worst thing my borderline Mom has done

[Mochas mom]

I am 60 years old and I have spent most of my adult life trying to cope with my borderline mother. She has hurt me many times before but this is the worst! I recent shared with her (stupid of me, I know) that I was concerned about my adult daughter who is having severe anxiety and second thoughts about upcoming marriage. My daughter was previously involved in a 7 year relationship in which her boyfriend ultimately came out as gay. When I confided in my mother that I thought my daughters anxiety stemmed from this relationship, my mother told me “no, I started much earlier than that”. When I pressed her for more information she told me that my daughter told her she was sexually “violated” as a young child by a member of our family. I insisted my mom tell me who this person was, she told me it was my husband! I know this is not true and discussed it with my daughter who is now not speaking to my mother. This is unforgivable, but I feel guilty because my mom is 86 years old an living in an assisted living home. How do I handle this?

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Mochas mom! 

Welcome to our online family! I am sorry for this awful comment by your mom that drove you here though. That was very thoughtless and unkind of her!   Is it possible that she has dementia or anything that would contribute to this lie she shared? Is this something that you've seen before?

Anyone approaching marriage will feel anxiety; it is a normal part of the process. However, has your D considered seeing a T, individually, to see if she can get some help to allow her to explore why she may be feeling so anxious?

It may be that you have to stay away from discussing anything about your daughter with your mom right now if you wish to decrease the tension and stress that you are bound to feel around her. This can be a way of setting up a healthy boundary with your mom.

Setting Boundaries and Setting Limits

What types of things have you been able to do to help you in dealing with your mom? How did you come to find out that she may have BPD?

 
Wools

[Notwendy]

Hi Mochas mom-

Ugh- what a horrible thing to say. I too struggle with the fact that my mother is elderly and also difficult to deal with. She's said some awful things too.

I have an interesting idea about what your mother said. Consider the concept of projection. What someone says about someone may say more about them.

I have no proof but I suspect my mother may have been molested as a teen or young child. There are things she has said that make me suspect this. If she said something like what your mother said, I would be as angry as you are. However, I would wonder if she was relating her own story rather than yours. Not necessarily the same relationships ( I don't think my grandfather was the one who did it- but maybe a neighbor or other relative to her) but a similar event.

People with BPD tend to project their own bad feelings on to others. That doesn't make it right, and you don't have to accept it. My mother has said some horrible things to me and I don't think it is OK. However, I have learned to not take them personally because, they aren't true and I think they reflect her own thinking. Sometimes they can be really strange things. I don't think my mother is demented, but people with BPD tend to think their feelings are facts.

[Basenji]

I have no proof but I suspect my mother may have been molested as a teen or young child.

Also possible (I would personally propose far more likely) that the borderline herself is the abuser (of her children) and is transferring that guilt onto the very children she has herself abused by implying they failed to protect their own child (from their very husband).

Borderlines cannot be trusted with private or intimate or any information which will feed their power trip.

Continuing to engage in these games with your mother does not help your child (whose own anxiety may be reflexive).

Redemptive theories may or may not be helpful.

[Sunfl0wer]

Not sure how your mom is but I was raised by a foster mom who had uBPD.
Seems the best course of action was to not discuss matters with her at all.  Keep conversations on a superficial level, light, and RA (radically accept) that there will never be a time for me to lean on her for support or expect any kind of acceptance about things. 

Sometimes I think the best way to cope is to set the bar so darn low that just getting through 10 mins of interactions without someone being triggered on something can feel impressive vs feeling stressful.

Also your mom is 86, living in an ALF, many at this age may also have dementia, further complicating their ability to discern things, speak in a reality based way, hold onto inhibitions.  You do not say if your mom has any dementia, but just putting it out there in case she does.  Because if so, her ability to rationalize may be more diminished than in years past.

[Notwendy]

My general guide about confiding in my mother is to only tell her things that I wouldn't care were on the evening news. Confiding in her doesn't lead to validation or empathy for my point of view and she doesn't keep a confidence.

She likes to collect emotional information on people. When I have confided in her, she brings it up when she is dysregulated.

For me, it's better to just not discuss personal things with her.

I agree with Sunflower- 10 min without an issue is a good thing.

