitate to call protective services. I do not know the laws for verbal abuse. You can call them, but also know that making a report will result in them investigating. They won't reveal who called, but if their parents have a clue it is you, and their is no proof of abuse, then they may paint you black and out of their lives. Verbal abuse is recognized as abuse, but it is hard to legally prove. The choice is yours, but be ready for the possible consequences.

The other choice is to remain in their lives as a loving adult. This can go a long way. This is sadly a tough situation. But it isn't just your DIL - your son is just as responsible. I'd be willing to bet he's seen enough to know.Th