Should I let my EX see her son?

[MovingOnAgain]

I have been in a custody battle with my EX for over a year now.  It has been a total nightmare.  Unfortunately Her mother (the grandmother) has money and is giving my EX money to fight me.  Right now she has No access and no visitation in our 3rd temporary orders.  My ex has almost every BPD symptom and has had them for 15 years since she was a teenager.  She has never done the work to improve herself, nor followed through with any treatment.  She has 7 arrests, including a 3 month old DWI for prescription drug abuse along with previous arrests for Shoplifting with my 3 year old son.  The Lying is horrible, the behavior, and the neglect for anyone else she comes into contact with. I have not let my son see her or talk to her in over a year.  We've been back to court about 8 times, many for no reason because she hasnt done what the judge wanted her to do.  She finally completed her evaluations after many months.  btw she has 2 other children, one of no custody.  All different dads.

The last hearing the judge was done, she said no gardian ad-litem to them and no continuance.  Our final hearing was next.  The Judge said to try and have a mediation before the hearing.  I took that as the Judge wanted us to settle out of court, or at least try too.  Granted the Judge has turned her down every time for visitation.

My attorney said there may be a possibility she might get some kind of visitation in the final orders, along with court ordered rehab and therapy. So instead of going to a final hearing we postponed it for an agreement.  She gets 1 hour, once a week with a reunification visitation therapist.  And I get some re-enbursment for child care costs, and future costs for my sons expenses.  This is only a attached agreement, not final orders.

I am having second thoughts. I feel like giving her this 1 hour a week supervised is letting her get her foot in the door.  And she will want more in a few months if she does well.  There's a chance she wont do well though for many reasons.  I feel like I am giving in. My son is 5 now and doesn't need to be around her dysfunction, neglect, or behavior, etc... .

Should I go along with the agreement? Or put my foot down and go back to court and take my chances with the Judge?

Any advice would be helpfull.  I just feel that she shouldn't get visitation since she has shown no improvement or even tried to get the right help.  I just cant trust her, she has withheld him from me in the past during our first orders, and the police didnt remove him.  Are my current no access/visitation orders strong enough for the police to remove him if she took him from the visitation?

Thanks

[Panda39]

My attorney said there may be a possibility she might get some kind of visitation in the final orders, along with court ordered rehab and therapy. So instead of going to a final hearing we postponed it for an agreement.  She gets 1 hour, once a week with a reunification visitation therapist.  And I get some re-enbursment for child care costs, and future costs for my sons expenses.  This is only a attached agreement, not final orders.

I am having second thoughts. I feel like giving her this 1 hour a week supervised is letting her get her foot in the door.  And she will want more in a few months if she does well.  There's a chance she wont do well though for many reasons.  I feel like I am giving in. My son is 5 now and doesn't need to be around her dysfunction, neglect, or behavior, etc... .

Should I go along with the agreement? Or put my foot down and go back to court and take my chances with the Judge?

Any advice would be helpfull.  I just feel that she shouldn't get visitation since she has shown no improvement or even tried to get the right help.  I just cant trust her, she has withheld him from me in the past during our first orders, and the police didnt remove him.  Are my current no access/visitation orders strong enough for the police to remove him if she took him from the visitation?

Thanks

The court will be looking at what is best for your son.  Is "no contact" with his mother best for him?  Is his mom a hot mess, probably but a 5 year old only sees his mom.  She is dysfunctional but she is still his mother a 1 hour supervised visit a week is minimal but does still allow your son to see his mom and in a controlled environment.

Yes this could give her the opportunity to improve her behavior and go back to court to see your son more frequently but how likely is that?  Has she been able to improve her behavior so far?  Past behavior is a good indicator of future behavior.  Assuming she does go to therapy and shows improvement making her safer to be with your son then upping time with her would be less risky.

In terms of your fear of her violating the order and taking your son talk with your lawyer about what consequences can be written into the order should this occur and what the process would be to enforce it.  This way she knows what will happen should she violate the order and you will know how to proceed if she does.

I think you make this offer to your ex, because even though you are scared that she will take your son, it shows that you can put the interests of your son first (allowing him in a controlled environment to see his mom).  Even though she is a hot mess she's still his mom and he still loves her so if he can see her just a little while safely I think that is a good thing.

You can make this offer to your ex but it is up to her to accept it, she may not and you may end up in front of the judge anyway.  But if you do end up in front of the judge your offer shows that you can put the needs of your son before your own feelings.  That you recognize it is important that he see his mother but that you feel with her history of withholding him (and whatever other unsafe behaviors she has exhibited) in the past that supervised visitation would be the safest way for your son to see his mom.  You've offered the court a solution, you've showed that you can compromise, and that you understand that is important that your son see his mom.