[madeline7]

I am your age and have an uBPDm in an independent living set up. About a year ago when she was in one of her rages and fell, she was out of control in the ER. The DR. took me aside and asked if she had dementia. I told her no, she has a personality disorder. The Dr. said sometimes those closest are not able to see dementia. I insisted she had a personality disorder. The Dr. went to my Mom and set some limits for what had to be done in the ER. "Miraculously, my Mom followed the Dr.'s orders so that she could be checked out and discharged. The Dr. then realized she did not have dementia, but was extremely disordered and manipulative. The Dr. took me aside and said I am so sorry you have to deal with this. Yes, I agree with the other posters that you should look into the possibility that your Mom is cognitively impaired, and I concur with sharing only superficial things about your life. I still "forget" when my Mom is behaving and occasionally overshare, it is so hard to maintain those boundaries, and so very exhausting to deal with these behaviors, esp. at a time when we ourselves are getting older. I remember reading an article when I was approaching 50 that said it was such a great decade since we are launching our children and sadly, getting to an age when our elderly parents are no longer around, and we are free to focus on ourselves. Here we are, 60 year old women with grown children, still figuring out how to deal with a difficult (and sometimes I feel impossible) situation. It is exhausting. I find the best way for me to deal with this is to only talk to a few select individuals who truly understand and are supportive, am in counseling, be diligent in staying positive (this is the hardest for me), and strive to set healthy boundaries (the second hardest thing for me) I wish you peace.

[AskingWhy]

Mochas Mom, I hope you find support here as many of us have had BPD family members.

I agree that dementia may be a part of your mother's comments.  If she truly is BPD, that complicates the matter. 

From my experience, BPD mothers want to manufacture drama to cause chaos in the lives of their family.  Not only do they distort the reality of people's motives and actions, they spread lies to cause upset within the family, pitting one member against the others.

[catinahat]

Hi Mochas Mom and fellow newbie

It's an awful situation and I really hope you find some of the comments helpful. I also have a BPD mom who has said and done some terrible things over the years (I'm 42 so no doubt more to come).

Firstly, my suggestion is to get rid of the guilt. You didn't create this situation and are doing what you can to minimise the harm.   

Secondly, I do completely agree with Notwendy, Basenji and Sunfl0wer. In my experience, the only information suitable to give my BPD mom is generic good news. Nothing intimate, negative or revealing. However, I have maintained this policy for over 10 years and the result has been that my mom has manufactured a series of dramatic events and written about them to me and other people and spread the lies around. She has also extrapolated massively from events in my childhood (for example, I got drunk at a party once when I was a teenager so now she thinks I'm an alcoholic). It's obviously easier to deal with lies and dreamt up dramas, but it is still upsetting. So yes, I would definitely recommend it, but it's no magic wand against the negative interference.

I also really identify with Notwendy's comment that "She likes to collect emotional information on people". That is exactly what my mom does. She uses that information to attack or undermine people months or years later. She is ridiculously good at spotting people's emotional weak spots and manipulating them to dominate them or cause pain.

With the comments about potential projection and transference - you have probably spent years trying to disentangle the various processes at work in your moms behaviour. It's tough. Consistent inconsistency?

Have you talked to your mom at all about this issue? As Madeline7 describes, people with BPD can abide by rules if they want to, and if you lay down some rules (no lies about my husband, for example) and explain the penalty for breaking the rules (less motivation to call or visit) it may give you a reprieve for a little while, or it may have no effect but you may feel stronger for setting out your boundaries.   

[Notwendy]

She is ridiculously good at spotting people's emotional weak spots and manipulating them to dominate them or cause pain.


Mine is a master. One example is that we were at a family gathering. One person there has a cool, introverted demeanor. We get along fine,  but we are not warm and bubbly with each other.

Later my mother asked. " I noticed that not a lot of interaction went on between you and so and so- is anything wrong between you?" I looked at her confused at the idea. Then she said " It's ok you can tell your Mommy". She uses that term when she is being manipulative- as if to suggest that it is OK to confide in her. Mommy? Are you kidding me?

I said "no there is nothing going on -we are fine ". There were a lot of people there and everyone was busy talking to people. I didn't even notice who was talking to each other more or less. I don't even think like that. If two people aren't getting along, it's not my business.