Panda39

[nomotime]

I'm very sorry to hear about your situation.  That must be very tough.

I've not been through the court process myself as of yet, but I can imagine that for the sake of clear boundary reinforcement, if the last temporary order was No Access/No Visitation then it might be best to adhere to that and only make any adjustments in court.   Maybe the Judge wanted the discussion of arrangements to occur outside of court, before the making anything official at the next hearing?

But breaking the boundary of the court order, even if only temporary could set a precedent for the future.   Maybe it might be best to be considering if this option is something you want to take to the Judge, rather than making an agreement before the next hearing? 

Has the lack of visitation been made conditional on her attending therapy at any point?  Or has that yet to be officially raised? Again, if this is possible maybe again that clear boundary needs to be maintained in order for her to make the effort?

[livednlearned]

She has 7 arrests, including a 3 month old DWI for prescription drug abuse along with previous arrests for Shoplifting with my 3 year old son.

 

The last hearing the judge was done, she said no gardian ad-litem to them and no continuance.  Our final hearing was next.  The Judge said to try and have a mediation before the hearing.  I took that as the Judge wanted us to settle out of court, or at least try too.  Granted the Judge has turned her down every time for visitation.

I believe there is a theory in family law court that parents are more likely to follow the orders they propose, versus what the judge orders. So this might be the judge giving your ex a final chance to show she can't even follow the order she agreed to.

Your case sounds similar to mine in many ways (countless frivolous appearances in court, inability to comply with orders, minimal to no visitation).

You can future proof your order in two ways.

1. Make sure your lawyer adds consequences for non-compliance. Where I live, after the hearing, one of the attorneys offers to write up the order -- tell your lawyer you want it to be him/her. It will cost you a bit more, but it gives your L a chance to tweak the language and toss in consequences. When the order is presented before the judge to be signed in (can't recall what that hearing is usually called), the language is reviewed and for the most part it sounds super reasonable and both lawyers sign off and the judge finalizes it. In your case, you might want something in there about course of action if your ex withholds your son. Or, to be extra conservative, list the things that have to occur before supervised visitation can take place, which leads to #2.

2. Add as many tasks as possible (that are reasonable) and a timestamp to get them done, before visitation occurs. The timestamp is important. With my ex, we gave him a 30-day deadline to get a psych eval, start anger management, get into a substance abuse program. I also specified that the psych eval had to be done by an MD who was qualified to administer the MMPI-2, agreed to by me/my L. Visitation was contingent on getting the other things done on time. Once my ex failed to get those tasks done, it was much easier to get full custody, which is not easy to do in my state, even as the mom.

I wish it didn't sound so cynical to say this, but I don't believe my ex wanted to see our son. He just wanted to win.

So instead of focusing on what he needed to do to see S16 (12 at the time), he spent all his time email bombing me with insults. Shining light on his issues and feeling controlled by the order amplified all the issues that got him into that spot in the first place, and he has not seen S16 since.

Which is sad, no doubt about it.

And also preferable, under the circumstances.

[GaGrl]

Would the one hour with the reunification therapist be considered "supervised visitation"?  If so, make sure the order uses the phrase "supervised visitation" and is air-tight that the Ex cannot drive the child anywhere -- that should be justified by the DUI/prescription drugs.  You could also specify drug testing prior to supervised visitation beginning, so that your child sees his mother at her cleanest.

[ForeverDad]

I can't advise which way to go but I do agree that if the court previously saw a reason to halt or end visits then that speaks loudly.  However, courts do have mandates to involve both parents where possible.  Your task is to figure out whether and how that might be possible.

Be forewarned that courts are inclined to like deals where they don't have to make a ruling.  That's why settlements are what lawyers are most familiar with.  But pwBPD don't handle boundaries well at all, any relaxation of "what is" typically is seen as weakness and an invitation for more boundary pushing.  So, yes, if she is allowed limited contact then she could see that as a crack in the door.

I like the idea of her having to meet some criteria for her visitation.  Drug testing is appropriate based on her history.  It should be very structured once she qualifies, it must be professional supervision, not by one of her friends or even you, keep it professional.  She should pay for the visitation costs.

If you do this, you need to have the authority to suspend or cancel visits upon reasonable concerns that would be justifiable if reviewed by the court.  After all, she might be okay one visit but not the next.  That is a concept seldom addressed by the courts.  Often it will grant a pathway back to fewer restrictions but doesn't spell out what happens when there is a relapse to prior behaviors needing restrictions to be retightened.  That is, once the restrictions are relaxed it often requires a return to court to get permission to put the restrictions back on.  You don't what to be put in a position where you are allowed to relax restrictions but not reinstate them unless court approves it after more time and expense, almost like starting over.  Does that make sense?